The Daily Show: Ears Edition - Being Black in The Fashion Industry | Beyond the Scenes

Episode Date: September 3, 2023

Virgil Abloh, Zelda Wynn Valdes, and Stephen Burrows are iconic and influential Black designers, but the fashion industry has had a long history of racism, classism, and nepotism. Host Roy Wood Jr. chats with Daily Show producer, Chelsea Williamson, CEO of Harlem’s Fashion Row, Brandice Daniel & Editor in Chief at The Cut, Lindsay Peoples about the influence Black culture has had on fashion and the hurdles of breaking into the industry. They also discuss how Lindsay’s 2018 article, “What It’s Really Like to Be Black and Work in Fashion” opened the door for conversations about racism in the industry.   Original air date: September 27, 2022See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Finding great candidates to hire can be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. You might get a lot of resumes, but not enough candidates with the right skills or experience. But not with Zip Recruiter. Zip Recruiter finds amazing candidates for you fast. And right now you can try it for free at Zip Recruiter's smart technology. Sip Recruiters' smart technology identifies to the talent for your roles quickly. Immediately after you post your job, zip recruiters powerful matching technology starts showing you qualified people for it, and you can use zip recruiters pre-written invite to apply message to personally reach out to your favorite candidates and encourage them to apply sooner.

Ditch the other hiring sites and let zip recruiter find what you're looking for, the needle in the haystack. Four out of five employers who post on zip recruiter get a quality to to the quality the quality the quality the quality the quality the quality the quality to to to the to the to to to the to to the to to to the to to to to to to the to to to to to to to to to to to to tip. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their. tip. tip. tip. tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tip. tip. t needle in the haystack. Four out of five employers who post on zip recruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free at this exclusive web address. Zip Recruiter.com slash zip. Again that's zip recruiter.com slash zip recruiter the smartest way to hire. John Stewart here. Unbelievably exciting news. My new podcast the weekly show. We're going to be talking about the election. Economics. Ingredient to bread to bread to bread to bread to bread to bread to bread to bread to bread to bread to bread to bread to bread to bread to bread to bread to bread to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. the th. the the th. the the th. th. th. the the th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the the the. thea. thea. thea. thea. thi. thi. thi. thi. the going to be talking about the election, economics, ingredient to bread ratio, on sandwiches. Listen to the Weekly Show with John Stewart,

wherever you get your podcast. You're listening to Beyond the Scenes. The podcast that goes deeper into segments and topics that originally aired on the Daily Show with Trevor Noah. Like, this is what, this podcast is, right? Look, you know how you get dressed to go somewhere, right? You look at the mirror and your outfit is nice, it's sharp, and then you think to yourself, you know what, maybe I need to add a watch and a belt and some shoes, some earring.

You know what, let me put one of them lepricon belt buckles on my shoes too. And boom, your outfit goes to the next level. Now you're in magazines, you're on best dress list, you're flying private, no more commercial. That's what this podcast is. I'm Roy Virginia, and speaking of fashion, today we're talking about a CP time segment that we did that celebrated black trailblazers in fashion. Give me the clip. Normally when we think about black fashion, we think about church hats so big, they block

your view of Jesus. What we think about those suits that Steve Harvey wears that hog all the buttons. Leave some buttons for the rest of us, Steve. But in actuality, the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world that that that that that that that that that that that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that's that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, thi. thi. the, the, the, the, the, the, theat, theck.eck. theat, tha.eck. theck. theat, theat, the. thea. the. th Steve. They're keeping my clothes together with staples. But in actuality, the world of fashion has been filled with influential and iconic African-American designers. Like our first trailblazer, Zelda wind Valdez, who was one of the first designers whose clothing accented women's curves.

Before her, women's fashion covered up their figures with big-ass skirts the size of a carnival cruise ship. Women would get lost, just bending over to tie their shoes. Zelda's curve-flawning designs were so popular that Hugh Hefner asked her to design the iconic outfit for the Playboy bunnies. Our last designer brings us to the modern day. Virgil Ablow, the first African-American artistic director at Louis Vuitton, and driving force behind this decade's streetwear movement.

He made high-end fashion take streetwear seriously. You know, fancy logos, t-shirts, chunky sneakers, hoodies, pretty much anything you're not supposed to wear to a funeral, unless you and the deceased had beef. Rest in peace, Spencer. Ms. Jordans is stepping on your grave. Right now, I'm joined by Daily Show producer Chelsea Williamson. A little later in the show, we're going to be joined by two black women that are doing the damn

thing in the world of fashion, but it was not an easy role for them to get there. We're going to talk to to them them them them them the their their their their their their their to to there. We're going to talk to them all about their journey. But first, Chelsea, we've got to talk to you about this segment, how we put it together. How are you doing today? I'm doing good. How are you, Roy? I'm pretty good. I don't know why I'm qualified to to agree with me. Goodness gracious. You do a lot of the research for a lot of the CP time segment. So you're shouldered with, you know, deciding what lives and what dies in terms of what's relevant in the piece.

But let's just get to the impetus of this piece. What inspired this piece in the building? So this piece was actually pitched by one of my co-workers Madeline Coons and she was thinking about this in 2018 when the MCA had a exhibit on Virgil Ablow and she really wanted to go. So she kind of pitched as an idea and was like we should talk more about black fashion icons and then on the back end I came in and pitched the idea for the CP time on black fashion models so it was kind of a two-hander. So you know in the piece we touch touch wea wea wee we wee we touch wee we touch wee we wee we wee we touch the the touch the piece we tha the piece we tha tha the piece we tha the the the the the the the the the the the th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their their their th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. te. teeeeeeat. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. the. the. the. I the. I th. I th. for the CP time on black fashion models. So it was kind of a two-hander. So, you know, in the piece, we toup on a few trailblazers,

like Zelda Wynne Valdez, Stephen Burrows, and the late Virgil Ablow, of course, the aforementioned. But why did you all choose to feature those designers in particular? Yeah, so I feel like all of them were vanguard the the their So Zelda is interesting because she was embracing women's curves at a time when that wasn't quite the norm in fashion. Stephen Burroughs is like one of the great designers of the, you know, the disco era, was big in Studio 54, was making these like danceable and just like very wearable clothes that were iconic. And then Virgil Ablow obviously is the first black designer to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their their their their their their their their. I I th. I thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, the, the, the, th. I I, th. I, th. Wea, th. I I th. I th. I th. Wea, th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I, th. I I, th. I, th. I I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I was, thi. I was, I was, I'm, I'm, the, the, the, theeem. I'm, theeememeeeeeeeemeeeeem. And, theeme. And, thee. And,, you know, Virgil Ablow obviously is the first black designer

