The Daily Beast Podcast - Why Young Men Who Elected Trump Are Turning on Him

Episode Date: July 1, 2025

John Della Volpe joins Joanna Coles to unpack why young voters—especially anxious, economically insecure young men—helped put Trump in office. Drawing on Harvard polling and his SAM Project, Della Volpe explains how Trump’s internet swagger and outsider energy appealed to a generation feeling betrayed by institutions. But the mood is shifting. Young voters are turning on Trump, frustrated by chaos and instability. Della Volpe warns Democrats: stop lecturing, start listening. He points to Zohran Mamdani’s surprise win as proof that authenticity, optimism, and showing up matter more than ideology. To win Gen Z, Democrats need less tightly scripted cable TV appearances—and more courage. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Okay, so they were attracted to his celebrity, his confidence, his promises. So they've turned against Trump. They are turning against him. We are picking up the focus groups and the surveys the significant disapproval of the way that ISIS currently, you know, doing their job in terms of ripping people out of cars and homes, etc., providing additional instability there. And I think the same thing goes for the actions in the Middle East. I'm Joanna Coles. I'm the chief content officer of The Daily Beast, and you are hopefully listening to The Daily Beast podcast in The Bath, which is my favourite place to listen to podcasts. But if you're not, I hope you're ironing your clothes, cooking your supper, walking your dog, whatever. I hope we're making your chores a little bit more interesting. And today we have a guest who has talked to thousands of young men about why they voted for Donald Trump, but now appear to be falling out of love with him. It is, of course, the pollster, the man based at the Harvard Kennedy School of Politics, John Delovalpe, who literally scours the country for young people to unburden themselves about their political anxieties. All right. So, very excited to be joined by John Delavolpe. Thank you. This is your Virgin Outing up for their Daily Beast podcast.

I've been waiting and waiting, and here I am. So thanks so much for helping me, Joanna. Okay, well, we're absolutely thrilled to have you. And what I want to kick off with, especially as you are, you know, a world expert on young people and politics is what are they making of the Trump administration five months in? Well, let's kind of set the stage and take one small step back if that's okay. No. Oh, come on. I don't like to take steps backwards on this podcast. We want to lean forward.

Listen, let's lean forward. Let's lean forward, but let's appreciate the first. fact that in some ways, I believe younger people were responsible for putting Donald Trump in office to start with, specifically younger men. There was basically a 10 or 12 point decline among younger men, 18 to 29-year-olds, over four years in terms of their support for Biden-Harris compared to Trump. And with an election joint so close, specifically in those blue wall states, if one out of 100 people change their minds?

Campbell Harris is president today. So 1% of votes. It relied on 1% of votes. In Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan. And I think it was an ongoing strategy by Donald Trump for many years to expand its franchise targeting young men. So that's number one.

The importance of younger people, both the 24 but also 25 heading forward. Number one. Number two, listen, I've done a lot of polling at Harvard and my own company and in other places. And right now, more younger people are concerned that Donald Trump is doing more harm to them than good. Okay. That's essentially what the report card looks like, you know, five or six months into this. So he was able to expand the franchise several months ago for the election.

But in terms of the day-to-day governing, younger people are quickly, I think, asking important questions, like, I thought this was going to improve my economic standing. What about me? So that's kind of where younger people are today, I think. Well, I'm amazed that they wouldn't have looked at Donald Trump One and drawn some conclusions from that. What are they most concerned about? Well, I think to your point about drawing conclusions from Donald Trump One, it's an excellent point. But in many ways, we're talking about people who are 18 to 24 years old today. which means that their primary, I think, source of kind of political identity or values were essentially driven over the last four or five years.

Okay. So yes, Donald Trump was president during COVID, but it was the impact of COVID and then a challenging time exiting out of COVID at a time when prices were increasing on a significant level, specifically for the most. vulnerable people. So I think that's just the context in terms of younger people today. People in their later 20s and early 30s who do have that memory of Trump 1 were more likely support Democrats, right? So what they're concerned about is, is honestly the same thing, all of us that they're concerned about. It is asking for demanding some stability in their lives, specifically related to economics and finances. It's really all about that. But I do think that younger people, they just, you know, they have a different lens.

