The Daily Show: Ears Edition - Disagree to Agree - Government Spending Debate | Monica Lewinsky

Episode Date: October 7, 2021

Trevor's two "brothers" debate a congressional spending bill, The Daily Show explains how Hollywood works, and activist Monica Lewinsky discusses her documentary "15 Minutes of Shame." Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes a second look on Apple podcasts starting September 17th. Great news by the way, the World Health

Organization has announced that they now have a vaccine for malaria. Yeah. Well that's not the enthusiasm I was hoping for, but I guess as Americans you guys are just like, oh, who cares? This is huge for Africa people. You know, people die of malaria in Africa and now like that's just like it's it, it's on now. It's like, you know? And you see, this is what, this is what, whoever made this vaccine figured out the way to make vaccines. tha tha tha tha tha tha thii, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. Well, th. Well, th. Well, th. Well, th. Well, thi, thi, th. Well, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thi, thi, thi, thin, thin, thin, that, that, that that that that that that that thateeauuuuuuuui. And, that that that thatea. And, that, this is what, whoever made this vaccine figured out the way to make vaccines. Because they were like, oh, it's taken us a hundred years to make this Valeria vaccine. Now everyone in Africa is going to be like, we need that vaccine.

We need that vaccine. We need that vaccine. We need that vaccine. That was the problem with this new, oh yeah, we're going to try and make a vaccine. We got it. And then Americans were like, I don't want it. What they should have done is they should have been like, all right guys, we got a 50 at best.

Not everybody's going to get the vaccine. So let's hope for the best. Then Americans will be like, I will kill you for that vaccine. Scarcity, my friends. That's what they should have done. Malaria, gone, boom. Now what a mosquito is going to do? Nothing. I almost missed the edge of being bitten by a mosquito,

where I didn't know how it was going to end. This is like a weird, like, you know, every time I'd get bitten by a mosquito, any way I was traveling in Africa, I'd always be like, is this the day? Now it's just like, nah, this shit's just gonna itch. Coming to you from the heart of Times Square, the most important place on earth. It's the Daily Show. Late Dees settle up. The government makes it rain. And Monica Lewinsky. This, this, this, this, this, this, this is is is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is the the the the day is the day is their Late fees settle up. The government makes it rain.

And Monica Lewinsky. This is the Daily Show with Trevor Noah. Hey, what's going on everybody? Welcome to the Daily Show. I'm Trevor Noah. Let's jump straight into today's headlines. We kick things off with the public library. The best place to find a faded poster of LLKooljay. As much as people love libraries, nobody likes those late fees that pile up if you forget to return a book.

Because it's weird, right? Like, librarians are the nicest, gentlest people in the world, and then they just spring on you. It's like, enjoy the cat in the hat, sweetie, and have it back by Tuesday, or I will fucking drown you in death. Well, now, some libraries are throwing in the towel. The nation's largest public library system says it's dropping all late fees for overdue books and other borrowed materials forever. In addition, library card holders have had their accounts wipe clean of any earlier fines.

The idea is to encourage more people to use library resources. A spokesperson said that for people who can afford them, fines do little to encourage returning books on time, but for people who are struggling financially, those fines become a barrier to using libraries. 300 library systems across the country have already canceled fees. And while they typically generate 3 to four million dollars a year here in New York, library officials say they can make up the difference some other revenue sources. Wow, no more late fees.

That's actually really exciting. I've never been to a bookless library before. No, but this actually is great news, right? They'll just charge you the price of the book if you never return it. Which makes the whole library experience so much more relaxed, you know? Like I love libraries, but there's so many rules, so many rules. No smoking, no cockfighting rings. Loosin' up, people. Although, I will be honest, I'm kind of going to miss late fees, you know, it was the only thing forcing me to actually finish my library books. Like if I didn't have that nickel a week hanging over me, I never would have found out why that catapuil was so hungry.

I actually never found out. I just, yeah, I never did. And like they said, libraries don't need late fees. They they can find other sources of revenue, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, I their, I their, I their, I their, I their, I their, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, their, I. their, I. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, th. th. thi. thi. to. to. to too, too, too, too, to. too, to., a vending machine that only sells food you eat quietly, or renting out hollow books for assassins to keep their guns in. Hell, they could start renting out libraries on Airbnb. I think it's a perfect idea. It's quiet. There's furniture.

