The Daily Show: Ears Edition - A Conversation About Natural Black Hair, Identity, and Discrimination - Beyond the Scenes

Episode Date: April 6, 2022

From white women appropriating traditional Black hairstyles to society telling Black men to keep their hair short and neat, natural Black hair is a source of unsolicited opinion and controversy. Daily Show Correspondent Dulcé Sloan, Writer Josh Johnson and Deep Dive Producer Chelsea Williamson join Roy Wood Jr. to discuss the history and politics around how we treat Black hair in America using anecdotes from their own natural hair journeys. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What's up Daily Show Ears Edition listeners? It's Roywood Jr. coming to you again with a fresh podcast recommendation while the Daily Show is on break this week. What you're about to hear is a recent episode of Beyond the Scenes, which is the podcast where we take a closer look and unpack past daily show segments with the show's correspondence, writers and experts. This episode is a conversation about natural black hair, identity, and discrimination, featuring correspondent Dulce Sloan, writer Josh Johnson, and producer Chelsea Williamson.

If you like it, don't miss new episodes. They're out every Tuesday and be sure to tell a friend, available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, welcome to Beyond the Scenes. The Daily Show podcast that goes a little deeper into segments and topics that originally aired on the Daily Show. This is what this podcast is like, right? All right, you're pregnant, you having a baby, you go to have the baby, right? And the doctor be like, surprise, you got a baby. Then the doctor be like, it's another baby in there. It's a little smaller than than than than than than than than than than than than than than than than than than than than than than than the baby. the baby, right? And the doctor be like, surprise, you got a baby. Then the doctor

be like, it's another baby in there. It's a little smaller than the first baby, but we think you'll still love it the same. That's pretty much what this podcast is. Today we've got a topic that was featured in the Dulcaying segment of the Daily Show. This segment is hosted by a daily show correspondent Dulce Sloan. In this episode of Dulse-in, she discussed the history of natural black hair. That's right, y'all. They got beauty of topics too. Let's roll the clip. Black hair is like gluten. White people are scared of it, but for some reason they're obsessed with it. And for most of America's history, white people have done whatever they can to stop black folks from wearing our hair and its natural glory and our hair has a lot of natural glory. When we lived in the motherland hair was so important that you can tell a family's name and social status just by their hairstyle. Basically your hair was how you told all your

wisdom and this is still true today. Show me a black man's waves and I'll tell you if he drives a bins or runs after the bus. But when the slave masters came, they cut off our hair as a way to control us and erase who we were. And you know how some people cut off their hair after a bad breakup? It was like that. Except they didn't give us blonde highlights. So to walk me through this topic of natural black hair because I do not have a lot of hair so I can't be talking about no hair journey. I'm joined by Dulce Sloan and a couple of other producers and writers from the Daily Show.

First up, well first off Dulce, how are you doing today? I'm well friend. How is you? Hello, friend. Hello, friend. Also joining us, daily show, d'yp. D.C.. Chell-D. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. Chelsea Josh welcome to be on the scenes. How's it going? How you doing? Hey Roy. Well thank you Chelsea for sounding excited about talking about black

women's hair. This damn misogynist over there. No this is how I talk. I I didn't need to do anything. B. Are you excited? Yeah black women hair, you know. this is this is how I'm this is how I this is this is this is this is this is this is this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I th. th. This is how I th. This is how I th. This is how I th. This is how I th. This is how I th. This is how I th. This is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I this is how I th. This is how I talk. I didn't need to do anything. BAM. Are you excited? Yeah, black women, hair, you know. It's really why it's hard for me to find love because no one believes. That's a whole lie. You got a whole girlfriend. You don't have been one before years. Shut up. I said find.

But you found it. So shut up. Yeah, yeah, you found it so shut up yeah yeah but before that oh this sounds like a topic for a separate podcast Dulce before we get into this conversation about natural hair and everything that goes within that journey first and foremost just break down the term natural hair and what it means to be natural so the term natural hair literally just refers to hair as it, how it grows out of black people's heads.

So just our natural curly hair. So hair that's not been processed by chemicals. So it hasn't been relaxed, it hasn't been jerry curled, ain't nobody put no conk in it. But now, and I'm just asking as a layman and also a stupid man, does heat, when you apply heat to hair, is that still technically natural hair? That's just styled natural?

It's styled, because with hair that's been straightened, once you wash it, it, it's a culls back up again. Okay, got you. Now, first off, how long have y'all been natural? Let's just start there. Like, and was there anything in particular that made the two of you just go, you know what? Fuck it. I'm done, I would ask you, Josh, but I know sometimes you just put a pick in your hair and let the Afro grow. But Chelsea, we'll start with you. Walk us through the journey to you deciding to go natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural natural. the to to the to the to to the the to the to the the to the the to to to the the the the the to the the the the c. their the journey to you deciding to go natural. Yeah, so I had kind of reached a point in college where I was getting the relaxers and then I was getting my hair straightened every two weeks and in college you don't have a lot of money and that is expensive to do. And it just didn't make sense anymore either for me because like my hair is like fine so like the relaxers and my hair were not jiving very well so I went natural in like

2015 and I transitioned which is like basically I kept the same length of hair for like three-ish years and they were just cutting it the relaxed ends off like over a period about like three years like I said. And they'll say when when was your, is it called an awakening? What's it called when you decide? You know what? I want to do something different. It's just a decision because it's like, so there's two ways to do it. I, so I have been natural at multiple times, but, because like my mother did my hair because, you know, she went to beauty school and all of that. So my mother relaxed my hair. And th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, what, th, th, what, th, what, what, what, what, what, what, what the the th, what th, what the th, what their, what their, what's th, what's their th is thi, what's thi, what's thi, what's thi, what's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's their, what's their, what's their, what's their, what's their, what's their, what's their, what's their, what's their, what's their, what's their, what's their, what's th. What's thi, what's thi, what's thi, what's their their their thi, thi, their thi. What's their thea. What's their their their their their their their their their their their because you know, she went to beauty school and all of that. So my mother relaxed my hair, and my mother would do my hair.

