The Daily Show: Ears Edition - Eve L. Ewing on Structural Racism & "Ghosts in the Schoolyard"

Episode Date: August 31, 2021

"Ghosts in the Schoolyard" author Eve L. Ewing breaks down the history of racism that led to a series of school closures in the South Side of Chicago. Originally aired in December 2018. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes, a second look, starting September 17th, wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the show. Thanks, thanks for having me. This is so cool

to have you here. Shytown, is that what you shouted? Yeah, that is nice. Okay, you roll with a posse. It's a Chicago thing. They just. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T's th. T's th. T's th. T's th. T's th. T's th. T's th. T's th. T's th. T's th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. S. th. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S, that is a nice. Oh, nice. Okay, you roll with a posse, this is nice. It's a Chicago thing? It's a Chicago thing? They just shout this everywhere you go? All the time. Walking down the street all the time. Okay. That could be very cool and then very distracting at other times. Yes. Um, let's get into a story that story that's that's that's that's that's that's that that that that that that thoes, thoes, thoes, thoes, tho, thio, tho, thi, thi, thu, thu, thu, thu. thu. tho, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi, thi. thi. thi, thi. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thiii. thi. thi. thii. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to America but the story speaks about racism in schools that are being closed on Chicago's South Side. It seems like a problem that many politicians would claim is just a financial issue. You are a

teacher, you are somebody who's worked in this institution. What is the problem itself? Well the problem is that in America we have two different standards for what kinds of education we want to offer young people. So if you have money or if you have access to private school or if you live in an affluent suburb you get access to a certain type of education and if you're poor and you're a person of color, especially if you're black, you get access to a different type of education. And so when policy makers are making decisions about kids and those types of schools, the kinds of schools that I write about that people that people, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, and th, and th, th, th, and, th, the, and the their, their, their, their, and their, and their, and their, and thro, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, throwne, the kinds of schools I write about that people call failing schools, terrible schools, there's a different set of standards. And when you look at those different set of standards, how do they affect the kids? Because when I was reading through the book, there were instances in stories that really

go back further in time than you would ever think the problem begins. You'd think, okay, let can't just look at the school, you have to look at everything that led up to the school. Why? Well, this is America where we know that our country is founded on a history of institutional racism and chattel slavery and Jim Crow and redlining and so on and so forth. And it may seem strange to bring those things up when you're talking about a set of school closures to make in the book is that in order for us to understand the way schools operate now, we have to understand that history. And it's not that long ago. And so I wrote a book that's about 2013, but it begins in 1916 by talking about the great migration

and how black people came to Chicago. And I think that's something that's not just about Chicago, that's about the country we're, the country, the country, the country, the country, the country, the country, thapapapapapapapapapapapape, the country, the country, live in and that in most places if you look at the history of how the city or the town got to be the way it is, there's racism in the mix. Spoiler just because America. Let me ask you this. A lot of people shut down in America as soon as you bring up racism or race, as soon as you say that, people are like, oh no, here we are again with racism. To those who argue that thoe. tho. tho. tho. tho. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. I is thi. I is the their, thi. I is their, their, their, thi. I's, their, thi. I's, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their. their, their. their. their. the ma. the ma. the mi. the mi. the mi. the m. the m. the m. It is, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi. thi. thi. thr. throoooooooooooooooooooo. th. thea. their. their their their their the the mi. the this is less about racism and more just about money, they say, well, Eve, it's not about black or white, it's about rich or poor. How do you respond to that? Well, that's simply not true.

And that's the first thing I would say. And that we actually know that segregation breaks down across racial lines, both in housing and in schools. So black people, affluent people, black people, and thoomomom. And, thoes, thoes, th. And, th. And, th. And, thiii. And, thi. And, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th, th, th, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thi. And, tho, tho, thoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. And, the. And, thoo. And, th. And, th. And, luent black people in this country are more likely to live in low-income black neighborhoods than they are to live alongside white affluent people. Low income white people are more likely to live alongside white affluent people. And because that's the way housing breaks down that has huge implications for the kind of schools that we have. We also know that we don't actually save money through school closures. And so the kind of budget argument doesn't really stand up. But I think that it is uncomfortable for many people to talk about race and racism and part of what I also wanted to do with the book is to

