The Daily Beast Podcast - Why Trump’s Aides Are Finally Turning Against Him

Episode Date: September 20, 2026

Michael Wolff and Joanna Coles dig into what may be the most revealing signs yet of a White House struggling to manage Donald Trump, as his own advisers begin publicly pushing back on his dismissal of AI concerns and his refusal to confront Republican vulnerability ahead of the midterms. They examine Trump’s increasingly personal battle with the Kennedy Center, including his reported plans to demolish it, before turning to his fixation on 1950s battleships, the Supreme Court, and the idea that everyone in government ultimately works for him. They also discuss the Epstein files, soaring gas prices, the fallout from the Iran war, Trump’s claims about Greenland, and the looming constitutional questions surrounding the next Congress. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Advisors say that they are really worried about the midterms and that they have tried to express this to the President of the United States, that he should be worried about the midterms. But he is in every public declaration saying he is not worried about the midterms. What advisors are saying is he has departed reality. The advisors within the White House, the West Wing itself, are taking issue with the president and with this president. We're in new territory.

The signal that is being sent here is a signal nearly of rebellion. Michael. Joanna, in Los Angeles, we're both going to Los Angeles. We are both going to Los Angeles. Technically, I'm actually in Montecito, a little further north, where I came to see Chelsea Handler last night, which was really fun. And backstage, I saw Maria Schroen. Triver, obviously related to the Kennedy family, and we're going to be talking about the Kennedy Center later on.

But we are going to be here in LA. On October the 20th, we're going to be live. There is going to be no holds barred. Michael will tell you exactly what he really thinks, not that he doesn't do that every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. I don't know. I find you stifle me in this thing. Well, I'm still going to be there. I'm still going to be there. You edit me.

You know, no one really has any idea what I really say. But in Los Angeles, you will hear it. Yeah, you will hear it. At the telegram center, uncensored, Michael Wolf. Unsensored. Well, and I'll be there to provoking you to be uncensored. So it's, if you would like to get tickets, and I very much hope you will, beast. pub slash ITH live.

That's beast. dot pub slash ITH live. Come and join us at the Terrogram Ballroom. And I believe there are special tickets where you can come and meet and greet us, which should be really fun. And if beast dot slash whatever is, if you don't remember that,

as I do not now remember it, just go to Ticket Masters. Ticketmaster. I think it's singular ticket master. Anyway, you can find tickets for us. Beast. Pub slash ITH live or Ticketmaster. Anyway, Michael, it's very good to see you. Let us just remind people who've possibly just joined for the first or second time.

Who have no idea who we are. Who have no idea who we are, because we've stopped introducing ourselves, which is terrible. I'm Joanna Coles of The Daily Beast. You are Michael Wolfe of four Trump books, many, many other books, two books that include a lot on Rupert Murdoch. But you are the man for the moment because your book, Fire and Fury, the first book of the Trump administration, the first Trump administration, really gave us the first insight into the chaos and how this man tries to run a government. And you've been on him ever since. An extremely long moment. An extremely long moment.

It's going on and on. 10 years. 10 years, I've been doing this. 10 years the country and the world has been doing this. And perhaps we're at the beginning of the end, although I've said that quite a number of times before. I think we've said that before. And do you want to explain briefly the reason why we called this podcast inside Trump's head? because it is a singular reason why we do this, because we both felt that people weren't spending

enough time on his character and character is destiny. And also government in the Trump world, the government writ large doesn't really matter. The executive branch writ large doesn't really matter. The entire ecosystem of how decisions are made, policies arrived at. agendas forge doesn't really matter. It's all about one man, what one man wants, and one man who is uninformed, an uninformed man, and what his mercurial personality produces today, which is very likely to be different, what it will produce tomorrow. So again, a government of one.

And I would say a proudly uninformed man who, as you say, basically puts up a wall to stop receiving any information. So he could have the smartest people in the room around him, which he doesn't, but he could do. And in his first administration, people tried to do that. But as it turns out, he's resistant to any kind of information. As I've said before, and I've often quoted Steve Bannon on this subject in which he says that Trump is an information phob. He just, he doesn't like it, can't process it, is resentful of it. So he just shuts it out.

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And he once ran into someone who told him that steam catapults were better for aircraft carriers. And so amazingly, he's decreed that aircraft carriers must now have steam catapults instead of electromagnetic catapults. Again, based on something somebody said to him once when he was in the event. I mean, this is how defense policy is being made. It's just remarkable. Yes. And then there's a movie.

