The Daily Show: Ears Edition - Donald Trump and Emmanuel Macron: A True Bromance | Jonah Goldberg

Episode Date: April 25, 2018

A Pennsylvania golf club calls the police on black female golfers, France's Emmanuel Macron hits it off with President Trump, and Jonah Goldberg talks "Suicide of the West." Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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April 24, 2018. From Comedy Central's World News Headquarters in New York. This is the Daily Show with Trevor Noah, Ears Edition. Thank you so much for shooting in. I'm Trevor Nguyen, everybody. Thank you so much for shooting and I'm Trevor Noah. Our guest tonight from the National Review and also a fascinating new book, Suicide in the West, Jonah Goldberg is joining us. Thank you so much for coming out, everybody.

First up, before we get into the news, let's just catch up on this developing story. After the situation at Starbucks, we've heard multiple stories about people getting the cops called on them for being black in public. But yesterday's story might be the craziest. Five women claim that they are victims of racial profiling after they say the owners of a Pennsylvania golf course asked the group to leave the course. Women say workers in Grandview Golf Club kicked them out halfway through the game when the workers said that the women were playing too slow. Northern York County police confirm authorities were called to the course Saturday afternoon. And at that point, the cell phone video confirms the club owners, the women, the women, the women, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th., th., the women, the women, the, the, the, the, the, the, the women, the women, the, the women, their their their their, their, their, their, their their their their their their their their their their their, their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the, the, the, the, the. 0. thean. thooooooooomoomorrow, thoooomorrow, thoooomorrow, thea, thea at that point the cell phone video confirms the club owners were telling the women to leave.

Remove yourself from our premises in the next five minutes, please. Because the authorities have been called. I'm sorry, but this is insane. These dudes called the cops because a group of black women were playing golf too slow. Like black people can't win in America, right? If you advance on white people, you're a threat. If you run away from them, you're suspicious. And now they call the cops on you when you take your time,

it's golf. That's what golf is for. Like, you know what the problem in America is? Is that white case, the police handled it correctly, you know, and there were no arrests. In fact, I like to think the police only showed up because they didn't believe that there were five black women playing golf. They were like, Marty, bring the camera. This is going to be insane. I'm glad that nothing happened to the women, but I would like to hear the sports the sports, the sports, the sports, the sports, the sports, the sports, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, I, their, their, I, I, their, and I'd their, and I'd the police, to their, and I'd the police, and I'd the police, and, and, and I'd too, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the police, the police, the police, I would the police, I would the police, I would the police, I would like, I would like, I would like, I would like, I would like, I would like, I would like, I'd their, I'd their, I'd their, I'd their, I'd like, I'm their.. their. their. their. their. their. the police, I'd the police, I'd the police, I'd their, cast for that. If only there was an announcer who was like, okay, so they're teeing up and, oh, a race war is breaking out on the fourth hole. These doushbags have never seen black women before.

All the cops have let them go, very nice, very nice. But let's move on. Let's move on to someone we wish they would kick in the White House and he's doing some French kissing. All eyes on the high stakes meetings between the French and American presidents. French President Emmanuel Macron has arrived in America for the first state visit hosted by President Trump. Mr. Trump rolling out the red carpet, a military welcome on the South lawn, followed by a series of meetings, a joint press conference,

and an elaborate state dinner. Yay! It's President Trump's first state dinner. And if you don't know, a state dinner is basically a full, formal evening. The president hosts the events at the White House, and it's in honor of a visiting foreign leader. It's very lavish, you know, it's usually black tie, although I guess in Trump's case it might just be long tie. Now, it's no accident that the French president is getting the honor of being Trump's

dinner guest, because from the very beginning, while other leaders seem to clash with Trump, Macron was the bell to Trump's beast. Macron has been dubbed the Trump whisperer by some because of their close diplomatic relationship. Syria will also be a focus of these discussions. It was McCrown who convinced President Trump to take action inside that country. Macron says he and Trump have a special relationship. Mr. President, they're all saying what a great relationship we have, and they're actually correct.

