The Daily Beast Podcast - Why Trump Insiders Fear He's Lost MAGA: Wolff

Episode Date: March 13, 2026

Michael Wolff and Joanna Coles unpack another dizzying week inside Donald Trump’s orbit, from the strange logic behind his Iran strike to the growing MAGA backlash that’s rattling the White House. As Trump pushes a controversial voting law he believes could secure victory in November, Wolff explains the “reality distortion” at the center of Trump’s decision-making—and why the former president still assumes he’ll get exactly what he wants. Meanwhile, tensions explode inside Trump’s own coalition over war, immigration crackdowns spark political panic among Republicans, and an unexpected primary battle becomes a test of Trump’s grip on the MAGA base. Plus, a rare Melania sighting, Wolff’s unfolding lawsuit drama, and the theory that Trump’s latest moves may be about distracting from the Epstein files. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The White House really feels it is at war with the MAGA voices. Partly it has to do with the Iranian war. The MAGA position is we are against forever wars. We're against foreign wars. America first. This is what you promised, wasn't it? Which is what he had promised. The pushback within the White House, I mean, it's really has to do fundamentally with the war.

the MAGA objection to the war. That's what everybody is grousing about within the White House. Where are these people? Why are these people leaving us? Why are they deserting us? What is this pushback? Michael. Joanna.

And when I say Michael, I mean Michael Wolfe, the author of four Trump books and two books on Rupert Murdoch. Michael, where are we going? And when I say Joanna, I mean, Joanna Coles. Who needs no introduction? Well, I might need an introduction today because it's raining outside. My hair's a disaster, but I am the chief content officer of The Daily Beast, and I think

this is our 84th episode of Inside Trump's Head. Who invented this title, Chief Content Officer? It's like a ridiculous title. What ever happened to editor-in-chief publisher? This is a digital world thing? chief content officer? Anyway, you don't have to answer this. These are just rhetorical questions. Yeah, but I think it's not a rhetorical question. Where are we going and what are we doing there? Just briefly for anybody new joining the podcast. We believe that this is a government of one,

and that one is Donald Trump, and nothing else matters, which is really extraordinary. Extraordinary in the history of the United States, extraordinary in the history of government, really. that everything is determined by the caprice and the whims and the sudden inspirations and often the passing inspirations of one man. Everything depends upon what has come into the head of Donald Trump at any particular moment in time, war, invasion of American cities. We can go down the list. But if you think that this is the product of a carefully thought-out policy, you would be wrong.

What it is, and everyone around Trump knows this, is the result of what's in Trump's head at that moment in time. Let's invade Minneapolis. What a good idea. Let's invade Iran. What a good idea. Let's invade Cuba next week. It's all, it all depends upon what passes through that head. Oye, oh, yoi, o'y.

With its strange straw-colored hair, the yellow is back, by the way. And also in our last podcast, you made a point which struck home with a lot of viewers and listeners. that he's really ad-libbing the war. And we can see him doing it in plain sight. And actually, there was an amazing moment where he said, and I'm trying to remember what the beast's headline for it was, because it was very funny, which is when he was choosing the title of the Operation in Iran,

Operation Epic Fury. He said that he was given a choice of titles. And normally these operations, have some kind of, you know, slightly more rousing theme to them like, you know, Operation Freedom or Operation Democracy or whatever. And of course, this is Operation Epic Fury. And he said, as they were briefing him and giving him the list of the names, he was falling asleep. This is something we know he does in cabinet meetings. He does it every time he has a briefing.

He's constantly falling asleep, which is something we've discussed, and you've pointed out, the White House gets very anxious. when they see him falling asleep and everyone's like, what should we do? And there's a wonderful picture that we had in the Daily Beast of him sitting between HECSeth and Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, just eyes closed, eyes completely closed, clearly having dosed off. But he was falling asleep at all the names they presented him with until he fell upon, or someone said to him, what about Operation Epic Fury? and his eyes flashed open and he was like, that's the one, that's the one.

No, and he's good at this. And when I, on one occasion, when I sat with him, he said, he said, you know why your book Fire and Fear, you know why that was a hit? He said, because I gave you that title. And my second book was called Seed. She said, I didn't, that's a bad title. That's why that book didn't do as well as the one, as the one. where I wrote the title for it.

