The Daily Show: Ears Edition - Disability Rights in the Workplace | Tammy Duckworth & Michael Pollan

Episode Date: October 22, 2021

Senator Tammy Duckworth talks about disability rights, Michael Kosta quizzes people about current events, and author Michael Pollan discusses "This Is Your Mind on Plants.” Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes, a second look, starting September 17th, wherever you get your podcasts. Did anybody used to play video games sometimes? Yeah?

There's a game, one of my favorite games ever uncharted is they said they're making a movie, like now they like release the trailer thing? I don't know, man. I don't know, I, I, I, I, I don't, I don't, I don't the, I don't th, I don't know.. I don't the, I don't to the, I don't their, I don't to to their, I to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their to to to to listen to listen to listen to listen to listen to listen to listen to listen to listen to listen to listen to listen to listen to listen to listen to listen to listen to listen to listen their, I their, I their, I their, I their, I their, I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I thi thi. I thi. I to to to to to to to to to to to to to to thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th're making a movie like now they like released a like the trailer thing. I don't know man. I don't know. Okay here's my thing. The whole point of a video game is that you're in control of the character. That's what makes it more fun than anything else. And then they're like, hey, you know how you could do all this stuff? Imagine if you couldn't. Imagine if you th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the the the the they, they, they, they, they, th. th. th. th. th. th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. th. the th. th. their, th. th. th. their, th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. I the. I the. I the. I th it. Like that's why the video game was better in the first place. Now you're just going to make me watch. It's called, I can just watch a streamer then I go on YouTube and watch someone playing the game. That's the same thing. Now you want me to pay. And then I must come with popcorn like an idiot. You know what am I like. What is the point? What is the point? It's going. the game. the game. the game. the game. the game. the game. the game. the game. the game. the game. the game. the game. the game. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I. I. I's going. I's going. I's going. I'm. I'm. I's. I'm. I'm just. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I'm just. I's. I'm just. I'm just just just just. I'm just just. I'm just. I'm just. I'm just. I'm just. th. it's gonna be Pac-Man. Now we're there watching two hours, Daniel Day Lewis, Baa-Wah-Wah-Bah-Bah-Bah-Bah-Bah-Bah-Bah-Bah-Bah-then he'd come out and be like, Baa-Bah-Bah-Bah-Bah-Baboo,

Bababababah-Bah-Bah-Bah-Bah-Bah-Bah-Bah-Bah. I eat your dot. And then I eat my dot. And you just be like, of Times Square, the most important place on earth. It's the Daily Show, Ears edition. Tonight, the next step for workers' rights. Senator Duckworth and Michael Pollett. This is the Daily Show with Trevor Noah. Hey, what's going on everybody. Welcome to the Daily Show. I'm Trevor Noah and today I'm joined by...

Oh, nobody. Do we have no... no correspondent here today? Oh, sorry, okay, they've been stopping in so many times. I just like kind of got used to it. But that's okay. I'm excited to be going solo. Because tonight... Oh, sorry, I thought someone came in. That's fine, all right. Let's just jump straight into the headlines. Do you guys remember Donald Trump? Yeah? You guys remember him? No?

No? Maybe not? It was a reality TV guy? Used to be president. Try to overthrow the government. Still kind of is. Well, if you haven't thought about him for a while, it's probably because back in January, he got kicked off of Twitter and Facebook, which was his main way of spreading his gospel. And now because of that, he's been forced to post only on only fans.

And he's actually doing great. Yeah, he's got the biggest boobs on the whole website. But still, he wants a bigger platform, which is why last night he announced that he is starting his very own social media network called Truth Social saying quote, I am excited to send out my first truth on Truth Social very soon. And yes, in case you didn't get it, they're calling their posts truths. Which is so lame. I don't care what anyone says. Because I mean, it makes the whole thing sound like, remember those guys who came to your

school assemblies? Yo, let me post a truth at you. Drugs a whack, except for Ivermectin, yo? Also, you know what this means, right? If Trump is posting truths, knowing him eventually, he's going to start posting dares. Okay, I shared my truth. Now I dare you to hang my pants. And the big reason Trump and his people want their own social media app is that they are sick and tired of censorship from big tech.