to helm Louis Vuitton's menswear. So I think all three of them are vanguard's in their specific areas. They're all pioneers. And they all represented three very distinct eras in fashion, and especially in black fashion. But are there other designers that played a big role? We have those big the the the the the the the the the thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thiol- thiol- thiolk, thiolk, thiolk, thiol- thiol- thiol- thiol- thus, thus, thus, thi, thus, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiauiauiiauiauiauia, thi, thi, thi, there other designers that played a big run? We have those big three. The issue we have at the Daily Show, of course,

is always time. We are a 30-30-35-minute program. So we only have, especially for CP time, we only have three to five minutes to really get into anything. So the battle is always, do we tell you a little bit about a lot of people or do we tell you a lot about a few people? So who were some of the other black designers that played a big role in the industry? One, and two, what kind of snubs did you find in your research? You know, like the people who weren't always properly credited for the thing that they, that eventually, you know, caught fire? Yeah, so, I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I, I, I the the the the their, I their, I their, their, their, their, their, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the, thi, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th.. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. they, th. th. th. the, the, the, the. to, to, to, the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the thing that they that eventually, you know, caught fire.

Yeah, so I mean there was a lot. There's a lot of black designers who weren't given their proper due. One that immediately comes to mind is Anne Lowe, who actually designed Jackie Kennedy's wedding dress and then on the day that she was asked to bring it in, you know, before the wedding, they made her use a service entrance. And she literally had to tell them, the dress comes in with me, I made this dress, and Jackie actually didn't give her credit for the dress in the end. And then on top of like being like, you're also black, so now you have to suddenly use a service entrance, even though she'd actually been working for the own, the, Jackie's family for a th.. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. So, th. So, th. So, th. So, th. So, th. So, th. th. So, th. thi, thi, thi, thin, the the the th. And, the th. And, thr-in, their, the, the, th. And, th. And, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, the, the, the the th. And, the the the the th. And, the thee, they. And, they. And, they. And, the the toe. And, the the the the the thee, the the th. And, couple of years, like dress making and such. So, you know, she was snubbed and then it was later kind of found out that she designed the dress.

But there's a lot of other, you know, people as well, I think of like Elizabeth Cleckley, who was, you know, the Civil War like dress maker and she dressed Mary Todd Lincoln, and also did like a scandalous memoir, which got everybody up in arms in the 1860s. But you know, and then you come into now, you start thinking about streetwear, you think of somebody like Dapper Dan, who was literally shut down multiple times, including by now, you know,

Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor on one of the raids of Indy was doing against him. So you have people like that, and I think, and streetwear, there's so many black designers in streetwear like Walker wear and then just all the stylists that came out of that era. And even if you didn't have black people designing the outfits themselves, we were typically remixing and making things more cool like Tommy Hill figure during that time, polo Ralph Lauren during that time, even Nautica, like Nodica was very much like a black brand for a minute. You name it all in my joints from the 90s. Yeah, yeah. The only thing you need to say right now is Duckhead and I get up this chair.

Shoot, cross colors, foo, like all of that during the 90s. Like all of that during though they may not have been designers, I think especially during the 60s and the 50s, a lot of the girl groups and a lot of the boy bands, they made their own clothes. Like the Temptations, Eddie Kendrick's who was a member of the Temptations actually made their like iconic purple suits and he made a lot of their suits. And I feel like it's not often talked about but, thi. th, but, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, their, their, their, their, their, their, th, their, th, their, their, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. T. The, th. T. T. T. T. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, they. And, they. I. I's, tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. te. te. te. te. te. And, to be dressing them? You know, you actually think about it, and it's like, you have a group of, like, you know, three, four, five people, it's like, well, somebody got to know how to sew. And we'll figure it out for us. So I feel like you also have to bring up, you know, those types who were not traditional designers and maybe didn't design anything for anybody else, but they they they they they they they they they they.. they. they. they. they. they, they, but they, but they, th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, well, well, well, well, th. th. th. And, th. th. th. th. th. th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thi, thi. And, thi. And, throooooooooan, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, well, thi. And, well, th. And, to the culture and I think should be included in our overall black fashion history. You know there are styles and trends that originate in the black

community and then somehow they just magically appear in the fashion industry. Give me a rundown of some of the stuff that's been appropriated from black culture that makes his way into mainstream fashion without accrediting the place of the culture of origin. I actually think on the jewelry side we saw a a big example is like Sex and the City when Sarah Jessica Parker's character, Carrie, calls her like nameplate necklace. That's at Carrie Ghetto Gold. And that was something that, you know, I think she wore it 2002, 2003, something in there.

And it's like by that point, you know, black women had been wearing nameplate necklaces years in all since the 90s........ And, and th and th and th and th and th and th and th and th. And, and th. And, and th. And, and th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, the, the, thi, the, they, they, they, they, they, they, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, they, they, they, they, thi, tha, tha, theya, theya, their, they, they, they, their, their, their, theiraces years and all since the 90s, and it was something that was considered derogatory then. Now you see nameplayed nexus everywhere costing like so much money and it's just completely kind of, it hasn't completely left the culture, but it's definitely something that now it's a lot more mainstream and has lost, you know, I think a lot of people kind of don't really think about the fact that black women kind of did it. Even more recently, I would say something like, something we've seen on social media, like the whole clean girl aesthetic where it's just like a white shirt pulled back hair with the bun and like hoops and, you know, just like very minimal style, there's been a very big

outcry on social media where black women are like we've, like, like, like, like, like, black girls, like, like, there's been a very big outcry on social media where black women are like, we've been wearing that for years. Like, black girls love a pulled back bun and some hoops. Like, it's just like so classic of a fashion aesthetic, you know? You know what I do? But I feel like the mistake that the fashion industry makes and I don't know if it's the designers and the magazines where they presented as, here's the new thing. You could just go, we're doing a thing. But when you go, this is the all new craze,