You can have sex in it. There's a 75-year-old woman who lives there, who you can talk to, but don't have to to talk to talk to to to to to to to to to to to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, and to, and to, and to, and the, and the the the the, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and, and their, their, their, their, their, their, their, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tho, the, thean, thean, thean, thean, their their their their their their their their, their, their, the but don't have to talk to. It's just like an Airbnb. Moving on. These days we talk a lot about systemic racism and how subtle discrimination is baked into all levels of society. But it's important to remember that America is not all like that. There's also very obvious one-on-one racism. So imagine moving your family into your dream home to start a new life only to find yourself subjected to non-stop harassment from your new neighbor. That's what a black family in Virginia Beach has been

living with. They describe an escalating campaign of racial slurs, loud music, and monkey noises were started so racist and it's disgusting, like I don't even know how it's to explain it. The minute I opened my front door, his lights blank or my music or my song comes on. Local police say, while the behavior is appalling, it's disgusting, like I don't even know how it was to explain. The minute I opened my front door, his lights, or my music or my song comes on. Local police say, while the behavior is appalling, it is not criminally actionable. Are you shitting me? I can't even believe that this is a real story in real life. And honestly, I actually find this kind of racism so baffling because this guy may be playing loud music and noises to harass his neighbors, but... he's the one closest to the music and the loud noises..... thing. thing. th. th. It is th. It is th. It is th. It is th. It is thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the the the the thi. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. their, their their their their their their their their loud music and noises to harass his neighbors,

but he's the one closest to the music and the loud noises. Like, is your racism really worth it if you can't even have a conversation in your own house? Hey, honey, I'm really ruining life for that black family! What? No, I'm not coming back from any day. No! The black family! I'm going damn! I love you in too! And I'm sorry, th! th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the the thi. Like, thi, thi, thi, thi, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. Like, thi. Like, thi. Like, thi. Like, thi. Like, thi. Like, thi. Like, thi. Like, thi. thi. Like, thi. thi. thi. thi. Like, thi. Like, thi. Like, thi. Like, thi. Like, thi. Like, thi. Like, the black family. I'm going damn. I love you, too. And I'm sorry, man, but the police claiming that they can't do anything, that's such bullshit. Why don't they use one of those vague laws that they charge black people with all the time, like disturbing the peace, or your house has a broken tail light, sir? But yeah, I guess some people are just

assholes. And without the police on their side, the Martinez family doesn't have a lot of options to stop the music and the monkey noises from playing. Although, one thing they could do is release some actual monkeys into the neighborhood. Yeah, because think about it. Being racist is fun until a monkey he hears mating sounds. Next thing you know, your racist ass is getting pounded by a monkey, all because you didn't want black neighbors. And finally, to the big celebrity news that everyone is talking about. No, not Brittany finally being able to watch PG-13 movies. I'm talking about the radical interior decorating of pop star, Megan Traynor. When you're married, it can

often feel like you do everything together with your significant other you know watching shows going shopping you name it. But one celebrity well let's just say this couple is taking it to the next level when it comes to togetherness. Singer Megan Traynor had two toilets installed next to each other in her bathroom so that she and her husband can go to the bathroom at the same time. We've only pooped twooooooooo o twice twooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo- t t the-s the-s the-s. the same the-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-s. the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same. the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same. the same the same. the same. the same the same. the same. the same. the same the same. the same. the together together together together together together. together together together together together together together together together together the together the the the the the the same. the same time. We've only pooped together twice. We pee at the same time a lot. White people. This really shows you how different relationships can be, right? Like you have some people who are like, I never fart in front of my spouse and then you have other couples going, honey I just booked a couple's dump for later tonight and I hope to see you there. And get that, they've pooped together not once but twice. I mean twice says a lot. Twice says you did it once and then

looked at each other like we should do that again. And they think this brings them closer as a couple but I also think it could backfire. Excuse the pun-the-pane. Like if her husband never gets constiped the's going to think he's having an affair. All I'm saying is I would never do this. Like, I only pooped the normal way, right? Next to a stranger with a one-inch wall between us, how God intended. But let's move on to our top story. Money. It's why you used to leave dead teeth under your pillow like a psychopath.