And truth social is promising to be a free speech paradise, a place where anyone can say anything with some exceptions. Former President Trump's new free speech social network will not be allowing criticism of itself. The home page of Truth Social says the network will be a platform for open, free, and honest, global conversation. The Terms of Service page, however, says users will not be allowed to disparage, tarnish, or otherwise harm the social media site. The truth social is expected to go live sometime next year. You know this man is a legend.

He creates a free speech website and immediately was like, okay here's what you can't say. It's like if the first rule of Fight Club was, hey, hey, no fighting, no fighting, no fighting. No fighting. We work shit out here. And I'll be honest, like, I'm actually on Trump's side here. It's his website. He doesn't want people coming on there to roast it. Just like he wouldn't want people walking into his home.

Who decorated this place going to backfire. Because half of the fun of being on social media is talking shit about the platform. I mean, if you deleted all the tweets that talk shit about Twitter on Twitter, the only thing left would be that Denzel gift. Really, find another way to express yourself, people. And how is Trump, how is Trump of all people gonna make a rule about disparaging comments? I mean, this man roasts people so much, he has to do it at auctioneer speed. We got a fat guy in the front road, total slab, total slab, yes over here to the ugly chick,

low energy, major figure, sold to the low life horse face, who's weak, and jain' on China. But still, Trump has started his own social media site. Which is crazy, right, Roy? Because it's just... Oh right, he's not here. All right, let's move on. Because when Trump lost the election, he was so humiliated that ever since, he's been spreading completely made-up claims of voter fraud. And in response to this imaginary voter fraud, Republican-led states around the country have been making it harder to vote, right? Passing laws

that limit voting hours, restricting access to mail-in ballots, and offering an express voting line for anybody with a valid photo of themselves storming the capital, which is why Democrats and Congress have put toguad a bill designed to protect voting rights. But last night, the bill failed in the Senate with every Democrat voting for it and every Republican voting against it. Which, yeah, of course. Of course, Republicans weren't going to support a bill that's going to make it harder

for them to win. No one wants to make it harder on themselves to win. If I have a choice of playing pickup against Kevin Hart or Shaq, Yo, I'm going to choose to play against Shaq. Have you seen all those icy hot commercials? That man's body's falling apart. I've got a good shot. But once again, the only reason Republicans were able to block this bill is because of the filibuster. And many Democrats have said that now they've had enough.

Some Democrats say it's time to scrap the filibuster rule to get this bill passed. More Democrats now agreeing to carve out a voting rights exception to the filibuster rule, something they have been reluctant to change. That appears highly unlikely to happen because two key Democratic holdouts who Senator Kiersen Cinema, Senator Joe Manchin, they're on board with the Freedom to Vote Act, but they also support preserving the 60 vote threshold and there's no daylight or really no movement I should say on their part in terms of changing the filibuster rule to allow this to move forward. Yeah, so basically most Democrats think it's fine to alter the filibuster at least in this one case ta case ta ta ta tha tha tha tha tha th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thiol-nip. thi. thiol-nip. to to thiolioliolomea-nip. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. So, thi. So, thi. So, thi. So, th. So, th. So, thi. So, thi. So, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thea-n. thae. toda. toe. toe. toe. toe. So, toea. And, toea. And, toea. And, toda. And, thae. protecting voting rights is an emergency. You know, it's the same way that when you need to get to a hospital it's okay to drive over the speed limits. But Manchin and

cinema, well they're basically saying yeah you might do it now but where does it's to get to the hospital? the the the doctor's appointment on time and then it's to get to the grocery the grocery the grocery the grocery the grocery the grocery the grocery. the their. their. their. their. the their. the the their. the the the the thoe. thoe. thoe. thoes. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the hospital, but then it's to make a doctor's appointment on time. And then it's to get to the grocery store. And then if you're late to a movie, you speed. And then if you're not late for the movie, but you just really want to see the trailers, then you speed. Then you're just speeding all the time. But I will say this is someone filibuster. People envy America because of its long-standing commitment to stuffing things with cheese. Those are the principles Congress should be living up to. If you ask me,

there's a compromise here. They should just treat exceptions to the filibuster like its wishes from a genie. You only get three. The trick is to use your third for the bus day exception to ask for more exceptions. What's that? Did you say something, empty table? Yeah, you're right. The Democrats really can't get their act together, man. You stared at table. Oh man. All right, and finally, here's a story guaranteed to leave you yawning and half asleep, but like in a super interesting way. A new bus tour is designed to be boring and put people to sleep. The five-hour ride on a double-decker bus takes people around Hong Kong.