Now, this is, let's understand the context is that he had obviously said this ridiculous statement about Fire and Fury as it related to North Korea, and I chose that title as a way to make fun of him. But that now became a title that he had given me and all of my success was due to him. Well, didn't he want to stop you and shout, hey, I'm the guy that made you rich? Yeah, he's explained that to other people he said as he went by, I made that guy rich, yes. Right. Okay. And that's what he clearly, clearly, he absolutely blew. So my book, Fire and Fury, which is in every way not complimentary to Donald Trump, he now claims this as his success.

And for those who haven't read the book, what also made it successful, not least the title that the president gave you fire and fury, but was the fact that you sat in the White House for the first year of Donald Trump's first presidency for seven months just jotting down what you were seeing and what you were hearing and they didn't know what you were doing that. And when you said, oh, I'm writing a book. They were like a book, a book, because they had no sort of concept of something that might come out in a year's time. And that was sort of at his invitation, but the invitation went kind of like this of waving, waving, okay. Right. Well, I remember talking to at the time. Which is how thought out things are in,

in that first administration, and they're not, they have not appreciably changed. And, and it is, you know, I mean, I think we can't stress enough that the war in Iran, there, there may never have been a war, which we have, anyone has entered into, with so little planning, so little strategy, so goals that are so unclear. Goals that are so unclear. And even when he's talking about him, he addressed the G7 this morning. We're recording this on a Thursday morning. People left world leaders from France, from Italy, from Germany, from the UK, left.

And they all had a different interpretation of what he was saying, because he doesn't really know what he's saying. No, I mean, he doesn't know what are we doing in Iran other than, I mean, we can go down the list of regime change, unconditional surrender, getting rid of the nuclear stockpile. Well, today his reasoning was that because America is the biggest producer of oil, this is actually good because oil prices are going up. Ergo, it's good for America that oil prices are going up because we're exported. Oh, that's a good one. Oh, geez. So there's sort of ex post factor explanation. But I just wanted to call out, we get, and I never feel we give listeners and viewers enough credit for the incredibly interesting article, engaged comments we get.

I wanted to read one out today from someone called Dawn Neig. I think it's Newberg-Steinson. But it says, according to NLP, neuro-linguistic programming, there are two types of people. One is through time as they can plan events and follow through. The other is an in-time person who deals with the present. Michael said Donald Trump ad-libbed the war, and that's pretty much the same. Donald Trump doesn't plan ahead and he thinks that whatever he comes up with on the spot is brilliant. Rationally, he's delirious.

I thought that was a very good description. Well, that great Trump expert, Jeffrey Epstein, used to say that Trump had no executive function. So that means the cognitive ability to sequence things, to organize things, to have an appreciation of cause and effect he was without. And I think that that is absolutely true and a kind of astounding historical moment to realize that the most powerful man in the world, who runs the most powerful country in the world, who effectively runs, is at the center of much that is happening in the world, has no relevant abilities to that position. Right. And curious yesterday, Pentagon Pete threw a wild vanity tantrum. That was our headline for it. And I love this story that Pete Hegseth, who's appointed himself, well, he was appointed a Secretary of Defense by Donald Trump, but has renamed the job, the Secretary of War. Yesterday banned certain photographers from the Pentagon because he didn't like the images of himself. that were coming out. So for those of you who might not have seen the images or who would like to see the images again, I want to assure you that we'll be running the images through this podcast so you get all of them. And should you need to take a copy of the story and share it with your

friends, go on to the Daily Beast website. And we have every single photograph of Pete Hagezeth that he deemed heinous. That's what he's thinking about. I have a little background on this. Also, to like to note that the word heinous has, has having a big spike. Everything is, everything is, is, is, is heinous. Well, it does feel a bit heinous at the moment. But the background to the photos is an enormous amount of consternation within the Trump orbit because of the photos that were taken of everyone in the White House after, when Susie Wiles gave a set of interviews, which then, became a long and extended article in Vanity Fair. And the photographer that Vanity Fair sent in made everybody look like a grotesque,

