The Daily Show: Ears Edition - Aaron Judge Makes Home Run History | Maggie Haberman

Episode Date: October 6, 2022

New York Yankees star Aaron Judge makes home run history, Ronny Chieng gets a hard lesson in professional pillow fighting, and journalist Maggie Haberman discusses her book "Confidence Man."See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. Coming to you from New York City, the only city in America. It's the Daily Show. Tonight, TV is too dark. Sports are going soft. And Maggie Haberman. This is the Daily Show with Trevor Noah. Thank you so much for tuning in.

Thank you for coming out in question. Good to see you. Good to see you. Good to see you. Thank you so much, everybody. Take a seat. Let's erman is here to tell us what Donald Trump told her to her face. So let's do this people let's

jump straight into t big stories, let's catch up on a few other things going on in the world. Starting off with big news out of the retail industry, Goodwill, the famous donation store, has launched its own e-commerce site where you can buy secondhand items online. So if you're looking to buy a shirt for 40 cents but then pay $20 in shipping, you're in luck. No, but this is great, this is great. You know, it's good to see them expanding. They do really good work, but you have to admit thrift shopping online isn't just the

same as doing it in person. You know, you've got to be there to see the patterns, you feel the faq the fabric fabric fabric fabric fabric fabric fabric, you, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, smell, that, smell, smell, that, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, smell, s secondhand sweat just like hmm someone's grandpa. In international news an Irishman just became the first person ever to row a boat from New York City to Ireland. Yeah it took him four months but he said it was still better than flying out of LaGuardia. Like I they at L Atlantic might be dangerous, but it's still better than Terminal Tree. Ah, in economic news, the Treasury Department has announced that America's national debt has hit $31 trillion, which damn, that's a lot of debt. You realize the only solution now is for America to marry another country that has good finances, right? Yeah, Joe Biden needs to go out and give a press conference like, ah, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, still still still better better, thi, still still better, still better, still better, thi, still still better, thi, still better better better, thi, thi, thi, th only solution now is for America to marry another country that has good finances,

right? Yeah, Joe Biden needs to go out and give a press conference like, hey, Japan, you up? But let's move on to some of the biggest stories of the day, starting with a major milestone in the world of baseball. The only sports that's somehow better on radio. Baseball is a game that treats its records with re with. You know, all of them, from Cal Ripken Jr's more than 2,600 consecutive games played, to Joe DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak, to Derek Jeter's record of being the only successful guy ever to be named Derek.

But no stat is more revered than the home run. And last night, Yankees Outfieler, Aaron Judge, smashed his name into the record books. With the swing of his mighty bat, Yankee superstar, Aaron Judge, slubbed his way into history. There we go, soaring into history. It took until the 161st game of the season. But number 99 has finally etched his name in the record books. Aaron Judge passes the great Roger Maris to break the record for most home runs in a

single season by an American League player. Ball was caught by Corey Eumans of Dallas, a vice president at Fisher Investments. He said he hasn't decided what he's going to do with the souvenir, which could be worth a couple of million Dollars Well, there's a feel-good story for you. I'm glad things are finally working out for that executive at an investment firm That's what the game is all about you good for you buddy Good for you, you for you

But yeah, huge congratulations to Aaron Judge, right? With just one game left to go in the season, he broke the American League home run record set by Roger Maris all the way back in 1961. Think about that, 1961, that is a long ass time for a record to stand. I mean, back in 1961, you understand how long ago that was, America didn't have a voting rights act and abortion was illegal. Very different times. Now, to be clear, this is just the American League home run record, not the all-time record.

But some people think it should be, because everyone who's above-erran judge on the list was busted for taking performance-enhancing drugs. And whether you like it or not, this is a complicated issue. Because every player, whether they tooks, or not they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they their th they th th th th th th th the the the the the the the the thoe thoease thoe the took took thoeate. thoes thi. thi. thi. thi. took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took took too too too tooe. tooe. tooe. tooe. tooe. tooe. tooe. tooe. tooe. tooe.. And whether you like it or not, this is a complicated issue. Because every player, whether they took steroids or not, has some advantage over players from other errors. You know, like Babe Ruth, he didn't have access to modern medicine. Yeah, if he pulled a muscle, the team doctor would be like, here, smoke this entire pack of cigarettes.