It's meant to appeal to people who are easily lulled asleep by long rides. And it was inspired by the tendency of tired commuters to fall sleep on public transit. Tickets cost between 13 and 51 dollars depending on whether they choose seats on the upper or lower deck. A goody bag for passengers includes an eye mask and earplugs. Some even come prepared with their own pillows and blankets. That's right, a bus you just sleep on which I actually think on the whole is a great idea. Because remember how nice it was when you were a little kid, when you could just drift off and fall asleep in the car? But now as an adult you can't do that because you'll hit a pedestrian or whatever?

And look, yes, $51 seems pricey, but I do think it's actually a bargain. I mean, one ticket and you get access to dozens of unguarded wallets. I was losers, you just go and then grab the shit. You don't do that with sleeping people? I will say though, there are a couple of problems with this. Okay, first of all, I don't know if I trust this company because this is exactly how you get to squid game. Secondly, let's be honest, this is wasteful. I mean, sleeping was the one human activity left that didn't leave a carbon footprint and now even that's ruined. Now if getting knocked out on a bus excites you, but you can't get to Hong Kong, the good news is you can experience this right here. Yeah. What you do is you get on a greyhound bus and you wait for someone to open the bathroom door and you won't wake up for two days to Hey, Table, do you know what I said? I said, if you want to get knocked down, you open

the bathroom door on the ground. What, what's that? I should set the studio on fire? Yeah, dude, it will be so funny. It will be... Oh, great. Oh, because it wouldn't burn. Ha ha ha ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! All right, that's it for the headlines. All right, I'm able. All right, that's it for the headlines. Let's move on to our top story. As you may or may not know, October is Disability Employment Awareness Month. A month where organizers inform us about how unfairly disabled people can be treated at work.

But the question is, why is this still an issue in today's society? Well, let's find out why. In another installment of, if you don't know, now you know. Disabled people face a lot of challenges when it comes to employment. Discrimination in hiring, a lack of accessible office spaces, coworkers who claim they're also disabled because they just can't do gluten. And there's a big issue getting a lot of attention right now about how much disabled people get paid. Minimum wage isn't the same for everyone. Businesses can take advantage of a section of a federal act that allows them to pay people with disabilities less.

Employers can apply for a Section 14C certification of the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938. That grants them the ability to pay workers with disabilities less than the federal minimum wage of 725. This program was established under the Roosevelt administration with arguably good intentions. War veterans who developed physical and mental disabilities from combat came home from abroad and struggled to find employment. There's no limit to how low an employer can pay so employers could legally pay pennies

per hour. There are even places in America where workers earn as little as 22 cents an hour. It's all perfectly legal. Yeah, 22 cents an hour. I mean, I don't know about you, but I was shocked when I heard that. Because I don't think any human being should be earning less than a gumball machine.. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, thi, their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their th. th. There, th. There, thi. There, thi. There, th hour. I mean, I don't know about you, but I was shocked when I heard that, because I don't think any human being should be earning less than a gumball machine. Even in Africa, we'd see this and be like, what? That's not even enough for a cup of coffee a day.

And it doesn't even make sense in terms of just language. How can a wage be lower be the minimum. It's like when the weatherman says, it's below freezing out there. Yo, man, once something is frozen, it's frozen. Fck out of here with your weather voodoo. So it's no surprise that there is a movement to get rid of sub-minimum pay. More and more states have been passing laws to close the loophole, and President Biden recently called on Congress to face it out It seems like one of those things that everyone should agree on, you know, like freeing Brittany or the first Aunt Viv was better or that the best karaoke song is TLC's No Scrubs. But it's actually more complicated than you might think, because some argue that this

wage loophole is actually a good thing for the disabled. Employers that can pay below $7.25 an hour are typically agencies that work directly with people with disabilities to help them find jobs. What's called a sheltered workshop. Here, the disabled get virtually guaranteed employment, but they are not guaranteed minimum wage. These job programs are designed to develop skills, create social groups, and instill a sense of value for their clients. If 14C certificates cannot be applied for, Some are worried about the unintended consequences. They say people with profound disabilities may lose a chance to be employed. If sub-minimum wage goes away, the biggest impact will be on our folks who have severe disabilities.