It's not fake news. Look, it's not fake news. Look how excited little Donny is, man. Doesn't he look like he just invited his best friend over for a sleepover? It's actually cute. Yeah. It really is. They might even play truth or dare dare to sleep with your wife. Okay, my turn. Dare me to sleep with your wife? How about do we do truth instead? Okay, truth. I want to. to to to to to to to to to to to sleep with your wife? How about do we do truth instead? Okay, truth, I want to sleep with your wife. Now all this fun aside, Macron didn't fly across the Atlantic just to hang out. He came to Washington on a very specific mission to stop Trump from doing something dumb. Macron will spend two days with President Trump on what some have called Operation

Save the Iran deal. As Macron and other European allies have pointed out, there is no starting over really once this Iran deal is scrapped. It becomes virtually impossible to get Iran back to the table and get all the other parties back to the table. Now, you see, that would be bad news. This deal is the only reason that Iran is not advancing its nuclear program. If America backs out, it will even further destabilize the Middle East. So this is really sticky for Macron, because he has to try and save the Iran deal, while also making it seem like Trump is getting what he wants.

It's like America's real drunk right now, and Macron is its wingman. America's just like, I'm gonna kick Iran's ass. Like, yeah, you did, man, you did. You already kicked their ass, buddy, you kick their ass. You got damn right, I did, I want it. I want, I want, ugh! Maga! Now getting Donald Trump to do the right thing is, as we all know, virtually impossible.

Fortunately, Macron, he seems to have the recipe for handling Trump. Because you see, before Mocrrown the the tha thine thine thine thine thine thine thine thine thine thine thine thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi. thi, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to have the recipe for handling Trump. Because you see, before Macron became president, he was an investment banker. So he's an expert in dealing with egotistical rich people. Like, for example, watch how he plays along as Trump shows off his amazing president technology. President Trump gave Macron a personal tour of the Oval Office, pointing out his phone to Mrs. Macron. This is where I speak to your husband. I speak especially on this one this this one this one this this one this one this one this one this one this one this one this one this one this this one this one this one this one this one this one this one this to you, this one. I'll speak especially on this one. I'll show you.

This one. That's the one. That's supposed to be the latest, but who knows now? This one is a secure? That's secure. That's secure. Good system. Like, McCrown is acting the way an adult does when a kid shows them around their playroom. He's like, Macron is acting the way and Adal does when a kid shows them around their playroom. He's like, wow, Donald de phone, can you talk to people on it? He's like, uh-huh.

And you remember all the numbers? No, General Kelly pushes them for me? Oh, and tell me, Donald Donald, do, do, do, do, do, do, do Donald, do, do Donald, do, do Donald, do the they, do their their their their th. Do you th. Do you th. Do you thi? Do you thi? Do you thi? Do you thi, do you tho, do you tho? Do you thi? Do you thi, thi, thi, their? their? their? their? their? their? their? their? their? their? their? their? th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do, th. Do, thi? Do, to? Do, to? Do? No? No? No. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. th. th. th. th for me. Oh, and tell me, Donald, do you go potty like a big boy? Yeah, but my friends in Russia go party on the bed. Now, it's one thing to admire Trump's phone, but the ultimate test is how you handle it when he publicly humiliates you. It's a great honor, great honor that you hear, but we do have a very special relationship. In fact, I'll get that little piece of dandruff for We have to make him perfect. He is perfect

So it is really it is really great to be with you and you are a special friend. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yo, this dude, this dude just picked something white off McCroan's shoulder and then announced it to dandruff like you just announced it as dandruff to the camera????????? Dandruff. dandruff. dandruff. the dandruff. Dandruff. Dandruff. Dandruff. Dandruff. the dandruff. I dandruff. I the the the th. I the th. I the th. I th. I'm a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece. I's a piece. I'm a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the piece a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece a piece. Dandruff. Dandruff. Dandruff. Dandruff. Dandruff. D. D. D. D. the dandruff. the dandruff. the dandruff. the dandruff. th. th. th. th. tie's piece of dandandandandandrea. tie's piece of dandandruff. tipe. tipe. their. their. their. tie's. their and then announced it to dandruff. Like he just announced it as dandruff to the camera. He's like, look, look, I found a dandruff. I found it. And credit to Macron. He just went with it. Yeah. That's diplomacy. Because if I was Macron, I would have clapped back. He would have been like, I would have been like, excuse me, I have dandruff. No Donald. You are a human dandruff. You are the flicks on the scalp of society. I shampoo you from my life. But he was calm. He handled it perfectly.

In fact, every moment Macron handled perfectly. You know, whether it was giving speeches or playing outside, you could really feel that Macron was connecting with Trump. And we all know that Trump is not the sentimental type, but clearly Macron made him feel a way that he's never, ever felt before. Human. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. I like him a lot. That's my prediction. It's only a prediction. Thank you. Thank you very much. Look, like, I, I know it's a cliche, but that's a bromance. Like, that's more affection than he's ever shown Melania.

