The Daily Show: Ears Edition - From the Archives: Jodi Kantor - January 4, 2018

Episode Date: October 25, 2018

New York Times reporter Jodi Kantor talks about breaking the story of Harvey Weinstein's sexual assault allegations and the unexpected impact it had on society. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. Streaming soon on Paramount Plus. This is Dr. Frazier Crane. I'm listening. He's back again. Hey dad, I got a question about punctuation. Ooh! No, stay on task. And he's more Frazier than ever. How do I look? Rich.

Just what I was going for. Oh my God, they traded your baby for wine. Do you really think we would trade John for white Zinfandel? Or any wine? Frazier, new season streaming September 19th on Paramount Plus. Please welcome Jody Cantor. Welcome to the show. Thank you for coming out in the snow and thank you for reporting a story which is probably one of the most impactful stories our society has ever ever seen. When you were working on the Harvey Weinstein story, this took you months. Did you think it would have the impact that it's had? No, my partner

Megan Tewy and I really were not sure and as one of our editors pointed out, Harvey Weinstein was really not that famous. A lot of people outside of New York and even in those cities had never even heard of him. So when you, when you're reporting the story you think to yourself, this this this this this this this this this this is this is this is this is this is this is, th. th. th. th. the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thi, the, the, thi, thi, th. the, the, the, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi, their, thi, thi, thi, thi.a, toge.a, too, too, too, too, too, too, their, th.a, thi. Wea, their So when you're reporting this story, you think to yourself, this is Harvey Weinstein. People maybe on the coasts know him, people in New York, people in Hollywood, but you don't think this will blow up as a story. Why do you think it got so big then? We've talked about that a lot at the newspaper because like everybody else, we're somewhat staggered to see what happened. One of our editors has a theory

that this was the rare sexual harassment story in which the accusers were actually more famous and had more cultural capital than the accused. I struggle with that a little bit as a reporter, because I really believe that every woman's story counts. Every woman who came forward was so courageous and so brave. And I don't love the fact that it seemed, th, to to to to to to to to to to to to the to the tak, tak, the the tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, the tak, tak, the the tak, the the ta, tho, the the the the the, tho, tho, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their, their, their, their, their, the, the, the, theat, teat, tea, tea, tea,ea,a,ea,ea, thea, thea, thea, their, the don't love the fact that it seemed to kind of take a kind of celebrity To move the needle, but interestingly that was part of our conversation with some of the stars who did Come forward people like Ashley Judd kind of knew that she had an ability to have a kind of outsized effect because people felt that they knew her

People knew her, but at the same time it feels like that would be a reason that people wouldn't th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi ta ta ta ta ta ta ta ta ta ta ta ta ta tha tha tha tha tha to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to tha to tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha the tha the the the the the the th. the the the the the the the ta ta the. ta. the. the ta. ta. ta. the ta. ta. ta. ta. to to to to t knew her, but at the same time it feels like that would be a reason that people wouldn't want to come out. In the reporting, you speak about how difficult it was for so many people to speak about their experiences. Was it hard to get, Ashley Judd in particular, let's say, to speak on the record? Absolutely. It's a really painful topic. One thing that helped is that the New York Times made a huge commitment to sexual harassment reporting this year.

When you take out a subscription to the New York Times, one of the things is that you're buying is essentially you're buying me and my colleagues' time to do this really difficult work. So my colleagues, Emily's a thee, spent eight months investigating Bill O'Reilly, and it was hard, slow, painful work. But that story had enormous impact. And then when we started the Harvey Weinstein story a few months later, we were able to essentially say to our sources,

look at the way the Bill O'Reilly story went down. He lost his job. People really listened to the women. If this is a kind the the the the the the the the the the the the the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, theme, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, to, to, to, to, to, toe, toe, to, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, the, the, the, the, the, the, they, they, they.. they. theyuu. theyu. themo, theyu. themo, theylii.ea, too, too, too, thea, the really listened to the women. You know, if this is a kind of surgery that you're performing when you're doing these stories, no women died on the operating table. The kind of classic fears that you're going to face humiliation or career consequences. If you're honest about what happened, did not come to pass. So that story gave us a kind of playbook and model to go forward with.

And it helped make us and our sources feel like it was possible. Like we could finally do this and people would listen. It's interesting though because many people said that Harvey Weinstein was an open secret. People said that about, I think it was Batali as well. You hear so many stories where people said it was an open secret. Sometimes it was even reported on in some way, shape, or form. What changed? I mean you reported a story that some people had whispered about and then all of a sudden the story became what has become the catalyst for change in many many parts of our society. What do you think was the change? Look, this is why we get up in the morning and this is why we work so the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. the the th. the the thi. the thi. the thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thin. thin. thin. thin. thin. thin. thin. thin. thin. thin. thin. to, to, to, toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. the. th. th. do you think was the change? Look, this is why we get up in the morning, and this is why we work so hard to do what we do.

