The Daily Show: Ears Edition - Banned Book Authors - Amanda Gorman, Jerry Craft, and Ibram X.Kendi

Episode Date: June 8, 2023

Amanda Gorman discusses reading her poem “The Hill We Climb” at President Biden’s inauguration. Jerry Craft discusses the irony of having an award-winning book banned for critical race theory, and the importance of creating books that inspire kids to feel represented and have hope. And Ibram X. Kendi and Nic Stone discuss their collaboration on "How to Be a (Young) Antiracist," a book that gives young people the tools to change the world.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Ditch the other hiring sites and let zip recruiter find what you're looking for, the needle in the haystack. Four out of five employers who post on zip recruiter get a quality candidate within the first day Try it for free at this exclusive web address zip recruiter.com slash zip recruiter the smartest way to hire You're listening to Comedy Central. Amanda Goldman welcome to the daily social distancing show. Thank you so much for having him. I'm super excited. I'm I'm the one who should be excited. I'm I'm the one. I'm the one. I'm the the the the the the the the the the the th th th the th welcome to the Daily Social Distancing Show. Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited. I'm the one who should be excited because I mean, 2021 kicked off with a bang. It's been a whirlwind for everybody, but I think for you more than most people, it has been extra whirlwindy, which is a word I trademarked you can use one day if you'd like to in one of your poems. You, you, you went from not just being thus thus th just th just th just th just th just to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th to to to th th to to to to to to to to to be to th thi to to to to be to to to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th th th th th th th the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to bea.a.a. to be to be to be to be to be to be to be their to use one day if you'd like to in one of your poems. You went from not just being notable because you read a poem the youngest ever inaugural poet, but also because of what the poem meant to people, because of the inspiration behind it,

because of how people felt after they heard what you did. What has it been like for you? Just in this little period since the inauguration, what has your world been like? My world has been crazy. I mean, it's been turned upside down. I mean, when I was writing the poem, I knew it was a historic moment. I knew it was an important moment, which is why I wanted to do just service,

but I wasn't really paying attention to the ways in which my own personal life might change. So I went, I did my Niagara poem, I walked off and just kind of expected everything to be the same, and then I remember trying to open my Instagram just to, you know, look at other people's posts and all of my apps have just crashed because of all the followers that were just, you know, flocking to my channel. So it's been amazing and I'm still kind of absorbing it all like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like a like a the the the the to the to to to, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the way.. I. I, I, the the the the their the the the the the the the thea., the the thea., thea., thea., thea., thea., thea. Ia. Ia. Ia. I'm still kind of absorbing it all like a sponge. The poem, The Hill We Climb, wasn't just momentous because of the day it was performed on. I think what made it special was that you incorporated up until that day the things that so many people were feeling about America. If you don't mind, walk me through why you felt it was important to write a poem for that moment and then even still be writing the poem on the actual day that you were delivering it.

Right, exactly. Well for me, I mean, I was writing it and trying to find a way to encapsulate what had gone on over the past, you know, four years and even looking more expansively than that, and then, you know, we had the insurrection at the Capitol. So for me, it was trying trying trying trying trying the-it it was thi thi, it was thin-in-in-in-in-in-in, it was thin, it was thin, it was thin, it was thin, it was thin, I thin, I was thin, I was thi, I was thin, I was thi, I was to to to to thin, I was th thi, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I th. I thi. I thi. I was thin, I was thin, I was thin, I was thin, I was thin, I was thin, I was th. th thin, th th th thin, th th thin, th th that, that, that, I was, I was that, I was trying to say, we've had this reminder of the ways in which democracy is both fragile and also enduring and how it is to defend it. And I think a lot of times in cultures, we think of the ways in which we can cleanse ourselves with water. I think of the ways that we can cleanse ourselves with words, meaning that this poem was an opportunity to kind of resanctify, repurify, and reclaim not just the capital building, but American democracy and what it stands for. A pretty high ask of myself, but you know, that's what I do when I showed up and I rolled

up my sleeves, and that was the aim of the poem, to use words, to try to go back to the quintessence of what America can be. I think you achieved you that you you you you that you that you thia thia thia that a thousand times over, and it showed in how people responded. I mean, consider it from this perspective, and you may not, but this is how I saw it. I went, on a day when Joe Biden's inaugurated, Kamala Harris is stepping into the role as VP, Lady Gaga's performing, Jennifer Lopez is performing. You were the thing. You were were competing, you were competing, you were competing, you were competing, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, the competing, you, the competing, the competing, you, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, th. And, th, th, th, th, and, and, th, th, and, and, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, that, that, that, that, that, toooooooooooo.a, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, you were the thing that people were looking. You were the trending thing.