So many younger people I meet in my focus groups is virtually not a focus group I can't conduct or assemble, Joanna, anywhere around the country where I don't feel, find people who were in the process of, had been, or currently homeless, or or incredibly anxious about next month's rent. So it's really cuts to like the core. of their basic identity in humanity. And that's the level, I think, of concern that most young people I talk about tell me about,

regardless of what economics drive to the red, they're all concerned about economic anxiety. So what was it about Donald Trump that managed to convince them that if they voted for him, they would feel financially, or they would be financially more successful and feel more stable

and shed this backpack of anxiety? they seem to be lugging around with them. I think that's exactly the perfect metaphor. They carry this significant weight on their backs. That what they were looking for, and again, he didn't win all young voters. He just did better enough to win the election, okay, just like he did in 2016, right? The magic number is for Democrats to win, they need to get to 60% of the youth vote. The data here says Kamala Harris got somewhere between, you know, early 50s and the high 50s.

So not quite there. But this is a generation who feels betrayed by institutions, okay? Don't all generations feel betrayed by institutions? I felt betrayed by institutions when I was in my early 20s. Isn't that just part of being young? I think certainly there's an element of it, Joanna, but I don't remember ever stressing out about the ability to have a home ever. You know, when I was young, my first job in politics was literally $100 a week in a place of stay.

So, yes, there certainly is an anti-authoritarian institutions, an anti-institutional aspect of it. But when I speak to younger people, they tell me their education, they don't feel prepared for life after high school, whether it's college, the workforce, or something else. They talk about the state of capitalism today, right, and how fewer and fewer and fewer. fewer people are able to achieve big things. Well, many people are struggling just to have against a basic stability in their lives. So those are some examples. And the other thing, I think it's a point to understand about this newer cohort of voters, Gen Z voters, is that they don't have a living memory, Joanna, of 9-11,

which means they don't also remember when America kind of came together and was united under one cause and we were connected. They don't have that memory as well. So this is a generation that's grown up. Again, almost a third of their waking lives was impacted by COVID. You can still see the significant detrimental effects around their social circles, the level of loneliness, the depression today. They look at the institutions.

They feel like they're hurting more than helping. And they were looking for Donald Trump as, someone who wasn't defending the institutions, but someone who could use his strength, okay, to advocate for people who were economically anxious. Now, what he said is obviously different, I think, than what he's doing, you know, but it was really about the strength of his persona, I think, different than some specific policies. That was what was attractive, specifically around younger men. Okay, so they were attracted to his celebrity, his confidence, his promises, and to your point, this might have been the first election for some of them, although a lot of them

voted for Joe Biden in 2020, right, coming out of COVID. So they've turned against Trump. They are turning against him. Now, it's one thing to measure public opinion in at this time when there's not a clear opponent and there's not an ongoing campaign, but they're clearly overwhelmingly dissatisfied, right? His approval ratings among younger people are in the 30s. And is that the lowest of all the groups? I think it is, yes. I think it is the age group, 18 to 29-year-olds, and most polling, it would be the lowest among all the groups for sure. Okay, so they're feeling anxious. They've got financial insecurity. Do they care about Iran? Do they care about the border? What are the issues for them that they're most disappointed on?

because goodness knows Donald Trump has done what Steve Bannon advised in which is just to flood the zone. So he's flooded the zone with everything. Are there specific issues that they are most concerned about? Listen, we conduct focus groups almost every week with younger voters. I'd be lying to you if, you know, most of the comments are around domestic issues, okay? And not necessarily about immigration. But again, it's those economic concerns that extends to health care, mental health care, and those sorts of things. the degree to which immigration is a focus.

It is the instability. The younger people in the Harvard survey could see, believed that there's more stability at the border. And that is something that they kind of appreciate in Gabriel to the good grades on kind of year to year. However, we are picking up the focus groups and the surveys the significant disapproval of the way that ICE is currently, you know, doing their job in terms of ripping people out of cars and homes, etc., providing additional

instability there. And I think the same thing goes for the actions in the Middle East. We just conducted a poll over the last several days, and I think over 60% of young people believe that the actions in Iran, as of last Thursday, when we finished the survey, would make the situation more and less and not less chaotic and unstable. Plurality indicated that it's making them kind of more anxious, and they're just kind of concerned about that future. So listen, Donald Trump campaigned to younger people to break up the system, but to bring some order rather quickly.