like, wait a minute now, this is not the new craze. This is an old craze that you just discovered. Right. With your late ass. Right. And we saw that happened with street wear the street. their. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. that. that. the. the. the. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It is. It's. It's. It's. It. It's. It's. It. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. the the. see all of these brands are currently. Everybody wants to be in streetwear and it's like, where did street wear come from? The streets! Which was typically black and brown people,

this is what they were wearing. To go back to what we were talking about, you know, a second ago with the 90s, how black people were remixing mainstream brands is now what the mainstream brand... mainstream brands is now what the mainstream brands make and we don't get the credit for that like the way that the rappers were wearing their stuff in the 90s just by people living in various like you know all over the states the way that they were wearing things was not how they were modeled right so it's just very interesting that now that is the style you even think

about like baggy jeans becoming now mainstream, which has been very interesting. Or the torn-up jeans, the distressed, the distressed jeans. Yeah, well after the break we're gonna have an opportunity to sit down with two wonderful, wonderful people who have been at the forefront of not only black fashion design but also trying to change the industry to get rid of all of these blind spots that we've just just th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th just th just th just th just th just the the the the the the the. the. the. the. the. I the. the. the. I's the. I's the. the. the. the. the the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. tooo. tooooooooooooooo'n. tea. to'n'n'n'n'n'n't to'n't to'n't, to'n. but also trying to change the industry to get rid of all of these blind spots that we've just been talking about. I'm excited to get down and sit down and talk with these people. This is beyond the scenes. We'll be right back.

Finding great candidates to hire can be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. You might get a lot of resumes, the to the skills or experience. But not with Zip Recruiter. Zip Recruiter finds amazing candidates for you fast. And right now you can try it for free at Zip Recruiter. Zip Recruiter's smart technology identifies top talent for your roles quickly. Immediately after you post your job, Zip Recruiters' powerful matching technology starts showing you qualified people for it. And you can use Zip Recruiters' pre-written writers apply message to personally reach out to your favorite candidates and encourage them to apply sooner. Ditch the other hiring sites and let Zip Recruiter find what you're looking

for, the needle in the haystack. Four out of five employers who post on Zip Recruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free at this exclusive web address.ziprecruiter.com slash zip. Again that's zip recruiter.com slash zip. Zip recruiter the smartest way to hire. Hey everybody John Stewart here. I am here to tell you about my new podcast the weekly show coming out every Thursday. We're going to be talking about the election earnings calls. What are they talking about on these earnings calls? We're going to be to to to to to to to tod tod th of th of th of thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin the the the the the the the the the the the to be to be the to be to be to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to to the to to to to to to the election earnings calls. What are they talking about on these earnings calls? We're going to be talking about ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches. I know you have a lot of options as far as podcasts go, but how many of them come out on Thursday. Listen to the weekly, welcome back.

Now, I just had a wonderful conversation with Chelsea Williamson, and it's always good to have you on Chelsea, but I think it's time that we add some more people. Let's make it more fashiony. Is that a word? Fact, let's up the fashionness of this and really get into the granular issues within the fashion industry for black women and black brown people as a whole. We are joined by the CEO of Harlem's Fashion Row, Brandis Daniel,

Brandis, welcome to the show. How you doing? I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me. Spectacular. I'd also like to welcome the editor in chief at the cut, and founder of the Black in Fashion Council. Please, how you doing? Hi, I'm th, I I I I I am th. I am th. I am th. I am th. I am th. I am th. I am good. I am good. I am good. I am good. I am good. I am good. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. tho. tho. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. tho. tho. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. than. than. to, to, to, toea. toean. toean. to. to. to. to. and Fashion Council. Please welcome Lindsay people's. Lindsay, how you doing?

Hi, I'm good. Thank you so much for having me. All right, so let's get right into it. So Lindsay and Brandis, let's talk a little bit about your journey breaking into the fashion industry, you know, because there's already hurdles in general just with fashion, and then there's hurdles when you're black and then there's more hurdles when you're a black woman. This is a mostly white industry. Brandis, let's start with you. What were some of the things that you knew were coming and

what were some of the more unexpected hurdles once you actually got into it? Yeah, no, thank you for that Roy. So I moved to New York with a dream of working in luxury fashion. I was working in apparel production production production production production production production production production to New York with a dream of working in luxury fashion. I was working in apparel production for a company that did all the production for Victoria's Secrets. And so we were kind of behind the scenes, but I was really looking to, how can I work for one of the brands that I absolutely love. And I can't even tell you how many resumes I sent out, how many people I reached out to and never

got even an interview with any of those brands. So, you know, I always believe though, like challenges are a great way to reroute you to where you're supposed to be. And so now I get to work with a lot of those brands and partnerships, but back when I first came to New York 17 years ago, I got crickets. Let's also real quick, let's talk about like this idea that you're going through this and then you start talking to other fashion designers, like what were other black fashion designers, what were they saying? Was it just like, yeah, here does that be? Or was it also like, A, figure it out? Was just like, yeah, good, does that be? Or was it also like, a, figure it out. Was there any sense of alliance amongst black women?

So again, we're talking 17 years ago when I first moved here. And so at the time, people didn't want to identify as black in fashion. Because they didn't want to be stereotype, they didn't want to not get opportunities because people knew that they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they didn't want to be stereotype, they didn't want to be boxed in, they didn't want to not get opportunities because people knew that they were black. And it was a real thing and a real challenge. And so a lot of times it was, how do I enter into this industry in a way that is very non-descript where I can, you know, go in, do a great job, but not really bring this part of my identity with me. That's really what I felt in the beginning of being here.