So like in middle school, I just always had braids. So braids are considered like a natural hair style. But I remember asking my mother, I was like, mom, should I go natural? She's like, no, you always need a perm. But that was because she didn't think that I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I 2009, I was like, I'm good with this because like my mama told me like she stopped. Because in like 2006 she was like, I'm not going to be do your hair anymore. And I was like, no one agreed to that. And so I was having to now go to like the

Dominicans to go get my hair. And I was like I'm kind of over this because also it's like I like like big hair and so I was like well wait a minute I grow big hair so I was just tired to just seeing what I look like relax and I'm just like well let's see how this works so I grew my hair out for a year because my hair would grow so I would have to get a relax for like every eight weeks because I would truly have two different textures of hair and my th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the thi thi thi thi thi thi to to to to to to to to to thi thi thi to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th.. I tree. I tree. I tree. I tree. I tree. I tree. I would tree. tree. I would tree. And my tree. And my tree. And my tree. And my tree. And my tree. And my tree. And my tree. And my tree. And my tree. And my my their their their their their their their their their their th. And my my my their th. And my tr tr tr tr tr tr tr tr tr tr tr-s would tr-s. And my hair. And my hair. And my hair. And my hair. And my hair tr-s. And my hair would tr I went to my mom's house and I was like cut it and she like you're gonna cry because when she used to trim my ends as a kid I used to ball because my hair was getting shorter and she's like you're gonna cry and I was like chop it off. She cut it all off she's like how do you feel I was like yeah I felt done so much work trying to not have not have my hair on my head like it grows out of my head so I was excited to see what it looked like and what I look like as an adult and a styled

Afro because I'd never had a styled Afro before. You know what's interesting about that you know as it compares to black men and you can correct me from wrong ladies but it seems like because women have so many different alterations of yourself that making the decision to go, no, as my hair grows is what I will choose to style and deal with. Josh, were you making decisions? Because you have a fro now. At what point did racism and discrimination if at all play a role in deciding to finally wear a fro or keep you from having a fro for a while. I think that for the most part, what ended up happening is that my hair, I didn't fully

understand it. And so I used to, when I lived in Chicago, I would just cut my own hair. I would just shave my own hair. I tried to give myself a line up, but it didn't work and it looked like the bat symbol. It looked like the bat symbol every single time. And here's the thing, my natural hair looks like the bat symbol. So then people wouldn't even see the work that they actually thought that I made it the ears on purpose. And I did. It's just that that's how my hair grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows grows the hair grows the hair grows. the hair grows. I their. I their. I their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. I want their, I their, I their, I their, I their, I their, I their, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I, I's, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I's, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'm, I'm, I. And I did, it's just that that's how my hair grows. So then eventually I was like, hey, I want to see what my hair looks like, something similar

to what Dulcey's talking about where I was like, let me just grow it out in high school. And I went to this like, obviously you can't call it all white, because I was there, to be a white,think that there was something about my hair that was really proud of, especially in my junior senior year that I wore. And it was so different, because not only was I different, but now I had a hairstyle that was very different. And I, as opposed to thinking, it would make me insecure or feel weird about, I was actually

very proud of it. And it got to the point where other people thought it was as cool as I thought it was and I only ended up shaving it when I moved Chicago because I just couldn't take care of it or anything. And then when I grew it out again this time as an adult, I faced a different set of problems because at first, like when I do my hair when I shave it, there's the bat symbol, which is a problem. But then when I when I grow my hair out, there are a lot of other problems that begin. So you know, Dulce has been a true angel and friend and helped me out a lot in this journey.

Talk taught me things that I didn't know that probably I should have known. I probably looked like a person under try. them. them them. th. the th. the th. th. the th. the th. the th. I the thi thi thi. I the thi. I the the the thi. I the the that their their their their their thi. I'd their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their th. I. I. I. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'llthat probably I should have known. I probably looked like a person undercover try to get black hair secrets from a black woman because I would ask her things sometimes where she was always she was never this is the thing this is why Dolce is a true friend she never looked at me like so who would you like steal this hair from like like like like this clearly isn't your head you're growing it out of for you to be asking me. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to be to be to be to be to be to be asking me try all to be asking me try all try all try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to try to try try try try try like steal this hair from? Like this clearly isn't your head you're growing it out of for you to be asking me all these questions. So she was always very patient, helpful and everything and then I think it became as I started to do more comedy and and get a little bit

more known it became synonymous with me like just that that extra circle around the circle that is my head and that's like how people saw me from th that that that that that that th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th tho th tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho the that that the the the the tho- tho-like tho-like tho-like tho-like tho-like tho-up tho-up tho-up th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to to to to to the toee toee toe toe toe toe toe toe toe an toe an toe an theeeee an the an extra circle around the circle that is my head. And that's like how people saw me from far away. That's like how people came to know me. The fact that my hair has changed now, I'm really find out who I'm true friends are, because a lot of people don't recognize my face. And we're not talking about a beard situation where no one's seen my face before. My face looks like it looked when I had an Afro and now I just have these twist but and people are like, what is it? Yeah, but you got a mask on top of that too, you got a mask.

You look different, you only look the same in the middle. My bad, I walked it to the seller no mask. So. The comedy club where you work regularly. Yeah, there were some people who were like, uh, what is it???? the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th. th. they, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. And, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. People, th. People th. People th. th. th. th. People th. People th. th. People th. th. People are, th. People are, th. People are, th. People are, th. Yeah, there were some people who were like, hey, we, uh, what is it? Oh, A, I'm going to be to see your vaccination card. I was like, yeah, you've seen it. I'm a, I'm a comic. They're like, Josh. I'm like, yeah, this isn't a face off situation. Like, it's still my same head. And so that, that now, that now, that now, that now, that now, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, the, that, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, to. I. to. to. the. to. to. the. to. the. to. the. the, the, the,'ve I've moved into the twist scenario I've moved into the because Doolsay actually over the holiday did a whole little twist up

for me you know we we celebrated the first day of Kwanza by me twisting his hair after washing and deep conditioning because of day, because Christmas Day I detangled his hair. Then he came back over and I washed and deep conditioned and twisted his hair on the first day of Quartz. Why you don't never offer none of that shit for me? I know my hair short. You try and give me an edge up or something. I got clippers. I mean, I know to do no clippers. If it's a bunch of, and the things thi thi thi thi thi thi, I thi, I's thi, I's to to to to to to to to to to do c. to do c. to do c. to do c. to do c. to to do clippers, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, to to to toe, to to to to the to their their their their their their their their their their their the, the.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e. I toe. C. I to do no clippers if it's a bunch of and the things that made me the most mad about um twisting up Josh's hair is Josh has the

hair that I wish I had like this nigga has so much hair. I'm just sitting there doing his hair going I'll kill you. I was so jealous the entire time I was doing his hair like the twist that I had just in the back of his head was th. the th. th. th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. I th. I th. I thi. I thi. I thi. I that I thi. I that I'm that I'm that I'm that I'm that I'm that I'm thi. I'm that I'm that I'm that I'm that I'm that's that's that's that I'm that I'm that I'm that I'm that I'm that I'm that I'm that I'm that I'm that I'm that I'm that I'm th th thi. I'm thi. I'm thi. I the the the the the tf-I. I tf-I. I'm tf-I tf-I tf-I tf-I tf-I tipee' tipe' tipe' tipe' tipe' tipe of tipe of tipe of to to tipe' tipe' thi. thi. th-twists that I had just in the back of his head was the number of twists I get on my whole head. Whole ass hair, envy. So Chelsea, the deep dive department, I've tried to explain it to people that the job of deep dive as a research unit is to go and find the groceries. And then the writers and the correspondets decide what meal to assemble with the groceries and then the writers and the correspondence decide what meal to assemble with the groceries that you go and find. So when you made the decision to pitch this dull saying segment on natural hair, what were some

of the things that you discovered that you didn't know about the journey of black women in natural hair? What are some of the things you want to you discover? Uncovered? You know you all know what the hell I'm trying trying trying trying trying trying trying trying trying trying. I'm trying. I'm th th. know what the hell I'm trying to say, shit now. What were some of the things you uncovered in your research? And then after that, they'll say, I want to hear from you on some of the things you wish could have stayed in the piece. One of the things that I didn't know was how many, like, legal cases specifically existed, especially in like the 80s. Like, we did go over the Boderic 10 moment where she wore braids and all of a sudden it was like a craze all over the US and, you know, there was actually a specific legal case where a black woman then was fired by her employer for wearing braids.