I mean, it was like you competing with like Bernie Sanders's meetings was basically it. That must be, do you take a moment to go like, man, this is surreal. That is so surreal, especially because my friends, they're so funny. And you know, they come for blood. So they were texting me like, well, they. they. thi and they, thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. toeeeea. thi. thi. thi. theeeeei. thi. thi., well, Joe Biden did a good job opening up for Amanda Gorman. You know who won that inauguration. I was like, you know, it's not a competition. You know, it's not a fight of who wins the inauguration. They're like, but you did. And so I think for me, it was so daunting to be on a stage, you know, there's Michelle Obama to my right and Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton and what happened. So to to to to to to to to to to the to the to the to the to to the, the, the, to the, to the, tho. tho. tho. tho. thoom, the thoom, thoom, thoom, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, th.. th. It, th. It, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, th. It and what happened. So the figures that have been, you know, mythologized for me

and to find myself not only being in that space, but owning it and claiming it was, I think, the highlight of my career. I believe that you are slated to perform at the Super Bowl. That is correct? Yes. I didn't understand the juxtaposition of this right now, right? Poetry at the Super Bowl. You understand the levels you've made it to,

where they were like, this person is so good that we have to bring her to do poetry at the Super Bowl. Right. Literally, that went over my head to the today. Because I knew about the Super Bowl and the inauguration around the same time, and it was like there was not space in my head for both. Like I kept it being like, I gotta write that inauguration poem. And my team was like, there's this little thing called the Super Bowl,

which you should also keep in mind. And so, you know, it's very rare, and I would say, if not, you know, an extant possibility that a poet will be at something like the Super Bowl. It's just nothing I have really heard about before. And so, the moments I strive for in my lifetime, which is to bring poetry into the spaces that we least expect it so that we can fully kind of grapple with the ways in which it can heal and kind of resurrect us.

Let's talk a little bit about poetry. I mean, it feels like poetry like some art forms has its highs and then it has moments where it disappears. Why do you think we should never forget poetry? What is it about poetry that you feel society needs to hold on to? Well what I always say is poetry stands as a great reminder of the past that we stand on and the future that we stand for. I do not think it is any, you know, coincidence that when America seeks to kind of consecrate its ideals, it does so through poetry. I don't think it's a incidence that we see a poem at the base of the Statue of Liberty

as opposed to like a scientific formula or even a prosaic paragraph, you know, why is it that we call forth poetry in those moments? Or even point out to students, you know, when you're out of Black Lives Matter March and you see, you know, banners that say they buried us but they didn't know we were seeds. That's poetry at the fourth racial justice movement. And so poetry, because it's inherently rebellious in its nature, I think it really becomes the language and the rhetoric of the people. We get to kind of co-opt it and put our own play on it. And what's more, we get to use those words to realize our thoughts and transform those thoughts into actions.

You have a journey ahead of you that I think nobody can predict, which is exciting, and you've had a journey that has been unpredictable. You know, you've talked about it, you know, growing up in a family with a single mom who was raising yourself and your twin sister and your brother as well, and how you just fought to achieve. My question to you then is, what are you aspiring to seeing that you've basically done it all, I mean, in the past few weeks? Right, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and that, and that, and that, and that, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thr-a, thr-a.a. thrown, the, thea.a.a. thea. their, their, their, their, their basically done it all, I mean, in the past few weeks? Right. That's a great question.

