The Daily Show: Ears Edition - Alec Karakatsanis - Media Perpetuating Copaganda

Episode Date: August 8, 2022

“We’re constantly being told that there are all of these threats around us, but the threats that the media and the police and certain large corporations want us to be focused on are not the things that actually most determine our safety.” Civil Rights Corps founder and executive director Alec Karakatsanis discusses how liberal publications and politicians are shaping the narrative that supports police funding and “copaganda.”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. Please welcome. Alec Karakantanis. How are you? Thank you for having. Thank you so much. Welcome to the show. You have a really interesting story, Alec, because you know, you worked as a public defender.

You've worked in the justice system for a long time. You're part of many organizations that fight for people who are incarcerated unjustly or in a way where they can never find their way out of the system which is unjust in a different way. But a lot of your notoriety has come from your Twitter threads in how you break down the world, the way we see policing in the country and the way even liberal organizations, funny enough, are part of the problem. So let's start with that part. What made you decide to not be looking at right, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, to, to, you, to, to, to, the the, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, th, th, their, the, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi.. And, thi. And, thi.s, thr.s, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, thi.e, thi, th. What made you decide to not be looking at Fox News, not be looking at right-wing outlets, but rather say, no, New York Times,

LA Times, Washington Post, you need to change the way you talk about policing in America. I began this work because I care so deeply about safety, everyone's safety. I care about violence in our communities. And as I was going around the country, fighting these injustices, the cash bail system, police abuse, all over the country, we're running into obstacles. And one of the main obstacles was this status quo approach that many progressive people have. And it's not their fault, really, right? We're bombarded constantly in the media with what we call copaganda. And copaganda has really, I think, I think thia a thia a thia thia thna, I thia thia thia thia th a thi-a, I thi-a, I thi-a, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I th, I thi, I their, I thi, I th-a, I their, I their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thr-a, thr-a, thr-a. thr-a. their their thr-a. their, their, their, their, their, their, the really, I think, three main functions. The first function of Coppaganda is to narrow our conception of what safety means.

We're constantly being told that there's all of these threats around us, but the threats that the media and police and certain large corporations want us to be focused on are not the things that actually most determine our safety. So for example, you've seen all over the country talk conversations about retail theft or a wave of crime, right? But what you don't hear is about the epidemic of wage theft. Wage theft costs $50 billion every single year. Wage theft alone is about five times the value of all robbery, burglary, larceny, shoplifting, combined. And why are we not hearing about it?

I think it's because you have this law enforcement system, I use that system in quotes because police want us to call them law enforcement, but in reality they only enforce some laws against some people some of the time. So let's let's talk about that. You know there's a disconnect that feels like sometimes in the conversations we have in America because on the one hand, many people will agree that law enforcement needs overwatch. You know, many people will agree that law enforcement that isn't in some way regulated by an outside body will run rampant.

But at the same time, there are many communities who will still say, yes, but we still need some form of justice, we need some form of justice, we need some form of protection. and many th, th, th, many many many many many many many many many many many many many many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many many, many many, many many, many, many many, many many, many, many, many, many many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many people, many people, many people, many people, many people, thi people, many people, many people, many people, thi-a, many people, many people, many people, many still say, yes, but we still need some form of law enforcement. We need some form of justice. We need some form of protection. And this is something that almost goes beyond law enforcement as we know it in the world today. So what is an argument for a better world that doesn't subscribe to the notions of how people think law enforcement needs to exist now. Let's just start with some of the very basic facts that we know. If we care about safety, we care about harm, the number one thing we need

to do is address the actual root causes of violence and harm in our society. The actual root causes of harm in our society are not the fact that we're not policed enough, right? We have the most police of any society with most prisons,utions, courts, judges, probation, parole, prosecutors, judges and courts, if money spent on that made us safe, we would have the safest society in the history of the world. We don't. What actually matters for our safety is investing in things like reducing poverty, like safe, permanent support of housing, health care, public health.

I completely agree with you on that. You know, I'm a firm believer in that. I think it's the cause versus the symptom. There is a confusing element that I think often gets overlooked and it's the transition. You know, I see it when people talk about electric cars. I see it when people talk about policing. And it's the unfortunate truth that there th th th th th the the the the the the the the the the the their the the their the the the, the, the, the, the, thooiioliolioliolioloe, the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I I's, I I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's it when people talk about policing, and it's the unfortunate truth that there is always going to be a transition from one system to another. Unless there is a revolution that happens overnight, there needs to be a transition, what do you propose for the transition in between? Because