And it was because the employer was like, this is trendy. You know, like this, you just saw 10 and that's why you did it. And she's like, no, this is a cultural hairstyle and she lost the case. So I feel like I didn't know like all the details of like the legality. Like, I wasn't as aware of that. So it was good to learn about that side of things. And then other than than than than than that, I, I, I than that, I than that, I that, I that, I that, I that, I that, I that, I that, I that, I that, I th than than, I than, I than, I thin, I thin, I thin, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi th other than that, I think just how far it goes into dress and workplace codes. Like, it's like, you know about it. And, you know, that is the reason that black women and black men did not grow out our hair for so many years,

was because of dress and workplace and societal codes, but just like hearing about, you know, the military especially banning black hair, specifically in natural ha hair styles and all of that. You know it, but it's like to actually like read it and see the cases themselves. It's always a little bit different. And so then based on all of that, they'll say, what were the parts that were important to you? What were the points that you were like, they got to know this? Because we always go into segments like, all right. We tho, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the case, the the case, the the case, the case, the the the the case, the case, the the the case. It, the the the the the case. It's, the the the the the the case. thi. It's, than. than. thanks. thanks. thanks. ta. ta.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a. tha. tha. tha. the tha. are the things that had to be in there for you? I think the great thing is, is like, the things that were included in the piece was everything

that I wanted to see, but I think something that would have been interesting to talk about, that we never really talk about is that when I started going natural, a lot of the slick comments that I got were from older black women about me going natural. Like I would just be out in some woman would just walk past me by all your hair is nappy. I'm like, bitch, do you know how long it took me to comb this out? I did a twist out? I I combed it out like it's like this hair is style, this hair is done. But we don't talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk we we we we'll we'll we'll talk we'll talk we'll we'll to to to to th th th th tho tho tho tho tho tho- th. th. th at th at th th at th th at th thi. th th thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th, th, th, th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi thi thi thi thi thi to thi thi thi to thi thi. thi. thi. thi. thied it out, like it's like this hair style, this hair is done. But we don't talk about how, because that hair, our natural hair was seen as unkept and nappy and unprofessional, that permeated through black culture to the point that, you know, we didn't wear our hair natural into like the 70s, and then after the 70s, everybody was relaxed again, and then we did it again in the 90s when the pro-black movement, and then

we relaxed again, and then now we've come back to, because after the 90s, we've kind of been able to like kind of maintain having natural hair, but like, in the 80s, you really Alfred Woodard maybe on a TV show. You was a sister soldier immediately if you had an, you was Angela Davis with him, off the top. Off the tip. Who called you Angela Davis, Josh? No, no one called me Angela Davis, okay? It wasn't a me thing. I was going to make a totally different point. But yeah, to what you're saying, I feel like, because our hair was seen as this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this the thiia. the the same, thi. the same, to be to be to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, toe. to be, to be, to be, to be, to bea. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. to bea, to be, to be, to be, toe. toe. toe. toe. toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. the. the. the theanananananananeananeananananane. the th. the toeananananananananananane. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. to what you're saying, I feel like because our hair was seeing as this unkempt

or it had to be conformed in a way to make it comfortable for other people, no matter how uncomfortable it was for us, that now you see crazy hairsty hairstyles that I actually think are super progressive. I feel like the weekend has done things for black hair that we're never going to have to go back. Don't you dare. The weekend has made, no, no, the weekend has made such an insane move that the over to window has shifted so much that now everything is dope. Mm-mm.

Them locks where everybody just looks like a Lego or Palm Trees. Right, the Palm Trees. Yeah. It looked like the Play-Doh. Like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, the, the, the, the,'re right the palm trees. Yeah. That's first thought it looked like the Play-Doh man or the, um, the Pilon seal like the Mexican, like the candy, the Spanish candy where the Tamarin comes out the, the Pelon-Sie. That's what that looks like. And I was like, oh, sir, you know what? I don't get it.

And also, there's a lot of things I just don't get. And I'm just like, this isn't for me. You know, this is for the children. I'm glad they're this free, but your dreads look nuts. And that's my only thing. where I'm just like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, the, the, the, the, the, th. It, th. It's, th. It's, thi, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th... There, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th....... There, there, there, there, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's a. There's a there's a thi. There's a there's a thi. there's a there's a thi. There's a th. There's just the person's interpretation. Because we've all seen certain like certain sets of locks and been like, that's just the wilderness. Or people's Afros where you're just like, ah, or sometimes, you know, when Josh would get the sleep box. Right?

Yeah, but here's the thing. Not only did I love by short, when it was short, I actually felt like it looked like a plan. Because when it was short, it was like so tight in my sleep. But, okay, so for anyone listening that doesn't know what a sleep box is, I, when I was initially growing my Afro out, so I have night tears, right? And so I would go to bed, and I would do a lot of rolling around because I'm in my dreams fighting for my life. And when I woke up, I would have essentially a nice,, a nice, a nice, a nice, a nice, a nice, a nice, a nice, a nice, a nice, a nice, a nice, a nice, a nice, a nice, a nice, a nice, a nice, a nice, a nice, and I theeousesesesesesesesesese, and I the, and I would that, and I would that, and I would theck, and I would that, and I would that, and I would that, and I would that, and I would that, and I would that, and I would that, and I would that, and I would that, and I would that, and I would that, and I would that, and I would that, and I would the, and I would the, and I would the, and I would the, and I would toe, and I would toe, and I would toe, toe, toe, thea, thea, thea, theaugh, thea, thea, theananananananananananananananananananananeating, I would theanananananeanean. And when I woke up, I would have essentially a nice smooth, over-pressed look

that was completely even. It was like a miracle. It was like completely even. And once my hair got long enough, it no longer looked like a plant or anything. But the beginning of the sleep box was amazing. Listen, you know we were never on board. But, because the thing is if he tried to do it, it wouldn't have made sense. But what you needed was those two, two good hours on this side. And then two good hours on the back, and then two more hours on the other side. And so you just had that pressure kind of lit. So it looks like a box haircut.

And so sometimes we would come in but you know I love how because Josh didn't your mom call you will I ain't one day? Look I've had a lot of hair things happen in my life okay so this is my thing the reason I bring up the weekend the reason that I think all this is good stuff is because to me that's what freedom looks like freedom is the freedom to maybe not make the best choices that's real freedom. I mean that is and it's like so the fact that we don't ever talk about how like the things that we say to each other because like I knew growing up I couldn't walk around be a little girl with the Afro because aunties would not allow it like that hair's not getting pressed it's not getting relaxed.