Yeah, and you know she doesn't care because she knows where those hands have been, but still, we'll be right back. The candidates for November are set. I know Donald Trump's tight. Between now and Election Day. We are not going back. A campaign season unfolding faster. Comelahareris is not getting a promotion. Then any in recent history.

Make America great again. Follow it all with new episodes every weekday on the NPR Politics podcast. Welcome back to the Daily Show. My guest tonight is a senior editor at National Review, an LA Times columnist, American Enterprise Institute scholar and best-selling author whose latest book is called Suicide of the West how the rebirth of tribalism, nationalism, and identity politics is destroying American democracy. Please welcome, Jonah Goldberg. I thought about pawing you up, sort of a Macron versus Trump kind of thing and getting all handsy,

but I decided better not. We should have done that. We should have done like a little handshake into a kiss, into like a little moment into a thing. Yeah, I could have like whispered, I like your musk, which is a way I think he was saying should have done that. We should have done like a little handshake into a kiss, into like a little moment, into a thing. Yeah, I could have like whispered, I like your musk, which is the way I think he was saying to him at one point. It felt like it. It felt like Trump's really into him, which is something that is good for America, yes? Yeah. If it's good for merit for us to get along with, you know, our 200-year-old allies, that's good, right?

Right, right? But if he's only doing it because someone is sucking up to him, less good, right? I mean, it should be they're getting along because we have mutual interests, we have mutual values, right? Right, right? And they reflect that. It shouldn't be because the leader of France says, not only are you a handsome man, you're a powerful man, right? I mean, it shouldn't just be sucking up. It should be something more. I feel like it should just be that. Yeah. Welcome to the show. Great to be here.

Thanks, for coming through. And you have written quite a book here. Suicide of the West. If ever there's a title or the decline of the West, as grim as the title sounds, and it actually doesn't end as grim as it sounds, suicides a choice. You choose to do, to make these decisions that you're making, and I think that one of the things that people don't appreciate is that if you, you can choose not to do them as well, and that a lot of the things that are plaguing this country are within our own power to fix.

Right, it's interesting, because you talk about nationalism, tribalism, all of these things that you believe are leading to the decline of America. When you talk about the decline of America, are you specifically referring to capitalism and the way it's made America thrive over the past 300 years? In part, I mean, I call this thing the miracle, right? But the miracle isn't just capitalism. It's also natural rights, civil rights, free speech, all of the things that we associate with the bill of rights, the idea that the individual sovereign, that we are captains of ourselves, that we are citizens, not subjects, that the government works for us, we don't work for a government.

These are all unbelievably new ideas in the history of humanity. Humanity split off from the Neanderthals like 300,000 years ago, and for most of humanity's existence, we were poor, ignorant, bloody, violent creatures, right? And our human nature hasn't changed. We are still the same creatures we were 10,000 years ago. What has changed are our values, our norms, our institutions. And if you don't have gratitude for them, and if you don't try to protect them, they'll go away.

It's interesting that you say that though, you go if we don't have gratitude for them, if we don't try to protect them. them, them, them, them, them, them, them, them, them, and them, them, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and tho, and tho, to be to be to be to be tho, to be to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to, to, to, to, to to, to to, to to to to to to to to to to to to their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their their, their their their their, their their thooooooomorrow, too, too, and tothem, if we don't try to protect them, because that seems like an argument many people in America will use for one group or another. What's interesting in this book is you refer to both sides of the political spectrum doing similar damage or an idea that may cause damage to that idea in the same way. So for instance, you write for a National Review as a conservative writer, but at the same time, you are not a fan of Trump. I think that's fair. Right. So you are saying that populism, both on Trump's side and on the left, there's a danger of that hurting America's got to power.

There's nothing wrong with a little populism, right? There's nothing wrong with a little nationalism. It's like a pinch of salt brings out the flavor and the meal. Too much ruins the meal and way too much is literally poisonous, right? And so all poisons are determined by the dosage. You know, my favorite New Yorker cartoon, which my wife got blown up for me a few years ago and framed, has two dogs drinking martinis at a bar. One dog says to the other, you know, it's not good enough that dogs succeed. Cats must also fail.