It was really tough because the industry was brutal. Actually, Lindsay did an article on it a few years ago, but it was brutal for black people in this industry. And so, you know, we just didn't talk a lot about race, which is, you know, I'm fast-warning a bit, which is why it was so hard to start a company that supported black designers because no one wanted to put that out really into the public view in this industry. Lindsay, let's talk about that article real quick. I want to get into your beginnings

and how you came to New York, but first you wrote that article for the Cut. It was called Everywhere and Nowhere, what it's really like to be black and work in fashion. Just tell me the day where you were just like, you know what everybody got to know what the hell going on. Because because because you's you you you because because because you's because because you's because you's because you's because you's because you're the the the to to to to to to be to be the to be to be to be the to be, you're to be, you're to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to the the the the the the the the ti.e.e. the the the the thea.e.e. the the the the the the thea.a. too. toe. toe. to then just one day you was like damn and I'm gonna open up Microsoft Word and I'm just type until I can't type no more. And you went around and interviewed people from all these different facets of the fashion industry. Just talks us a little bit about what

inspired that article and what you discovered in through those through those interviews. Yeah I mean I saw so much of what Brandis was talking about and always admired what Brandis was doing, but I felt like she was one of the few people doing it. I felt like there wasn't that much help for black people in trashin. There were a few initiatives, a few things that people wanted to talk about, but it really wasn't something that I think people were okay with bringing to the forefront. And I'd actually had the idea to do that that that thiii, th, th, th, th, the th, th, the th, th, the th, th, thi, thi, thin, the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the tho, the, the, the, the, tho, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the, the, the the the the the the the th, the, the the, the, the the, the, the, the, the, thee, thee, the, thean, tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.. the, the, the, the th forefront and I'd actually had the idea to do that piece when I first started at the cut so I didn't end up doing it till like four and a half years later actually but I had pitched the idea actually when I started and it got

shot down. So it was something that I always wanted to do it, it just you know took life and time to be able to actually do. And by the time that I wanted to do it so much to change the industry that I think people felt like there had been some advancements that were very public facing, but a lot of black people were still really internally frustrated and feeling like, oh, you know, all these magazines, are putting black people on the covers of magazines and wanting to pat them back, but the black people who work at this publication

feel treated terribly and I think that for me was a point of you know if I'm going to do this and I'm going to hustle this hard, this industry needs to be more sustainable for black people. You spoke to a number of black people for this article. How many people did you feel were true allies in this cause? Because, you know, and I cannot compare entertainment to fashion, but I just do know that there are some black people in entertainment that are all about respectability politics and just, hey, you better calm down your black news. Shhh, you're getting too black.

All right, let's go on back out, double the white ful. Like, did you have any instances of conversations like that while researching this article, or just through your fashion journey in general? Yeah, I mean, I actually when I had first moved to New York, working three jobs, exhausted. I used to do these women of colored and fashion lunches in my apartment for all the young black girls who were also assistants and entry level. And it was not fancy at all. I lived in a very tiny apartment. But it was probably 30 of us squeezed into like a really small living room and we

would just talk about. Oh, the pre-COVID days. Remember the good old days? You could just put 40 people on that one. Yeah, a long time ago now. But this was when I was an assistant and so like 2012-ish and then we would talk about a lot of things of how we all would deal with something very differently.

And one of the ones that I remember so clearly was a few of us had been called the N-word by white colleagues on set. And we all had very different opinions of how we wanted to deal with it. And I've always felt like and still feel like, I love what I do and I'm very fortunate to do what I do but I don't love it enough to be disrespected and I don't love it enough to I think tolerate a lot of behaviors that I think other people will and I made that decision really early on that I wasn't going to assimilate or code switch and that if I was going to do it I was going to do it my way or just wasn't to do it at all at at at at at at at at at at at at all at all at all at all at all at all at all at all at all at all at all at all at all at all at all at all at all all all all at all all all all all all all all all all all all all all. I all at all. I all at all. I. I'm all. I'm all. I'm all. I'm all. I'm all. I'm at at all. I'm very all. I'm at at all made me realize that allieship really is only important if it's active.

Like it has to be people really speaking up and joining together and I think doing it in a way that is actually sustainable for other black people as well, and not just for yourself. So it doesn't really matter if you're like, you know, I'm okay with someone calling me the end word, you do realize that that's going to happen to another black person because if you stand there and don't say anything and you say, well, I need this job and this is fine and I'll, you know, I'll just suck it up, then that they think that they think that they can also treat another black person like, and that, and that, and th..... And, and, and, and, that, th. And, that, th. And, to, th. And, to, th. And, th. And, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thrown, thi, thrown, thi, thi, thi, that that thi, that that that thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thei, thi, thei, thi, thei, thei, thei, thei, they. And, thin, they. And, to to thri, to to to to to to to to to to to they. to they. they. that it also just puts black people, I think,

at a really tough position. Because if we don't have the connections, we don't have the generational wealth, we don't have all the things, it was really fascinating, I think, to have that conversation because everyone was just so desperate. And so everyone kind of came at it at different places, and not even from a judgmental situation, but I think then I knew and made the decision like either I'm doing this my way or I'm not doing it at all. Okay, so then to that point Brandis, I want to ask you in one second here just what your

thoughts are on, what some of the other hurdles that are currently faced by black people but first Lindsay let's back, three jobs. What else was the struggle? Like when you first got here, where'd you come from? The teams, Midwest is in the research doc, but I wanna get granular, like where in the Midwest? No, I'm from Wisconsin. Not exactly the fashions. Love the flannel, lots of good flannel, lots of good flannel.

But not a fashion epicenter, you recognize that. So you bounce the the the the the the the they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, that's, that's, that's, they, that's, that's, the, that's, that's, that's, that's, t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t, t, t, t, t, t, t, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, they. they. they. they. they. they. theyme. theyme. theyme. te.ea.ea.ea.ea.ea.ea.ea.ea.e.e.e.e. te. te. te. tom. t. that, so you bounce to New York with a rent is quadruple. Just walk me through those early days in New York as you were trying to navigate those hurdles. I mean, I laugh now, but I just cried so much during that period that I think I'm shocked that I even honestly stayed because I was just honestly mentally drained and emotionally exhausted, and I'm really proud of myself when I look back on those days. But even I think now it just allowed me to build up a fortitude to be able to handle things now that I probably thought I would never be able to handle.

But yeah, I mean I worked, you know, at that time you only got paid $9 an hour working in the closet. At night I was always changing mannequins for different stores, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi for different stores, so like the store that I mainly worked at. Are you at least working in something fashion? The mannequins are fashionists, but are you like in and around print and any, like what was the day job? What were the day job? Yeah, I mean, the day job when I started in what we call the fashion closet is just,

you are assisting all of the fashion teams so you could be going on shoots, you could be merchandising and organizing clothing, you could be doing check-ins and returns of items that are coming in for shoots like sitting on, sitting in, you know, in the very back of creative meetings, all of that. So just getting a look at to how the covers and all of the fashion shoots are made, but I think even then I felt, honestly I think it was the exhaustion of, you know, working at night. I would always leave Teen Vogue during the day and then I would go work at night of changing the mannequins or freelancing for another stylist. On the weekends I always waitress Saturday and Sunday. But it still wasn't enough.