including close-ups in that way that you could see where all of the inject, all of the women had their injections. None of that was covered. All of that was exposed. And in fact, that particular photographer, his specialty, you know, whereas most photographers strive to make people look good. That photographer, his goal in METIA is to make people look bad. And within the White House, they were furious about this and furious with the communications

people who hadn't realized that that's what this photographer has done. So everybody is now on guard against photographers who might make people. in the Trump orbit look bad? Oh, that's so interesting. That is interesting. And, I mean, it's always been a trend, though, from Vanity Fair or New York Magazine, certainly when the two of us were working there,

it's not that the photographers are trying to make people look bad. It's that they're trying to cut through to get to the essence of the person. And there's always a lot of preening and pop-in-jay type behavior from people who want to look their best, which is a natural thing. I mean, I've worked, I've worked obviously at vanity fair too for a long time and and much, much time at vanity fair was spent making people look much better than

they actually looked. And that was always sort of part of the deal. We'll cooperate with you if you make us look really fantastic. Right. No, I've certainly said that to photographers myself. your job is to make me look thinner, blonder, younger. That's always my admonition. So that was a kind of a bait and switch. I have some sympathy for the White House in this regard. I have no sympathy for the fact they didn't do their homework. Very straightforward.

You look at the portfolio of the photographer. Well, they never do their homework. We can say that. So in fact, we're now in the middle of a war in which no one has done their homework. No one has done their homework. So what are you hearing from the people that you talk to about what's inside Trump's head on this wall? Yeah, totally. I think it's a really interesting moment and a kind of pivotal, or I think we say, tipping point moment,

that the White House really feels it is at war with the MAGA voices. And that may extend to their war with their whole base, partly it has to do with the Iranian war because obviously the mega position is is is like what the fuck you know this is this is the mega position is we are against forever wars we're against foreign wars America first this is what you promised wasn't it which is what he had promised you know the pushback within within the White House I mean it's it's really has has to do fundamentally with the war, the MAGA objection to the war. That's what everybody is grousing about within the White House. Where are these people? Why are these people leaving us? Why are they

deserting us? What is this pushback? What was interesting this week was the Donald Trump addressing the Republicans who are pulled together for their sort of annual offsite at Dural, the Trump Dural Hotel in Florida, Dorel. How do you pronounce it? Doral. Dural. Dural. Okay.

But they're all there and they're being told, let's drop the mass deportation message. That isn't playing well for us. They've got rid of Christie Nome, but they're now seeing the numbers in the polls are shockingly low, especially for Donald Trump. So they're being advised, stop talking about mass deportations, only talk about it in terms of criminals, that we want criminals. out. And then Donald Trump is saying he won't pass any other legislation until he gets the SAVE Act through, which is that people have to turn up with a state registered ID to vote. Again, honing in on the mechanics around the elections. And he's saying that he wants to reduce the ability of people to mail in ballots. It should only be for the military and

occasionally people who are too ill to get to the polls. Right. So we have two impediments as we go into this midterm year. And actually we are now in the midterm year. We are three months in. And the first is the immigration backlash, which is not only profound across almost all demographic groups of people saying, hey, wait a minute, even if we, if we are people who want, who support all of the laws related to immigrants and want them enforced, nobody wants to, wants to see it

done in the way we have been doing it, not to mention people getting, getting shot, not to mention masked men who with little training and experience enforcing. enforcing the laws that, that, actually, they seem entirely unclear on the laws that they are enforcing or allowed to force. Well, we've all seen the social media videos of the masked men dragging people out of cars, carrying them away. It's disgraceful. We saw Alex Preti shot in, you know, on a Saturday morning.