Go on out there, buddy. You know, if I'm being honest, though, I don't know why we celebrate home runs in the first place. Yeah, because to me all that happened is that you just lost the ball. Yeah, and now we've got to get a new ball. That's like what? $10 with $62the balls out there. You know who we should be celebrating? We should be celebrating the bachelors

who miss the ball completely so we can keep using it. Those people are the real heroes. I'm really fun at parties. All right, let's move on to public health news. You know how the food you buy has an expiration date on it? Yes, and if the food is past that date, then you throw it out unless you're a single guy and then you just eat it anyway? Well, soon there might not even be a date at all.

New this morning, concerns about global food waste or leading countries to rethink best before labels on food. Major UK grocery chains have already removed best before labels and the European Union is expected to revamp its labeling laws by the end of the year. Best before labels are different than used by and have nothing to do with safety. Critics say they could cause people to throw away perfectly good food. Yeah, thank you. This is a great idea. No, no, I'm sick. People throw out perfectly good food all the time

because they think that best buy means goes bad after, when it doesn't. All right? And that's not just bad for the planet. It's an insult to the plants and the animals you get the food from. You're going to toss away some perfectly fine cheese after a cow has worked so hard to pee it out of its four penises? Educate yourselves. And look, I do get that best before and used by our confusing.

I do get that. But it's not that hard to understand. It's sort of like guck. Think of it this way. It's best before you run out of chips But you can still use it by dipping your finger in it when no one's looking Could I clear that up? Yeah Good Anyway, I'm glad they're getting rid of the best bydates because if you ask me all they need? that's that's all I want to know when is the date that this food is going to try? I'm gonna try to try. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th th th th th th th th th th th they they're they're they're th. the. they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their th. th. they. they. they. they. they. they they they're they're they're they're they're th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the the the the theeeeeeeeeeeeeat. theeeeeeeeeee their theee Yeah that's that's all I want to know. When is the date that this food is going to turn my butt into a super soaker? Anything before that is fine I

don't care. All right and finally let's move on to some entertainment news. One of the biggest shows right now is HBO's House of the Dragon. Yeah, huge. Everybody's loving it. And now, obviously, this is a prequel to Game of Thrones, which itself was a prequel to Friends. I'm not going to get into the timeline, but Russ and Rachel are siblings. It's a whole thing.

Anyway, a lot of people were so disappointed in the Game of Thrones finale that they said they weren't ever going to watch House of the Dragon. But now, even the people watching House of the Dragon are complaining that they can't watch House of the Dragon. HBO's House of Dragon is a very dark show thematically, right? But how dark does it have to be visually? Fans of the show, their dismaying. It was actually too dark to even see what was going on in the scene during the show, blaming the lighting budget. Now the HBO Max Twitter helpline was flooded with tweets from irritated fans and the network

kind of brushed off the criticism they offered a boilerplate response on Twitter that read the quote dimmed lighting of the scene was an intentional creative decision. What? This was an intentional creative... Look, I'm not Steven Spielberg or Barry Jenkins, I haven't directed anything, but in my opinion, if your intentional creative decision is that people can't see the TV show that you're making, then you're making a podcast, all right? That's what you mean, that's not TV.

I can't see it. That's not TV. That's a podcast. House of Dragon, brought to you by Casper Matras. No, but for real, have you guys noticed how this is happening on every single show these days? Everything on TV is so dark. You can't see anything. I don't know why. Oh, they're trying to make it grittier? Or they're trying to make to make to make to make it like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, th. If, th. thi. th. thi. th. th. th. thi. th. thi. th. th. thi. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, they're trying to make it grittier, or they're trying to make it like, feel like a movie, or, you know, maybe they figure if they make it dark enough, then we can't complain about the cost not being diverse. You're like, I think that's another white person? I guess I'm going to let it slide.

And right now, HBO is facing a lot of backlash, but I think if they're smart about this, this could be a good business opportunity for them. Yeah, they should just add a higher price tier. Yeah, think about it. They should say HBO Max is 999 a month or 1499 a month if you want to be able to see what the fuck is happening. Which one you're looking for? Huh? Huh? And by the way, if you think it's bad watching a scene that dark, put yourself aside for a moment, and just imagine how tough it must be

for the characters who are in those scenes. The time has come, Lord Valerian. For us to unify the houses and to you Sir Christan. I beg of the Sir Christian that... wait, is that Sir Christian? Who is that? Jeff, is that you? Does someone have a torch or an iPhone light that can shine? No? Well, okay, just at least tell me. Is this a fighting scene or a sex scene? I don't know what... I don't know. I don't know what, okay, I'm just gonna stumble around with my sword out and my penis out,

and we'll see what happens. Okay, let's try this, everybody, let's try this. Here we go to a break, let's move on to something that everybody loves. It's time to check out today's lotto today lot lot lot lot lot lot lot lot lot lot lot lot lot lot today's today's today's today's today's today's today's today's today's today's today's today's today's today's today's today's today's today's to stumble-augh-s-s-swsoa-s'-s'-s'-s'eroenbunnewsoa-s today-s today-s the a the a the a the a the a the a the a the a the a the a the a today'stime to check out today's lotto numbers with our very own, Ducey Sloan, everybody! Hello! Hello? Oh yeah, what's going on, Dose? I'm doing good.