The handicap, the disabled worker, is not going to be given an employment opportunity. Rory Rowland says his sons tried other jobs, but sheltered workshops provide gainful employment and purpose for his son. If we forced him to go out and try to find a minimum wage job, he would be unemployed. Yeah, you see, that's what makes this so complicated. Many of the places that use this loophole are called sheltered workshops, which exist to provide these jobs to disabled people. So there's a legitimate concern that losing this wage

loophole might end up hurting the very people they're trying to help because if they close down some disabled people won't be able to get jobs at all. And having a job is important. I mean it gives you structure, it gives you a community, gives you a sense of purpose, and an ID badge with the worst picture you've ever taken, keeps you humble. So you could see how this arrangement, as messed up as it seems, might be better than nothing. At the same time, many advocates say that by providing a safety net for the disabled, these sheltered workshops could actually be doing more harm than good. Whether it's legal to pay people less than the minimum wage, often as little as 20 or 30

cents an hour raises serious questions about exploitation and whether people are really be giving an opportunity to reach their full potential. The sheltered workshop system takes people and systematically tells them they're not as good as the rest of the workforce. To me it's not right that we're getting the pay that we get. the pay, the pay, the pay, the pay, the pay, the th, th, the th, th, the th, the, the, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, often, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their their their thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii, thi, thi, thi're not as good as the rest of the workforce. To me it's not right that we're getting the pay that we get, because we work hard over there. We work very hard. It's not like they're just helping them get any job. They helped them get only the kinds of jobs that this place has available.

Ken Capone attended Johns Hopkins University. Ken also has cerebral palsy. Finding a job was difficult. He ended up in a sheltered workshop. Do you know how to meaning it was going to a sheltered workshop after completing a difficult programming class? He left after one day. But what if I did go back and work there? I probably would have still been there working for pennies on the dollar, not having

the opportunities I have today. Yeah, you see, this makes thi thi thi thi this makes thi thi thi thi this makes thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi ies on the dollar, not having the opportunities I have today. Yeah, you see? This makes sense too. If society pushes disabled people into these low-wage workshops, it tells them that this is where they're supposed to be, and it limits their potential. Because we know that disabled people are capable of doing great things. I mean, Stephen Hawking was an astrophysicist even with th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thus, the th, thus, thi, thi, thi, their, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, their, their, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, their, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. And, togy. And, toguu. And, togu. And, togu. And, togui, togui, togu. And, ts. I mean, Stephen Hawking was an astrophysicist even with ALS. Franklin Roosevelt, he ran the country from a wheelchair. Stevie Wanda is the reason that Happy Birthday is better at black birthday parties than white birthday parties. And look, this whole idea that disabled people shouldn't be paid the same as able-bodied people because they're not as productive. But I don't know about that argument, guys. Because it's not like every able-bodied person is great at their job either. If you ask me, disabled people should have the right to be as shitty at their jobs as everyone

else. Yeah, they should also be able to show up late, just do enough work to not get fired, play Fruit Ninja in the bathroom, and then leave at 4.30 on the dot. That, my friends, th debate, we're joined by Illinois Senator Tammy Duckworth. Senator Duckworth, welcome to the Daily Show. It's good to be on. Thanks for having me. This is a topic that I know is really near and dear to your heart because you're not just a combat veteran, but you're a combat veteran with a disability who went into a capital building that really wasn't designed for somebody or anybody with a disability for that matter and you've been at a the combat a the combat a the combat a the combat a combat a combat a combat a combat a combat a combat a combat a combat a combat a combat a combat a combat a combat a combat a combat a combat a combat a combat a combat a combat a to to. to to to to. to to to be a to be a to be a to be a to to to to be a combat to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to be... to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the.a.a.a.a.a.a.a. their.a.a. toe. toea. toea. toea. toe. toe. to. to. to a capital building that really wasn't designed for somebody like you or anybody with a disability

for that matter. And you've been at the forefront of advocating for equality. So let's start at the top level. What do you think are some of the issues that are still standing in the way of disabled people in America being able to get a fair wage and being able to get a job that can sustain them, you know, to live? Well, it's everything from prejudice that they're going to be more expensive to employ or that you're going to have to do something with your workplace or accommodate somebody with disabilities and that's going to cost too much money.