We saw Nicole Renee Good shot, you know, three times, four times in the face, in the head when she was doing nothing wrong. Okay, so this is impacting, as I say, all demographic groups, but most critically, it is, of course, impacting Hispanic groups. Right. Can I read the quote from Mike Johnson, who was down there, he said, and I can't do his voice annoyingly. We've got a little hiccup with some of the Hispanic and Latino voters for certain because some of the immigration enforcement was viewed to be overzeant. jealous. That's what he said on stage. And then he said, and you know, everybody can describe it differently. But here's the good news. We're in a course correction mode right now, he said. We're going to have a new secretary of Homeland Security. So they're driving the bus over Christy Nome and reversing back over her. Now, this is, this is going to be an, there's an interesting side light here too,

because it's the Stephen Miller's side light. So the person who remains most adamant about about immigration enforcement, immigration enforcement almost at any level. Any and all is Stephen Miller, who is up certainly among the most prominent and most powerful voices within the White House. So we have the beginnings of a major fight within the West Wing itself. Well, and it was Stephen Miller's idea to have, quote, and to say you need to get, you know, you need to deport X number of people, which is why, of course, they've been rounding people up, many of whom have been American citizens. No, and, and of this is from the Stephen Miller point, this is a point of of moral righteousness. There is no, there can be no compromise because it is a moral issue.

And the moral issue is, of course, a completely racist issue. But from in his, in his, in, his mind, as in the mind of, dare I say, 1930s Germany, there is no compromise to be made here. Okay, so one of the people that perhaps both represents MAGA and also is oddly independent is the representative from Kentucky, Thomas Massey, who we will remember, joined with Rokhanna to demand the release of the Epstein files, then persuaded three of the Republican women to come over, Nancy Mace, Lauren Bobat and Marjorie Taylor Green, who was then a representative, to force the release of the Epstein files. He has fallen foul, obviously, with Trump over that, and Trump is doing his best to primary him or support the guy who's

primering him. Yes. So this is a full. focal point of Trump's, of Trump's anger and revenge. He will, he has set out to defeat Massey and probably will. I don't know, Massey's pretty popular there. So I think this is going to be an interesting measure between Trump support and Maga support, which we'll see soon. I think the primary is in May and very well. I mean, I would say Massey is in, perhaps he'll prevail, but he's in the fight of his life. if you're a Republican and Donald Trump becomes your enemy. That's, I can't imagine that's a, that's a, a, a promising moment for your career. But Thomas Massey is older and you're always making the point that people hate Donald Trump.

So while they're afraid of him and Thomas Massey is clearly up for the fight, I'm sure he's back channeling with Kentucky Senator Mitch McConnell. They must spend a lot of time talking together about. Well, there's another person. Trump does not like, to say the least. Mitch McConnell hates Trump, right? There's no love to lots between the two of them. But here's a group of people who really don't hate Trump, who really love Trump,

and it's Republican primary voters. Who are the people who love Trump most Republican primary voters? Well, except that they feel he's compromised by the Epstein files and they're now confused about him being so slow to release the Epstein files. They like Thomas Matthew for driving that, right? This will be a measure of that. I'm not sure that that is actually true. Well, but they also don't want war and Thomas Massey, you know, has been very clear that he doesn't agree with the war in Iran. Well, I know this is the, you know, these are the MAGA voices, whether the Trump mega base, these people who vote in primaries, we don't know, we don't know for a fact that that this is, that this is true. And, you know, and we'll see. I mean, I think it's, I think it's going to be, I mean, it's a very, very interesting measure here.

Right. I mean, Trump said of Thomas. Massey, Thomas Massey, we gotta get rid of this guy. Loser, he's loser, this guy is bad, this guy is bad. So we know he doesn't like him. And Edgal Rayne, who is Trump's candidate in perhaps, I mean, pulling himself up to his full height, said that Massey stands with the ladies of the view, which I thought was a kind of, if that's the best you got, dude, I'm not feeling good. confident for your choices.

I disagree. I think for Trump primary voters are for primary voters in the Republican Party, that could be an evocative image. I think that, well, so we know that Massey spent $3.1 million in the campaign. And John Paulson and Paul Singer finance guys have raised $3 million against him. So, tight race, but I suspect the local people of Kentucky, like Thomas Bassian, like that he's independent. Anyway, we can watch it closely. Yeah, let's, I mean, I think it's an important race. And we'll begin to say lots about what's going to happen in November.

Okay. So Trump is clearly terrified of what's going to happen in November, right? You know, I'm trying to think terrified. Trump's terror is not like other people's terror. And that's partly this looking forward. He doesn't really see things. This is not, he's not really looking forward and saying, oh, my God, this could happen. Again, he lives in the moment.