And now Congress is fighting over just how much of it to spend. President Biden is launching a public campaign for a massive social spending bill and working behind the scenes to make it smaller, telling fellow Democrats that the multi-trillion dollar plan will have to be cut by more than one-third. He and House Democrats spent the morning discussing what to cut in order to secure the votes they need. That's like saying, pick your favorite child. These are good programs. Democrats told the president they're most wedded to the bill's new climate protections,

paid family leave, universal pre-K, and an extension of the child tax credit. But that leaves other measures in limbo, including two free years of community college, and adding dental and vision coverage to Medicare. Republicans are unified in their opposition to the plan. What our colleagues are proposing and planning is absolutely jaw-dropping. I mean, I don't actually have a jaw, but if I did, it would be dropping right now. Yeah, but that's right.

The Democrats are fighting with each other over how to spend the government's money, and the Republicans don't want them to be spending any money. And as always, whenever there's a debate in America, the two sides retreat to their echo chambers. Like, instead of sitting in a room and talking things out, and I'll be honest, guys, I'm guilty of that too. Like in my family, we don't agree on anything politically. I've got two brothers, one of them is way more liberal than me, and then the other one is super conservative. And we've also lost the ability to hash things out.

So I've decided that instead of being part of the problem, I'm going to try being part of a panel. In our brand new segments, disagree to agree. Well, Trey Traverius, thank you for joining me on the show. Glad to be here, Cuck. I am not a cuck, but thank you. And welcome, Trey. Thank you, Cuck. What, you too? Yes, but I'm saying it in a good way. Don't be ashamed of your kinks, Trevor. I honor your cuckiness.

I'm not ashamed, and I'm not a cuck. What you should be ashamed of is being a shill for the corporate media. What are your masters at Viacom telling you to plug today? Huh? Nothing. They don't tell me to plug any. Well, actually, there's this new show on Paramount Plus. It's a new Star Trek show. And, yeah, no, you know what?

That's not important. That's not important, right? Let's just get into the subject at hand. have strong opinions on Biden's spending bill. So I just wanted to hear your thoughts. My thoughts are that we're broke-ass bitches, Trevor. This country is already $29 trillion in debt. We can't be spending another $3.5 trillion we don't have. Uh, I'm not going to take counting advice from the guy who thinks Trump won by 97 jibririllion votes. Besides, all of these programs will be fully paid for with the tax increases on the rich.

We're coming for that billionaire money like we're Grimes's lawyer. Here we go again, with the raising taxes on the wealthy. Well, guess what, buddy? The wealthy are the job creators. If you keep taxing them, they're not going to create jobs. What jobs? You mean the guy who designs Jeff Bezos's peniship? We don't want those kinds of jobs.

It's time for the rich to stop leaching off of this country. Motherfucker, you're rich. Do not call me the R word. I am upper, upper middle class, okay? Okay, guys, calm down. Let's bring it down. This is getting messier than that time. We all try to sloat out of mom's birth canal at the same time. So let's slow this down. Okay, Travarius, here's my question. If the spending bill is fully paid for, that's a good thing. You have to admit, right? I don't th admit. the Democrats. the Democrats. the Democrats. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. the Democrats. the Democrats. the Democrats. the Democrats. Tre, the Democrats. Tre, the Democrats. the Democrats, the Democrats, the the, the, thi. thi. thi. thi. thia, thia, thiaicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicicic. to. to. to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to, thi. to, thi. thi. thi. thi. thiiiiii. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. toe. that's a good thing. You have to admit, right?

I don't admit. Because the Democrats are using a bunch of accounting tricks to make it look like it's paid for, but it's not. Trust me, I broke into the budget office on January 6th. I saw the projections. I wish you hadn't confessed that on air. Look, I'm sorry. I don't live in a fantasy world where all this spending won't cost anything and won't cause inflation to explode.