Like the only time as a little black girl that your hair can th th girl th girl th girl th girl th girl th th th th th th th th th th is th is th th th is like th th th th th th th th th th th th th th the the the the the that's that's that is like the the th. that's like that's like that's like that's like that's like that's like that's like that's like that's like their their their their their their their their their their their their their their th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the the the the the like theeeeeeeeeeee. theeeeeeeeat the. theeee. that's like the it's not getting relaxed. Like the only time as a little black girl that your hair can be really natural is if your mother's putting it in like barrettes and little braids and stuff like that. You were never walking around with an Afra ever. Because you're walking around with an Afra, it was like, oh, your mama didn't their hair, why are you out here looking like this. After the break, I want to talk a little bit more about that Boderic situation and the kind of modern version of it with regards to the Cardassians and once you choose to go on a natural hair journey, I need to know how do you learn? Where do you learn? Who teaches you? Who becomes your natural hair Yoda?

We'll do that beyond the scenes. Chelsea you just told us, excuse me, Daily Show Deep Doc producer Chelsea Williamson, you just spoke in the previous break about a black woman who lost a discrimination case with her employer because she had cornrows like Bo Derek, which surely she only did because of Bo Derek. Right. Can we talk about how ridiculous that is? And also, like, wasn't there like more of a present-day version of that with the

Kardashians? Yeah, I mean, cultural appropriation of black hairstyles is nothing new in the least, and I feel like it is something that we've been seeing for years and years and most recently, through the Cardassians, like I remember when, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, can th, th, can thi, thi, can thi, can thi, can thi, can thi, can thi, can thi, can thi, can thi, can thi, can thi, can thi, can th, can th, can th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, can th, can th, can th, can th, can th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the least, and I feel like it is something that we've been seeing for years and years and years and years and most recently through the Kardashians. Like I remember when Kim first started wearing those French braids and they started calling them boxer braids, but actually they were box, it was just like they were taking and making all these new words for these things that like black women specifically have been doing for like hundreds, thousands of years. Hey guys, this is my th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi, the. the. the. the. And, the. And, thi, thi, thi, thi. And, thi. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thii. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, doing for like hundreds, thousands of years. Hey guys, this is my mound of hair.

You mean Afro? No, mound of hair. Well, the thing is like, and I'm not always here to defend, I mean, I love them. I don't care what nobody says. But the thing that was like, because I remember as a little girl wanting the French braids, because all little girls had French braids, and then my mother kept putting cornrows in my hair. And I was like, two French braids look was great. Two cornrows, does not look cute, right? Especially, it doesn't get the same effect, right?

Unless they're gonna be huge. And so, because like, two cornrows is like, this is utilitarian, like, I'm got thied, thied, thied, the, thied, thied, the, thied, the, thi, the, th... th. the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, thi, thi, th. thi, like, like, like, like, like, thi, thi, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to, t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. th. th. I'm got to, this is, I'm getting hair out the way. Because like, I currently have on a wig. My hair isn't two cornrows going underneath it. I only learned how to cornrow decently during lockdown. And it was only to get my hair under a wig because my protective style in the wintertime because winter cold weather is too much for an afro, it's a wig. So when I started seeing, because the reason I started calling box of braids is because those UFC girls were wearing them

to keep their hair out of their face, because I guess a ponytail wasn't enough, right? And then all of these white girls started wearing these box, they call them boxids and we were just like, they're just cornrows. And then it became a trend, so the Cardassians started wearing it and they're like, oh my God, it's a cultural appropriation. Wait, wait, wait, why wouldn't we yelling at them UFC girls? Because they started it, because that's you know the term came from girls in the UFC so no one was saying that it was cultural appropriation on that side

but now we're yelling at the Kardash I think the issue is that I don't think any of the UFC fighters knew that they were getting boxer braid they were just like just braids so don't get knocked out and then the was called boxer braids by the people, the zeitgeist at large if you will. So I guess the thing is that the Kardashians, because they've always aligned themselves so close to black culture, anything that they do that dabbles in black culture, I think there's an expectation or demand from black people that the cardashings have a knowledge.... their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. T their. Thea. Thea their. Thea their. Thea their. Thea their. T, their is their is their is their is their. Thea. Thea. Thea. Thea. Thea their their their their their their. Theatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheat. their. their. their. their. their. Their. Their. Their. Their. Their. Their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is. I is. I their th. I th. th. theeeathea. th. th. their their their their their their their their their their their their their their the Kardashians have a knowledge of what it is they're doing. And I think a lot of the time they don't. But when those girls who did UFC, they also grew up in America.

So they know what cornrows look like. Because if the option was they could have just got French braids. Because the only difference between a French braid and a cornrow is how you turn your hands. It's the same technique except for a corn row you pull the hair under the braid and for a French braid you pull the hair over the braid. It's the same thing because I literally did like a communication class in college we had to do a like a speech where we had to like teach how to do something and that's what I taught was like this is a corn row and this is a French braid and there are a the the the their their their their their their th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thrown. th. the. th. th. th. th. th. th. thr- thr-I the. thr-I the. the. the. the. the. the. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And the. And the. And thr. And throwne. And throwne. And throwne. And throwne. And throwne. And thr. And thr. And for thr. And for the thr. And to do something and that's what I taught was like this is a corn row and this is a French bread and there were black girls and white girls

in class like wait a minute we've been doing the same thing the whole time like basically but those girls knew they were getting cornrows so they should have been getting heat too everybody should have to theytea the only difference the only thing I'll say that the the the the th is is th is they th is they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they the the try took took took took they they they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they they're they only difference, the only thing I'll say about the picking and choose it is people came for Kim because she cannot fight. I think that a lot of people wanted to say something to those UFC girls but they were like, A they're covered in blood, she clearly doesn't have, she's not operated at the same level, like maybe we got to let this one go. Like I'm sure a lot of those UFC fighters have partners and I'm sure a the the the the the th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. I th. I'm just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just a th. A lot th. th. th. I'm just th. th. I'm, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I'm, I th. I th. I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I, I, I, I, I, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I. And I'm sure one of the partners wanted to be, there might be, there might be a partner that just knew, saw the whole thing come,

was like, baby, you may want to call them Corrose, because never mind, you know what, I'm gonna get dinner. Don't tell me what to do, I'm a fighter. I'm gonna go ahead and get dinner ready. So Chelsea, to Dulce's point about learning cornrows basically as an essential tool for the creative evolution of her career, what was your journey like in learning how to do different natural hairstyles and maintain, like where did you learn, like once you make the decision, all right, I'm gonna be natural, where do most people go to learn how to do that to the maximum? I feel like, Josh, I would ask you, Josh, but you go to Dulce's house, so I'm not going to ask you. I definitely learned on YouTube University, which is what it was called in 2015.