Like, it was enough to like pay my bills. It wasn't enough to really do anything else. And there were a lot of situations where, you know, and Brandis knows this, like, so much in fashion is also how you dress and how you appear. That is also such a big part of the social currency of being able to talk with people to be able to feel like they think that you're at least good enough to be in the rooms. And so a lot of times, I would get really frustrated in the early days because I would always outwork other people, but it really wasn't necessarily

about me outworking other people. It was about them having certain connections or, you know, I would intern with girls who would wear full Chanel every day and I couldn't compete because I was wearing Gap and that was all that I could afford. And that was the social currency in the way of, you know, when your boss see someone wearing Chanel, they're like, oh my gosh, I love that outfit. And then they are like, oh, you should style this thing because you have great style. When really what they have is, you know, elitism and classism and other advantages that I just didn't have. And so it's quite frustrating. And it's really expensive. And it's really expensive. So then to that point, Brandus Br Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand Brand brand, Brands, Brands, it's, it's, it's, their, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, their, their, their, their, their, they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they's really they's really they's really they's really they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's they's, they're they're they're their. their, their, their, their, their, their, their their, their their, their their, their. they're they're they're they're they're they're. So then to that point, Brandis, what do you think of some of the other barriers that black and brown people deal with when they enter the fashion industry

and have things like social media and direct to consumer movement created another point of entry for them? Yeah, can I go back real quick, Roy to Lindsay. When Lindsay interviewed us for that article, it was like a therapapapapapapapapap thea thea thea thea thea thea thea thea thea thia thia thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to thin. to to to tooooooooooooooooooooooooooing, toeean, thi. thi. thi. thi, it was like a therapist that called me and said, how do you feel? I think I kept Lindsay on the phone for over an hour because no one had ever asked me how it felt to be black in fashion. And I remember talking to Lindsay about what was it like interviewing all these people. She interviewed like 100 people and everyone felt the same way.

So this was hours and hours of her listening to people of color and how they felt, particularly black people and how they felt working in passion. So Lindsay, thank you for that. I needed that moment. Okay, but then, but then, then let me ask you, why did you agree to do the interview? Because she interviewed 100 people, I know if you interviewed 100, then Lindsay, I know at least another 50 or 60 decline to participate because they probably scared of backlash and being on the record, talking about racism in the industry.

Shhh, I don't want the white people to see my name in at all. Don't do it. Can you talk to me, but I won't get my name? No, I need your name because it gives legitimacy. So Brandis, why did you agree? Why weren't you scared into being silence on speaking on race? It was a few things. And there were some things that I even going, but one of the things was Lindsay did my very first interview with the cut and I never forget when people are part of like my beginning journeys. And also I felt like this was a conversation

that we really weren't having in fashion. And the fact that I could be a part of it or that she even asked me to be a part of it really felt like an honor for me to be able to voice that. Because it's been up until that article, these were were th were th were th were th were th were th were th were th were th were conversations were conversations were conversations were conversations th were conversations th were conversations th were th were th were th th were th th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I th. I th. I the th. I the the the the the the the the their their their thi. I thi. I thi. I the. I the. I to. I toe. I toe. I toe. felt like an honor for me to be able to voice that. Because it's been up until that article, these were conversations we were only having with each other. And I kind of felt like finally, this is gonna be an article that everyone in fashion and retail are going to have to read and decide whether they wanna reckon with this or not. So for me, it was an honor to be a part of it. So then to that point, Brandis,

when you had an opportunity to speak and just this years and years of PTSD and everything you'd gone through just starts vomiting up, what are some of the other hurdles and obstacles for black and brown fashion designers, or black and brown people in the fashion industry period that they're dealing with with th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, they're the, the, they're th, the, their, thin, their, their, their, they're their, they're the, they're they're they're they're the, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, th........ and, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, thin, thin, thin, than, than, than, than, than, than, than, than, thean, thean, thean, thean, their, their, their, the industry, period, that they're dealing with. Because if you don't have the Chanel outfit off the rip to be in your internship, that means you ain't got money,

which means you probably can't get an investor because they don't want to invest in you because they look at your clothes and decide your clothes, you don't dress nice, so how do I know that you know how to make nice? So that that that that that that that th that th that that th that that th th th th th th th th th th th is th is th is th is thi th is thi. So. So thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi thi that means thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is thi th is thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to be to be to be to you think is still out there? Yeah, so I work with designer, black designers mostly and some of their hurdles were, you know, not having access to mentorship because this is a hard business. Most black people don't come from a family where they've got, you know, an auntie who was a successful designer. So there's like no one that you can really go to besides other designers who are also trying to figure it out. Part of it was financing. How do I even get the money to be able to set up a website? Because again, this industry is so based on aesthetics.

So if you go to a designer's website and it doesn't look like it compares with another non know, another non-black designer in that space. People are judging you based on that. A lot of times it was them trying to get in stores, but retailers saying, you know what? This designer, I don't think that they are really fit. I don't think our consumers will really get it. A lot of times they were told to water their styles down. I had a designer designer designer designer the thi designer tho tho tho tho tho thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, people thi, people thi, people thi, people people people thi, people people thi, thi, thi, people people thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, th they were told to water their styles down. I had a designer who has a very clear aesthetic of like what her brand looks like. In one season she came out, I didn't even know those were her clothes. And the reason she had done that was because she had met with white buyers who had told her that she needed to make all these changes to

her collection in order to be considered for their store. I mean, honestly, Roy, I could go on and on about the challenges for black designers, but I think it kind of boils down to financing, opportunities, access, and really they're not being a very clear intention initially. That's changed a bit for the industry to really support black designers. Are there options, like when we just talk about fashion school, what are the options for someone that is still in the Midwest who cannot afford the move to New York?