I mean, have you seen the price of gas lately? I drive a Tesla. Jinks, I knew it! Well done. But if anyone is living in a fantasy world, it's you right-wingers. You have no idea what it's like for the average person out there. You want everyone to go back to work. But how are they supposed to do that when child care in this country is basically cocoa melon on an iPad?

That's why we need this bill. Okay, hold up. Why should my tax dollars help you raise your gender-neutral kids? They're not my kids. I decided not to have any. You decided not to have any. Your wife left you. Hey, we mutually decided to kick me out of the house. And by the way, Trevor, thanks for letting me crash. Yeah, I got you, I got you, I got you. You do have to admit. Some of these programs make sense. I mean, like paid sick leave, don't people deserve that?

Look, America has the greatest economy in history because people go to work whether they're sick or not. It's worked for 200 years. Let's not fuck around with it now. You realize that basically every developed country already has this stuff, right? This isn't like a novel idea. Yeah, you know who else has all of this stuff? Venezuela.

That's what happens when the government promises to take care of everything for everybody. Get the wheelbarrow of cash, honey! We've got to buy a slice of bread! So you don't think that people... Venezuela? Venezuela? So you don't think that people should have an opportunity, like, you don't think people deserve basic services that could help them to live in a world where they don't have their survival defined by... Guys, guys, guys, please.

Who? Now I see why Chuck T Todd always looks so tired. Can you just talk properly? You know what, Travarius? Maybe you're not affected by children or sick people. But the issue that does affect you is climate change. And yeah, this bill spends a lot of money on climate change now, but if we don't pass it, we'll be spending a lot more money when Miami goes underwater. And I'm pretty sure Pit Bull can't swim.

Oh, so now you care about Miami. You told me you wanted to saw Florida off into the ocean. I didn't say that. I just tweeted a gift of Bugs Money doing that. It's completely different. Okay. Guys, guys, look, I don't think we're going to come to an agreement here tha that. It's completely different. It's a joke. Okay, guys, look, I don't think we're going to come to an agreement here today. So if you don't mind, could you just give me your final thoughts?

Look, this is the bottom line. We're creating an entitlement mentality in this country. If you just give people free stuff, they have the to work, thaeea, tha, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, toe, toe, toe, toe, to to toe, toe, toe, to to to to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the to........ I. I. I. I. I.a, to, to.a, the the the the the the the the the the, the. theananan. thean. too. too, theanananan. too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, the to stuff, they have no incentive to work for it. But we have people working two jobs who still can't afford to live. Exactly! And that incentivizes them to get a third job. The system works. You know what I find rich? What I find rich is how you keep saying that there's no money left. But when conservatives were in power,

ooh, you spent that money like you won the power ball. Yeah, and you see, we had to spend that money, because we knew that when you came in, you would waste it all. Guys, guys, guys, guys, guys. You're obviously far apart on all of these issues, but you must recognize that for anything to get done in this country, people are going to have to compromise and find some common ground and work together, right? That sounds like some weak centrist bullshit to me. Yeah, you know what, he's right. You sound like a little bitch, Trevor. Well, at least you guys agree on something. Thanks for joining me

guys. All right, when we come back, we'll find out how Hollywood really works. And Monica Lewinsky will be joining me on the show. You, you. You, you. You, you. You, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. Right, right, right th. Right, right the, right the, right the the. Right, right the. Right, right the. Right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, when we come back, we'll find out how Hollywood really works. And Monica Lewinsky will be joining me on the show. You don't want to miss it. I mean, maybe I don't think you guys will do. This mother fight with each other like that. I'll only come back because you pay me a beer in tmereen. With my mom. Brothers we could have done a better job with encouraging people to check? Civil. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access

to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes, a second look on Apple podcasts starting September 17. Welcome back to the Daily Show. During the COVID pandemic, many schools switched to remote learning. And it was a total success that everyone loved. So we have the Daily Show also created a remote learning program except ours skips calculus and grammar in favor of lessons that you

will actually need in life. So grab a pencil and a pen and prepare to attend another class of remotely educational. How Hollywood works. This is Hollywood. Home of the major motion picture studios who produce all your favorite movies. The filmmaking process begins with a writer's idea for a new story. The writer toils day and night to turn that idea into a script. The studio then throws away the script and green lights a reboot of an older idea. After the script selected, the movies cast with children of celebrities and actors the producers want to have sex with.