So, but I think that it is obviously of concern. He knows that something has to happen. or he's going to lose. But I think at that same time, he certainly feels that something, many things could happen, including this, his ability to interfere in this election,

which is why he is, he is so insistent on passing this Save America Act, which would mean that everyone has to has to show a state approved. ID, which is not so easy. And it certainly means that many, many voters will be turned away and those are likely non-Trump voters who will be turned away. Well, John Thune, who's the Senate majority leader, is basically saying they won't get the votes. This is not going to get past.

And he's absorbing a lot of flack for saying that there's no point in holding a vote. because he's not going to get the vote yeah well i let's turn that around and say and say i mean because because um they're they're they're not going to do this they're not going to pass this the save america act um but trump doesn't appear to understand that and again that's a product of living in the moment and it's a product of of i'll get it because i want it um so at what point does he understand that that's not going to happen now Now, layer that on top of the fact that he does so often get what he wants. And so it's a reality distortion.

From Trump's point of view, I will get what I want. And the proof of the pudding is that I so often get what I want. So therefore, in this instance, why wouldn't I get what I want? And if I get what I want, then I can perhaps prevail in November. So therefore, all go to the point that he's not terrified because he's Donald Trump who believes that he can make this happen, he can fix this, he can get what he wants. Well, Melania has resurfaced, which I thought would be a good time to catch up with your lawsuit. Melania, the movie, is on Amazon Prime.

And of course, she's going to be showing up at the White House today because it's women's history. Women's history, man. I have history. I tell you no. You know history, Melania me, no history. Anyway, she's turning up to support Women's History Month at the White House. So rare sighting of her, pray what is happening with your lawsuit with her? Well, any day now we will get a decision from a federal judge on their motion to either dismiss the lawsuit and to dismiss it because they seem to be saying now that their threat, their $1 billion threat against me was, I suppose, less than serious.

Therefore, we would be suing them in error because it's obviously based on the, on the, on the, on the, on anti-SLAPP laws in New York that prohibit or using the law to intends. intimidate someone's perfectly legal speech. But they're saying, they appear to be saying, well, since they weren't really serious, it wasn't really a threat. So it was a rhetorical threat. I suppose that's what they're saying. Now, I mean, we've turned around and said,

no, actually you've done exactly what the law required you to do in order to file this kind of suit. You've taken the necessary step, You've you the clock began to run as soon as you were as soon as you were doing this and if we did not Withdraw the the statements you've demanded that we withdraw then then we were liable to this one billion dollar threat so so any at any rate they've asked to dismiss we've countered and countered on on that and then if there is not a dismissal that then they've asked for this to be moved to Florida, which is more advantageous to them,

and where they maintain Melania Trump is a citizen, a citizen of the state of Florida. We have countered by saying, actually, every circumstance would indicate that she is not, that she is a citizen of New York State. And we have then further asked for the court to authorize discovery in which we then might get, access to all of the documentary record including her prenuptial agreement which

would which would show that in fact she is firmly wedded if not to Donald Trump to the state of New York so we're waiting for a decision on that any day now wow that would be completely riveting to read Melania Trump's pre-nup with Donald Trump what I wouldn't do to read that out loud in Melania's voice. How interesting. And so is the assumption, because we've talked about this before, that one of the complexities of the case is actually the difficulty of serving the First Lady. Yeah. And that is also, this should be dismissed because the First Lady has not been served, even though you can't actually

serve the First Lady because they would shoot you if you got that close to her. And in fact, we have already gone into court and asked the court to offer us an alternative method of service giving the circumstance. But they seem to have ignored that and are just taking the literal view that because she actually has not been served, because she can't be served, therefore she cannot be sued. So who's taking that point of view? Melania's lawyers are taking that point of view. Because I was going to say there is a mechanism where if you can't find someone to serve them

or they are avoiding being served, you can serve the court instead, right? Well, the court has to agree to that. That you've made all reasonable efforts to serve them. Yes. And we have asked the court to say, hey, tell us what to do here. By the time you're back in New York next Tuesday, hopefully we'll be in the studio together, you might actually have a decision. Is that possible or you're expecting in the next couple of questions? Well, you have no way of knowing. And in fact, the somewhat a variable here is that this is