We'll go into this, a movie, a movie from 1954 that has stuck in his head. And the United States Navy is now being refashioned around that 1954 movie. We're going to be talking about many things this morning, not least Trump trying to refashion military equipment after people he's met apart years ago and old movies he watched. We're going to be talking about the Kennedy Center. People are protesting outside. And we'll come back to something you prophesized on Thursday, which appears alarmingly to have come true. We're going to be talking about the Supreme Court. So we have a lot to get in.

And of course, we'll do a drive-by of gas prices. But should we start with the Kennedy Center? There are people protesting. Let's not. I think there's two, an interesting thing happened today. stories in the New York Times and the Washington Post, two separate stories. And these are what we call in the journalism business, advisors say stories. So when there are stories about advisors in the White House saying something. So it's not the president saying something. It's advisors saying

something. And in this case, advisors saying something that is quite contrary to what the president is saying, that's a signal moment. That means something. So in the New York Times this morning, there was a story about advisors. We're taking issue. So Donald Trump has called the fears about AI a hoax. And so advisors say in the New York Times, well, you know, they don't really think it's a that they are concerned about this, that the fact that leaders of the, of the AI industry are warning of the end of humanity, they take seriously and they are advocating that they're, that advocating restraints advocating that there should be people paying attention to the White House. And that very specifically, it is not a whole.

hoax. So this is a big departure. And essentially the stories are saying, this story says, says that Trump feels is saying it's a hoax because he's worried about the effect on the stock market. So he's not, he's not worried about the end of the world? No, clearly he's not worried. That's the hoax. Yes. So, but when the advisors say this, that's, I mean, this is a big departure. Now, the other story in the Washington Post is that advisors say that they are really worried about the midterms and that they have tried to express this to the President of the United States, that he should be worried about the midterms. But he is, in every public declaration, saying he is not worried about about, about.

about the midterm. So again, advisors say, and what advisors are saying on a larger basis is he has departed reality. He can't see. You know, clearly, clearly if the leaders of the AI industry are saying that there is something, something to worry about, you should, at the very least, not be calling it a hoax. In the case of the coming midterms, to deny that the Republicans are in serious trouble is, again, a departure from reality. So what the advisors, that is to say, the White House, and I detect Susie Wiles's hand in this. So that's a big thing that the chief of staff, the advisors within the White House, the West Wing itself, are taking issue with the president and with this president. Now, remember, these people know that he is Donald Trump,

that he is mercurial, that he is, that he doesn't listen to people. They know this. They're used to this. So what they are saying is that this goes beyond that. We're in new territory. So are these conversations that, if it is Susie Wiles, are these conversations that are happening in the White House with Donald Trump? Or are the advisors, whoever they are, leaking these stories to make Trump pay attention? Yes, exactly. I mean, these are the stories. I mean, they are the advisors say that they are advising Trump about this. But if that were the case, they would not be leaking it.

I mean, if this was advice in everyday advice sitting down with him and going over policy and discussing policy options. This is leaking, going out. We are advising him of this and we're telling you because he's not listening to us. So we are trying to triangulate with him on these two very, very substantial issues. Trump appears to be anxious about AI because so much of the stock market right now is resting on a very few companies. It's open AI, it's anthropic. I guess part of it is Elon Musk's company, obviously Gemini at Alphabet. Do we think that's what his sort of, his motive is here to underplay what people are telling him, including. the founders of these companies. Yeah, well, I think, I mean, that's what this leak is.

And I think that that's probably legitimate. I mean, I think it's probably a nice way of saying that he's concerned with his own issues, which is that if the stock market plunges before the election, that's a problem. Plus, he and his family are heavily invested in this. So I think what the, there is this. major issue, possibly arguably the major issue of our time, which he is dismissing out of hand for his own self-interest. That's what the White House, the West Wing staff, is saying on that issue. And there seems to be a continuing exodus from the White House as we hurtle

towards the midterm. Well, I'm not sure that that's entirely true. I would say that there might be a little exodus, a little, few things going on. But I think largely, largely the White House is stable, kind of remarkably so. After the midterms, I don't know what what it will be. But this, again, what the signal that is being sent here is a signal nearly of rebellion. And I don't know how. I can't really quite begin to see how Trump is going to react to this. I mean, he usually reacts very badly to leaks. But the nature of this leak and the nature of the way it's expressed, both of them, the

AI story and the midterm story, is advisors, not a advisor, not this. So they're speaking to, in both instances, more than one person is being a, And when there's more than one person, it is, you get to the, that it is multiple people. It's a, and that means that means you're going to know who this is and that means it is likely to come from the top from, from Susie Wilde. Yes, this is a problem. What he's saying about AI is a problem. What can we do here?