And that's sort of where we are as a culture right now. Where it's not, you know, and this drives me crazy about my own side these days, where I talk to young conservative activists, college students, and I say, look, by all means fight political correctness if that's what you want to do. But just because being rude is politically incorrect doesn't mean being rude is good. And so much of what's happening, I think on both sides of the political aisle, is this idea that you can do almost any horrible thing if it annoys the right people. And that's a huge part of the defense of Donald Trump,

which I just find intellectually bankrupt, which is, well, he's got the right enemies, or he's making the right people upset. Well, you have to look at what is actually upsetting them. And some of the things that upset, you know, liberals and left is I can agree with, you know, I'll support. But some of the other the other the other the other the other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other the other things are just sort of crassness, rudeness for its own sake, and I don't see why I should defend that just because he's on my team as it were. It's interesting that you bring up teams because it does

feel like America is drifting into a space where politics is solely about teams. You pick your team, whatever your team does, the other team, whatever they do you pick the opposite, thew...., the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, they, the, they, they, they, they, they, tha, the, thea, tho, tho, tho, tho, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the, the, the, the, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is they is, is toge. toe. toe. toe. toee. toea. toea. toea. toe. toe. toe. the's is the's is the you pick the opposite you know the ref is biased This is against us. Those are not facts because they don't work in our favor Does this in your opinion lead to a place where the experiment of America begins to decline? Is is that the only thing that's kept it moving or has it just been an illusion that's lasted for 300 years because there were people who were previously? the people who were previously oppressed and that? that was th. th. th. th. thiiiii thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi. thi. thi. tho thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the. the the the the the to the to thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th is th is th is th is th is th is thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the the the the the. the. theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. theeee. the. the., I mean, look, are there bad things in American history that we need to atone for, that we need to fix? Are that we have problems today that we need to still work on? Absolutely. My point is, is that, again, human nature has no history.

Human nature is a constant. We have the, if you took a kid from Neurochal, and you sent th, th, th, th, and th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the, th, th, th, th, th, th, they, they, th, they, they, they, they, they, they, them back to a Viking village to be raised by Vikings a thousand years ago, he would end up going pillaging the English countryside. You take a Viking baby and you bring it to New Rochelle, he's going to grow up to be an orthodontist, right? And... A very big orthodontist, but yeah. And so, these challenges exist in every generation. It is human nature to want want want want to want want want want to want want to want want to want to want want to be to be to be to be to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a thi, thi, thi. to beaqi. tooicic. tooic. th. th. Ia. Ia. Ia. Ia. Ia. Ia. Ia. Ia. Ia. I, thi. I, thi. I, the the the the the the the the thi. Ae. Ae. Ae. Ae. Ae. Ae. Ae. Ae. Ae. Ae. Ae. Ae. Ae. Ae. Ae. Ae. Ae. Ia.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.ato want to be part of your tribe. We are hardwired to be part of a group.

That's how we evolve is to say, I will do everything to help. And Darwin writes about this. I will do everything to help my team, my friends, my kin, my family, my allies, my coalition. And the stranger is the enemy. And what it, you know, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, I will, I will, thi, I will, I will, I will, I will, I will, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, thi, is, thi, thi.. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. the the the the the the thr. to, to, to's a people, you know, there's a common cliche that says people have to be taught to hate. No, they actually have to be taught not to hate. That's what civilizations do is teach people to see, and it starts with Christianity or

Judaism. Let me go way back in the religion in the apartment, but the fundamental insight is that you need to to to to to to to teach, to to teach, to to teach, to teach, to to teach, to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be the to be the the the the, the the, to be to be the the, the the, the the, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be the, not their, not their not their not their not their not their not their not their not their not their their tote, tote, totally, totally, totally, totally totally totally totally toe, their, their, their, their, their note, have human dignity, that strangers are decent people, and just because you don't know them doesn't mean or don't agree with them, it doesn't make them the enemy. And I think we're falling down on that in our politics and our education, and instead we're telling people, just go with your feelings, your rage is more important than facts or argument. And that's where you get populism, that's where you get a lot of nationalism too. But if you have somebody who is trying to end you, how do you then work on responding to that? Because that's something that I'm always trying to figure out in my head is, it's one thing for people to say let's keep politics civil, let's not have an argument, let's

not point each other out as enemies, etc. But there are times when, let's say Charlottesville is a good example, there are people who are literally saying we are Nazis. These people are wishing for the end of other human beings. It's a bit difficult to say, yes, yes, but let us sit with them and engage as they drive over us. It's a very difficult space to be in. I agree with you and look, my last name's Goldberg. I'm not really a turn the other cheek guy. I'm more of a smiting and wrath guy. So I get what you're talking about. But my point is, and I agree with you and tell you about the neo-nazis.