I look like I run a juke joint. What's happening with today's lot of numbers? So listen, I heard that America is $31 trillion in debt. Yeah, America owes the world, Ducey. Do it? We got all the guns. We got all the guns. We got all the guns. Come get it.

Come get all the guns. Come get your money. Come get your money. This is what America do. Come get your money. Doesn't sound like a very professional country. Listen, red, white, and blue, baby, what you're trying to do? And the rocket's red glare. Ha ha ha! It will blow up your entire country. Thank you so much. But like I wish we could treat people like these countries

that we're never going to pay. Because like whole, like other countries also have massive amounts of debt. And no one talks about it. No one's blowing up America's phone every day, like, yo, where's my money? That's not what you do. Like I said, because we got all the guns. But listen, like say you might only be $1,300 in debt.

And now your cousin Jojo keep blowing up your cell phone. Like, bro, this is nowhere near what America owes. Like, stop it. Sir, I'm at the Emmys, leave me alone. Like, what are you talking about? I told you I was gonna pay you, it's fine. Is this personal story? What you talking about?

Oh, it's sounded like you owed someone named cousin Jojojo, no. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. tho, tho, tho, tho, th, sir, the tho, sir, sir, sir, sir, sir, sir, sir, sir, sir, sir, sir, sir, sir, sir, sir, sir, sir, sir, sir, sir, sir, I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, sir, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm th. th. th. th. th. tho, I'm tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. th. tho. th. tho. th. are you talking about? Oh. Okay. Most of this jewelry is real. Ha ha ha. Relax yourself. What's happening with the numbers? So listen, also Goodwill. I heard Goodwill is doing an online store? I heard goodwill is doing an online store. Yeah, I'm going to get to the numbers.

I'm trying to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to talk to talk to talk to talk to to to to talk to to to to to to to to to gonna sell the stuff online. They're gonna make it e-commerce and everything, you know? But like, why? Like you're supposed to go inside and earn them itchy clothes? What? This is just crudglist without the creeps and the creeps were my favorite part. I have no idea what that means. Oh, so you never sent somebody a picture for your feet in exchange for an end-table trouble? Little classy... I'm sorry, wait, wait, did you say send someone a picture of your feet in exchange for an end table? Listen, you gotta give a little classy side boob for an ottoman. What?

You know a little shout of that Georgia peach for a lamp, you know what I mean? Sometimes you gotta furnish your first apartment any way you can, Trevor. That was a real thing? Listen, get out of my business. All I'm saying is, Craig's list was basically only fans, but for furniture. I've never heard of this. No, listen, I never plan to live this way again because I'm trying to marry well.

And I heard you, we're talking about an athlete. Oh yeah, Aaron Judge. Yeah. He plays for the Yankees. And they play? Baseball, he hit the home runs. I'm sorry, okay, baseball. Yeah.

Like I said, athlete. So, he hit the home runs? Okay, so is he married? Or does, does, does, does, does, does, does, or does, does, does, does, does, does, does, does, does, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. to, I, I, I, I, I, I, I the the the the the the the the tha. tha. tha. I,, yeah. Okay, so is he married or does he have a girlfriend? Or does he, you know, does it like black girls? What? Well, I mean, either way, he's taken, like girlfriend or wife, he's taken, so why does it, why would it matter? Oh, it matters, Trevor. A wife is sacred.

But a girlfriend? The f-girlfriend? But a girlfriend, the fuck a girlfriend. What's? Listen, you didn't stand before God and promise anything for no girlfriend? There's no paperwork with no girlfriend? With a wife, the government is involved, okay? That's the law. But with the girlfriend, shit, you put that bitch in the Uber, it's over. It's over. It's a known fact. You don't owe that girl anything, okay?