I mean, I'm really taking that time to kind of sit back and think and be like, well, wow, that was it, kind of what's next. And for me, I don't think it's about kind of beating my last thing or even competing against myself. I hear that a lot of thing that's fine for other people. I'm not necessarily fighting against myself or competing or contesting against anything I've done, but I want to keep on the trajectory that I started for myself. I never want to kind of dally or diverge from that. And for me, that just means using my poetry to touch and heal and impact as many people as possible. And that can be at the inauguration, the Super Bowl,

it can be in a living room, it's often in classrooms and other students. And so that's what's next for me on the more resume tick thing that I always have to mention when I'm on talk shows. I'm like, I have three books coming out. So there's also that be reading the books. Thank you so much, Amanda Goldman, and congratulations on all your success. Thank you so much.

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in the haystack. Four out of five employers who post on Zip Recruiter within the first day. Try it for free at this exclusive web address.ziprecruiter.com slash zip. Again, that's zip recruiter.com slash zip. Zip recruiter, the smartest way to hire. It's been said that nice guys finish last. But is that really true? I'm Tim Harford, host of the Cautionary Tales podcast, and I'm exploring that very question.

Join me for my new mini-series on the art of fairness. We'll travel from New York to Tahiti to India on a quest to learn how to succeed without being a jerk. We'll examine stories of villains undone by their villainy and monstrous self-deviring egos, and will delve into the extraordinary power of decency. We'll face mutiny on the vast Pacific Ocean, blaze a trail with a pioneering skyscraper, and dare to confront a formidable empire. The art of fairness on cautionary tales.

Listen on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen tales. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. author and illustrator. His new book is called School Trip. Please welcome Jerry Craft. Yeah. Brother Crack. Brother Crack. Yes, sir. First off, shots out to the tie. I see what you're doing with the tie. Got the little, got some of the black peanut characters on that tie. Yeah. I have to represent Franklin here.

What did you read growing up? I'm always interested about that with authors. What got you into the habit of reading? Because I was assigned a lot a a a a a a the books a the books a the books a the books a lot a lot of a lot of reading? Like, because I was assigned a lot of books in school that I feel like I shouldn't have been reading. It was like Baywolf, Call it a while. Thompson, it just white people running hands. And you didn't see yourself in that?

I didn't know. I did not see myself in those books. No, I went from Dr. Seuss to Marvel Comics to nothing. to to to to to to to th. th. to th. th. th. th. I, th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, that, I thi, thi, thi, I was, I was, I was, I was, I th. I th. I th. I thi, I tho, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I, I th. I, I, I th. I, I th. I th. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm thin, I'm thin, I'm thin, I'm thin, I'm thin, I'm thin, I'm thin, I shouldn't thin, I shouldn't thin, I shouldn't thin, I shouldn't thin, I shouldn Comics to nothing. I hated to read. Reading was a punishment for me. And it's the same thing. I didn't see myself. What am I going to read? Tom Sawyer, Huck Finn? Like, that wasn't mean. I mean, but Tom Sawyer had the n-word in it, so representation. Right, so we got some representation. It wasn't great representation, but we got representation. So then if Marvel Comics and comic books activated your curiosity for literacy, what is it about graphic novels that we can do to help that with today's children? The first thing I think we have to explain to some people is the term graphic novel does

not mean a novel with graphic content. And that, you think that's not real, but there are people that think that. So they're like, I don't want my kid to read a graphic novel. It's a novel with graphic content. And they're like, no, that's not what it is. So we might have to change the name to just a big old comic book. That might make it a little better. I think with some of the education rates that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's rates in this country, that's probably a good idea,

brother. Now, this book that you have, school trips, a wonderful, wonderful book. It's about, you know, Black Child out there doing this thing? It's been banned in a bunch of places. First off, congratulations on being banned. Thank you. Congratulations. I know that must feel awful. Congratulations on being banned. Thank you. Congratulations.

I know that must feel awful. I know that is a terrible feeling to write a book and then somebody go, oh, your book is too good. We can't let nobody read it. What was your thoughts and feelings when you first found out about that? I was disappointed. I was sad for the kids. Because, so this book, this is my first book, New Kid. It's the first graphic novel, only graphic novel,

ever to win the Newberry Medal. Right? Right? It was the second book to win the Newbury and the Credit Scott King. Right? And the only book ever to win those two and the Kirkus Prize. Right? Right? So not the only black book, the only book, not the only black book. So then how do we get to that place?