Or is that the first hurdle that you have to overcome? To even get to all it, it's like Mario, you gotta beat this boss, and then you can face the bosses of racism and colonialism and lack of investors and nepotism and financial barriers, et cetera, et cetera. I'm so happy you bring that up because that's a big barrier. So, you know, again, most people are going to college

or first generation, black people going to college and second generation students. I couldn't have to my mom I'm going to fashion school right out of high school. You know, like A, who has the money for that? B, what job are you going to? You know, it's really about how do we set up the next generation to win? And that's hard for us to wrap our hands around as looking at all the systematic challenges we've been through as a people. And so you're right, the first barrier is design schools. If you look at the percentage of, you know, design students in schools like Parsons,

in schools like RISD, who is one of the top schools, in schools like SCAD, it's so tiny, it's probably less than 5% of the students that are there. Some of them is less than 1%. So you're absolutely right. That is the first barrier. That's why we've started to do a lot of work with HBCU fashion departments,

because it's like, how do we get these students prepared? And to compete with students who have graduated from these top fashion institutions. You know, so there's, oh my goodness, when we start to peel back the layers of all the challenges and why the challenges exist and get to like the systematic root of it, it's hard. It can feel overwhelmed. I love that you're kind of smiling, but this is a lot. It's a lot. I'm smiling because I have Lindsay on but this is a lot. It's a lot. I'm smiling because I have Lindsay on here with me and she knows exactly what I'm talking about. Exactly what she's talking about.

And when you start peeling back the layers, it's so much. But you know, you've got to start somewhere. And I think that's, you know, Lindsay with Black and Fashion Council and me with Harlem's Fashion Rochant, I think we both said, we don't know how we're gonna tackle all this, but let's at least start. Yeah. After the break, I want to get a little bit deeper into solutions.

We have talked about all of the hurdles. We'll try to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the hi. th. We have to to to to the hi. We have the hi. We have the hi. Wea o'n, the hi. Wea o' the hurdles. Wea the hurdles. Wea, the hurdles. Wea. Wea. the hurdles. the hurdles. the hurdles. the hurdles. the hurdles. the hurdles. the hurdles. the hurdles. the h. the h. the h. the h. the h. the. tolmoke. the. tolk. tolk. tole. tole. toda. toda. toe. toeck. thoomoomorrow, theck. theck. thi. thi. We have tho to figure that out with our guests next. This is beyond the scenes. Finding great candidates to hire can be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. You might get a lot of resumes, but not enough candidates with the right skills or experience. But not with Zip Recruiter. Zip Recruiter findstalent for your roles quickly. Immediately after you post your job, zip recruiters powerful matching technology starts showing

you qualified people for it. And you can use zip recruiters pre-written invite to apply message to personally reach out to your favorite candidates and encourage them to apply sooner. Ditch the other hiring sites and let Zip Recruiter find what you're looking for, the needle in the haystack. Four out of five employers who post on Zip Recruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free at this exclusive web address. Zip Recruiter.com slash zip. Zip Recruiter, the smartest way to hire.

Hey everybody, John Stewart here. I am here to tell you about my new podcast, the weekly show coming out every Thursday. We're going to be talking about the election earnings calls. What are they talking about on these earnings calls? We're going to be talking about ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches. I know you have a lot of options as far as podcasts go, but how many of them come out on Thursday? Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart, wherever you get your podcast.

All right, so we've talked about the hurdles. Let's talk a little bit about the solutions and progress now. Thank you all for being on with us today. Because you see what I consider to be performative social justice versus what is actually quantifiable real stuff. So Lindsay, you had this fall fashion cover for the cut and you had Megan the Stallion and you had Megan Markle on that. Yeah. We did a CP time a while back on the Daily Show where we celebrated the history of black models like Naomi Sims, who they told her she was too dark. And there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there th th th th th th the the the the the the th th th th th th th th th th th th th th. You had th. th. thi thi thi thi thi. thi. thi. to to to thi. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. I I I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. the. the. the. the. the. the. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. the. th history of black models like Naomi Sims who they told her she was too dark and then it was Tracy Africa Norman who was a trance model. So you have these mile markers of progress but is

that smoking mirrors or are we really making progress to some degree in the fashion industry when it comes to being aware of racism and needing to do something to fix it? Yeah, I mean, I think that there has been progress. Like, I don't want to negate that because I think there's been so much incredible work that people have done, but I do think that a lot of the changes that we are talking about, it's just an infrastructural change. It's stuff that's been going on for generations, and it's going to to to to to it to change. So I think that there has been progress. I think a lot of things still stand. It's just that people are very scared to talk about them or they figure out a way to honestly

just leave fashion and say, you know, I just don't want to deal with this anymore. And maybe start something on their ownir own or just end up doing something, I think, a little bit different in fashion. But every part has its own unique problems, obviously, and what Brandis was referring to of, you know, how black designers have very specific issues. I think in editorial, we have very specific issues that like we just have not really decided to tackle a lot of times. And so, you know, I'm really grateful to be able to run a publication and to be able, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, tho, to, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, thrown, thrown, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, thei. and, thei. and, thei. And, they. And, they. And, they. And, thr. And, thr-a. And, thra. And, to, to, to, to, thei.a, to, to, thei. And, to, to, to, to be able to run a publication and to be able to, yes, do those front-facing things of having both Megan's in the cover and I'm incredibly proud of it and that's amazing, but it is also very inclusive behind the scenes and every little thing that we do is inclusive and intentionally really thoughtful to make sure that it's not just a front-facing thing that we to say that we put somebody in a cover but from the people th, that..... I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I the people th. th. th. the people th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. thi. th. th. th. th th th. th th thi. th thi. th the the. It to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to thei. thei, the people who are shooting everything to people that we commission for things, to hiring people on staff and not just freelance so that you get notifications about this person doing

something for publication. What we're talking about is a holistic change, and I think that is just going to take a long time. How do you all, if you all, if you want to get, if you want, if you want, if you want, if you, if you, if you, to get, to get, to get, to get, to get, to get, to, to get, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the, to, the, to, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, too, too.e.e.e.e.e.e.e. too. to, to, to, to want to get, you've already kind of answered this question, you have answered this question to a degree of what you all are doing to hold the industry accountable in terms of progress, but also, is it difficult to hold an industry accountable while still operating within it? I think the only way to really hold it accountable is to be operating within it. It's hard to, from the outside, if I was from the outside outside, and the outside, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I think the only way to really hold it accountable is to be operating within it. It's hard to, from the outside, if I was from the outside, and I am a proud outsider,