YouTube University has been saving niggins. Yes, I learned on YouTube University and you know, it was just looking up various like natural hair YouTube videos. Like that was like, I want to say the like mid-2010s is like the peak of like natural hair YouTube. So I was just in honestly with like everybody else and all the natural hair blogs, like so there was just a lot of ways to kind of figure it out. But I tried everything. Most of it didn't work. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. the the th. th. thi. thi. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. the the the the the the the the the the the was just a lot of ways to kind of figure it out but I tried everything most of it didn't work honestly like I remember when everybody's like oh you got to put the oil in the gel and then the and all this stuff that was taking like 20 steps and like I had to go through all of

that putting like I remember you know or at one point pitting rice water putting hen on your hair like just all this kind of stuff they like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like. like. the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I thi. I try. I try. I try. I try. I try. I th know, henna and rice fix everything. Rice water, putting henna on your hair, like just all this kind of stuff, they're like, it makes it stronger and it works so well for natural hair and da da da da da. I went through all of that. Um, only more recently have I started like following natural hair stylists on Twitter and I've like, like, that, like, th past like six to eight months, would I say like now, I'm like, okay, I have a generally like three-step rule. It's pretty quick and like I don't take all this time because it really used to be a wash day for me and I was tired of it. Like I was like nobody

has time for this and now I'm like it's like an hour and a to a lot of girls because we do you learn from a lot of people from the internet is you think you have to do like these 10 to 20 steps to get your hair to look a certain way and it's like you really don't honestly for most of us it's best to keep it simple but you do have to kind of have that trial and tribulations of it I feel like every natural hair like every girl with natural hair has gone through it where you just at one point doing a bunch of things it was taking you seven hours to do your hair. Well the other thing is just like one if that's why like hair type started being such a big deal because it's like my mother and I have completely different hair types so my mother's hair is a much looser curl than my my so my thi so my mother's hair th so th so th so th is th is thus thus thus their is thus thus thus thus thus their is thi. thi. thi. So my thi. So my thi. So my thi. So my mother's thi. So my mother's thi. So my mother's thi. So my mother's thi. thi. that's that's thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. I I I I I I I I I's thi. I's thi. I's thi. I's thi. That's thi. I's thi. I's thi. I's theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. that's thi. That's thi. That my hair. So I had to because like when

Josh came over when I deep conditioned his hair I made a conditioner because when I deep conditioned my hair I make the conditioner and so like a party me put like during yeah. What was I thought she was cooking for a second like like like like. Some of that condition to be smelling good dog yeah yeah she smells edible she had the egg and she had the avocado that stuff I was like oh I didn't I didn't know it's gonna be breakfast too this is amazing it was an egg and avocado and olive oil because I didn't have enough I didn't have enough my sweet almond oil and I blended up and then if it didn't have enough, I didn't have enough of my sweet almond oil, and I blend it up.

And then if it's I make enough where I'm gonna put it in the fridge, because this is all, I'll take some of my regular, like the store bought deep conditioner because there's like preservatives and chemicals in it, and I'll mix some of that in sometimes if I'm making a big batch so it'll stay in the fridge. Because if you just put olive oil on the egg, you just basically made fancy-ass mayonnaise. That's not going to last a month. So, but it's something, like the last time I did it, I took like a whole leaf of aloe,

blended that bitch up too. Because people are like making the texture of the hair is what you're saying. Well, it's not even just the texture of the hair. It's, you know, like Josh has low perocity hair, meaning that Josh's hair. My hair is ashy. His hair is always dry. My hair is high para- so it takes Josh's hair a long time to get wet. Yeah. And then it dries very quickly. My hair gets wet quickly and does it and takes longer to dry. So you have to know when you're conditioning it's like people kept talking about the lock method the lock method so it's like use like a liquid and then an oil and then a

cream and then I remember going well oil seals the hair so if you're putting a cream on after you seal the hair then you're just wasting fucking product it's not making sense and then every and I remember I remember I remember. the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I th. th. I th. th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I was th. I was like th. I was like th. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. It was like th. It was like th. It was like th. It was like th. It was like. It was like, th. It was like, th. I'm. I'm. I'm. It was like, it was like, it And then, and I remember, I remember when everybody was putting, I always like, it was like, 2016. Everybody was putting coconut oil on everything. Oh, girl. We was putting on our skin. We was putting on our hair. And it's like you had to learn that putting oil on something doesn't

moisture it. Putting oil on something o something oil. So people putting coconut oil on dry hair and then they just had oily dry hair. So then we had to go through this whole cycle with coconut oil and then everyone was like, okay we shouldn't be doing this like this. So it was like, okay, it was moisturizing. So there's every couple of years. There's a trend. It's a trend. But the reason that there's a trend there's a thetreat our hair is because for so long, we weren't allowed to wear our hair as a crew out of our head. So we literally lost a connection of how to take care of our hair because for how long up until like the 70s. They brought us over here 16, from 1619 to the fucking 19 70s we weren't doing our own hair. we weren't doing our own hair. We. We their. We their. We their. We their. We their. We their. We their. We were. We their. We were their. We were their their their their their their th. We were th. We were th. We were th. We were tre over here 1619. From 1619 to the fucking 1970s we weren't doing our own hair. We were braiding it up and putting it underneath something. You weren't, you know, or like if you look at

the early 1900s, they were styling their hair to look like European hairstyles. So you were still putting heat on it, you know, like the Marceline and hot comb and all the other stuff. We were to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the. thiupupupupe. thi. thi. the thi. the the the the the the the the their their, their, their their their, their, their, the fucking the fucking their, the fucking their, their, their, their fucking their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their f.fogeckeckeckeckeckeuroc-19su.foombeau.fogeckeckecke.fogeckecke. f. their, their,, like you talking like the Marcell Iron and Hotcom and all the other stuff. We were putting heat on our hair to be able to do European hairstyles. And black men, even though they were their hair quote unquote natural, they still had to keep it cut low. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It wasn't like black men were walking around with big-ass Afros in 1935. No. They was putting parts in it in the 30s looking like Cab Calloway and shit. Conkinant. So, Cap Calloway with the waves. After the break, I want to expand on that point, Dool-save, because I want to talk about the responsibility that we have to one another as a black community to foster positive relationships with our natural hair and what the resources are and we need to talk about the legislation side of this and The Crown Act and exactly what that is and I'm gonna tell you about the terrible haircut I almost got in Canada But we don't talk about hair styles we regret this this is beyond the scenes. Yes Canada. I was up there Let's talk about the Crown act. Let's talk about the legal side of change on this issue. this. this. th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the legal, th, th. the legal, th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the legal the legal th. the legal the legal the legal the legal the legal th. the legal the legal thi. thi. the legal thi. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the to thi stands for creating a respectful and open world for

natural hair, if I'm not mistaken, and it basically was created to fight these legal battles and to try and make sure. Fat bar, I'm sorry. Them letters mean something? Yeah. I just don't admit to top your head. It's an acronym. That's why it's in all caps.

Oh, I thought you all was just always typing it wrong. Anyway, continue on, public. All right, we did our research. Shit. No problem. But yeah, it's created to fight against these discriminatory, like practices and codes that are existing in laws and in workplaces and dress codes. And I think it's been legalized in quite a few states, but not every state.

It's legal to like where your natural hair as is, which is crazy to say out loud, but is true. So that's what the Crown Act is seeking to do. It's like seeking to actually go and make sure that natural hair is legal in every single state, because that should be a bad idea to me is when I see these football players with the long, wrong locks. Yes.