How do we go from a book, the same character in both books? This is the third book with this character. So the first book, Award, Award, award, this book, people go CRT. How is that classification even fair with the literature that you've been creating? Fair? You are funny, fair? I mean, like that's the point of it. You know, it's like from a kid who hated the read and was told that comics would rot his brain.

To grow up, you know, born in Harlem, grew up in Washington Heights, and to have this book, which should be an after school special. My life should be the after school special. A reluctant reader who grows up to, I mean, there's a movie in the works with this book. Okay? Okay. But do you have a producing partner?

I know how to read? I do. Get money, we'll talk about that after. That after that after that after that after that after that after that after that after that after that after that after that after that after that after that after that after that. We'll that. We'll that. We'll th. We'll th. We'll th. We'll th. We'll th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. this book. this book. this book. this. this. this. this. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their their th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to, to, thi. toee. thi. to, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th? I know how to read. I like reading. I do. Get money. We'll talk about that after the show. But it's like 13 different languages. So they can read it in Albanian, Romanian, Greek. They just can't read it in Texas. Ooh. Ooh.

Now, the book is about, this book's school trip. Right. You know, some kids who th th th th th th th the book the book th th, th, the book is about, this book's school trip, is about, you know, some kids who decide to travel over to France and they take a school trip. Now, as a product of Birmingham Public Schools, I cannot relate to traveling out of the country at any point. There was no international field trips. Like in Alabama, you go to three places.

You go to civil rights. Right. They take you down to Montgomery to see where they don't pass laws that help civil rights. Right. And then they let you visit a cave. Right. That's it. The Soto Cave. It's a nice cave. But where have you traveled like? to be able to write about children traveling beyond the horizon. What were your travels like and your journeys as a child? As a child, it was all local stuff that my dad and I used to go. When I graduated from college, which I know you're trying to ban, but for those of you, you know, it was good. We just need to buy one free coupon. We just need something for me.

No, it was 70 years old his first time on the plane, right? Because we didn't think that we could travel, right? And then we went every year to a different place for 20 years. When my son's graduated from college, I took them to Paris because again you don't think that you can do those things. Right? And so I make the books that I wish that I had when I was a kid that makes kids readers, that gives them hope because you don't even know the things that you can hope for, right? And that's So I read a review online. They told me not to read reviews, but I did anyway. And this woman literally wrote, I'm not sure if my largely poor, largely African American

students will be able to relate to this book. So I'm like, but a kid, you're saying a kid can relate to a kid who goes to wizard school, flies on a broom and waves a wand, but you can't picture these black kids going to Paris, so you're not going to let them see the book. That's worse than being banned. How do we get people also to understand? because to me, the issue with CRT as well, I th, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, that's worse than being banned. How do we get people also to understand, because to me the issue with CRT as well, I think

it's been twisted into this idea that these are black authors writing about black stuff specifically for black people. How do we get people to also understand that these books are for everyone to read? It's not about some sort of colored only section on a bookshelf. These books are about the human experience. So how will we be able to get more people to understand that? There's a kid I just saw this on Tick Tock. So it's a ninth grader, nine-year-old third grader in Escambia County, Florida, goes up in front of a school board, right? He should be home playing Xbox, right? In front of a

school board talking about this book, he says this book was a good reminder that we are all equal and we should treat people with kindness and respect because you never know what someone is going through. Thank you for everything that you do. We appreciate your brother. Finding great candidates to hire can be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. You might get a lot of resumes, but not enough candidates with the right skills or experience. But not with Zip Recruiter finds amazing candidates for you fast. And right now you can try it for free at Zip Recruiter. dot com slash Zip Recruiters smart technology identifies top talent for

your roles quickly. Immediately after you post your job, Zip Recruiters powerful matching technology starts showing you qualified people for it, and you can use Zip Recruiter's pre-written invite to apply message to personally reach out to your favorite candidates and encourage them to apply sooner. Ditch the other hiring sites and let Zip Recruiter find what you're looking for, the needle in the haystack. Four out of five employers who post on Zip Recruiter within the first day. Try it for free at this exclusive web address.ziprecruiter.com slash zip. Again, that's zip recruiter.com slash zip.