help people understand that racism is a structural thing. It's not just about what's in your heart or how you feel our interpersonal interactions. It's kind of the air we breathe. It's interesting because the there specifically a section in the book book book book book book book book book book book book book book book book book book book book book the book the book the book the book of of of of of of of of of of of of of of of the book, the book, the book, the book, the book, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th, the, the, their, th. I, their, their, their, their, their, their, the, th. I, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the, the, the book where you break that down and you talk about how so many people feel like the label of racism is attached to them and they get defensive, they say, I'm not racist, I love these kids, I love these kids, I love these kids, I love these kids, I want them all to succeed. And you argue in the book, you're like, yes, you may not be racist, but the system's system system system system system system system system system. thian system. thian system. thian system. thian system. thian system, thian system, thi. thi. that's, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, thi. that, that, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the, the the their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their. their. their. their. their. their. the their. the. the. the. the. thean. thean. the. the. the. the the. the. th. th. the th. their, the th Would you argue that that is where it all begins? Because Chicago is often held up as, you know, America's child with issues. Look at Chicago. Look at Chicago. Look at Chicago. Look at Chicago. Look at Chicago. Look at Chicago. This. Oh, the school's a byproduct of what Chicago is. That's one way to happen. Look at what Chicago is. the today. thin, I think that white supremacy and the history of racism in the cchchchch, the cch, the, the, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, the, look, the, thi, the, thi, thi, look, look, look, thi, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, the, look, the, thi, thi, the, the, the, the, the, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, is thi, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is the, is the, is the, is the, is the, is the, is they. thi. thri. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thooooooooooo. their, is their country, I often say it's kind of like the virus.

And these things are like the cold. They're like the sneeze. So these are the symptoms of a much larger issue. And so the book is about schools, but it's also not really about schools. It's really about the way racism and inequality shape the way we make policy. the best school?

Well, I don't spend a lot of time trying to convince that person. And you know, I think that there's a percentage of people. I think this goes with a lot of issues we have in our country. There's a percentage of people I invite them and welcome them to learn from the book. If you're a person that doesn't fundamentally believe that it's important to provide a high-quality education to all kids in the United States and and beyond, regardless of where they come from or who they are, I recommend another book to you and wish you the best for a holiday season. If you are an asshole, that thi, thii. the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to to to to toeei. toei. toei. toei. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thholes. Let me ask you this though. Where do you think... My publicist is like, oh gosh. I think that's a great selling point. It goes on TV and says, don't buy my book. It's just like, don't, if you're an asshole, do not buy the book. I think that's a great... Get up from the library. You know. The issues that America faces around its schooling are often, you know, I guess people often point to funding.

But where do you think people can begin? Where do you think politicians can begin? And where do you think communities can begin in rehabilitating schools and getting them to the place where there's not the failing schools? I think the first thing is to understand public schools as public goods and that these are all of our schools, regardless of you have a child enrolled there or not. This is something that all of us support and this is something that belongs to all of us and so we have to take ownership over that. And the second thing I think is we have a problem with hyper individualism in our country and so people like to fencide their to the today. And so people like the to focus focus focus focus focus to focus to focus to focus to focus the to focus thoomba thoombusts tho that's that's that's that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that th th th tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho the the the the the the tho thoo thoooo thooo thooooooo tho that that that that that that tho called race to the top, right? We're going to have schools compete against each other and then the best school is going

to come out on top. And we're going to incentivize them to succeed, right? And you can't incentivize away poverty. You can't incentivize away struggle. And these are the things that kids are coming to school with. And these are the things that public educators face every day. And so I think that if we start seeing those as collective problems and stop focusing on you know the special kids that make it out and things like that much, ensuring that every kid has access to a high quality education, that's something we have the means to do.

We just don't have a lot of interest or political will to read this book. Thank you. Thank you so much for being in the show. Thanks, I appreciate you. The Daily Show with Trevor Noah, Ears Edition. Subscribe to the Daily Show on YouTube for exclusive content and stream full episodes any time on Paramount Plus. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television.

Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. You're rolling? But that's all about to change. Like, none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 minutes, a second look. Starting September 17th, where. th. th. th. second look, starting September 17th, wherever you get your podcasts.

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