And I think younger people are seeing there's anything but order right now in the U.S. and around the world. Were these people who grew up on Donald Trump on television? as the big boss in The Apprentice? I think that is the cohort from 2020 and 2006. You know, the younger people are much more impacted, I think, from the last four years of the Biden-Harris administration, increasing prices won. And Donald Trump as the Internet celebrity influencer,

hanging out with Theo Vaughn, the Nelke boys, Dana White, that kind of Trump. Okay, I don't think, I think it's a slightly different. The macho Trump. And I guess we're talking more specifically here than about young men, are we? Because I don't think young women were as impacted by Theo Vaughan and Charlie Kirk. No, certainly more young men than young women. But it is worth noting that Trump actually did a few points better with young women, even with Kamala Harris on top of the ticket,

than, you know, Joe Biden did better with that group. And again, I think from a lot of the younger women I talked to who were undecided in the final weeks of that campaign, it was about the same thing. It was about dealing with the economic anxiety that a lot of the young women on the fence who I think ultimately moved to Trump. It was a lot, but it was a significant number, you know, two or three percent in a close election is meaningful, told me that they, we're smart enough and intelligent enough to know that even if voting for Kamala Harris, it didn't necessarily mean that reproductive rights would be restored right away, right? That this was a vote in their short-term economic interest. So much more progress with younger men, but still, we can't deny the last election he did better with some younger women as well.

It's extraordinary because the single most important economic decision a woman will make is when she decides to have her first child. and anything that makes that more difficult to have any control over that particular decision, you know, it's just astonishing that young women would think that a man who put in three conservative justices to the Supreme Court would somehow be in their interests. But it sounds like young people are beginning to rethink that decision. They certainly are. They certainly are. And again, this is innovative. And, you know, I had just finished a few dozen, 60 hours of in-depth conversations with

younger people around the country over the last several months. And it doesn't necessarily mean that because they are souring on Donald Trump, which many are, it doesn't necessarily mean that Democrats can rest on their laurels. Right. Let's talk about that. Because who are you hearing from? in these focus groups that young people are warming to on the Democrat side. I think there's a long, long way to go and virtually, and most of them have extremely low name recognition. I think when we talk about potential 20, 28 presidential candidates, you know, you just hear the names that were actually in the news and the days before the focus group, right?

So you hear about obviously Bernie Sanders, although he's likely not a candidate, right? But you hear Pete Buttigieg, who with Sanders, has been spending time on podcasts, you hear Gavin Newsome, you hear Gretchen Whitmer in certain parts of the country, you hear West Moore, you know, you hear Corey Booker, they're the other part of my focus group, you know. What about AOC? I have not, honestly, I have not, or that has not organically come up in any of my recent conversations with younger men, right? You know, she, I don't think that she has the wide-ranging name recognition that older folks, you know, might expect based upon how much we talk about her, right? So certainly she has a very passionate following among younger progressive folks, but at this stage, it's a far away, you know, it's a long way away from money, kind of having a national persona that can connect. to the kinds of voters that we've been talking about. It's possible, but it's a long way.

So I just want to be doubly sure. So your focus groups are on all genders, I guess, I should say. They're not just on men, correct? Of course, yes. Some projects, you know, are more focused than others. I just finished a significant effort. I'm just looking at younger men. Right.

Which is this, right? The Sam report. There you go. The Sam project. Yes. Yes. Yes, I want to come on to the SAM project. All right.

So that's interesting that nobody is registering AOC. So tell us about the SAM project, which was specifically research into young men. Yes. And again, I'm not searching. Just to clarify about AOC, it's not like I was offering up different names and asking for responses. I'll just tell you what I got kind of incoming over the last several months. You didn't get any spontaneous people saying, oh, AOC, she's the younger version of Bernie. Anders, especially because they've been out on their oligarchy tool.

Yeah, not that, not that I recall. The Sand Project is, I think, the first and most significant efforts to research, deep research, and connect with the very cohort of voters that, as I said earlier, responsible for Donald Trump becoming president. Donald Trump spent over $20 million in the final weeks of that campaign to connect with with a younger man. As much as I study younger voters, I could see the, I could see the results. And I knew that it was coming. I felt like I still need to understand kind of where their values, what their values were, where they're coming from, their anxieties, their hopes.

Because I don't think that we can rebuild trust with them. I don't think they can build trust in our democracy without that kind of effort. Research is only one part of it. However, there's a significant effort aimed at understanding their media habits and to find opportunities to kind of connect with them over the next couple of years to see which tactics and strategies and messages will be meaningful heading into the midterm elections and the presidential in 28. John, just hold on for a second. We're going to break for some ads. And we're back with John Delavolpi. John, isn't it always the same thing? Isn't it always the economy, stupid?