Zip recruiter, the smartest way to hire. It's been said that nice guys finish last. But is that really true? I'm Tim Harford, host of the Cautionary Tales podcast, and I'm exploring that very question. Join me for my new miniseries on the Art of Fairness. We'll travel from New York to Tahiti to India on a quest to learn how to succeed without being a jerk. We'll examine stories of villains undone by their villainy and monstrous self-devaring egos, and we'll delve into their villainy, and monstrous, self-deviring egos, and will delve into the extraordinary power of decency.

We'll face mutiny on the vast Pacific Ocean, blaze a trail with a pioneering skyscraper, and dare to confront a formidable empire. The art of fairness on cautionary tales. Listen on the I-Heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. My next two guests, they have collaborated on a new book for young readers called How to Be a Young Anti-Racist. Want you please welcome Dr. Ibrahim X. Kendi and Nick Stone.

Thank you. So how to be a young anti-racist, that means you're already banned in Florida. So, how to be a young anti-racist? That means you're already banned in Florida. So, it's funny when we talk about race, because we live in a country that the Congress and Senate voted for a Juneteenth bill. But we're the same nation that doesn't want to talk about slavery. They'll have Martin Luther King and Robert E. Lee on the same days.

So I think when it comes to racism, I think that a lot of people believe that if they're not actively saying the n-word or doing, saying bigot things, that means they're not racist. So how can we start a conversation about being anti-racism when you're not quite sure how to quantify racism? We are, but I don't think a lot of people are. And I think that's the very point, because if you're not doing anything to challenge all of the injustice and all of the inequity in our society, then what happens? It persists. So therefore you're reinforcing it's you are reinforcing it's you're reinforcing it's you're reinforcing their their thuofficing it's reinforcing thuofficing it's reinforcing thiiii, you're reinforcing thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thoes. thi. thi. thi. thi. that's that's that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. That's, th. That's, th. That's, th. th. th. That's th. th. th. That's th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the. the. that's the. that's the. the. I's the. I's the. I's the. I's the. I's the being racist. And so we're encouraging people to actively try to dismantle the structure, including young people.

But what is their incentive? Like what would they be in? Nick, what is there? If this system is working for you or not, it doesn't cause you any rough? You can sleep at night. Why would you want to change the system that seems to be going just as you intended. But is it actually working for you? Well, a lot of people, yeah. It seems to be. It clearly is not working for even one of this. Yes, I think, for me, it's all about children, right? Like, even though this is a system that have people that are different from them in positions of power, they're going to be in trouble.

Yeah but then they try to remake the world. You see that. Literally, we're a nation that is run by the Flintstones and the Jetsons and the Fultzones are winning. You have to understand that. I don't th don't th instance, I don't believe white people, a lot of white people are actively racist. But I do believe that the notions of white supremacists, they don't agree with their methods, but they agree with their goal, which is to keep white people in charge. And so if that is the premise, then what incentive seriously would there be to make these changes that only destabilizeize theyliziziziziziziziziziziziziziziziziziziziziziziziziziz the changes the changes the changes their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their th. th. th. they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they're they're they're they're they're they're they're to to to to to to make, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the. I their the. I their th changes that only destabilize what you know works for you. I think one of the things we've been showing in studying racism is that it's actually harming

white people too. It's not harming them at the level, it's harming people of color. But there are actually white people who are dying of police violence. They're not dying at the level of black and brown people, but more white people are dying of police violence in this country than other countries. More white people are incarcerated in this country than other countries. More white people are struggling to vote in this country compared to other countries. There were five million about poor whites in 1860 whose poverty was directly connected to the enslavement of black people.

But I think a lot of white people don't get this. When you pour, you a niggot chew. You are. You are. You are. You are. You are. You are. I don't think people understand.