Well, let's, let's retail this kind of story. that we are trying to talk to him. And that's we're protecting ourselves because we don't want to be seen like people saying this is hoax if the world is going to be destroyed. And also in terms of the midterm elections, we need to force his hand to begin to support Republicans in danger to help minimize the damage that we know is going to happen.

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Discover Coffee Plus on Nispresso.com. Okay. So to what extent too, I mean, one of Trump's arguments about not regulating AI or staying away from it and just letting the companies do their thing is to do with he thinks or he's certainly been saying that if America doesn't stay ahead of AI, the Chinese will beat us at it and Chinese AI will get embedded in. Yeah. And everybody knows. Everybody knows that's a complete bullse. It's a bullshit argument. But that's not what I was going to go on and say, which was that we have Xi Jinping coming to D.C. this week. He's going to be visiting Donald Trump. So to what extent are these stories from advisors? I mean, they seem incredibly unhelpful to Donald Trump four days before the Chinese leader is due to arrive.

Well, I think that they're probably trying to force him, force him. his hand, and there's some discussion about this, to come up with some joint statement or agreement with the Chinese on the regulation of AI, or at least the discussion about AI, a joint study group, Chinese American, something like that. They're trying to get something, trying to get him to move off this hoax thing, A, because it is certainly not helpful politically, B, not helpful in a policy-wise and beginning to think intelligently about this, and also C, makes him sound like a fucking moron. You know, it may be many things, but a hoax, just to dismiss it as a hoax,

And that's also, of course, falling back on that word that he uses when he just doesn't want to hear about something. Well, he's called climate change a hoax. He's saying that this is another hoax. The Democrats are creating a hoax around AI. When it's very clearly the founders of the company have all amazingly because they don't like each other. They come out in unison saying we need some way of understanding what this singularity can do. Right. and the Russia hoax, you know, again, it is, everybody is looking to preserve their own position here.

I mean, their own credibility. So, and this is a serious, to understand the serious thing, you have to understand how compromise their credibility is. They're taking a stand finally here in this instance. And similarly, on the midterm story, he just won't pay attention. He just won't focus on the fact that the Republican Party is in serious, serious, serious jeopardy here. And he is, they're trying, the staff is trying to get him to release money. The staff is trying to get him to get out there. You know, he really hates to travel.

He hates to travel and he hates to go out and pump for someone else. But they are trying to get him to do this. And the way they are trying to do this is to go to the press. This is just a marked moment. I thought that the biggest sentiment was that although Trump is telling everybody, pretend I'm on the ballot, actually it's unhelpful to have him on the ballot. So where is it useful to have him out there talking about things? Or do you mean talking about AI? No, no. It's useful to have him go to areas where there are races that are very tight and which he can help push them over.

And, you know, part of the thing here, part of the equation is that his voters, MAGA voters, are depressed, are, you know, may not come out to vote. vote. So this is going to be that the nature of this election is really about turnout. So, and he's the one person who can motivate turnout for his base for his base, but he may put off independence. There already, the calculation is that that is already fixed. Those people already hate him are already motivated to come out. That's fixed. What's not fixed is the, is his base and motivating them to come out. So this is going to be a wipeout election. But, you know, what, there's wipeouts and then there's wipeouts somewhat less.

And obviously the people in the White House would like that somewhat less, to minimize the damage as much as possible. And they need him. They need him at least not to deny what's going on. And so they're leaking this. It is, again, look at it as a mini rebellion. When you say it's going to be a wipeout election, there was so much overconfidence in 2016 by the Hillary supporters. There was a lot of overconfidence in the Biden-Karmulah camp in 2024.

The polls we know are notoriously reliable. We do know that Donald Trump is very unpopular in the polls. But are we sure there isn't just an overconfidence? No, I mean, this is going to be a wipeout election. Yeah. I mean, who knows? Yes, we could be all diluted here. But right now, everything that everybody is, everybody is looking at the same information.

And the information now indicates a hemorrhage and a continuing hemorrhage for the Republicans. Can that be reversed in October surprise? You know, again, that people don't like to admit that they're Trump voters and they come out at the end. Of course, he's not running. So, and the polls have tended to be on these midterm elections somewhat more reliable than they have been on presidential elections. So I don't know. But clearly the people in the White House are looking at the same information that, that everybody is looking at now.

And it certainly doesn't look good. The only person is not looking at this information is Donald Trump. Well, and your book, Fire and Fury, and I'm just emphasizing the point here, Donald Trump thought he was going to lose in 2016, and there is something about him that can sometimes pull off a win, especially when Democrats are overconfident.