Now listen, Aaron, Judge, if you're acting right, stick with me, baby. I'll get your 75 for a season. Come on. No, no, don't encourage this he's taken. Let's get to the lotter, please. Just give us taken to so let's get to the lot so numbers please all just give us the numbers let's see who's won hey fine let's do the one oh and the winner is cousin jojo you've won 1,345 dollars in 646 I feel like that's an oddly specific number is that is that that the money that you owe your cousin joe joe joe I feel like that's an oddly specific number.

Is that the money that you owe your cousin Jojo? Like I told you, Trevor, I don't owe people anything. No, this is your lottery, so you owe my cousin Jojo. Good night everybody! M.Osa Sloan, everybody. All right, when we come back, Ronnie Chang is going to get in the ring with an actual MMA fighter, so don't go away. Welcome back to the Daily Show. You know, sports are a vital part of human existence.

Because without them, how else would men find an excuse to cry? Well, here at the Daily Show, we're always looking for the latest trends in the sports world. And it turnss in the sports world. And it turns out Ronnie Chang might have found one. Boxing, go punch itself in the face. MMA, want you cauliflower your own ear. Because right now, there's a brutal new combat that's a sport taking over. And it's called ultimate pillow fight. Pillow Fight. Ow! Oh, so you need some ice.

When you think of pillows, you may think of those party scenes in movies, which I've totally been invited to tons of these sides of parties. Or maybe you think of this guy. Well, fuck off, Lindell, because there's a new pillow guy in town, and he's turning it lethal. I'm so excited to be here with the creator of the pillow fighting championship. Can you please tell me what makes this pillow fighting so exciting? Do you smother people when they're down? Are there bricks in the pillows?

You put razors in it? No, just a pillow. So it's literally just fighting with a pillow? Yeah, fluffy pillow. With our special pillows. Are you lying in bed one night on your pillow and thinking, you know what, I could kick someone's ass with this? Sex and my brother's idea.

We were going to start an MMA club. And he said, I think MMA is saturated. He said, Mom should you do pillow fighting. He was 100% right. So why would this be appealing to anybody? Some people don't like violence, they don't want to see all the blood, but they still want to see a good competition. The human damage is part of sports. There's no violence and damage around this.

A little damage. I'm not scared of pillow fights. I used to practice making out of pillows as a kid. I hope Steve has a backup plan because I can't imagine any athletes lining off to play a sport that isn't a sport. Who's your current pillow fighting champion? Yuri Villefort. I will beat the shit out of your champion. I will prove to you that this isn't a sport. I wouldn't even need to take steroids for this. I couldn't wait to meet the Prebu-Bezin Intel loser dominating in pillows. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, sorry, I just said you.

This was the pillow champ? Did you fail that the other martial arts, is that why you're pillow fighting? No, I'm a middleweight champion in Jiu-Jitsu. Turns out, Yuri Villefort is a pro-MMA fighter and a second-degree black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu who has won multiple tournaments. So it's thanks the question, why are you doing this? I think Pillow Fights is going to be bigger than any martial arts. Anybody can win?

So it's easy? It's not easy. You're gonna get tired and you gotta work to win. All right, fine. So how do you even win in pillow fighting? So it's all about the head shots, right? So if I throw the pillow like this, it's one point. If I hit it like this, it's three points and you get minus 10 points for even pillow fighting because it's stupid It's easy to make fun of pillow fighting, but you actually need a lot of skill training full work because you're gonna fight

You don't need training to do this. There's no training in this. It's pillow fighting. Where's this weapon? What's this deadly weapon that you're using. Your pillow's pink! It's a pink! Oh! What the fuck? Ow! What the fuck? Ow! thin hell, Uri! Stop!

So if you still think this is done, how about set up a fight tonight? Fine. Fine? Fine. thi to the rain. So he was gonna get me to fight one of his students instead. Maybe I do need some training.

Luckily, I know someone who's a pillow expert. told me, my grandma peddle better than this, and she died in 1995. Are you ready? No, it's raining outside. It's raining the rain so people know you're serious. Fish, what? Ow! Ducking, golf ball! Owl. Why are you throwing all this shit at me? I'm cleaning out my garage. Two birds, one stone. Apple. Oh, this is the moment. I don't know about this one, come on man.

Straighten up. Inside that room is some of the most the most the most the most the most the most the most the most the most the most the most the most the most the most the most that the most the most the most the most the most that the most OG pillow fighters in the game. You beat them, you'll be ready for the championship tonight. Make me proud. Because we were built like a champion. Go ahead now, get go on. You ain't snuffing, we were built like a champion. That's my little pillow fighter. Ready to take on it. Ooh, hot dogs. It was the longest montage of my life.