Now that the movies cast, it's time to go into production in Atlanta, where tax advantages and lower wages attract all of Hilewood's left-wing executives. Once the movie's been shot, a rough cut sent to Beijing, where senses make sure the film doesn't offend party leadership. After a few edits, the film enjoys a red copper premiere, with, and th, and th. th. th. th. th. th. And, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and the movie, and the movie, their, the movie, the movie, the movie, the movie, the movie, the movie, the movie, the movie, the movie, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, the movie, the movie, the movie, the movie, the movie, the movie, the movie, the movie, the movie, the movie, the movie, the movie, the movie, the movie, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thii. the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movie, the movies, the film doesn't offend party leadership. After a few edits, the film enjoys a red copper premiere, with stars dressed in evening wear, and then a wide release with the general public dressed in sweatpants. And finally, it's buried deep in the menu of a streaming service where few people will ever find it.

But that's all right, because chances are, the movie was terrible anyway. And that is how Hollywood works. All right, when we come back back back backinsky will be joining me on the show. You don't want to miss it. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's, the show anyways. the th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th at th at th at that that that's that that's thate thate tho thi that's thate tho- th th th th th th th th tho- tho- tho- tho- tho- tho- thi thi tho- tho- tho- th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thin thin tho to to be to be to be to be toeanananananananananananananananananananananananananananananananananananananan woanananan wo' to to to the treasures in our archives.

But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes, a second look on Apple podcasts starting September 17. Welcome back to the Daily Show. My guest tonight is producer and activist Monica Lewinsky. She's here to talk about her brand new documentary that unpacks our culture of public shaming.

Monica Lewinsky. Welcome to the Daily Show. Thank you, Trevor. Nice to be here. It's a pleasure to have you here. Before we get into the interview, I did one of this. Does everybody call you Monica Lewinsky always? It's like... No. Well, I guess in a professional setting in an interview, maybe, people either do that or I've also felt people very familiarly will call me Monica. Let's talk about the reason you're on the show today. Fifteen minutes of shame. A new documentary film that's going to be premiering on HBO Max tomorrow and it delves into a subject that you yourself, you know, you refer to

yourself as patient zero. You know, you say I am the patient zero of this whole thing and really you were because your story blew up right when the internet was really becoming a thing. Information was flying across the globe. So my first question to you as as a human in this, why would you want to go to to to to to to to to to to to to to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to to to to to to to to to to the to the the the the the the their that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the flying across the globe. So my first question to you as a human in this, why would you want to go back into that? Why would you want to delve back into a story that I can only assume was one of the worst periods of your life? I think had my life unfolded differently and had there been a different path that allowed me to get back on a more normal developmental path or to get a job path that allowed me to get back on a more normal developmental

path or to get a job and move forward in life, I'm not 100% sure I'd be an anti-bullying advocate at the moment. But really what happened for me was after graduate school, I realized that I couldn't run away from what happened. I had to integrate it and they had to do a lot of work around that and in the process of that, in that time span, it just became clear that what happened to me, and I made a mistake, but what happened to me was now happening to many other people, especially young people. It's not easy. This isn't easy for me to do, but it's important, I think it's important work. And when I hear from people that it's been meaningful, whether it's a teacher who's helped a student or something else, and I think that's me and everybody who's working in this space,

it of course is worthwhile. You know what's really interesting about this subject for me is, the concept of being shamed online is one that I feel is constantly going to evolve, in that what I love about this film that you've helped create is you take us through the story and the journey of shaming. You know, you take us to a time before internet, before newspapers even. It's like, here we are, we're going to tar and feather people, we're going to stone people in a public square. There's always this idea of shaming the person with that punishment. But as the internet has grown, the thing I've often said to people is,