So he may be ignoring the information out there right now. I just would hate for Democrats to be overconfident in this moment. No, and that is the thing that he always knows better. But right now his staff thinks not only does he not know better, but he is, as I say, departed reality. So again, a big moment, just to register this, the staff, the White House staff, Trump's staff, is in, if not in full rebellion, certainly, certainly restive. Okay, so what do we make of Donald Trump's move yesterday to ban MS now, CNN and Politico from White House briefings? We still don't have a new White House press secretary announced it either.

We should make a little of it. It's just Donald Trump, Parhamphine again. It's, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's always found this successful, always plays to the base. Um, will these people, will they be banned? No, they won't be banned. Um, they'll go to, way, even if they have to go to court and they probably won't have to do that. This is just Donald Trump doing Donald Trump. Doesn't, doesn't have meaning. So it's all performative. It's like the press is against me. It's all fake news. I'm going to ban them from coming. Totally. Totally. Completely. He loves this. This is like, this is just playbook, fallback on this. Also, it seems that he really enjoys his set piece scenes with Caitlin Collins, where he goes after her. And then she reports it on the 9 o'clock news.

And then the other CNN anchors all talk about, you know, him attacking them. Right. Absolutely. So this is completely meaningless. As so much as Donald Trump does, it's just, you know, just run the tape, playbook. Same thing. Do it again. Okay. All right. So we're not going to worry about them. Can we talk about the Kennedy Center now? Because that doesn't seem to be a good playbook. Because I think that is part and parcel with what his staff is saying in these other leaks, which is he's departed reality. So let me just, the Kennedy Center. So we were talking about this for our Thursday's podcast. And, you know, I mean, just the ridiculous. of the whole thing, the petulance, the crybaby nature. You know, if you won't put my name on this, and then I'm not going to give you the money to cover the deficit that I've created because I made

you put my name on this and then prompting a flight of performers and audience. So again, let's just remind people too that the Kennedy Center is a memorial to John F. Kennedy, who was assassinated. And I know it sounds a really obvious thing to say, but the idea of Donald Trump insisting on chipping his name into that marble for a man who was assassinated, it's sort of extra peculiar. I understand his need to put his name everywhere, but on that particular memorial, it's especially egregious. Well, it is not only is it egregious, but it's counterproductive. to what advantage does he get out of this? Certainly doesn't, I mean, no one is saying this is a good idea, nobody.

You know, I mean, the whole debacle of the Kennedy Center from the beginning, from his efforts to take it over, causing enormous disarray chaos, even the person he appointed to lead the Kennedy Center, left the Kennedy Center because saying this is going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to. go down with this ship. That was Rick Grinnell, right? Exactly. So it is why. What does Donald Trump get out of this? So when we were talking for Thursday's podcast, we were expressing incredulity. And then I said, just to kind of emphasize the preposterousness of all this and the Trump hyperbole of all this, I said, well, his next move is probably just to tear it. it down. I mean, he tore down the east wing in the dead of night. So why not this? Tear down the Kennedy Center so there will be no Kennedy Center and then you can erect in its place the Trump center. Now, I said this. Again, this is hyperbole. Would this really happen? Well, one could,

yes, I guess in the in the most sci-fi Trump world, you could imagine this happening as, And probably one should imagine these things in the Trump world. But did I really think that this was going to happen? No. The next day, suddenly it is revealed that he has plans in front of him to demolish the Kennedy Center. So, and this is now, I mean, the courts have had to step in and say, you can't just demolish the Kennedy Center. Will that stop him? Well, it's never stopped him before.

But that is, so we are at that point in this further example of Trump preposterousness in hyperbole. But even let's step beyond that and say what he just doubles down on his own disadvantage. Were he to do this? I mean, we're already in the Kennedy Center. This is overwhelmingly unpopular. Put his name on the Kennedy Center, overwhelmingly unpopular. Now he's threatening to destroy the Kennedy Center. We are less than seven weeks, six weeks, from the midterm elections.

And he is doing something that is a political, that that that will clearly, that might clearly add the political catastrophe in front of him. Why is he doing this? Why would anyone doing this? And I'm going to submit that there is only one answer, which is. is that he has departed reality, that he is, you know, we see this, we see this in this political context. We let him be seen in a political context. His agenda, his, this is outside of that. This is just self-destructive. This is a man who cannot control his needs. Even if you tell him, this will, this, this is going to hurt you. It doesn't matter.