Because I was watching some football game and I saw a lock on the field. Oh yeah. They deliberately target your locks and then we'll take it off the field, like a trophy, like the predator. Because they said it's not a part of like grabbing Because like grabbing the locks isn't concluded like grabbing the uniform, right? Yeah, it's all part of your physical being. I can legally grab that. If you're a football player, wouldn't you tuck your locks into the back of the, uh?

Oh, because then how would you not know I'm a bad motherfucker? That's the box. Yeah, some of them that don't want a bald the the the the thaker. Tbuck. Tbuck. Tbuck. Tbuck. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. I. I. I, th is, th is. I th is. I th is. I th is. I th is tho. I that is that is tho. I tho. I tho. I tho. I tho. I tho. I tho. I tho. I tho. I that is that is that is that is that is th is th is th is th is th is th is a th is a th is a their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their th. I that. I that. I that. I can can that. I can that. I can that. I can that. I can that. I can that. I can the the that. I can that. I can that. I can that. I can that for 15 years. Yeah, some of them do it. Oh, gotcha, gotcha. Some of them that don't want a bald spot, they do it, but. Oh, yeah, you're gonna leave with a plug. Right. They ain't gonna have a plug. But do they make the guys with just long hair? Do they make them tuck their hair? Palomalu, I feel like his I feel like his hair flowed from under his helmet like

that's how he won a few NFL players with a shampoo commercial. Right. He had a head and shoulders ad for a while. That's some gorgeous man though wait. Is he Tonga in someone? Yeah, some were over there. I ain't gonna guess I ain't try and get canceled. He from over there. I'll make some make the people with one of them. I'll make some humans with that. I ain't gotta pop it that right there. So we can legislate some level of acceptance, but what are things that we could be doing as a people to create more acceptance within our community when it comes to supporting people on the natural hair journey? Are we not supporting? I mean, embrace everything everything everything everything everything everything everything everything everything everything th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I'm like thus thus thus. I'm thus I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th th th thin. I tho tho tho the the tho the tho the thean tho tho the tho the the the tho the that th I mean embrace everything that you see because I feel like this is what's happening. When you're white you can have like literally the same hair or somebody else minus one thing and it's a whole different hairstyle. There's no there's no way

to wear white hair that is not considered a style. Like you can't like even if it is unkept they're still like that's where grunge came from, like there's no situation with white people where they're doing something wrong with their hair. They may be doing something that's like unkempt to someone else but everything is a style and I think that we still have like a little bit of of of ways to go when it comes to like there are the ways our to to th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. thi. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the thi. that's that's thi. that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that go when it comes to like, there are the ways our hair grows naturally. So a lot of people naturally lock up. A lot people naturally get afros, everything. But then there are some things where I think that

kind of to what Dulce I would say before, there is like some self-policing in there, where it's like, well, why can't he have like a sort of like a scurl toe, can't he have like, you know, a sort of like S-curl to the side or what like whatever goofy thing it looks like because then the same way that fashion works that'll like give rise to a thing that's actually cool one day like it'll inspire something else. But I think it's because we have been taught that we have to be presentable. And I don't know if it's just all black people or just southern black people. But we have, when you, the same, the, the, th, the, th, th, th, th, w, w, w, w, w, w, w, w, w, w, w, w, w, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, like, like, like, like, like, thi, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, th. thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, thi, thi, like, thi. th we have to be presentable. And I know if it's just all black people or just southern black people.

But we have, when you step out the house, also we are flashy-ass people. We are flashy as get dressed like, because I remember being in Vegas and we were going to a show. And the only people that were dressed up to go to, because like, these are like, you know, Vegas shows, like big as Vegas shows in their their their their their their their their their their their their their just, their just, their their people that were dressed up to go to it because like these are like you know Vegas shows like big as Vegas shows of these hotels and stuff these white folks out here and it's cargo pants and Margaritaville t-shirts black folks was dressed there might only been a few of us there but we go we go when we go out when we go out we go out

you can't even the most hood as dude his sneakers is still clean you see what I'm saying so for us to past the self-policing we would also have to get past the fact that like yo if you don't come out the house looking a certain way even if you have no money you still come out the house looking decent you see what I'm saying changing that definition of decent within our people right so because you still have to come out the house looking presentable because you already have to the the the the the the the the the the the the to to the to the the the the to the to the to the to to the to the the to to the the to to to the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. the the the the the the the the the the. the the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. because you still have to come out the house looking presentable, because you already have to deal with all of the racism and all the other stuff. No matter how many degrees you have, if you were nigger in a binge, you were a nigger in a binge, it don't matter, you're still a target.

So the mindset is if I'm going to be a with your head looking like this and your clothes is a little look kept you? You're inviting the cops to fuck with you and I think that's how sometimes we think Because even if you out here looking nice the cops are still gonna fuck with you But see what I love now about us as a people they'll say to that point if I can piggy back then? To that point what I love is that in the 90s in Alabama the perception the perception the perception the perception the perception the perception the perception the perception the perception the perception the? the? the? the? the the the the the the the the the the th, th, they, they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll told? they'll to say, to say, to say, they'll to say, they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll told. told. told. told. told. told. told. told. toe. toe. toe. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I'll toe. I'll toe. I'll toe. I'll toe. I'll toe. I'll toe. I'll toe. I'll toe. I'll toe. I'm. I'll toe. I'm. I'm th. I point to that point what I love is that in the 90s in Alabama The perception would have been Why he out here looking any kind of way You ain't got no good hair you need to brush your head

Whereas now I could see a black person with locks with dreads with the afro that they ain't quite figured out what they want to do with yet and just respect that they on the journey. It's al, the same way the hoodie. the the the th, th, th, th, th, th, th. tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, thi, they thi, the, the, the the, the, the, the, they're the the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, their, their, their their, their, their, their, their, they they they they they they they they they're they they they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they the, they they the, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they they the It's almost in the same way the hoodie has become this accepted. You didn't want to look like a certain type of person if you wear it is. We're now, it's like, no, this is what I wear. I'm proud to wear it and I want you to respect and accept me no matter what I'm doing on my body, be it hair or clothes. Chelsea, how much does, what role do retail this play? Because, y'all know my girl, y'all know my partner, Salon.

And Salon like meets with other women with natural hair just on the street. Like, they just see each other and just, you got natural hair? I got natural hair? Where you get your natural hair? And it's like a conversation, like, it's like buying weed in 1982. Yeah. How much of a responsibility do retailers play in getting more hair anx and creating more shelf space for this style of hair that's becoming more prevalent?

I think they're a big part. I also think that a lot of them need to stop having an ethnic hair care line like aisle. There's still a lot where it's literally called the ethnic hair care aisle. The black aisle. It's like just put it in the hair care section and we will know. Here's your section, Negro. Here's your section. I love that. I don't want to get confused by pantine and all those other goofy shit. Have by shit over here. I go up. Fuck that you can segregate that. I I I I I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I go, okay, fuck that. You can segregate that. I don't have time to be fucking, uh-uh. I don't be going through garnia fruit treeses, all that suave shit. No, put my shit over here where I know my hair gonna get moisterized instead of me getting tricked, my bottles looking and like, now all of a sudden I got baby Johnson and Johnson my fucking house. my fucking house. Keep my, you can keep my shit separate. Chelsea, excuse, excuse separate but equal over there.