That's really, you know, those are really false arguments. In fact, studies show that when a disabled person lands a job, they become very loyal and they stay in those jobs for far longer than anybody else. There's far less turnover with persons with disabilities once they're able to land a job. And they make really good productive employees once they could get employment but people with disabilities suffer very very high unemployment rates, well over 50%. In your home state of Illinois, the governor just signed an executive order denying companies or really government contractors from hiring people with disabilities at sub-minimum wage.

Many even within the disabled community will say, hey, we can't transition into normal jobs. We can't do everything that these companies require us require us to do. And so some of these moments, some of these experiences are less about the income and more about us being a part of society. So to those people, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what the people, what the people, what the people, what the people, what the people, what the people, what their people, what their people, what their people, what their people, their people, their people, their people, their people, their people, their people, their people people people people, their people people people people people, their people people people people people people people people people, their people people people people people people people, their people people, their people, their people people, their people, their people, their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their, what to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. thi. thi. their thiiiia. thiia. their their the income and more about us being a part of society. So to those people, what do you say to them? Are you concerned at all that they will lose an opportunity to be part of something?

Or do you think there's a world where the companies won't now say there's no reason to hire them or we should hire them? Well, these companies are saying, well, if you don't incentivize us, we're not going to hire someone with a disability, yet the people with a disability have been doing that work. It doesn't make sense. This argument doesn't make sense. If they're already doing the job, you should pay them the same pay. And many of these companies actually have non-disabled workers doing the same job, that they're paying to basically exploit people with

intellectual disabilities in particular to do work that they're paying somebody else to do the same work a higher wage. And that simply is not fair and frankly un-American. Do you think there's a way to protect these workers, you know, once this law goes into effect, do you think there's a way to protect them from losing their jobs, you know, Whether th their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their thiiia, tho, thoes, thia, thi, throwne. thiole. thi, thi, thi, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, and, and, and, and, their, their, thii. thi. thi. thii. thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiia. tea. tea. tea. tea. thiii. to protect them from losing their jobs, you know, whether it be spiked from the companies or just them trying to prove a point? Well, we're seeing that many of these companies that had this argument previously have actually moved away from the sub-minimum wage, and they have not employed fewer persons with disabilities. In fact, they've employed the same people and they just have just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, their, the, thee, thee, thee, thee, thee, thee, thee.ean, thee. thee. thee. thee. thean. thean. thee. their wage. So we see that this is an empty argument. So there's this intimidation that's going on to really prey on the fears of both the adults with intellectual disabilities, but also their family members.

And I feel that what we need to be working towards is an integrated work environment where we do make accommodations. Target does a great job of hiring persons with intellectual disabilities and they stop the shelves, some of them even work the registers, and they're working alongside any of the other Target team members. We have grocery stores that do the same thing. So we've seen that this model that we should be going to already exist and is successful, and we can start ditching these old models from not just the 20th century,

but the 19th century, where we take people with disabilities and put them in a segregated work environment and then pay them less. Well, congratulations on the fight. I know we support you in the movement going forward, and I know we've got to let you go, so thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you so much for covering this issue. All right, when we come back, how much are you keeping up on the news? Well, Michael Costa is going to find out. He's behind you.

When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. Rolling? But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes, a second look on Apple podcasts starting September 17. Welcome back to the Daily Show. Here at the show, we pay a lot of attention to what's going on in the news. But how much are the people right outside our studio following along?

Well, we sent Michael Costa to find out. All right, welcome to fill me in the game show where you fill in the... News. Blank. in the game show where you fill in the news blank. Okay, let's get started. Republican Senator Chuck Grassley. You know who he is? No. He's a Republican senator. Okay. I just told you that. Chuck Grassley, 88-year- old senator. He recently tweeted quote, it's 4 a.m. in Iowa so I'm blank. He's hit in the restroom drinking coffee

Why would you say that? Because he's 88 years old and if you're 88 and you're not drinking coffee you are boring. Correct. Milking the cows? No, it's not what he said he was running. Oh, that sounds like a lie. Why do you say that? that? th, th, th, that? that? that? that? that? that? that? that that? that that that that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the th. the the the the th. the the th. th. the the the the th. the the the the th. thi? thi? thi? thi? thi thi. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi thi. the thi. Dead, correct. Milking the cows? No, it's not what he said. He said he was running. Oh, that sounds like a lot. Why do you say that? Because he's 88 and he looks like that. I mean, my grandpa's 88, I don't even like him standing. Zero points on the board.