a Trump appointed judge in the Southern District, which I have no reason to believe that this judge is biased, but given that you're a Trump appointed judge, you're probably not in a hurry to make this decision. Right. Right. But those judges, sometimes they can be more independent than anyone expects, right? So I thought Trump's language, just going back to the war, you know, obviously he's still trying to figure out reasons for why we went in. But his language of saying, you know, it was a little excursion. I mean, what is he talking about? I mean, he's obviously got the wrong word, incursion. It's not like we're having a little excursion. That's something you do on a school trip when you go to a museum. Or any, yes, on any trip, a little excursion to Iran.

You're having an excursion in London. Yes. He is sending American planes for an incursion, not a little excursion. Well, you know, I mean, it's also, remember Donald Trump must most are a good part of what comes out of Donald Trump's mouth is literally meaningless. Right. The words are wrong. Not only the words are wrong, he has actually no particular thought he is trying to express except to fill the silence and answer the question that he doesn't have the answer to. Because there is no question, what are you doing in Iran?

I don't know. Oh, my God. So when's it all going to end, Michael? Well, we've already got victory. He said we've got victory within the first hour. You know, that's another point. It could end immediately. I mean, he could as capriciously as he went to war, he could end the war.

And I think that there's a lot of people now trying to say, what happens if that, because that is probably the case. So then what happens if that's the case? And the likelihood is that that will happen. He will announce victory. We will, he will bring all of the American forces home. And Iran will be left with an enormous amount of damage. But beyond that, nothing clearly having changed.

Of the leadership of the mullahs still functionally in place. the nuclear capabilities still ready to be reassembled over some period of time. Protesters still up against a regime that is perfectly willing to shoot them. Yes, basically a degraded ability to be aggressive in the short term, but these guys have shown in remarkable patience. in rebuilding. It gets tear torn down. They rebuild it. So is it possible that we could have this same war again before Donald Trump exits the presidency? Sure. Well, confusingly, Motshabar Khomeini, the son of the Ayatollah, who was killed on the first day of the

bombing strikes, as was, as were his wife, his mother and his mother. And he was, his son has issued a statement, although it appears that he's in a coma. So I'm not sure how that works, but he's issued a statement saying that, you know, they will do everything they can to fight back. And he's called on Iranians to unify in the face of the threat from the West. Now we know this, just let me, because I have not seen this, this is, this report. report comes from where where do we know that in the New York Post actually which that's our that's our that's our source well New York Post is concerning it's concerning I mean it may well be true but it is not necessarily true because of the

New York that the New York Post says it is just saying just let me know so Michael can we just raise this wag the dog theme again because Zateo has just come out with the poll saying that 52% of Americans believe that the reason Trump went into Iran and that he's been so unable to explain it is because of the Epstein files and he's trying to ignore the fallout and distract from the fallout of the three million Epstein files we've had released so far? Well, I mean, I think that that is a fair supposition. The polling question I'd ask is, is that of all Americans or likely voters? I mean, those are, those are, it's a sort of pivotal distinction as we look to the midterms.

But other than that, in general, yeah, I mean, I think, I think that's a, that's, that's, that is a fair view of Donald Trump's behavior and of what's going on in, in a war, which no one has any idea why we're fighting. So if you have no idea why we're fighting and what the goal is, but you know that the guy who is, who has ordered this war to be fought, desperately wants you not to notice that he's all over the Epstein files, then seems like a fair conclusion. So it's a great question. And in fact, I'm just checking now, it was likely voters. Well, then all of these things, I mean, and I think we should continue to follow this and follow the details of all of the polling because this is going what is going to bring us to the midterms.

Well, and there was a, there was a, well, it popped up as a news alert followed quickly by another news alert saying that James Clyburn, who you will remember is from South Carolina and who really made Joe Biden in 20. he was going to make an announcement. So he's 85, James Clyburn. I assumed the announcement that was that he was stepping down. In fact, the announcement was to say he's running again for another term in the House of Representatives. So he will be 87, 88 by the time he finishes his next term. And not the first congressman to have come close to peaking over 90. Just remarkable.