Go ahead and. I understand what you're saying, though, Jules say. And I also don't mind how, maybe if you have it in a specific section, that's fine, but I just don't think that needs to be called the ethnic section. Like I think if I look. I, if we we we we we we we don't we don't th, I look. I look. I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I thi, I thi, I th, I th, I thinks, I th, excuse thinks, I thinks, excuse thinks, excuse thinks, excuse thinks, I thinks, I thinks, I thinks, I thinks, I thinks, I thinks, I thinks, I the, I the, I the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thinks, thinks, thinks, thinks, thinks, thinks, thinks, thinks, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to moisture, I know where I'm at. You know? Right. So I would say like that's a big thing. And then also a lot of these companies need to be a lot more wary about what they're putting into these black hair care products because hair care products in their hair. Hair products in general have a lot of them used to be made for people with relaxers they had to have a lot of stuff in them that may not have been very good I think that could also be improved and then yeah also just depending on the

different textures like I think you need to carry stuff that's for all textures of curly hair not just for women with looo te teurl and just so everybody is being included. All I know, if one more white person comes up with me talking about diva curl, I'm going to jail. Do they try to touch your hair? Are white people still trying to toubent tou? Are white people still trying to toubent toub in 202 or is the memo been sprained? People are still trying to, their to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to try. curly, I guess it's trickled down to them. Yeah, no, it has.

It has. Now they're not straightening their hair like they used to. And I know what whose company Diva Curl is. I've never met any black woman who has any type of four texture that uses it. I don't even know anybody with three that uses it. They're like, yeah, Diva curl. I don't use this shit. I. I. I this shit. I th. I th. I'm th. I don't use th. I don't use th. I don't use th. I'm th. I don't use th. I don't use th. I don't use th. I don't use th. I don't use. I don't use. I don't use. I'm like, I'm like, I don't use. I'm th. I'm th. I'm this. I'm this. I'm this. I'm this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this the company. I's the company. I's their. I's their. I's their. I's their. I'm their. I'm their. I'm their. I'm their. I don't use. I don't use. I don't use. I don't use. I don't use. I don't use. I don't use. I don't use. I don't use. I don't th. I'm like, th. I don't th. I don't th. I don't th. I don't th. I don't use. I don't use. I'm not, I have 4C hair. We're not, we don't have the same needs. You're still having to strip oil from your hair. I don't need, there's no, I have nothing to strip. I'm just trying to cleanse and moisterize. So now they're starting to triple now.

So now there are, you know, non-black people of color and white people with hair that are now, like, shaisture got in trouble a while back. Chelsea, you remember this? Yeah. Folks was mad because they had a commercial and it was some curly hair redhead girl in the commercial. And I think the main thing was, that that was the first commercial. Yeah. That Shane Moisture was going to put on TV. And it was a curly haired white girl in it. th. And it. And it, and it, and it, and it, and it, and it, and it, and it, and white, and white, and it, and it, and it, and it, and it, and white, and it, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, they had had they had had they had had they had they had they had they had they had they had they had they had had they had had their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, th. their, th. th. th. th. thi had thi had their thirty thirty thirty their, their their their their their their their th. their their their their, their, woman were like, y'all, we've been on board with y'all since day one

and y'all do y'all's first commercial and it's a white girl in it? Yeah, yep. The hell are you talking about? And they ended up pulling the commercial or something. The store that I always carried the most natural, like, black hair products for me, that wasn't the beauty supply the store, supply store was Walmart. I was about to say Walgreens. Yeah. Yeah. Walmart had it and then Target all of a sudden started

because like before you had to go hunt down Carol's daughter. You had to go hunt down shade moisture. You had to go hunt down to Leahy. We got down these products. Right. And so now it's I can roll in target and go and get these products. And so there has has has has has th has th has th has th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. th. th. th. I th. I the th. I the the the the the. I th. I to the tha. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. tow. tow. tow. tow. tow. tow. tow. tow. tow. tow. tow. tow. towar. towar. towar. towar. toge. toge. toge. toge. toge. toge. toge. toge. toge. toge. toge. toge. toge. these products. And so there has to be a thing where it's like we have to talk about, you know, we have different textures of hair and different texts of hair have different needs. Because I can tell, if there's a black girl on TV, that curl is gonna be loose.

Yep. Loose. We don't even have time to even get into that because the more natural hair styles you see on television helps to normalize natural hair but then that means that you have to hire people who know how to do natural hair so that you can get the right hair care for the actors and the actresses on set who have natural hair. Lord, this lady tried to cut my hair the wrong direction one time on the show. We don't even have time. The wrong direction! I cut my hair to the front.

She took them clippers and went to the back like I was getting enlisted in the Marines. So to close out the show, let's stay right there in that pocket. Everybody, one by one, give me your worst hairstyle you ever had. Hairstile you thought was the shit and you look back on her and go I should not have done that. Josh Johnson. It's fitting that I go first I guess. Uh, so. Wow, what an attack? What a? Because you said all of it, like you were ready, right? Like just your worst hairstyle that you thought was popping it, it wasthought was popping at, it was, it was all one breath, one sense. Josh, I know you got six or seven in the clip, go on give us one. Bless us. Well, I'll give you one that was not my fault. So I got a haircut from a guy that while he

was cut by hair, his fiance broke up with him. And so then he still tried to finish the cut, emotional, like stressed out, everything. Then at one point he like tries to call her. So he's like, can I just say, I was like, hey, do what you got to do? And then he calls her, doesn't win her back on the phone call. So now I just, he has the rest of my head to do. Now he's worse. Now he has the rest and I know I don't look good because he didn't offer me the mirror he was just like he was just he was finished and

there was like I'm pippin like uh I appreciate you coming through appreciate you understand of everything but like he's still like so upset that he's not in the world and so then I leave and there was there was someone who genuinely walked up to be all the buses I was in Chicago watched me all the the the the the the the the the the the the the th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th the th th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thus. thus. thus. th. th. th. th. th. th. he he he he he he he th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the. the. the. he the. he he the. he the. genuinely walked up to be all the buses when I was in Chicago walked to me all the bus. I was like, are you all right? Like, do you have somewhere to go? And I was like, how was like, you were homeless? 100%.