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Like he was jealous of the 9-11 Memorial because it sucks attention away from him. And, you know, goodness knows, he fell asleep in it as he so frequently does. But is there something particularly triggering about John F. Kennedy? Does he feel that he's jealous of John F. Kennedy's reputation? What is it about the Kennedy Center that is not – does it represent the sort of elite that he's always felt have dismissed him? I think probably a bit of that, but also his – to be linked to the Kennedy's is very important to him. You know, there was a period during the campaign when he was very serious. about trying to get RFK Jr. to be his vice president. And then he went around. This was a period of

three or four weeks of him going around to everybody in saying, how does that sound? Trump Kennedy. Don't you like the sound of that? Isn't that an incredible sound? He's obsessed with talking about Melania in the same breath as Jackie Kennedy. So, yeah, I think that there is, something there. And then I think, yeah, sure that the, the elites, well, I mean, I have trouble with this because the Kennedy Center is not exactly a place of a, it's a pretty popular, you know, it's a, it's a venue for a pretty popular middlebrow entertainment. You know, this is not an avant-garde place. So I don't know. And I think it's just. No, but to Donald Trump, it might represent elitism. I mean, it has the national orchestra there. It has opera there. When he came in,

he made a huge point of saying, we want things that people are going to want to come and see. And he was obsessed by having Le Mise, the Miserables, the musical. So I can see that he might feel somewhat intimidated by the more elite nature of the Kennedy Center, though I take a point. It's not an avigua. But also that thing that Roger Ailes said and continued to say about Donald Trump, that he was a man trapped in in 1965. That's where his peak memories came from. And of course, that would be peak Kennedy in a sense. Yeah, no, the Kennedy thing very important to Trump. Very, you know, very, you know, he spends a lot of time talking about Kennedy, the women that Kennedy had in the White House and talking about that.

of course, in a very positive way. And that he got away with that and wasn't that incredible. So, yeah, there is that kind of thing. But again, even beyond that, he is willing to focus on that, obsess about that to his own very clear disadvantage. So why? Just because, as I said, I mean, it's departed reality. It is, it is, it's a madman stuff. It certainly feels like it's madman stuff. Was Kennedy someone who haunted him during the first administration? Or do we think that he's become more obsessed with Kennedy because he had his near miss a butler, Pennsylvania?

No, I think it's always been. I mean, he's always been seen, I mean, not least of all because of the Kennedy women. Right. I mean, that's always been a focus, one of his focus. Kennedy, you know, Kennedy, the Rat Pack Connections, Sinatra, and this is his idea of glamour. I was just going to say it feels sort of glamorous when he and Jeffrey Epstein, were sort of out on the hunt as two men patrolling Atlantic City. It feels like that was the thing they were trying to recreate this sense of men in suits,

kind of with power and women trotting after them as if they were gambling, pied pipers. Right. But I think that, and I think that this is the root, there's, the root of that is here. But now we're at the point of, of that it being on that. And it is just him being told he can't have what he wants. Therefore, he wants it more. So why aren't the advisors leaking that they are advising him against any kind of, you know, demolition of the Kennedy Center?

I think that's probably too hot to handle. I mean, remember, you know, the advisors don't leak this on a regular basis. That's why I've singled out those things. That's an issue, you know, it is so unusual. for them to do this. But, but, and I think the Kennedy Center is, is, you know, I think, I think they understand that is one of those things that you do not touch. You just let him, because he's crazy, he's mad.

You just got to let him, let him have that. Well, we're recording this on Saturday morning, and there were protesters outside the Kennedy Center. obviously saying save the Kennedy Center yesterday. I'm sure they'll be there again today. And one of the Kennedy relatives, the daughter of Rory Kennedy, posted that she had been down there and behind the fencing which they erected on Thursday, which suddenly went up and it's making it hard to see what's going on.

She could actually see a forklift truck going back and forth against. what appeared to be pillars. So we should, you know, continue to watch this space. But the idea that he would dismantle, would demolish the Kennedy Center. As you say, it's as if he's lost his mind. Indeed. So the other thing that he's been interfering with, and again, it's this sense that he always knows better. He can come in and run the Kennedy Center, but of course he can't and it's teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, is this idea that he somehow knows. how to build battleships, and he wants battleships back. Battleships are things that we gave up a long time ago in favor of aircraft carriers,

where planes can go off, zoom around. Now, of course, modern warfare is moving towards drones, but Trump wants a series of Trump battleships. Trump class. Trump class. These are Trump class. Of course, he's put in his name. which are things that, you know, senior advisors in the Navy have been saying,

this is going to take us back to the 1950s. And actually, you don't want enormous battleships because they just become targets themselves. You want lots of smaller, nimble, you know, little ships. And it would be one thing to argue this position on some basis. I mean, a lot of people, there's always an argument within military. circles about what works and what doesn't work. And I guess you could maybe come up with an argument for why for battleships. Although I don't know what it is.