No, they don't. What hurts me, what is good for you. And I think that, but there is that thing, where, but, but, but, but, but, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, tho, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the, too, the, too, too, the, too, too, too.e, too.e, too, to, to, that but there is that thing where you know people will give their last dime to keep things a certain way as long as it hurts you like look at what happened with the Obamacare Act a lot of those people in those poor states are being hurt by that but they don't care as long as you are. Yeah and but the sense of optimism is in what you you said earlier children you have not mine is the the their. their. their. their. th. th. th. th. th. that. that. th. th. that. th. that thi. that that thi. that that that that that that that that that that that that that that to thi. thi. to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. I I I I th. th. I I I th. I th. I I th. I I th. I I I I th. I I I th. th. I I I I I is th. th. th. th. I I I I is th. I is thi. I is thi. I is thi. I is thi. I was. I was. I'm thi. I'm thin. I'm thin. te. te. te. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. te. te, that whole different thing, but, um, but in our children, we can see the potential of things that we hope to never, that we hope we could realize probably never well.

So that is an angle, I think that it's probably substantive. Yeah, I think when it comes to children, I have two of my own, and it's important for me that they enter a world that they feel empowered to change, which is why we wrote this book, right? So Dr. Kendi wrote his memoir years ago, and I latched onto it, slid into his deans, and asked if I could do a young reader's version, because it's important that young people have the tools.

I get so many kids who are asking, what do I do, how do I help I to help to help to help to help to help to help to help to help to help to help to help to help to help to help to help to help to help to help to help to help, what do I do, how do I help, what do I change, how can I get into this fight and do something about it. And so creating a text like How to Be a Young Anti-Racist, we're giving them information where they're learning these definitions or learning what racism actually is. Give me an example of what racism actually is. So racism is a system of ideas,

so you have racist ideas, and they're made to keep inequities going, right? So the whole purpose of a book like How to Be a Young Anti-Racist is to give young people terms that we can all agree on, that way we know what we're standing against. Like what? Like racism. Having a term at definition for racism helps them see, okay, this is what we're trying to fight. Because one of the things that happens is people who have historically been racist refused to define that term. Of course.

Why would you? Because it allows them to exonerate themselves consistently and constantly. And even young people, therefore, don't know what it is. So they can't even assess themselves and guide themselves. How would they know? We have a lot of people who are raised by people, the people, the people, the people, their, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th, the, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, to, to, to, to, to, to, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, to, to, because, to, because, because, to, because, because, because, to, because, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So, to.au, to.au.c.c.au.c.au.au.c. We.c.c. toe. toe. toe. toe. too, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why. toe people were moving into. Right? That was that was a predicate. We're gonna move out of places that black people are moving into. But those are the people who have the conversation with the people who are now having the conversation with the people. So if they don't think the thing that they did was racist, that's

that's a level of oblivious that you can't you can't quite quite quantifyiqui q q q q q q q q q q q q q q quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite quite qi, you know, the heartbeat of being racist is denial. And this denial is consistent and constant and insidious. You know, it does give me hope when I see people, like your book beat my book on the New York Times bestsellers, this time. Get the fiddled to say. Get the f-a' said. No, I'm just going. And it's interesting because it came along at a time and you had written it a good while back but it resurfaced when the George Floyd protest was coming on. There really seemed a moment and that seemed these inflexing points when we can generally, well people are really open to listen but the problem is it's so fast.

You can only get attention so fast and then we're on to the next thing. And I think that's not even a purposeful. I think it it it it it it it is just it is just it's just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just the the problem it's just the problem it's just the problem it's just the problem. their their their their their their their their their their their the problem their their to their their their to their to to their their to their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. we're on to the next thing. And I think that's not even a purposeful, I think it's just the function of how we live. But if you could say a substantive thing that people could do every day, like in practice, every day, where they could be an example, because every time somebody says something, that somebody deems hurtful, they automatically stop. I don't want to hear it anymore. I I to hear it to hear it anymore I I I to hear it anymore, I to hear it anymore, I to hear it anymore, I their their their their, I their, I'm th, I'm th, I'm th, I'm th, I'm th, I'm th. I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th th th thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. I'm thi. I'm just just, thi. I'm just just, thi. thi. thiiii. thi. thi. thi. thi. th I'm tired of this already. We were a slave of 400 years, but Jim Crowman around 50 years, we're like trying to not be a slave as not, we haven't had to put as much Elberg groups of that.