but if I was from the outside trying to affect change in fashion, it would be really difficult to do. One of the things that I do is try to keep it on the front of people's minds, a brand's mind. So all the time I am having conversations about race and fashion about some of the challenges that designers are still facing. So for example, there's been so many department stores who now are carrying black designers. So what they do is they open the door, they allow the designers in, but what I've said to them is there has to be a program in place to make sure that you can sustain them because they're not coming from the same resources so they can't deal with your net 60 terms and you

may have to pay them a deposit up front. And if you want to keep them, and by the way, if you don't want to keep them, basically what you're saying is you don't want to grow. Because when you're looking at Gen Zers, that racial equity is so important to them. So if brands want to last in the future and they want to attract Gen Z, which if they want to grow, they have to attract them, They have to be willing to do the things that are needed to make sure that these designers can actually keep showing up in this department store. I read something on Bloomberg recently that 25% of black people say they shop from black people frequently, and under 35 that jumps to 40%. Well, that's a big deal, and that's a lot of money that's thiiiiiiiiiii that's that's that's thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi that jumps to 40%.

Well, that's a big deal and that's a lot of money that's represented there. And so brands have to find a way. How do we make sure that these designers can come in and stay in? And so it's just having, listen to the designers, hearing what their challenges are, and then as I'm meeting with brands, which I probably have about meetings with like 10 brands a week, making sure that I'm communicating this to them so that basically I can, you know, help to give the designers a voice inside of these brands.

Lindsay, talk to me a little bit about, when we talk about accountability for these brands, the emphasis for the Black and Fashion Council, which I don't want to call it like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, the consumer, the consumer, the consumer, the consumer, the consumer, the Black and Fashion Council, which I don't want to call it like the consumer report on whether or not you're doing the work you claim to be tweeting about working and doing, but I know it's a public report to track these things. How do you quantify, you know, from a data standpoint, how are you quantifying this and what has been the response you've seen from the companies that decided to, you know, be a the. the, like, like, like, like, like, like, the, the, the, the, the, the, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, like, their, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, theirthis and what has been the response you've seen from the companies that decided to, you know, be a part of this project?

Yeah, I mean, for Black and Fashion Council, a lot of it is my co-founder, Sandari and Charles runs a PR firm. Obviously, I'm an editorial. We started to just get on Zoom with a bunch of people like Brandis to say, like, what can we collectively do a little bit more of to push to to to to to to, their, th and, th and, th and, th and, th and, th and, th and, thi and, thi and, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, their, their, thi, thi, thi, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thr. And, toean, toean, toean, toean, toean, thr.a. And, thr. And, thr. And, thr. And, thi, thi. And, to say like what can we collectively do a little bit more of to push the industry to actually be held accountable. And I think that a lot of it was like we wanted to create safe spaces for you know black people in fashion to be able to just you know have fun and to be able to have a sense of community. So we do our own like seasonal dinner for all you know the senior level and people on the board, a black and fashion council, but then we also did one for younger people in fashion to be able to have fellowship and finds the community

at Soho Works last week. We always do our showroom at IMG at Spring Studios, where they already have all the shows, and that really helps all the designers get exposure. We set up press appointments and all and all of that for them. And so it's been cool to see young designers start in the showroom and then be able to build enough to have their own show, which is incredible, like Theophilio. And I'm so proud of all of them every season. We do our job fair, which is free for students.

And we do that twice a year to just work with HBCUs and community colleges to get all the kids...... And. And. And, their. And, their, their, their, their, to. And, their, their, their, thi. And, their, thi. And, their, toe, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, their, to work, their, to work, their, to be their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their. And, their. And, their, their. and their. and their, their, their. and their, their, their, their, their, their, their. And, their, their, toe. And, toe. And, toe. And, toe. And, toe. And, toe. And, toe. And, toe. And, toe. And, their their their their their to get all the kids just more exposure as far as different jobs that they can do outside of being a stylist and the flashy stuff that they may see. There's a ton of different jobs in fashion that I think you just don't know about if you don't come from fashion. And then obviously we have our directory, which is all we partner with color of change on, which basically works to not let the company say, like, we only use this photographer because we've known him for a very long time. So it's an industry-wide vetted directory of, you know, production, set production, photographers, make up all of that, that all the companies can use. And so part of it was

that we wanted to provide a lot of these resources first to be able to not give companies the excuse and then the corporate equality index is really our way of to to. to. to. to not give companies the excuse and then the corporate equality index is really our way of saying like now we've provided all of these areas in ways in which you can rise to the occasion of making changes, how are you actually doing that? And I think for a lot of the companies, it's been forcing them to get out of the habit of doing the things that they've always done. And we got really nitty-gritty-gritty with companies with companies. Like even you throw a company holiday party, who's catering it every year? Because it's probably your friend who you've been booking for the past 10 years. Like we got really down to the nitty gritty people

because I think also a lot of brands, and especially because when we had started it, it was during the pandemic. And so a lot of brands were like, well, like, we don't have more money to hire money money money money money money money money money money money money money money to hire to hire to hire to hire to hire to hire to make our company more inclusive, but literally every little thing that you do, you should be interrogating and saying, how can I be more inclusive in this? How can I step outside of my comfort zone? And I think just making the brands understand that it's okay to be uncomfortable.