It is largely driven by the economy, but if they were that easy, I think Democrats would be doing better with younger men. The economic anxiety we talked about cuts at their very identity, okay, about what it means to be a man today and a provider. And too many young men, if they can't feel good about themselves, if they can't provide for themselves, clearly don't feel comfortable providing for a potential family and home and children, okay? And that eats at them every day on one side. On the other side of the conversation around modern masculinity, they want to be vulnerable, but often feel mocked when they are too vulnerable. And that elicits and creates this sense of shame, which leads to, you know, anxiety, depression. And it will lead them into some fairly dark places on the Internet. So kind of what I believe is that Democrats ought to lecture less.

and listen more. And if you can kind of connect with with some of those nuances about being a man today, then you're more likely to, you know, be able to kind of persuade someone that your economic vision is stronger than your opponent's economic vision. That's kind of what I believe. Right. Poor man. Poor, poor poor man. I'll say in the focus group, say, you know what, we collectively had a pretty good run, right, for, you know, a few decades, a few centuries, don't you agree? Yeah, I do. And what they say is, okay, don't burden me with the success that my father,

grandfather, great, great, great, great grandfather had, okay? My grandfather, my father would painted houses, okay, with no formal education. And today with a college education, I may never be able to afford a house, okay? So don't burden me with what you and your generation, were able to accomplish. It's a different situation for men. That's what I hear back. That's what I hear back. Are young men in particular responding to any of the men around Trump? Do you have research on how they think about J.D. Vance? Dimly, dimly. You know, Donald, basically, when I look at the monthly tracking that I'm doing,

Elon Musk, Donald Trump, overall approval rings around, you know, kind of hovering the same, you know, plus or minus 50 points. Again, it's not like there's this extreme love of fair with Donald Trump. It's all relative. It's all relative, okay? But, but, you know, J.D. Vance, at this stage, with this younger cohort, not exactly lighting, not lighting and up and trailing, you know, 10, 15 points. perhaps some of that is because he's less known or more people in the neutral category. I don't know, but he's not letting up with the young man, that's for sure. And what about Eric Trump, who was saying recently that the density of the Trumps will go on?

Is that something that concerns young people or they don't care? The one person who does come up organically, and a lot of my focus groups, is Charlie Kirk. And the reason that that is happening is he is someone obviously committed to Trump who younger people see strength. And the fact that he shows up on college campuses around the country on a regular basis and basically takes questions from a sometimes quite hostile audience is something that young men don't necessarily always agree with, but they respect him standing up for what he believes in. And that is something that is something they wish that they saw Democrats doing more often. The reason that they tell me that more Democrats don't go on, don't choose to go on podcasts, an extended podcast is they say they're afraid to walk out, you know, to do something without a page of talking points. And when you do a, you know, hour or two or three hour podcast, talking points don't really help.

You need to be who you are, authentic and vulnerable. and they don't see Democrats as fulfilling those qualities and attributes right now. So they would rather Democrats behave more like Charlie Kirk? I don't think it's about his positions and certainly the things that he says and things about women or the horrific thing he said, you know, about Mom Dami over the past couple of days, okay? It's that he's not afraid to show up and to take questions, okay? And they see strength. He's not afraid to engage. He's not afraid to engage. Not afraid to engage with potential hostile audience.

So let's talk about Zoran Mamdani, who just crushed the Democratic primary for New York mayor, which wouldn't normally be of interest to people outside New York, except that he clearly represents a new kind of democratic politician. What do you make of him and what did you hear back from your audience about him? What are your observations about him? I spent a lot of time in New York City over the last six months, conducted thousands of interviews and a dozen or so focus groups. And his magic, I think, was less about the label, the Democrat Socialist label. It was much more about his intention to listen. That is what it was about. I strongly, strongly believe that.

He went from zero, you know, to potentially being the next mayor of New York City in just a handful of weeks or months. And as the campaign was closing, I was reminded of 2018. Okay. In 2018, we saw over the course of several months, we saw the Parkland movements, okay, you know, take over social media. But it wasn't just about social media. it also impacted polling, okay? And more importantly, Joanna, where the Parkland students showed up, people registered voting, registered to vote, okay?