It's still anyone's game. Alabama Republican Tim James is running for governor, vowing to quote, fight the beast with three heads. Critical race theory, transgender rights, and blank in public schools. Masks. thinks dumber than masks. I don't know, basic human rights. Think less threatening.

Religious freedom. Evolution. Even less threatening. Evolution. Even less threatening. Evolution. Evolution. Eve, even, oh my God. Less threat. What is something that maybe you've done in the last month that made you feel centered? Look, I'm doing it right now. Yoga. Yoga.

Are you kidding me? that's good enough for one point. Next question. You're going to love this next one, a a, a tho, a tho, a tho, a tho, a tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, threaten, threath. threath. threaten, threaten, threaten, threath. threath. threath. threat, threat, threat, threat, threat, threat, threat, threat, threat, threat, threat, threat, threat, threat, threat, threat, threat, threat, threat, threath. threath. threath. threaten. threaten, threaten, threaten, threaten, threaten, threaten, threaten, threaten, theeeeeeaten. threaten. threaten. threaten. threaten. threaten. threaten, threaten. for one point. Next question. You're gonna love this next one. A lyric from a new Kanye West album. Some say Adam could never be black because a black man will never blank. White guy, I would sit this one out. I was about to say, I'm not going to say a single thing about this one. Don't be shy, you won't get canceled on.

Cheat it on. Cheat. Get cheated on? Cheat. It is wrong. Some say Adam could never be black, because a black man will never die. to die. A black man will never die. Is that accurate?

I don't know. How about this? What if I to get canceled. Let's give some people a chance for double points. This one I'm not going to give you the speaker. But if you can guess who said this, I'll give you bonus points. Who said I'm more of a blank than I am a politician? Trump has said it in some form. Okay. This man looks great with his shirt off. Putin? Do you think Putin looks great with his shirt off. Putin?

Do you think Putin looks great with his shirt off? I don't, but he does. That jumped right out there, all right. Does this help? Oh, yeah, I should definitely know who that dude is. Wasn't he Batman? Sure, absolutely he was Batman. Matthew McCona, hey.

What is he more of than a politician? A stud. You think he said I'm more of a stud than a politician. Yeah. This is what he said. I'm more of a folksy, philosopher, poet, statesman, than I am a politician. Isn't that kind of a badass answer? No, I don't think so. Congratulations to everyone who played. Let's find out what they won. Okay, here's your prize. You get a photograph of Chuck Grassley, put it in your bathroom, it'll be a reminder to use sunscreen.

You don't want that? I do not. She doesn't want to. Thank you, Mo, bye. Thank you so much for that, Michael Pollin. When we come back, author, author, author, author, author, author, author, author, author, author, author, author, author, author, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. thi. to to to to to to to to to to to th. to to th. to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. the. the. thea. thea. thea. toooooooooooooo. too. too. too. too. too. the. try to convince me to take drugs. You don't want to miss it. And neither do I. Oh, this is going to be exciting. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it.

This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes, a Second Look, starting September 17th, wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the Daily Show. My guest tonight is best-selling author Michael Pollin.

He's here to talk about his brand new book, about the human attraction to psychoactive plants and how we think about drugs. Michael Pollen, welcome to the show. Hey, it's good to be here. It's really a pleasure to have you here. Like me, many, most people were exposed didn't change for me that much. My interest in food was part of my broader interest in the human relationship to other species, plants especially.

What do we use plants for? What desires do they gratify? Obviously, food is the biggest one and the first one you would do. But the other thing plants have done for us for all all of history, every culture on the planet, basically, is change consciousness. So health, plants, and ingestion. Those are the three things that made me think, I have to do this next. And then I started hearing about this incredible research.

Using psychedelics, syllabin mushrooms, to heal mental illness. And that struck me as such a strange idea that I just, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to toe, toeck., toeck, toeck, toeck, toeck, thi. thi, thi, theck, thea, thea, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, the ca, the ca, the ca, the ca, the ca, the ca, them.... them, thema, thema, thema, thema, thii. theanananananananananananananan, theauu.eau.eau.eau.eau.eauananananananananan, their, to heal mental illness. And that struck me as such a strange idea that I just had to delve in and see what was going on. It feels like you discovered, you know, Shangri-La or you know, some Atlantis, because that research has been hidden for so long. Yeah, it's been buried.