there was a world where it would be celebrities or people who are in some status position who will be shamed. But because of social media, it is only inevitable that everybody will achieve some level of celebrity that will then enable them to be shamed on their their their their their the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the celebrity that will then enable them to be shamed on the same level. And I feel like that's what you've started talking about in these stories is it's gone from being presidents and actors to now just being a high school girl, to now just being

a man who works in a factory, to now just being somebody who took a picture with their family and the picture was taken the wrong way. That seems like a change in how society's looking at who to bully and who to shame. Absolutely, you're 100% right. I think that one of the factors, and we do take people through this in the film, is around the idea of how shame had been used since the beginning of thein' the printing press was invented it all of a sudden

leapfrogged into being something that could now be commoditized. And then once the tabloid culture bled into every area of our culture, you know, leading up to Princess Diana's death, which you know was a function of paparazzi live in that world, the tabloid world right, that's where their income comes from and so there was that moment and that was only th th th th th th th th th only th only th only th only th only th only th o th o th tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho-a tho-a tho-a tho-a tho-a tho-a tho-a th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho thoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. to. to., the tabloid world, right? That's where their income comes from. And so there was that moment, and that was only five months before 1998. So we didn't make a cultural shift. And the internet being there when 98 happened,

it then grew from there. But I think what we're seeing now, too, is that this is very much about power. It's about, like, are there people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people their their th? thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, and thi, and that's that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and th. And, and th. And, and th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, that's that's that's that's the, that the, th power, right? It's about, like, are there people in power who should face consequences? Right. Absolutely. But are there people who are not in positions of power, who are facing the same consequence. And it's ruining their lives in a way that is very different.

Yes to that, too. And I'm not sure, I think, you know, so it's not only people in power, but it's also the power too that we have as citizens as people, right? It's trying to try to a mob, really? Yeah. But you know, I think, you know, I don't know how you feel about cancel culture and kind of, the term cancel culture, but I think for me it's just become a little little to be a little, to, to, to, the to, their, to, their, their, to, to, their, to, to, their, to, as, as, as a, as a, as, as, as a, as, as, as, as, as, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, is, as, is, as, as, is, is, is, is, is, is, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as a..... to, as a.c. to.c.c.c.c. to.c.c. to. to. to. to. to, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as,think when I look at it is I go, I think everyone says cancel culture and it seems like it embodies everything and I go well sometimes it's consequences, sometimes it's criticism and I think it has become a broad term that doesn't enable us enable us to have better

conversations about which aspects of it. I agree we want to monitor. That's what I loved in the film. Yeah. You specifically don't just go, the, I'm. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. th. th. th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's to to thee. to the. to the. to the. the. the. the. the. the. th not use the internet and let's not poke. You know, let's not poke at people. You talk about all the upsides. I think there really is a kind of a beauty and a beast to the internet. And we see it with, you know, look at the social change that is happening. We call it shaming for change, but around hashtags with me too, that that kind of power that can come come, th, th, th, that that is, that kind of power that can come from the social tool is,

shame as a social tool, is invaluable. And that's giving a power to people who haven't had a voice for a long time, to hold others accountable. But then you do have instances, you know, we have all shades of gray in the film, including the clip that you showed, right. is th, th and that is th and th and that is tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, the, the that, the, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, the, and, and, and, and, and, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, they, they, they, tooomoomoomorrow, ta, ta, ta, thea, thea, their, their, their, their, their, the film, including the clip that you showed, is somebody who never made a mistake. In fact, the opposite.

She did everything that you were supposed to do and then some, and face this just horrific, horrific white supremacist mob online. You know, one thing the documentary made me realize, and I know that I've been guilty of this as well. I've been on both sides of it. I've been publicly shamed like you know I've had my canceling moments and all of that but I know that I've also been part of mobs and what's interesting is when you're in the mob though there's a disconnect between you and the human and so you don't even realize the size of the pebble that you're throwing because it's the the the the the the the the thrown. the the the thr-in. thr-in, throwning, thr-in, throwning, throwning, thr-in, throwning, thr-I, throwing, throwing, th throwing, thr-I's throw, throw, the, the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I's the, I's the, I I's the, I I I I's the, I I I I I I's is is is is is the, I I I I I I's, I's, I's, I's, I's is is the, I's, I's, I's, I's-in, I's-in, I's-in, I's-in, I'm thin, I'm thin, I'm thin, I'm thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, th thin, I'm th thin, I'm thin, Ibble that you're throwing because it gets combined with everyone else So you know I remember back in the day. It's like oh Tiger Woods and then I was like I've got a joke about tiger woods