One of the things that infuriates me friggin Nazis were part of our coalition. And I would keep trying to explain to these people, no, you don't understand. They literally say that they want to get rid of people like me, people like you. Why should I form a common group with them just to get this guy elected or just for political purpose or whatever. Some things are existential questions. And I'm not saying that we should have gone to Charlottesville and shot a bunch of Nazis, right? But the idea that somehow they have something important to say that I need to find common ground with them, I think is ridiculous. Right. I also think it's ridiculous to call people who aren't Nazis,

Nazis as a way to demonize them. And I th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks have thinks have them. And I think there's a lot of that that's going on too. And so it's a prudential question, and you have to sort of figure it out as you go. It doesn't mean you can't have big arguments. I've always believed that democracy is about disagreement, not about agreement. It's about having arguments. What I don't like about our politics right now is how people don't matter, that the whole point of the Enlightenment was this idea that you could persuade people. And part of the reason I wrote this book is it's much a cautionary tale to my allies on the right

is that a lot of people are just giving up on persuasion. And instead, it's just hammer and tongues, cats must fail. It's all about power. the arguments in defense of Donald Trump in 2016 were all all all all all all. thine. thine. thiiiiiolololier. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thia. thia. thia. thia. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. their. their. their. the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. toea. toea. toea. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. of Donald Trump in the in 2016 were all about winning and strength. Winning and strength are not, they're absolutely a moral concepts. Winning for what? Strength for what? Unity for what? It has to be the ideas that underlie it and we're in a moment where a lot of people just don't care about ideas anymore. One of the big ideas that you

share in the book is that America needs to focus on less identity politics on both sides and more on merits because merits is how capitalism thrives, merit is what moves a society forward. When you say that though do you think sometimes a statement like that ignores the fact that some people's merit is overlooked because of identity politics. Yeah yeah yeah look you you know it's funny, like most of the liberals I talk to, they like the words, they agree with me on the populism and nationalism and they don't like the, and the tribalism, they don't like the identity politics part, right? I am not saying that you can't, first of all, I'm not saying that there there there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, the their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th is, th is, the, th is, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th is, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, they. is, thi, to, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, there. Obviously there is. What I'm saying is that one of the great and glorious things, and Barack Obama was very eloquent about this about this country is not that America were, the founding fathers were

hypocrites when they started this country. They were, you know, the slavery was a big, you know, hey, what about that? Right? It's a great description. Yeah, but you know what I'm getting it, right? So what happens is the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the same, the the same, the the the the the the f. S. S. S. S. the f. the f. the f. the f. the f. the f. the f. the f. the f. the f. S. S. the f. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. I was is is is is is is is is is is is is is is is is, is is is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thoooooooooeses. the that? Yeah, but you know what I'm getting at, right? And so, what happens is then Abraham Lincoln comes along with the Gettysburg address and he redefines what this country is about, about equality. And then Martin Luther King says, hey, wait a second, a hundred years later, it says, wait a second, the founding fathers were a promissory note to the unfolding of that story that is what matters. And so one of the core values, all civilization is, is the story we tell ourselves about ourselves. And one of the reasons why Martin Luther King was so persuasive is he was appealing to the best ideals of white America and saying, you should take people as you find them.

One of the great things about the American founding, which doesn't get taught anymore is that we got rid rid of titles of nobility. We got rid of the notion that simply by an accident of birth, one person is better than another person. And so a little identity politics, just like a little nationalism in terms of ethnic pride and solidarity, all of that is fine. When you start reducing whole categories of people to an abstraction and say, all I need to know about you is the color of your skin. Right. That's when you get into a problem. And this idea that all white people are racist is, is, first of all, not true.

You know, intermarriage rates between white and blacks are going through the roof. They can't all be racist, right? But I think the argument is less all white people are racist, and the system has been created by white people to oppress people of color. So I think when people say white people are racist, I think that's disingenuous. But most of the time the argument people are saying is, hey, we can admit that this system from the founding fathers through to redlining, through to segregation, was written in such a way that it would benefit one race over another. It would ham ham it would ham it would ham it would ham h h h would ham it would ham it would ham the cats the cats the cats the cats the cats the cats the cat the cat the cat the cat the cat hamper the cats and allow the dogs to succeed.

And look, I think there's obviously a lot of truth to that. At the same time, the definition of who counts as white changed over time. You listen to Benjamin Franklin. It changed for everyone except black people. That's true, and that's true too. And that this country took so long to include everybody in this idea of universal equality. That is not an argument for getting rid of the value of universal equality.