But that's not his argument. His argument is that he likes the movie Victory at Sea, 1954 movie. And he's inspired by it, has always been inspired by it. And now he- Not inspired enough ever to serve his country, of course. No, but he has said, if I had gone into the military, I would have liked to go to the Navy because of victory at sea. I mean, this is somehow embedded in his mind, victory at sea.

And people joke about this. The staff jokes about this, victory at sea. So it's a grail for him, and he wants to imitate the movie Victory at Sea. Now, that should also be concerning. Billions and billions of dollars to recreate something that worked 70 years ago when modern warfare is about drones, it's about having smaller ships that are able to fire drones or intercept drones, not enormous great battleships, which have a massive X on them saying, attack me, attack me, here I am. So again, government.

of one, a man inspired by movies from the 1950s, from, you know, obsessed by a president who, you know, who was assassinated and was probably the defining moment of his growing up. And who he's jealous of. And who had unlimited women. And who had unlimited women. Let's let's go. Let's hone in on what really is the inspiration here. New from Nespresso. Blend wellness into your coffee routine.

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Discover coffee plus on espresso.com. The other thing is everything is, personal for him. He can't, he can't, he doesn't have an objective view of everything. He doesn't have an analytic view. The stuff about, about the Supreme Court. I mean, he's now mad at the Supreme Court because they're, because they're, because they're, because they're, because they're, because they're making decisions about mail in voting, which means it's going to make it harder for him to sow chaos in the run up to the midterms. Yeah. No, they've, and so this is a, a decision that went against him, he has now made that, personalized that, gone after my name,

judges that he actually appointed. They've disappointed me. They've, you know, a whole series of, of personal, personal failure, their personal failures when it comes to him, which is interesting. This is literally how he looks at this, you know, during the, after when the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court ruled against him during the, after he lost the election in 2020, there was a series of rulings against him. And then after, after January 6th. And, and he was, this was very much focused on his people and his position, was that they owed him. How could they do this to me? I appointed them. Why aren't they loyal to me? They are disloyal.

So there was no understanding, and I think that that's the important point here, it's almost an intellectual point, that they don't work for him. They don't owe him. I mean, even just, I mean, structurally, they are a separate branch of government. But their job has nothing to do with what he personally wants.

So it is on his part a complete inability to understand that. Well, he's also taking the rules of business because there are, I think there is often an unspoken code that if you hire people, you're hiring them to do your bidding largely in business. Not that he's a great example of a successful businessman. But he's obviously applying those rules much in the same way that Jared Kushner and Steve Wyckoff apply proudly the rules of business to diplomacy, which don't always work, which in fact are counter-effective. Yeah, no, I think that that's absolutely true. But it also then seems to be a failure to understand or acknowledge that there is a difference

here, an obvious difference. Government is not business. that even constitutionally this is codified, they don't work for him. No, no. And he said, oh, they're an embarrassment to their families about the three judges that he'd appointed. Do you think that John Roberts wakes up every morning just bracing for impact from Trump? I mean, you know, I think of all of them, be careful what you wish for, that they all probably, these are all people that from the age of five wanted to be Supreme Court justices. They finally get there, but it turns out that it's, you know, they're going to have to spend a lot of their time under, well, and it shouldn't be under, but it feels like under pressure, well, clearly under pressure, actually, from Donald Trump. I mean, I can't imagine being John Roberts. He seems constantly to be equivocating.

Yes, and I think that they do break up. I think they are afraid of him. I think they're afraid in a larger sense. And I think they see it in. in a context that they regard as historic and important, that it's between them and and Trump bringing down the building. So they can't push him too far because how can predict what a crazy man will do. So they are a kind of a bulwark there. I mean, this whole thing about the shadow docket that Basically, they don't decide on the issues that he brings before the court, but they don't decide yes and they don't decide no. So they let these things run far longer than they should. They just don't decide because making a decision against Donald Trump may have serious repercussions, both for them personally and for the country at large.

We don't know what he will do. And also there's clearly moments and issues that he's very exercised about. And then there are other issues which he's obsessed about in the moment, but then let's go and has lost interest. Because we've talked before about his lack of attention span. And then something which has gotten definitely worse as he's gotten older. And of course he's in his ninth decade. He's 80 celebrated his 80th birthday this summer. his obsessions get wilder and more manic and more profound.

Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting that he has, I mean, he has found for himself, and he has gone through a lot of people to get to this, an attorney general, Todd Blanche, who will absolutely do what he wants to do. And, you know, there's been a lot of commentary that the idea you know, since Watergate, there has been, the convention has been to be

that the Attorney General is arm's length from the White House because the Attorney General is not the President's lawyer and is not on the President's side. The Attorney General represents that represents justice and the country

and in fact may have to, may be at odds with the President of the United States. But that has gone entirely by the boards. And Todd Blanche is, Todd Blanche, his personal lawyer, now the Attorney General, remains his personal lawyer. Well, as he let slip in his confirmation hearings, right, when I can't remember if it was John Kennedy or some senator asked him if he was a friend of Mr. Trump and he said, I am the president's lawyer and then he quickly corrected that and sort of said, I'm actually the acting attorney general, but he himself said it and it still wasn't enough to get him to get him

unconfirmed. Although as, was it, John Cornyn said, or perhaps it was Bill Cassidy, it could be worse. It could be worse. The reason I'm voting for him is there might be someone worse. I can't imagine who that would be. I mean, I literally think that the worst case in the Attorney General's job is Todd Blanche, not least of all, because he's a pretty good lawyer. I mean, so he's gotten, you know, I mean, Trump has gotten put dofuses into that position before. Pam Bondi was, you know, was an extraordinary mediocrity.

she was in that role and, well, she was not, from Donald Trump's point of view, she was not successful in that role because she was not particularly, um, um, forceful, forceful enough in her defense of him. She quavered. She got nervous. She clutched. Well, and she was at the center of the Epstein files, right, saying, oh, I've got them on my desk. Then they released them to, bunch of influences and the stuff that they released was all things that have been in the public eye anyway. And then she was stuck. Elon Musk came out and said Donald Trump's in the Epstein files, at which point it felt clear that they had to be released. And they've only released half of them. And we've stopped talking about Jeffrey Epstein and we've stopped talking about the Epstein files.

Why isn't that subject coming up before the midterms? It feels like it's disappeared. It feels like Trump has won the Epstein files and that our eye has just gone off the ball. Well, I guess that's the victory. He may have lost the war in Iran, but he won the war against the Epstein files. Yes. I'm amazed that the Democrats don't bring it up more. I don't have an answer to that. other than there's a lot of stuff.

You know, war, if you think about this, war is more important than the issue of Jeffrey Epstein. Well, and affordability, and affordability which impacts people's lives. And, you know, driving through Beverly Hills yesterday, I noticed diesel was at, I think, $8.50. Yeah, no. Well, that's the, I mean, all we see.

and we see gas prices heading up and up and up. So, you know, Brent, crude, what did it hit? $107 a gallon or a barrel, which is, you know, a hundred and it was that. The benchmark. Yeah, that was if it broke 100, things were in trouble. So it's at 107 now or it has climbed as high as 107. And it's a serious thing. Again, it's partly of what the White House advisors are seeing.

This is a very, very, very alarming landscape for the Republican Party. And of course, the advisors actually fill up their own cars with gas, whereas cabinet ministers have their government cars. And so it's one of those points that the public deals with all the time. But actually, once you're in government at that level, you don't ever deal with again. Yeah, no. And I'm not sure, you know, I mean, he keeps saying, well, it's a small price to pay for the war in Iran, which is kind of crazy because we've lost the war in Iran. And nobody wanted the war in Iran. Congress didn't action the war on Iran. He made the decision himself. Right. So we have a – we're –

We're paying a price at the gas pump for a war that somehow in his mind is a success, I think it may be, but in no one else's mind is a success. So he is saying we're paying for success when everybody else perceives us very clearly as we are paying for failure, his failure. His failure. Now here's another war we've lost. Here's another war we've lost. Greenland. Greenland. There it is.

Yes. So do tell. Talk about that. Well, there's apparently an agreement on Greenland. And it is, you know, I mean, Trump has folded. So this is an agreement between America and Greenland. Yeah, well, between Denmark, Greenland and the U.S. Yes. And it's what's called a security deal. But we have always had a security arrangement with Greenland.

We have always had the right to expand the bases that the military bases that we had there. So Trump has effectively gained nothing. So his insistence that either Greenland would become part of the United States or we would wholly occupy it. And whatever threats he issued for the better part of 18 months have come to nothing. Not that I'm disappointed that they have come to nothing. But again, it is. Well, it's performative. It's this sort of nonsense where he creates non-issues and then pretends to solve the issue.