And I'll tweet this because it's funny. It's just me. It's by myself and then it gets amplified to? thea. theau. the mob you're part of it. thrown. to, it. th. th. thrown. thrown. thrown. thrown. the the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the's. the's. the's. the's the's the's the's thea. thea. It's thea. It's thea. It's thea. It's thea. It's thea. It's thea. It's thea. It's thea. thea. thea. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. thee. thee. twee. twee. twee. twee. twee. twee. twee. twee go, whoa, whoa, whoa, I wasn't trying to do that to somebody. I thought it was harmless, I thought it was meaningless, but it went to one human being. And so is that like, as somebody who's experienced it, is that why it was important for you to show the people behind the stories, to understand the story holistically? Absolutely. I think not only, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I tho, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I think, I think, I think, I think, thi, thi, thin, thin, thin, that, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thed, thed, thed, thed, thed, thed, thed, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thed, thed, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, really what felt important was for people to come to understand what happens in these shamings and what does it feel like to be on the receiving end of that title wave of negativity and it's not even, it's exacerbated from being just shamed but also can be violent. Right. So I mean, and that violence doesn't just live particularly for women.

It doesn't always just live online. So I think too that there was, you know, we don't get to know these people of who they were the moment before. Whatever it is happened, happened, right? And so I think in the same way, and I understand that, I was, I didn't have much of a history to, you know,

what happened to me in 98. This this this this this this this was, this was, this was, this was, this was this was th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th was th was th was th was th was thi, thi, thoom was thi, thi, thi, thoomoomoomomoomomoomomom and I was, thoomomomomomomom and I was, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, the, know, what happened to me in 98, this was my first job out of college. So there, you know, wasn't much there. But that sense of, and that is one of the really emotionally devastating experiences around having a shaming like that is that feeling, the irony of being so seen and not being seen at all for who you truly are. Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. And so I think that there's, and we haven't... You spend all your time, time trying to claw back the you that people don't see.

Exactly. Because they've defined you now. Everyone goes, this is who you are. And I grew up like thrown, and I have parents and I have family and I have friends and I make good decisions and you know what I mean? Yes and in that way your narrative runs away from you it's your identity is stolen and I think you're so right about the mob mentality you know one of the things I don't know maybe it's written somewhere but I'm sort of fascinated by this idea of you know did people in stoning times did people pick up more than one stone or was it they they they they they they they they they they they they they th............ I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I was. I was. I was. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm.... I'm......... I'm. I'm... I'm. I'm. I. I. I'm. I'm. I. I'm. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I... I.................................................................................................................................................. the.. the.. the... the.. than one stone? Or was it, they threw one stone and they had the moment of seeing the person's reaction, you know, an energetic feeling of someone, you know, what it felt like to be hit by that stone? I don't know, but today with, you know,

they call it the online disinhibition effect. So this sense of what happens online is that because you're dealing with a screen and not another person, you take on a different identity, that a lot of these behaviors and the ways that we see empathy and feel empathy are just, you're unable to see that, you're unable to feel it online. You know what I think it is? I think if we're not careful as people, we stop seeing each other as people and then we live in a world where you know we take on these avatars as humans, we go after the other humans, we don't realize it's happening, then we're all walking around with traumas and pteas and anxieties and what but but that's not who we actually are. It's like a

a fake polarization that then happens and so before I let you go I'd love to to know as somebody who experienced the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thus thus thus thus thus thus the thus thus the to thus to the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. the. the. the the. the. the the. the thea. toe. too. toe. toe. to to to to to to to to to I'd love to know, as somebody who experienced, arguably, the greatest level of public shaming that human beings have seen, I mean, across continents, your name was uttered. I'd love to know how you figured out a way to go, like, you know what? Yeah, I am Monica Lewinsky, yeah, everyone has made these shitty jokes about me. Yes, the whole country at some point was saying this. But you know what, I'm now gonna take control of my, I'm gonna reclaim my narrative. How did you do that? It was definitely not a straight line to that, and it was not a linear process at all.