It is to say that we need to be more consistent in applying these ideals rather than saying these ideals themselves are bankrupt. Because it is these ideals that for all of human history, the average human being everywhere on earth lived on average of $3 a day, Africa, Asia, Europe, everywhere. And then once and only once in all of human history, and then once in all of human history. And it's because these ideas start getting put into action. I think we should be, you know, we live in this moment of the greatest alleviation of material poverty in all of human history.

Hundreds of millions of people in Asia and Africa are coming out of poverty. And it's not because of UN programs, they help. It's because of these ideas starting to germinate, lifting people up. Maybe have just a little gratitude for them. Maybe have a little room to say, maybe the entire story of this 300-year miracle isn't a story purely of oppression and tyranny. Were we bad? Did bad things happen in the past? Yes.

Have things been getting better? Yes. Right. You can say both things. You can say both things, nuance. The way I like to think of it is this. I go, capitalism in many ways should be like software on a phone, it constantly needs to be updated. And at some points it feels like the updating has stopped, and people allow it to stagnate in the way that it is.

And to your point of gratitude, before I let you go, I think the one thing, and I wonder if you can maybe understand this, is when people say you should be grateful for what you have, do you not think that gratitude is always relative to the bottom versus the top in where you are Because to say to somebody and you hear this all the time and I'm not saying you're saying Sure, sure sure politicians will say oh black people you complain about America go live in Afghanistan See what that's like. I said but you're not living in Afghanistan if I'm in a Michelin star restaurant and the food is not great, you can't tell me? to???? the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. the th. the th. th. the th. th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. I. I. I. I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the theeeeeeean. I toeeean. I toeeean. I toeean. I'm toeean. I'm toean. I'm the the the the the the the the the 't tell me to go to Arby's because I complain. Right. I'm saying to you, the food is not what it was promised in this restaurant.

So is it not difficult to say to people who have gratitude when they are not living in the promise of what the country is meant to be? Yeah, no, I think that's fair. I think at the same time, for the law, I don't say that to people, right? You know, and I really know it, honestly, I'm not saying that. And so I, one of the first, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, one of the, one, the, the, and look, I mean, I've, I've taken. One of the things I would say to people who make that argument is, stop making that argument. Right. You know, that's not how you should frame this kind of thing. What I would say is that, you know, the pursuit of happiness is,

it's not a guarantee. You have the right to pursue it. And one of the great things about freedom, the miracle, liberal democratic capitalism, whatever you want to call it, is it gives more people the opportunity to pursue it. Could that get better? Yeah. But you can't look at any of the systems we had prior to 300 years ago. And I'm not sure you can look at it to most of the sort of nationalist or socialist systems and say they're better at it. And so when people say we fall short of ideals, I say, well, of course, that's why they call them ideals. You're not supposed to be able to live up. They're supposed to be a North Star, you know.

The thing that you're true North that you march towards and you can always get better at them. My point is is that we shouldn't the the the the we shouldn't throw them away because this is the only game in town in terms of what has actually taken humanity out of the muck of its natural environment. Capitalism is unnatural. Democracy is unnatural. If they were natural, you would think they would show up a little earlier in the evolutionary record than about 299,000 years into our existence here. And so maybe these are things that we should be a little more protective of. The goose, the golden goose came into your house out of nowhere and started, you know, golden

eggs don't sound modern anymore, started squeezing out winning lottery tickets. This is a right analogy, but yeah. But you would, your response to it should be gratitude, not like, give me more, you the their, you more more more more more, you more, you more, you more, you more, you, you, you more, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, thi, thi, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, th. thi, th. th. thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th, th. th. th. thi, thi, thi. thi. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. thi. thickets. This is a word analogy, but yeah. But you would, your response to it should be gratitude, not like give me more, you know, more lottery tickets than you can produce. But that's what the story is about is it's not really so much about greed, it's about ingratitude. It says. I think fundamentally I understand what you're saying. And I think that's what I appreciate about the book is, it makes me think. Thank you. It engages. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It. It. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. It engages. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the the the the the the the the the the the the book is saying is don't throw the baby out with the bottle. That's right, that's right. And we can disagree about the size of government, all these kinds of things, but there's some fundamental things that we should all be able to agree have merit and are worth keeping. You stop the conversation. Thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you very much. Suicide. The Daily Show with Trevor Noears, Ears Edition.

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