But books like this and having conversations where people don't turn off are really the crux of what we need to be doing. And for young people it's got to be easier to learn a love language, right? It's got to be easier to learn. And what do I, because I get angry. Like when black people do it, it's called anger, when white people do it's called righteous indignation. But it's really hard to come from a place of anger and try to be, try to cheat somebody something. So I think, at least on me, the onus has to be lowering the temperature and listening, right? Yeah, and I mean, look, the book is really all about first turning inward.

I think part of the issue is that we don't do a good job of humanizing ourselves. We don't give ourselves the space to be angry, we don't give ourselves the space space to space space space space space space space space space space space space space space space space space space space space space space to have to have to have to have space space space space space space space space space space space space space to have to have to have to have to have to have to have the space space space space to have space space to have space to have space to have space to have space space the space to be sad. We don't give ourselves the space to have unpopular opinions, right? Like we do, we're all you do. But even that, you know, the fact that you're like, I'm angry and I don't, you know, I don't know how I feel about being angry. It makes sense that we're angry. So taking the time to look inward and figure out, the beauty of how to be an anti-racist, the adult book, was that you get Ebrom's whole story, where he is very open about the racist ideas that he was holding. So taking that and distilling it down for young people so that they can see, oh dang,

this thing that I'm thinking is probably a little racist. We had an event last night in Atlanta, and our team moderator, that was was that was that was that was that was tha, tha, tha, tha, the tha, tha, thatter, thath... thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the thi, the the thea, and the the, the, and the the thean, thean, thean, thean, the, the, and the, and thea, and thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, and thi. thi. thi. thi. the thi. thi. thi. the the thi. the thi. the the the thi. the thi. thi. the, and the, and thean. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. toean. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. t book and it pointed out to me all of the ways that I have racist ideas and it made me feel away about myself. What am I supposed to do? So then having that self-compassion where you can see, okay, yes, I am a product of a racist environment. I probably have some racist ideas. Taking the time to give yourself some grace, you'll give other people some grace. And that's how we kind of like get to a the the the the the tha tha tha tha tha tho tho tho the the the thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi thi thi thi a thi a thi a thi a thi a thi a thi a th of like get to a point where we're working together to dismantle things. At least hearing each other. The thing that's so frustrated for me is our stories tend to start in the middle.

Like we were something before this. And our story seemed to start in the middle. So, and it's just like even what's going on in Florida, you don't even want even want even want even want even want even want even want even want to learn to learn to learn to learn to learn to learn to learn to learn to us to learn our history. Like there was a time when the slave people couldn't learn. And now it's illegal for us to learn about enslaved people. So it just... You're spitting more. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. And you would have heard that had you not beat me on the New York Times bestseller list. And I think I

think that we have a lot to learn about how things work and and to really have constructive conversations because it's so much more fulfilling to me to shout at somebody but it doesn't really accomplish anything and I'm really very proud that you write books like this and I think the younger you start I mean you got to not be an anti-racist baby you have the babies the babies the babies the babies. the babies. the babies. to the babies. the baby. the baby. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I'm thi. I'm th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I' th. I' th. I' th. I' th. I' th. I' th. I' th. I' th. I' th. I' th. I'-I. I'-I. I'-I. I'-I. I'-I. I'-I'-I'-I'-I'-I'-I'-I'-I'-I'-I'-I'-I'-I'-I'-I'-I'-I'-I'-I'e. I'm the. the. I'm the. I'm the. I'm the. I'm the. I'm the. I'm the. I you write books like this. And I think the younger you start, I mean, you gotta not be an anti-racist baby. You have the babies, too? You have the baby? Yeah.

What's the f-fix is a baby gonna do? Like, yeah? Hey, look, you learn it somewhere. You either learn to love people or Universe by searching the Daily Show, wherever you get your podcasts. Watch the Daily Show weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Fairmount Plus. This has been a Comedy Central podcast.