And that was a real surprise to me. When I read about these studies where they were using silocybin to help cancer patients deal with their depression and anxiety, and I thought that this was a brand new thing, and like most people, I thought of psychedelics as a 60s thing. But it turns out that through the 50s and into the 60s, very serious research using LSD and silicidein as treatment for mental illness. And they were getting really good results.

They were having great success dealing with alcoholism, breaking people of those habits. And there was, it was, LSD was considered a wonder drug. And there were conferences and a thousand peer-reviewed papers, six international conferences, and then stops. There is this kind of moral panic in the late 60s about psychedelics, and they were regarded as very disruptive to society. And Nixon launches the drug war as a result. So all that research gets buried. And 30 years go by, nobody studies it.

And then suddenly around 2000, a group of really dedicated researchers who never gave up faith started bringing it back and doing some studies and getting really impressive results. And it was when I started hearing about that, that I realized I've got to dig in. Do you think that drugs that I would term as, and I mean, you probably know the professional classifications for them, but drugs that have been really created in a lab, you know? Do you think like those drugs, things, thrugs, thrugs, th, thrugs, thrugs, th, thrugs, thrugs, thrugs, thrugs, thrugs, thrugs, thrugs, thrugs, thrug, thi thrug, thr-tha, thr-tha, thruge, thrugni, thr-a, thr-a, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thr-a, thr-a, thr-a, thr-a, thr-a, and, and then, thr-auui.aui. thr-aui. thr-a. thr-a, thr-a, th professional classifications for them, but drugs that have been really created in a lab, you know? Do you think like those drugs, things like fentanyl, things like cocaine, etc. Do you think that they have sort of tarnished the conversation and the imagery of psychedelics? I don't think we can say in general that if it comes from a plant, it's definitely better. I mean there are some pretty toxic plants and and but we you know it's it's very important to make distinctions and take each drug on

its own. We have this category illicit drugs. Psychedelics are very different than opiates for example. Psychedelics are not addictive believe it or not. They don't they're not habit forming. There's no lethal dose but they break your habits to other things. And that seems like counterintuitive for a lot of people that you can use a drug to deal with an addiction, but it's a non-addictive drug that seems to be very effective in dealing with cigarette addiction, alcohol addiction, cocaine addiction so far. And that's very exciting because we have very few ways to treate the the the treate the the the the the threate threat threat the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. the. they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they's they's they's they's they's they's they's they's they's they's. they's. they's, they's they's they's they's they's they's they's they's they's they's they's they's they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're ways to treat these things. I loved how in this book, you know, everyone loved the how to change your mind.

That was for many people their first foray into the world of psychedilics. This is your mind on plants. I didn't know what to expect, but I loved how it was the classic Michael Pollen of you know, really being your guinea pig. Which I love. I genuinely enjoy. th. th. th. th. th. th. th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I tho, I tho, I tho, I tho, I tho, I tho, I tho, I tho- tho- tho- tho- tho- tho-a, I tho, I tho, I tho, I tho, I tho, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thooo-a, thooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo-a, th your own test subject. I am my own guinea pig. Which I love, I genuinely enjoy. Because it's not just research-based, it's experience-based, you know? Well, I can't write about this without, I have to write about it from the inside. That's just the way I work. Are you never afraid though?

I was terrified. OK. I hadn't used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used used I didn't used used used used used used used used I didn't used used used used used used used.. I didn't used used used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I used. I used. I used. I used. I used. I used. I didn't used. I used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used. I didn't used to. I didn't used to. I didn't used to, I didn't used to, I didn't use to, I didn't use to, I didn't use this. I didn't used to, I didn't used the. I didn't used the. I didn't used to, I don't think I used to, I hadn't used the psychedelic till I was 59. I came very late, I'm a late bloomer. And so every night I had a series of guided and not guided experiences. I went through the whole menu of psychedelics, for you, dear reader. And the night before every one of these days, I was up all night. I was a wreck. Yeah, I can only imagine. Because I don't know about you, but I was taught my whole life. You take one of these things and it's over for you, Trevor. You are just, you're out in the streets, you're like robbing, you're rumping off of buildings. Yeah, you're jumping off buildings because you think it's a pool. That's all I though. I thi. I thrown. th. th. tha tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tho. tho. tho. tho tho. tho. tho. tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's ta. It's to. to. to. to. to. tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. You. the there are risks it's important to stress but yeah there's a lot of urban legends about what psychedelic do you and so