He's arsonist and he's fireman. Yeah, I don't know how he gets to claim this issue is solved, however, but I guess he will, yes, but he is. He is already saying, yes, we now have, we are the protectors of Greenland. Oye. Oye, indeed. And oie to the fact that the fourth person this week has died of measles. A fourth person has died of measles this week. RFK, Jr., still junior, at coming on now 73.

Coming on. You've been marking his birthday. I mean, again, an incomprehensible strategy to freak parents out with no scientific basis whatsoever and undo one of the great miracles of modern medicine, the vaccine that's eradicated terrible diseases and are now edging their way back into American life. We would like a vaccine to eradicate RFK Jr. and Donald Trump. Sadly, it's too late for that. Todd Blanche, Pete Hanksiff.

Well, actually, the vaccine is the vote, right? If you're actually going to stay on that, the vaccine is the vote and people have to use their vote. Yeah. And again, you know, I mean, I think we should would return to this. There's been some interesting stories this week about what might happen if the Republicans lose and after that what might happen on January 3rd when a new Congress, the 120th Congress, is due to be sworn in.

Do you mean in terms of confusion over what happened? whether or not people refuse to hand over power? What are you saying? Yes. I mean, basically, you know, there is on January 3rd, the clerk of the Congress has to, it takes the official act of certifying the elected people who have been elected from the states. The states certify that these people have been elected, which is another. area that can get complicated. But then each of these people have to be certified by the

clerk of the House of Representatives who is appointed by Mike Johnson. And the clerk now is, I understand, you know, a perfectly reasonable, respectable and trusted and decent, a person who can be relied upon to do the right thing. But also Mike Johnson can fire that person at any time, put in whoever he wants, who then has to respond to, who then might, well, not do the right thing. So anyway, this is a subject we should obviously come back to because it's a major, it is a major constitutional concern, a major It's a major security concern to

a major roadblock in the process here. But it sounds as if Saturday is starting in earnest at your house. I can hear the voices of children running up and down the stairs, probably excited to be done with school for the week and want to run out to the pool.

How long do you keep your pool open for? As long as possible until we're freezing. But they are excited today because they are going to Hank's Pumpkin Town. Oh, they're going to Hank's Pumpkin Town. How fun.

Yes, the symbols of those big fat orange symbols of fall. Well, I'm sure you're using as much electricity to keep your pool open as a data center, Michael. This is your defense of data centers.

We can get into this in further episodes, but I want to go and enjoy my one day here in Montecito. people could see behind me. It's the Pacific Ocean. You've seen the morning rise, I think, behind me. And I'm planning to go out and enjoy nature. I will say there's no data center near Montecito. And no Megan and Harry. No Megan and Harry, who amazingly took their children

out of school after two days because they discovered the traffic created a security risk for them, how they couldn't have figured that out before. I do not know because the traffic in Oxford is notorious. It's only the second place outside of London to have a congestion charge. That's how bad the traffic is. But their security told them, nope, you've got to take your kids out of this school because the traffic is a security risk. So there you go. No more Megan and Harry. And that brings us to the end of another episode. Another episode of Inside Trump said. But please come and see us in Los Angeles.

Yes. Inside Trump's head, live at the telegram board. Where you can challenge Joanna Coles on AI and data center. And we can talk about the history of the Industrial Revolution and how Michael would like everybody to still be out cutting grasses and wheat with a sithe because he didn't like the invention of the plow. He didn't like the invention of factories. He didn't like public health. If you think this is a strong argument, you can clap and the audience will be silent. That's the dumbest argument. You've got to do better than this. Oh, Michael. Prep.

Prep. I'm sure you can. I will see you on, when will I see you Tuesday? Tuesday, we'll be in the studio together. We'll be in the studio together on Tuesday. We will. And all of our people, Ryan, John, Heather. Neil, Rachel, the invisible Rachel, the ever-invisible Rachel.

All right, see you on Tuesday in the studio. So the good news is we have so many Bee Beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out, and we really appreciate your support. Don't you wish you could just hit skip on the worst parts of your life? You know, the same way you can skip an ad? I get it. I'm Siaya and I live in Ice Cove. I've made some questionable decisions that didn't end up the way I planned,

and today I'm still figuring it out. Somehow things usually get worse before they get better. Apparently, that's how I roll. So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride. Stream a new episode of North of North Tuesdays on CBC Gem. Where some see heroes and others see egos, Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. A fad to some,

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