we do have police now. There are unions that are very powerful, that even the police say, hey, we can't say anything. the thrionionionionionionionion. thr. thr. thr. thr, we, we, thr, thr, thr, thr, thr, thr, thr, thr, thr, thr, thr, thr, thr, thr, thr, thr, thr, thr, thr-a, thr-a, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, their, their their their, their, their their, their, their, their, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thr, thr, thr, thr. thr. thr. throooooooooo. toe. toe. ta. tha. tha. toe. toe. thr. thr. their, their, how this is doled out. So what do you do for the interim? Because I think we can, you and I will agree on all of that. You know, those are long-term solutions. But in the short term, what do you think we can do to keep people safe and also find a way to move the system over? The good thing is that we know exactly what even in the short or medium term, is more funding for police, that's like climate science denial. There's overwhelming research that the programs that already exist, permanent supportive housing, safe consumption sites, violence interruption, restorative justice, investing in safe places for communities to gather art, school, music theater programs, early

child education, all of these things work and they work quickly. The problem is we don't have the political power. Often what happens is we identify, like in our work, these enormous injustices, like there are 500,000 human beings in cages right now in this country because they can't afford to pay cash to get out. We identify that injustice. And what happens? A lot of prominent establishment liberals they propose a reform. But the reforms that are being proposed

are backed by those same interests that created the current problem. And so we're constantly being hit with short and medium-term solutions that are reforms that actually exacerbate the problem. Let me give you an example. Take the bail system. If you care about the presumption of innocence, about people being taken away from their children because they can't make a monetary payment. Like millions of children are separated from their parents every single year.

You want to fix this problem. So enter the establishment Democrats. What do they do in most of these cities? They're trying to replace the cash bail system with privatized for-profit electronic monitoring, electronic incarceration. This is enormously profitable. There are billions of dollars to be made with private corporations who want to convert our system of mass incarceration to a system of mass electronic detention. I as I say I've always admired the fact that you you almost have a start-at-home approach. You know you aren't spending your time fighting with conservatives or Republicans who believe in that system.

You're challenging liberals, you're challenging progressive, you're challenging Democrats who claim this to actually follow through on it. So my question to you would then be, for the media specifically who you have a targeted focus on, you know, for the newspapers, for the publications. What do you think is a change that they could make overnight? Because that's completely in-house. What is something they could do right now that could present a clearer vision of where America should be? I think there are a few things. Number one, as I write in my newsletter recently, cover the things that are most threatening to our health and safety. Cover the hundred thousand

violations of the Clean Water Act every year that are killing children, that are killing families. Did you know that there are 100,000 deaths in the U.S. alone and 10 million across the globe, th., th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. their, as their, as to, as to th. to their, as to to to to to to to to to to to thi. thi. to to to to to thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the, the, the, their, their their their th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to to to to th. to th. to their th. their to to to to to to toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. their their their the. their th. Did you know that there are 100,000 deaths in the US alone and 10 million across the globe because of air pollution? That is five times the number of homicides in the US alone. Did you know how to tell, theaunds, te of thousands die from eviction and and predatory lending practices that put people in their teaugh, the are solvable problems. We know how to solve them, but the people in this country don't treat them urgently. And the reason is because the volume of news stories,

the sheer volume every single day is about shoplifting, it's about this isolated crime. It's about that isolated crime. And we're not talking about the threats to our existence, like the rise right-wing threat in this country to reproductive health. Did you realize that when, you know, I've been looking and studying very carefully how the media is covering Joe Biden's current request for 100,000 new cops. When I see liberal Democrats all over the country, both in newsrooms and in politics, talking about that this isn't a big deal and we need to pass 100 cops just to have a little bit of talking points and success for the midter term term term the mid term the mid th th th th th th thum thu thu. thu. thu. thu. thi thi. thi. thi. When thi. When thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. When thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. th. I. th. th. th. th. I, thi. thi. thi. to, to, to, to, to to toee. toe. to, toei. toea. toea. to. toe. toe. to. to to toe. thi. thi. thi. thing about that this isn't a big deal and we need to pass a hundred cops just to have a little bit of talking points and success for the midterms,

understand this. Voters who care about that and want a right-wing fascist force taking over our society are going to vote for the Republicans anyway. People who care about building and investing in communities are looking for leadership on things that we actually know work, like better schools, early childhood education, programs in communities run by the people who are most impacted by these problems. I will say this though. Before I let you go, I know I'm going to let you go. I will say this, so this is where I will disagree with you slightly.

Time and time again, you'll find when you actually look at voting blocks, people do not have access to that information, and so they do not vote accordingly. People will say, you know what, I just want crime in my neighborhood to go down. I feel like the Democrats are not serious about crime. I feel like, you know, we need better cops or more cops. I feel like because they maybe don't have the information, or they haven't been given any possible solution that isn't policing. And so I think there's a difficult disconnect that may go back to if they read about it, if they see it, they would think about it as a possibility.

So Alec, thank you so much for joining me on the show. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time. The Daily Show with Courtsies available now and you can sign up for his Pupper Daman News letter for free on subspe. The Daily Show with Cover Noa, Ears Edition. Watch the Daily Show Week Nights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central and the Comedy Central app. Watch full episodes and videos at the Daily Show. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram and subscribe to the Daily Show on YouTube

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