But I was ready to get in the ring and flop him up. What the hell? Is this parkour or pillow fighting? Scoring is one point, clean shot to the head, two points for a 360 with a clean shot to the head, and three points for a knockdown. You can only strike with the pillow, and there's no blocking above the head. What ne need no blocking above the head? The whole thing is, he's aiming for my head. What am I supposed to do?

Move. All right, go back to your corner. And fight. I didn't know I was fighting the Bruce Lee of PFC. Is that legal? Is that legal? It's that legal? One, two. I heard you.

Three, four. I can't believe I was getting my ass kick by package feathers. I'm going to have PDSD every time I go to bed. But then I remembered something Roy said. Duk! Duk! Duk! Duk! Duk! Duh! that duck, duck, duck, died, died. And the winner by knock, and the winner by knock out. Leo Capero.

Maybe I was wrong about pillow fighting. And the winner by knockout, Leo Capiero. Maybe I was wrong about pillow fighting. My broken body is saying this is very much a sport. But as Rocky Valboa said, If I can change, and you can change everybody... Everybody... Thank you so much for that, Ronnie Chek. All right, stay tuned because when we come back, we'll be talking to the New York Times reporter who's broken all your favorite stories on Donald Trump.

Maggie Haberman will be joining me on the Daily Show. My guest tonight is a Pulitzer Prize winning New York Times journalist. She's here to talk about her explosive book that is out this week called Confidence Man. My guest to-a-punit-surprise-winning New York Times journalist. She's here to talk about her explosive book that is out this week called Confidence Man, the making of Donald Trump and the breaking of America. Please welcome Maggie Haberman. Maggie Haberman. Maggie Haberman, welcome to the Daily Show. Thanks for having me. You have written a book that many have called the ultimate guide to Donald J. Trump, because it feels like you have an understanding of him that few, never mind journalists, few human beings do.

And what's interesting is, every time I've seen you're reporting on him, every time I've seen him comment on you and the conversations you have with each other and the interviews that he grants you, even though he seems to hate you, but then he likes you, it seems a little bit like the relationship Hannibal had with Clarice. I can't tell if you, if you have a mutual admiration for each other, a fascination as a journalist. Explain to me why he keeps speaking to you and then afterwards says to you, why would you write the things that he said to you? First of all, thank you and thank you for having me. A couple of things.

Look, he's a subject who I cover and I have covered a number of politicians over the last 26 years. I covered Hillary Clinton, I covered Mike Bloomberg, I covered Rudy Giuliani, who in many ways was a proto-Trump, at least in certain aspects of his behavior, and now is very much like Trump and has become, is more similar to him over time. Trump needs the media in a way that's unlike any other politician I've ever seen. He craves attention, and I explore this in the book. He just constantly wants to hold the media's gaze and he wants to see if he can sell you on a version of himself and he wants to get what he would call a good story. Literally those would be the words, a good story and then you

write about him accurately and he says that it's unfair. You know so that's the dynamic you're ta ta. they's th. th. th. th. th. th. thr-n-n't thr-n't thr-n' thr-n' thr-n' the thr-n' the the the thr-n' the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the's the dynamic you're talking about. But he basically, you know, he's obsessed with the New York Times. That is a lot of what this is about. You know, he is uniquely focused on the paper, and I'm just the person who has covered him more often than not. It really feels like he is somebody who has frozen in time, because everything he's obsessed with, seems to be something that was popular Geist himself, you know, so it'll be the New York Times and then he'll complain about certain magazines but not others and then S&L he'll have a he has a certain pension for but then not other shows. It's like it's an interesting

world that he exists in that isn't current but but seems current to him. And in the book you talk about how he lives minutes to minute when the rest of us move almost from 24 hours to 24 hours but it doesn't th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thus thus the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th is th is th is th is th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to the. th't seem like he's plagued as much by the things we think he is as he actually is. Like, what do we misunderstand about Trump? I actually think you understand really well based on everything you just said. I think there is a, there is a preserved and amber quality to him. You just described that about how all of his cultural touchstones are in the 1980s, which is when he was reaching his height. He loves to talk about how many times he's on the cover of Time magazine. You know, National News magazines, Weeklys, are not in their heyday right now.