The Democrats in particular will not let go. Though I think the oldest person is Senator Chuck Grassley, who's 90. Who's a Republican, of course. Who's a Republican, yeah. But it's just astonishing. It's astonishing how they will not hand over power. Yeah, I guess it's, I guess once you've got it. All right.

So, a final concluding Limerick, and this is from edits. Our narcissist in chief, now he's bombing Iran. Why, you may ask, well, just because he can. Oh, how much can we bear? It's even worse than healthcare. There's not even the concept of a plan. I thought that was good. Great.

You got another? I have. We've got one from Garfried, actually. Trump threatened Iran with fire and fury reprised, then claimed total victory, himself unsurprised, no strategy found, just rhetoric profound, and Hegzeth explaining a war undisguised. Great. Love it. Okay, I keep them coming, people.

Michael will be back in the studio. I hope next Tuesday, it's much harder talking to when you're in London. I don't know why. Is there any fallout yet from the Peter Mandelson and Epstein relationship, which saw Mandelson fired as ambassador? Well, I think Starmor is, this isn't good for Keir Starmor. But the whole of, I mean, I've actually spent a little time trying to get my head around UK politics, which seem most now marked by the fact that they're,

are going to be so many more competitive parties. So it's now a five-party state or a six-part. It's, it is, so we're in one of those, one of those moments in which nobody knows what's going to happen because of the variables have, have, have so dramatically increased. And I mean, I think that that's probably somewhat true in the U.S. also, that, um, that the component parts between far left, far right, middle, middle, middle, middle, middle far right, middle far left are now competing in a way,

in a much more, in a much clearer way than than has been true in the past. So is the MAGA far right now competing with the MAGA middle, I think that's probably that's probably true. But in the end, they've only got two options, Democrat or Republican in the States, whereas the Green Party and Reform Party

have grown massively in the UK. The thing I found most infuriating looking through the Epstein files in through the lens of Mandelson being fired, which they released in the UK yesterday, released on Wednesday, was that Dame, Karen Pierce, who was the very popular and capable ambassador in Washington, warned Kier Stama

and said the Epstein Files is a big political hot potato in the US. It's going to become more of a story. She knew that Peter Mandelson's friendship with Jeffrey Epstein was much bigger and much more recent than he'd said. And Kirstama, for whatever reason, whatever pressure he was under, chose to ignore it. And there's another question I'm hearing coming out of the UK, which is that Peter Mandelson has hired the law firm Mishkonderea, which is one of the biggest, most prestigious law firms in the UK, frequently gives advice to the royal family. And people are wondering,

how is he going to pay Mishkonderea's bill? Who's going to lend him the money to do that? And as we saw, he demanded half a million pounds for leave. the job, leaving the ambassadorship from which he was fired, and eventually the government settled on 75,000 pounds, which is still a lot. Wasn't he, correct me if I'm wrong about this, but didn't he have a consulting business which he sold for a considerable amount of money? I'm not sure, but Peter Mandelson has a history of leaning on people to support him financially. Well, I think that describes pretty much all politicians. Fair. Totally fair. Michael, hurry back. Hurry back. I will say the hotel room behind you looks luxurious. Not bad.

It's a fancy piece of furniture over your right shoulder, sort of very mid-centch. I think they would like to think of it as art deco. Art deco, okay. Well, from here it looks mid-cent, but maybe we'll be. when you're in the room, as they say. All right, well, hopefully you'll be back in the studio. Safe trip back. At least you're not flying back through Dubai. I'm not. All right, we've got a special edition of Inside Trump's Head on Saturday, which I'm very excited about because it really focuses on Susie Wilde. We're doing a deep dive into Susie Wilde,

which is, as we know, Trump's chief of staff, and she wields her power in a different way than previous chiefs of staff. So very intriguing. And don't forget to look for our substacks at beast. pub forward slash howl for Michaels and beast.compub forward slash scream for Joanna's. Leave us a comment. I love hearing from people.

I wrote one last week about mistakes we've made and people have sent all sorts of mistakes they've made and some of the notes are detailed and some of them are very moving. If you have been, thank you for watching. Don't forget to leave us a comment. And don't forget, as our first lady would say, be beast.

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