And they gave me a one love as they got off the bus. And I was like, wow, okay, this is probably the worst haircut that I've ever had in my entire life. It was like, you know what it, you know what, the only thing I can compare to is, it's actually, doles like, this is why I was so stressed out about getting haircuts. Was this, this exactly. But it was the close that I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I can I can I can I can I can that I can that I can that I can that I can that I can that I can that I can that I can that I can that I can that I can that I can that But it was the close that I can think to it is in the commercial, Roy, you might remember it, in the commercial for the video game, I think it was Ray to Rumble, where one of the guy, like the black guy with the Afro guy,

it was like that. And a piece of his Afro came! Chelsea, give us a legacy hairstyle that you look back on with regret. I'm gonna guess. I feel like you had finger waves at some point. No, I never had finger waves, but the first time and only time I ever did twists on like when I was transitioning but pretty much natural. I got them done in a salon. I don't know what, well, my hair is fine and thin, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, th, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and, that, that, thi, and, that, that, and, that, to that, 't know what, well my hair is fine and thin. Let me say that because fine and thin girls will understand. My hair is not made to be twisted

like that. I looked like an ostrich. I sent a photo to my father and he was literally like, you look like an ostrich because it was just like all these curls that were just sticking out. And it looks like single curl. I literally had had to go home and wash my hair and do it all over again They'll say I'm gonna guess yours. I'm gonna say Queen Latifah Mother of Egypt high top fade. Okay, my mother would never predicted me to have a high top fade What I can say is that in like the early 90s I lived in Miami, we moved back to Miami and the trend at the time in Miami was to make every little girl look like a grown-ass woman. So I remember being in PE and me and other little

little black girls they were like, we're playing flag football. We're like, uh-uh thesethese finger waves gotta last all week, coach. And so I have finger waves in Miami, I have French rolls. So you basically had every hairstyle from the movie Baps with Halle Berry. Not that bad, but, because I would have, I would tell you, I look like, I was 10 years old, and I look like a young executive. That's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's, that's, that's, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, the, uh, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th, th, th, th, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, I look like I was 10 years old, 9 and 10 years old and I look like a young executive. That's what I would tell you.

I had, I'm talking about, so basically some of the hairstyles from like the movie, a boomeran. So, so I had the finger waves that went to a French role. Like I looked like I was running HR when really I was learning how to divide. It's really what I was doing. But the thing that I hated the most, because I loved all them hair styles, but my mama, so when a lady of rage came out, so it's like 94 I guess, like the Afro Puffs, like the Afro Puffs, you know, she came out with a reference stuff with her Afro Puffs, but my the two-tone, to'n't the refops, but their their th-and, but, but th-puffs, but my th-puffs, th-puffs, thuups, their-puffs, their-puffs, their-puffs, their-puffs, their-a, their-a, their-a, their-a, their, their-a, their-a, their-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a, their-a, their-a, their, their, their, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th-a-a-a-s, thr-s, thraua-s, thraua-s'-lau-l-l-l-l-a-a-l-a-a-augh, thrauase, thraua-two-tone black and burgundy weave and gave me afro puffs like the curly black and burgundy hair because burgundy hair was really big burgany and platinum blonde was real big at the time and gave me burgundy and black big afro puffs and I absolutely I hated it.

Burgundy and she in Atlanta Falcons fan? Oh my goodness. That was the head because in Miami at the time it was you had like a two tone where it was like black that faded into burgundy. The kids call it like a baleage or an ombre now but the shit was two tone hair it started black went burgundy or it was blonde and since I was a little girl they were like she can't wear burg. b b b b b b b b b b b b b.. b. b. bu bu bu bu bu bu bu bu bu bu bu bu bu bu. Josh. Josh. Josh. Josh. Josh. Josh. Josh. Josh. Josh. Josh. Josh. Josh. Josh. Josh. Josh. Josh. Josh. I. I their. I's black. I's black. I's like. I's like. I's liked. I'm like. I'm like. I'm like. I's like. I's like. I's like. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I. I. I. I's. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. the. the. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. I'm. the. I'm. I'm. And since I was a little girl, they were like, she can wear burgundy, but she can't wear blonde. Josh, Dulce's mama gave her a fast and furious paint job. Wow. First of all, what will not be allowed? Wow.

Respectfully, okay. Listen, this was Miami's in the early 90s. They was putting acrylic on people's toes. It was a colorful time. My worst haircuttea ca ca ca ca ca ca ca ciiiiiiii, this is this was this is this is this is this is this is th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thusus. thi. thi. thus. thus. thus. thi, thi, acrylic on people's toes. You understand? It was a colorful time. It was a colorful time. My worst haircut is the one I ended up not getting. I was doing a show in Calgary. And Calgary for the people who don't know, that's a part of Canada that's very Wyoming, Montana-esque in terms of what it feels like and the black population up there. And I was there, it was the last thi the the the the the the the the the the the thion the last the last thion thiii. the the the thi. thi. the thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. the th. th. thi. thi. It was thi. It was the. It was the. the. thi. It was thi. thi. It's thi. thi. It's thi. thi. thi. It's thi. and the black population up there. And I was there, it was the last day of shows, and I had an audition in LA the next morning. Like as soon as I land, I got to get straight to the audition.

So I knew there wouldn't be enough time to get a haircut in LA. So I figured, well, let me just roll the dice and see if I can get a haircut here in Calgary. And I asked one of the other comedians, hey, where's it? He goes, where there's a barber shop. He didn't say this spot does black hair. He just said, there's a barber shop. And it was in a mall, that was strike one. Oh, I don't know any black person

get their haircut across from a Forever 21. But it was there. And I walk I I I I I I I I in, there's two white barbers, and God bless them, they both looked up at me and they just go, we can't do it. And like for a split second, I thought it was racism, but they was like, I'm happy to try, but I don't know if you will be happy with what the results will be. I can't do it. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, the the th, th, th. that, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the that, that, that, that, that, that, took, took, took, took, today, took, that, that, that, that, that, the 't you have to learn it to do this job? He goes yeah you learn it but you're only as good as your last cut mate and I can tell you that it's been some years. I said. I appreciate the honesty. It's been some years. Hey I can cut black hair in a while. Now I assume you coming in here because he can see the desperation in my face. He knew I was that we both know what the fuck it is. Right. So I just I just I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I t. I t. I t. I te. I tell. I tell. I tell. I tell. I tell. I tell. I tell. I tell. I tell. I tell. I tell. I t. He knew I was that we both know what the fuck it is. Right. So I just ended up going to Walgreens and buying some clippers and just having it hatchet myself up in the mirror. I ended up not getting the

role if you're wondering. I'm gonna say what the worst feeling is getting on set and seeing a black woman that can't do my hair and that has happened a lot. Getting on set and she being like, sis, and I'm looking at her being like, I can see the vision. You don't need to be touching me anyway. So, yeah, literally coming to set having my own hair care products with me,

doing my own hair, because there's a lot of for the same way that because of how the industry is have only really worked on white people. Now that's something we're going to unpack for the next Dulce saying but that's all the time we have for today. Hopefully we're taking you beyond the scenes. Thank you so much to Dulce Sloan, wonderful correspondent. Daily show deep taking you beyond the scenes. Thank you so much to Dulce Sloan, wonderful correspondent,

Daily Show DeepDar Producer Chelsea Williamson, and of course the wonderful Daily Show writer, Emm nominated writer Josh Johnson. Thank you all so much for going beyond the scenes with me. Listen to the Daily Show Beyond the Scenes on Apple Podcasts, the Iheart Radio app, or wherever you get your podcast.