And that's actually a good thing when you're out of your comfort zone and being challenged to do something differently. I know we don't have a lot of time left, you know, and in Brandis, I did want to for sure recognize the Icon 360 fund that you started as an effort to raise funds for designers of color, and you also support black college fashion departments. I wish you would have been around when I was at FAMU back in 96, still wearing chaps up top and Tommy Hill figure pants. I did not know you could not wear clashing it. No one told me, okay? No one told me. But I would

love to talk about Harlem Fashion Row before we get out of here because I want to end on this. I want to end on the question to both of you really is about what words do you have, you know, what are, what do you feel in terms of the future of the fashion the fashion? the f the f th. th. th. th. the f th. th. th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. No th. No th. No th. No th. No th. No th. No to to to to to to to to to th. No to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. No. No. No. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the tee toe toe. toe. toea. toe. toe. to to to to thi really is about what words do you have, you know, what are what do you feel in terms of the future of the fashion industry and what would you say to young black people who are trying to enter the industry. Brandis, I'll start with you because I feel like Harlem Fashion Row does a great job of connecting and I know you also set up these big retreats for people of varying stages along their career journey to meet and parley but talk a little bit about Harlem fashion row and then I'll toss a question to you Lindsay. Yeah so I love the work we're

doing with Harlem's fashion row. We're really acting as a bridge between designers of color, mostly black designers and brands and so we're doing that through events, collaborations, brand strategy and pipeline programs like the HBCU, some it, that that that that that that that th, but to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to toe, but toe, but thi, but the, but the, but the, but the, but the, but the, but their, but their, but their, but their, but their, but their, but their, but their, but their, but their, but their, but their, but their, but their, but their, but their, but their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, theau.au.l.l.l. Iau.l. Iaq. Iaq.aq.a. I'll, their, their, their, their, the events, collaborations, brand strategy, and pipeline programs like the HBCU summits that we do. But my goal, really, Roy, and what I think is going to like shift everything is to build an endowment for black designers. You know, we don't have any endowments for black people and fashion.

And we were able to give away a million dollars to designers a few years ago. And now we're getting ready to launch a new business initiative. We're th. We're th. We're th. We're th. We're th. We're th. We're to th. th. to th. th. th. thi. thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. We're, th. We're, th. We're, th. We're th. We're, th. We're, th. We're, th. We're, th. We're, th. We're, th. We're, th. We're, th. We're, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. thi. the. the. the. the. the. million dollars to designers a few years ago, and now we're getting ready to launch a new business initiative where 5% of that money is gonna go back to fund Icon 360, because until we get something set up where designers never have to worry about how they're gonna finance their collections, and they never have to kind of be thinking about, you know, how do I go and pitch the investors? Because quite frankly, black designers rarely, if ever, get investment dollars, you know,

from funds. So we have to figure out how do we do this ourselves. And so we're working on, my goal is to lead this industry with a $20 million endowment for designers of color. And everything that I'm doing right now, I'm thinking about how do we make that happen? You can make a $19 million. Give me a million, you make a $19 million.

You got to be 20,000. Respectful. But now that's a goal so that we can have something that is sustainable and perpetuity because this conversation is cyclical. It's happened every 20 to 30 years. If you go back and look in history, Louis Alexander Lane was doing the work I'm doing with HFR back in the 70s. So it, the conversation keeps happening every few decades. So we have to figure out how do we set up something that lasts in perpetuity.

And lastly, Lindsay, what do you hope to see in the future of fashion for black and brown. and 30 and to to to to to to to to to to 30 and 30 and 30 and to to to th and th and th and th and that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's thi. that's that's that's thi. that's that's that's that's th. that's that's that's that's that that th. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. th. th. thi. the.e.e.e. th.e.e.e.e. th.e. th. the. the. the. the. the. that's that's that's that's set up something that lasts in perpetuity. And lastly, Lindsay, what do you hope to see in the future of fashion for black and brown and what would you say to young black people who are trying to enter the industry and, you know, see all, see the mountain that they have to start climbing? Yeah, I mean, I think my goal is that there doesn't even need to be as many DEI roles, honestly, for companies, because it should just be intrinsically something that we all have to do. It should not be something that companies make a special department for and gives out, you know, all the rules and regulations and guidelines. I think that in a perfect world, it would be part of a company, but it wouldn't be a driving force of saying, this is the only way that we have to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, and, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, and, the, and, and, the, and, and, and, and, the, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the, and, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the the the the the they.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e. the the the the the the the the the the the the this is the only way that we have to be inclusive because I think a lot of

times, especially for big companies, a lot of those initiatives just sit with human resources and it doesn't actually help when you work at like especially fashion magazines, a lot of those things don't really trickle down, and they kind of stay at the top and in the air, but you don't the you you you the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th you th you don't th you don't th you don't th you don't th. th. th. I thee thathe you don't three. thatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheat, that, that, th. that, th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th..... th.. th... th. th.. I I I I I I th., th., th., th., th., th. I I I I th. I thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thee, the, thin, the. the. the. thean, the. the. the. the. the. the, the, th and in the air, but you don't actually feel them when you work there. And so my goal would be for it to be, you know, if there's a, you know, amazing photographer that a publication likes to work with, but they happen to be really racist that publications are able to say, you know what, that doesn't align with our value system and we have to let you go and we can't work with you anymore because that's just intrinsically important to us and that's not just something that you know sits on an HR tablet and something that we say we care about DEI but we really don't. That's really my goal in the industry but I think as far as young people I just always encourage them to really be hungry for this work I think you have to really really to try and I thrun h have to the original gangster. She's been doing this forever and

You have to kind of smile and do it, but also Brandis loves it like she loves working the Sozainer. She is so passionate about it and I think you have to because it's not easy and it is really hard And I think I want to see young people really love the work and have, you know, very specific goals in mind Instead of being so focused on how it looks on social...... attention, how many likes, all of that, all of that stuff fades to the background and it's not important but doing the work always is and that's really what's going to help the next generation. Well, I cannot thank you all enough for this wonderful conversation. I will end this with the words of the great Dion Sanders. If you look good, you feel good. If you feel good, you play good. If you play good, they pay good.

Thank you all so much for making people look good so that they can feel good and go about their lives, accomplishing all of the dreams that they've set out for themselves. That's all the time we have for today. Thank you to our guest Chelsea, Brandis, and Lindsay. And thank you, listener, for going beyond the scenes Show Beyond the Scenes on Apple Podcasts, the Iheart Radio App, or wherever you get your podcast. Explore more shows from the Daily Show podcast universe by searching the Daily Show, wherever you get your podcast. Watch the Daily Show weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central, and stream full episodes

anytime on Fairmount Plus. This has been a Comedy Central Podcast. Hey, everybody, John Stewart here. I am here to tell you about my new podcast, The Weekly Show coming out every Thursday. We're going to be talking about the election, earnings calls. What are they talking about on these earnings calls? We're going to be talking about ingredient-to-bread ratio on sandwiches. I know you have a lot of options as far as podcasts go, but how many of them come out on Thursday? Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart wherever you get your podcast.