I was nervous and also you know the self going into yourself to see who you are that's a scary place to go. It's terrifying and and I didn't know what I discovered. What was the thing that you learned about Michael Pollin that you almost unlearned about yourself because of psychedelics? Yeah, it's a good question. Well, I had one experience, a guided sylcibin trip at a very high dose where I experienced the complete dissolution of my ego. So that was a valuable teaching for me, and a very surprising, and that the experience felt so good, because when you lose your ego, when the walls come down, there's nothing separating you from the world and you and you merge with it and there is good evidence that a single sylosybin trip if you do have this ego

dissolution experience will leave you more open than you were before. And God knows we need more of that. Looking at the world going forward. Your work has shifted many people's perspectives. So what do you see changing in America?? and and and and and and and you and you and you and you and th and th and th and you th and you th and you th and you th and you the world? And th and you th and you th and you th and you th and you th and you th and you th and you th and you th, and you thi and you thi and you thi, and you thi, and you thi, and you thi, and you thi, and you thi, and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you th and you th and you th and you th and you th and you the the the the the the the the the the world the world the the world the the the the the the thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi teea thea thi thi the thi your work has shifted many people's perspectives. So, what do you see changing in America? Do you see a change happening in America? And what would you hope that change would be considering lawmakers, the money that they get from drug companies? Because this doesn't seem good for drug companies, I'll say from my personal perspective. Oh, you're absolutely right. I mean, you were only going to sell one or two pills over the course of someone's lifetime. You don't need to do this every day. You can't do this every day.

Whereas the model for the pharmaceutical industry is, here's a drug you take every day for the rest of your life that doesn't cure you. It merely helps with the symptoms. Here, we're administering an experience that actually changes you and cures you when it works and it works in about two-thirds of the time. So it's a totally different model. I think we're on the road toward FDA approval of silicibin and MDMA or ecstasy, which is also sometimes considered a psychedelic and it's very useful in treating trauma. We're very quickly decriminalizing psychedelics around the country.

When I published this How to Change Your Mind, I really felt there'd be a lot of pushback from the psychiatric establishment. There wasn't. There was an embrace. And the reason is, and I learned this from talking some very prominent psychiatrists, is that they know perfectly well that the tools they have to treat mental illness stink. They don't don't don't don't don't don't don't they don't they don't they don't they don't they have they have they have they have they have th. th. th. th. th. thoo tho th. tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho-a. the, the, tho-a tho-a tho-a tho-a tho-a, tho-a, tho-a, tho-a, their their their their their their their their their their tho. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I, the, the, the, the, the, the. the. the. the. the. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. the. the. the tools they have to treat mental illness stink. Wow. They don't have, all they have are really SSRIs and these anti-psychotic agents which have all sorts of side effects don't really work that well. SSRIs, this is antidepressants, they only work two percentage points better than

a placebo. So they're desperate for new tools. We have a mental health crisis in this world and it got th. th. th. th. th. they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they th. they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they don't they don't they don't they don't they don't they don't they don't they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. they're th. th. th. th. thi. thi. the. the the tho to to to to to to to to the theat theat the. theat the. they don't they they they they they th for new tools. We have a mental health crisis in this country in this world and it got worse during COVID. Definitely. So there is an eagerness to do the research necessary to prove that psychedelics can help. And we really could be on the verge of a revolution in mental health care. Thank you so much for joining me on the show. Thank you, Trevor. I appreciate having you here. I'm a big fan. Don't forget people. Michael's book, This is Your Mind on Plants, is available now. I could

not recommend this enough. We're going to take a quick break, but we'll be right back after this. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. You're rolling? But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News.

Listen to 60 Minutes, a second look on Apple podcasts starting September 17. Well, that's our show for tonight, but before we go, today is Glad's Spirit Day, where millions of Americans wear purple as a sign of support for LGBTQ youth and to speak out against bullying. So, any donations that come in today will not only be matched, but they'll be doubled. So if you want to help out, please visit the link below and donate. Until next time, stay safe out there. Get your vaccine.

And remember, if you can't make it to Hong Kong to sleep on the bus, try sleeping in a bed. Watch the Daily Show, weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central, and stream full episodes any anytime on Paramount Plus. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at, that's what's incredible.

I'm Seth Done of CBS News, listen to 60 Minutes, a second look on Apple podcasts starting September 17th. This has been a Comedy Central Podcast.