So I think that it happened for me, it happened in stages because also my ability to even see, and understand what had happened to me, and the consequences of some of those things didn't become apparent for years for a decade. It wasn't until I got out of graduate school. I had a master's in social psychology from London School of Economics and I couldn't get hired. Wow. You know and so then I started to realize oh this is a lot more damage to me to what had happened than I had realized at that point.

And I didn't set out to reclaim my narrative. I set out to heal. And healing for me was, I mean, I would try anything. I did a lot of consciousness and energy work, but it also had a lot of therapy. So I think it was this process. And as I changed, the world was also changing. But it eventually became, it was around seeing what was now happening, this new landscape online

to other people that made me realize, well there may be some validity or some help in like, if I'm the poster child for having been publicly shamed, and my life may not be great right now but I'm still here that might help someone and so that that sort of began the process and it was it was actually the younger generations you know I was grading Carter gave me a chance to write a first-person essay for Vanity Fair in 2014 and what that meant was I wasn't going to be defined through a journalist's eyes I was going to define myself I was going to say what I wanted I was to say th to say to say to say to say to say to say to say to say to say to say to say to say to say to say to say to say to say to say to say to say to say to say to say to say th. th. th. th. that I that I to say that I that I that I that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the thi. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the the the the the the't going to be defined through a journalist's eyes.

I was going to define myself. I was going to say what I wanted, and it was the younger generations who insisted that the older generations, who had really been around at the time, said, whoa, whoa, let's stop and have a rethink about this situation. Not to say I shouldn't have had some blame. I certainly try to take responsibility for those thing situation. Not to say I shouldn't have had some blame, I certainly try to take responsibility for those things, but the idea that I bore more responsibility and more the consequences were way worse for me than they were for the most powerful man in the world and some of the other people in the scandal all

20 years older than me is insane. So I you know and I hope from all the projects I do with this documentary, with American the the the the the the the the the the the the thiiiii-in c crime crime crime crime crime crime crime crime crime crime crime crime crime crime crime crime crime crime crime crime the the the the th, th, th, th and th, and th, and thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. But thi thi thi thi thi thi. But thi. But thi thi thi. thi thi. th. th. thi thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. But thi. I thi. I thi thi thi thi thi thi the the the the the the thee theee the theeee theee thi you know, and I hope from all the projects I do with this documentary, with American Crime Story Impeachment, anything else, that it is, that it just kind of chips away at what it is that happened to me, so that can't happen to someone else. I feel you there. I appreciate you. Thank you for taking the time.

Thank you for making us ask a few tha tha tho tho tho to to to tho to to to tho tho to tho to tho tho thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, taking the time. Thanks, Travis. Thank you for making us ask a few questions about ourselves, because I think, you know, the mistake we make sometimes in society is we like to make it seem like other people are always shitty, when I think we all have a little shittiness inside of us, and we don't even realize what that shittiness is,ing at other people. So thank you for telling the story. Thank you for joining me on the show. Thank you. It's been wonderful having you. Yeah, thank you. 15 Minutes of Shame will be available to stream on HBO Max October 7th. We're going to take a quick break, but we'll be right back after this. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 minutesutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives.

But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes, a second look on Apple podcasts starting September 17. Well, that's our show for tonight. But before we go, this week is Mental Illness Awareness Week. So please consider supporting the ACOMA project. The ACOMA project offers free, virtual therapy and workshops for teens and young adults of color, as well as educating youth

and their families on the importance of mental health. So, if you want to support them in this work, then please donate at the link below. Until tomorrow, stay safe out there, get your vaccine, and remember, life is short. So tonight, sit your loved ones down, and poop with them. Just poop. Watch the Daily Show, Week Nights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central, and stream full

episodes anytime on Paramount Plus. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes a second look on Apple podcasts starting September 17. This has been a Comedy Central podcast.