And yet he talks about it all the time. The celebrities he talks about are from the 1980s. The sports figures generally are from the 1980s. It it it it it's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. th. th, it's, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th, th, th, th. th. th. th, th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the thi. the the the the toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. thi. thi when he was rising to prominence. And I agree with you that I think there is a degree to which he has just stuck there. And he's also stuck there culturally. He's stuck there in terms of racial politics. He has stuck there in terms of New York City's machine boss politics from that era. And he exported so much of that to Washington and on to that I think that people don't understand and I try to show this and explore this is his fascination with violence and how much violence informs

what he thinks of strength and then strength in terms informs what he thinks is a strong boss or a strong leader so you will hear him praise you know a local machine party boss like the former Brooklyn Democratic Party head as ruling with an iron fist he'll use the same words about Shijin ping the president the president the president the president the president th the president th th th th th th th th th th th th th the president of th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. And thi. And thi's thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And th. And th. And thi. And thi. And, thi. And, thi. And thi. And thi. And, thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. I's thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. with an iron fist. He'll use the same words about Xi Jinping, the president of China, who's an authoritarian. It's all contextless and kind of flat and the same. And I think people miss that, yes, he's playing to crowds. Yes, he will say whatever he has to say

to survive small increments of time. But ultimately, the scenarios that exist for him kind of stay the same. But what makes him scarier in my reading of this book is people often see Donald Trump as somebody who is setting the trends. But as you read through this book and as you understand the man, you come to realize that he is often times a victim of the trends and then he plays to them. So he'll say something to his crowd that he believes. The crowd won't vibe with it. And so then he'll change what he believes in to keep going with the crowd, which makes

him even scary because if you think about authoritarian leaders or any others out there who go, I rule with an iron fist. Their fist is their fist, but Donaldthat man, isn't that a scarier place to be in? And the people around him, do they notice that? Or do they think that he's controlling his own narrative? It depends on how close they get to him, and it depends, frankly, on how willing they are to parrot the preferred version of himself that he presents. So there's two versions of himself that he can wants, which is adulation and hero worship. And he gets that in certain quarters of the conservative media and from some of his aides.

And then there's the portrait of him as competent, strongman. This book is neither one of those, and I think explains exactly who he is. There are people around him who recognize that he is often playing to the room, the crowd. He is taking his cues from Fox News. And then it became it th thi thi thi th thi th th thi th thi th thi thi thi th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the that that that that the. that that that that that that he that he that he that he that he that he that he that thathe thathe the. thathe the. the. the. th. th. the. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. he. he. he. he. He hea. He's hea. He's hea. He really the. He really the. the. the. the. the. theat that's that's that's the. He really theateate. He's the. He really the. He really the crowd, he is taking his cues from Fox News, and then it became this kind of circular feeding cycle with Fox News where they would say something and he would pick it up and amplify it and then they would cover it more and that is often how he makes decisions and I explore how whether that was about not wanting a mask mandate during COVID or whether he

was attacking football players who were taking a knee in protest of police brutality or when he was at CPAC in 2011 and he saw that attacking Ron Paul was playing well to the crowd. It's always in response to how is it playing. He exists an interesting space in the world because you know Donald Trump is the man but then you talk about in the book. There's also Donald Trump the world because, you know, Donald Trump is the man, but then you talk about in the book, there's also Donald Trump the idea, and you give us truly one of the most comprehensive insights into how the man was forged. Many people around the world don't know that he was considered a joke in many New York circles, in business, in entertainment, whatever field it was. Many people don't realize, and you talk about this in the book, how the apprentice was

in some ways a sort of joke idea of like, oh, this guy will tell you how to run your business because he was so terrible. But he was so captivating on screen, he was so magnetic, he knew how to create entertainment. And then it became the tail wagging the dog. People saw the show the show the show the show so saw saw saw the show the show the show the show the show the show the show the show the show the show the show the show the show their. their. their. their. their. their. th. th. th. thii. the, thi. thi. the. thi. thi. thi. thi, thi, thi, their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. the. the. thr. te. tea. tea. tea.a.auuooooooooooooooooooe. And, te. And, th dog. People saw the show, they went, he must be successful. And then because of that, his success started rising, and he went from the doldrums of nothingness, back to being a semi-successful person. So then I wonder, when you look at Donald Trump,

when you think of him through the lens of entertainment and politics, do you think thii thin the thin, do you think he's broken America or do you think he's exposed how America has broken? I think he has exposed aspects of how America has broken and fueled and exploited that for his own gain. I think that the partisan divide that exists in this country, started in the 19-nigh. But it really, really accelerated in the 1990s. And then there were a series of national traumas that voters reacted to. There was an impeachment of Bill Clinton.