And that was the precursor to AOC shocking the world, you know, in 2018 in her primary. We saw the same things happening, but the traditional models weren't able to pick that up. If you saw the analysis of the weekend, there was a significant spike in voter registration over the last. several days. So what Mondami was able to do was he was able to listen to the core economic concerns of New Yorkers. He was offer, he was able to offer relatively simple to understand, I'm not sure it's simple to finance, okay, but simple to understand policies that align in some cases with 70, 80 or 90 percent of New Yorkers, okay, in terms of specifically around the kind of additional mental health services, you know, to add to the police force and other

things. It wasn't about television or mailers. It was about social media, you know, and being kind of being present. And it was about suggesting that people not just vote for him, but organized, March, walk, go door to door, and register their friends. So that is, I think, kind of what was happening here. Listen, I'm not sure that that exports, okay, that those policies export to every congressional district that's at large, you know, that's, you know, at risk. but what should export is investing in listening over lecturing. I do think that when I watch those debates, I think there was a lot of lecturing,

certainly by Governor Cuomo and a few of the other candidates, frankly. The thing I was struck by too was just that Mamdani has a very light energy. He's sunny. He's a sort of smiling character. And he's having fun campaigning, whereas Andrew Cuomo looked like he had the weight of the world on. him he was angry about being forced to resign. And the energy between the two of them, you just felt Mamdani's energy was sunny and about the future, even though his policies may be impossible

and he's making promises he can't possibly keep. I mean, goodness knows how he's going to make the buses fast. I mean, said the buses will be free and fast. I mean, I've no idea how you make the buses faster, and I suspect he doesn't either. But it was a interesting how he showed up felt fresh. It felt fresh. It felt new. And I think what people like about Donald Trump, too, is he's not a traditional politician. He doesn't stick to talking points. He has his crazy weave. And people find it amusing. And both he and Mamdami have a sense of humor. I mean, whatever you think of Andrew Cuomo's record as governor, and we had him on the podcast, we did a long interview with him. He has zero sense of humor about himself, or at least

not one that he's prepared to let people share. And that also feels important for a candidate that you can have a laugh with these people. I mean, do you remember when people used to say, oh, the reason George Bush got in was because people wanted to have a beer with him? Certainly, it's been too long since we found that joyful warrior. And I think that is really kind of what his identity became. And clearly it was captivating. And to connect it to the first part of our conversation, the three age groups that voted in the highest numbers last week, in order, 18 to 24 year olds, 25 to 29 year olds, and 30 to 34 year olds, they outvoted everybody, every other age group older than that. And that is why the polling missed this, because it's

hard to model something that hadn't ever happened before one. And I think that is also why sometimes we don't fully kind of appreciate the power of Donald Trump in elections. When he's on the ballot, people who generally don't turn out, like the younger people in New York City, turn out for transformative figures who are a danger to the status quo. And I think that's what each of those two folks have in common. Well, there's no question that Zoran Mamdani has set off a wave of panic in both the Republicans, and the Democrats in New York. It'll be super interesting to see what happens.

I looked at the breakdown of how you described the various voting blocks. And I think I came out as angry striver when I was trying to match my own motivations against the various people. And according to you, I would be living in the outer boroughs. But I'm definitely, I'm living in Manhattan, but I'm still an angry strife. Not a pragmatic progressive in any way, Joanna. I should be a pragmatic progressive. But actually right now, I feel pretty angry about it. Do you know, someone sent me yesterday a video of a man on her street with a little outside cooking pot that looked from the third world,

and he was literally cooking fish in the middle of her street. I mean, it was just, and this was not a kind of barbecue in advance of July the 4th. It was literally someone cooking fish on the street because it looked like they were living on the street. It was very disturbing. it was an image straight out of a third world city. Third World City. Yeah, that doesn't bode well for any incumbent in New York right now. No, I'm going to be heading back to New York soon

to do a bunch of folk groups in Poland. You know, so yeah, we can keep on chatting about it as it gets closer to that. Come into the studio then and let's talk about it some more. So I found John's observation that young people really admire Charlie Kirk because he turns up on campuses and takes questions from hostile students. Kind of interesting because certainly when I was at college,

that's what we expected people to do. I don't know when it became so unusual that people would only speak to one side or another. Anyway, we'll be back on Thursday with a podcast with the great Michael Wolf, decoding the latest on whatever's going on inside Trump's head. Until then, don't forget to subscribe to the Daily Beast podcast. Please leave us a comment in our YouTube channel

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