There was a terrorist attacks in the U.S. there were wars that followed. There was an election in 2000, settled by the Supreme Court. You know, there was the they thought they were finding in him. But his ethos that he came to define in New York in that period you're talking about in the 1980s really was hate as a civic good. Hate should be a civic good. He would talk about that. He would talk about in the context of racial violence in New York that he would want to hate people. And that he would want to to hhe to hate it it, to hate it, to hate it, to hate it, to hate it, to hate it, to hate it, to hate, to hate, to hate, to their, their, to their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, to, their, their, the to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, their, their, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, their, their, to their, to to to to to to to to to to their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their fueled it and he has benefited from it and there is a tremendous trickle-down effect. He has an interesting you know paradoxical vibe to him at times because on

the one hand and maybe this plays to what you're saying or it's an example of it he plays to the room you know I've interviewed Republicans who at the very beginning would say like no I've spoken to him, he's fine, he just says that to the crowd and then they themselves months later will be like, I'm shocked I didn't think he would do this I didn't think he would go this way. You have said in the book and you say break them down like like video game character moves where you go he's going to defend, he's going to deny, he's going to shift the blame, he's going to get angry, he'll perform the anger, you talk about all these things. Why do journalists now not understand this? Why do journalists still get tricked or trapped into a place where they go Trump what is? What is thramp? What is th. What is th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thr------------------------------------in---i. thin is going thin--------------in is going is going is going is going is going is going is going is going is going is going is going is going? He is going? He is going? He is going? He is going is going? He is going? He is going? He is going? He is going? He is going? He is going? He is going? He is going? He's is going? He's is going? He's is going? He's is going? He's is going? He's going throoeruu. I's going to to to to-au. I's going to to to to-a-a-s. I's going to to-a-s. I's going to toe. I's going thin. It's going to me. Why does that still happen? I think in fairness to my colleagues,

I think for the most part, people realize who Donald Trump is at this point. I think that when he became president, people, particularly in the Washington press corps, many of whom did not follow the campaign in 2016, did not know who he was, the person his finger to do what he wanted. I think people generally do understand that now. I think you have seen far fewer interviews from Maralago over the course of the last 18 months despite his desire to hold the media's gaze. Now,

whether that changes when he's a nominee, potentially, or a candidate, almost certainly, I think that's an open question, and we're going to see how that goes. an open question and we're going to see how that goes. One of the more fascinating parts of the book that I truly enjoyed as somebody who's been immersed in this world for a long time is the brewing clash between Donald Trump and Ronda Sanctus. Rondos is somebody who, in my opinion, has slowly started adopting elements of Trump in order to win over Trump but then doesn't transform himself into Trump so that he seems like a reasonable choice. I mean, like, I watch him even talking in like a briefing and he started using hands like Trump.

He starts doing little moves like Trump. He starts speaking in Kurt's sentences like Trump, very good, very good. Doesn't change his voice, but he dresses in the frumpy suits like Trump. He has like a... No, really. I think he's emulated he's he's he's he's he's em em em em em em em em em emulated he's emulated he's emulated he's emulated he's emulated he's emulated he's emulated he's emulated he's emulated he's emulated he's emulated he's emulated he's emulated he's emulated he's emulated he's emulated of Trump to take Trump's people, but then not so much of Trump to, you know, dissuade the middle voters who want somebody who's reasonable. And it seems like Donald Trump is starting to realize that Ron DeSantis is stealing his vibe and he doesn't like it. No, he's not happy about it. And he thinks that he made Ron DeSan. And he talked about this with me in interviews last year. Yeah. That he was responsible for DeSantis.

I said, Ron, you're at 3%. And when Ron asked for my endorsement, he told me that he, you know, he thought he would beat anybody very easily. I asked if he had talked to DeSantis about running against him or DeSantis running against him. He said that hadn't come up, but it's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's then, thuan an thuan him to any number of people which is often what he does when he's trashes him about his his weight well he's been trashing him privately to people fat phony whiny so trump has been saying that Rhonda Sanctus is fat right okay okay it's it's it's interesting because you also talk about in the

book why you think and how you think Trump sees the presidency and what it brings him he's in a different position to what he to what he to what he to what he to to to to to to what he to to to to to to he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he was he he he he he he's he he's he he's he he's he he's he he's he he's he he's he he's he he's he he's he he's he he's he he's he he's he he's he he's he he's he he's he he's he he's he he's he he's he he he he he he he he he he he th. th. th. th. He's the tr. He's true. He's true. He's true. He's true. He's true. He's trash. He's trash. He's true. He's true. He's truethe book why you think and how you think Trump sees the presidency and what it brings him. He's in a different position to what he was in before. Before it seemed like it was, you know, a joyride. It seemed like another push for publicity, maybe to get more money for the apprentice or whatever. But now it seems like there are more stakes. He may want the politics, but he's also worried. Do you then think, knowing him the way you do and having the interviews that you've had with them and the people around him, do you think that then, in a weird way, Ron DeSantis is now the biggest threat to Trump?

Because if Ronda Sanctus manages to take the Republican Party. Now, a number of donors, and a number of conservatives are hopeful DeSantis is it. We are just seeing DeSantis on a national stage in a way we haven't before it with the hurricane response. And so we'll see how that goes. He has at a couple of off momentsthey're on the bigger stage, and that is one thing Trump is aware of, is that the difference that he brought to running for president over other candidates

was he had been in the media spotlight for decades. And it is just something that is completely different. Now, the party is different in overall, how it deals with the national media. Republicans are very aggressive against national reporters at this point. Des Santos is disantis is disantis is disantis is disantis is disantis is disananananananananananananananananananananananananananan. the the the the the national media. Republicans are very aggressive against national reporters at this point. DeSantis has obviously co-opted that from Trump to. DeSantis does not need or crave national attention in the media the way Trump does. Trump is definitely aware, DeSantis is a threat. I think it is too soon to say what that looks like. Before I let you go, because

I mean it's an amazing book we could talk for hours about it. Thank you. Trump is a force unlike any other in American and maybe even world politics. He's inspired so many other countries. When I travel, people will have these strange opinions about him. I've never seen anything like it where other countries have opinions about Trump as if they vote for him as well, people on the ground. Genuinely, you don't really see that. And it feels like he has turned American politics forever. When you speak to him, does he have an acknowledgment of the volatility that he's dealing

with, or does he only think of it through the lens of Trump and entertainment and getting to the end goal? Or is there even a part of him that goes, ooh, if I do this incorrectly, I could blow up the country as a whole? I don't think there's a ton of the introspection that you just described. I think I think in in general he looks at everything in terms of how it impacts him and even when he is told that something is going bad even if he's conscious of it he will be aware that something is problematic for others but for whatever you know 3d chess in his head and it isn't literally 3D chess, but how he's gaming this out,

he won't allow himself to acknowledge that, because that would be a sign of weakness, or that would be giving somebody else a chit. And so even if that's a consideration, you're never going to hear him say that. You will hear him say, you know, he threw himself the to the the himself, he himself, he himself, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he thr thr thr thrown, he thr thr thrown, he thrown, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he, he thr thr thr thr thr thr thr thr thr thr thr thr thrown, to, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to try to solve the war between Russia and Ukraine to be a peacemaker. This is a classic Donald Trump move which is I'm gonna throw myself into this national situation that doesn't involve me at all. You know he did he was offering himself up as

Reagan's arms negotiator with the Soviet Union in the early 1980s. Well he actually did that. He literally was offering himself up this way. And so now, he he he he he he he he he to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to be the the to be the to be the to be the to be the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the Soviet Union in the early 1980s. Well, he actually did that. He literally was offering himself up this way. And so, now, obviously he was not taken up on it, but it's a little different when it's a former president doing this. And it's just in his head, the context just doesn't change, the moves are all the same. Every part of the book is interesting. You have notes from Donald Trump, for instance, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because,

Donald Trump, for instance, because you obviously send them to him, you know, say this is what I'm writing, do you have any comment or anything? Some of them are like him just going like fake news, he scribbled and he sent you. Others are him. There were several that said fake news. Some of my favorites were the ones where he's like, oh this is great. I never thought of it like this. It's I mean, there's a fascinating story about Rudy Giuliani taking the biggest dump in a private plane I've ever heard from Trump. It's a book that covers everything and honestly I hope a lot of people read it before the next election comes because I think it gives a lot of much needed insight. Maggie, thank you so much for joining me on the show. Appreciate you. Confidence man is out now wherever you get your books people. Maggie Haberman, we're going to take a quick break. We're going to take a quick break. We're going to try. Thank you so much for tuning in. But before we go, before we go, please consider supporting the Alejandra Foundation.

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