We want to find the documents. We want to show the history. We want to capture the full extent. The first story we published had 30 years worth of allegations. It had secret memos from inside the problem was. It had women going on the record about their experiences. And from the beginning, Megan and I felt like we were writing not just about these alleged abuses, but also about the cover-up. Part of what was upsetting to people, I think about the Weinstein story, was the revelation that

there was an entire system in place to protect a guy like Weinstein. We we found out that he had eight to 12 settlements with women over the years. So something like this would happen, and then a fancy lawyer would step in and kind of conveniently make it all go away. The Hollywood agencies continued to send actresses to his hotel rooms, even though agents at those agencies basically knew what was going on. So I think, I don't think it's a surprise to people that sexual harassment and worse exists, but I think seeing the full pattern and the extent of the system is part of what's so galling.

When you look at a story like Harvey Weinstein's, you look at a story like Bill O'Reilly's and then you contrast it to stories about Roy Moore or senators that have come out since then, you know, Al Franken, the John Conyers. Why do you think the reaction is different? Because it feels like when it's about the politicians, people aren't as quick to accept it, or there seems to be a fight. And yet with Harvey and Bill O'Reilly, it seemed like people were quick to jump into the fray.

Is there a difference because of politics? Well, I I I I I I of what was important about the stories we've seen in the last couple of months is that many of them didn't feel particularly political, or if they did, they were on both the right and the left. If you look at O'Reilly and Weinstein, it really carries the lesson of this is everywhere, right? I mean, it's been revealed as a problem everywhere on the political spectrum. And then if you look at somebody like Louis C.K., who I also wrote about, he's not a particularly political figure. And so that discussion is not really a partisan fight. It's about this behavior. When you're doing the reporting on these stories,

and you're looking at the behavior of these men, is this something that you find is particularly tied to power or is it just a problem that we have with men in society full stop? If you listen to the full array of women's stories and all of the women who have come forward both in sort of journalistic outlets over the last couple of months and then women who have come forward on their own on the internet, I think what you see is the pervasiveness of the pattern and I think what is troubling but also constructive about the last couple of months is that we're able to draw connections that we never were before. We're able to

say there are generations of women whose careers were cut off because of harassment at particular stages. There are big questions about how effective HR departments actually are in dealing with this. There are huge questions about this settlement system. Why do we essentially let powerful men pay money, in Bill O'Reilly's case, it was tens of millions of dollars over the years, to essentially make the problem disappear and go away? And I feel like now that we're in 2018, a lot of the question, a lot of the questions, the questions, a the questions, a the questions, a the questions, a the questions, a th, a th, a th, a th, a th, a th, a th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thiiiiiiiiii, thii, thi, thii, thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, millions of dollars over the years to essentially make the problem disappear and go away. And I feel like now that we're in 2018, a lot of the questions are about what is the

path forward on this. It's not just about looking at these individual cases. It's about saying, can our society finally come up with an effective system for dealing with this? Did you find that many men didn't know what was happening? I I I I I I I I I I I I I the ena. And the ena. And their their. And their. their, their, their, their, thiaease, thiia, thia, thiolies, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, and thi, and I'm, thi, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I's, and I's, and I's, and I's, and I's, and I's, and I's, and I's, and I's, and I's, and I's, and I, and I, and I, and, and, and, and, and th... And, th. And, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the. We's, the. the. the. the. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. I's find that many men didn't know what was happening? I mean, there are the enablers. There are those who are actively doing the harassing and the assaulting. And then there are men who said, I did not know that this was happening right in front of me.

Was that something you discovered in your reporting? And I guess in the world of the New York Times. There were both women and men who didn't know. And I think that's because some of the information was confined to what we call whisper networks. It turns out that in all sorts of fields, women had these kind of quiet networks in which they shared information with each other about what their experiences were.

But my colleague Julie Creswell did a great story about that. But that information was always a little underground. It was almost always beneath the surface. So where to from here? This is the story that takes you months to work on. This has only been 12 weeks, which is mind-blowing when you think about. It feels like the Harvey Weinstein thing has been going on for a year, but it's only been 12 weeks. Is this the beginning, the middle or the end? the the the middle, the middle, the middle, the middle, the middle, the middle, the middle, the middle, the middle, the middle, the middle, the middle, the middle, the middle, the the the the the the the the the thi, the beginning, the beginning, the beginning, thi, to be. the beginning, is, is, is, is, is the beginning, is, is the, is, is the, is, is, is the, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is. I I I. to, is. to, is, is, is, is. I I I. I. I. Wee. Wee?, is, is beginning, is beginning, is beginning, is beginning, is beginning, is beginning, the beginning, the beginning, the beginning, the beginning, the beginning, the beginning, the beginning, the beginning, the beginning, the beginning, the beginning, the beginning, the beginning, the beginning, the beginning, the beginning, the beginning, the beginning, is the beginning, is the beginning, is the beginning, the beginning, the beginning, the middle, or the end? That's a great question. I think it's definitely not the end.

And the reason why is because we have all of these questions that we haven't resolved. How do you have an office romance in 2018? Without fear of doing the wrong thing. If a man has been accused of sexual harassment, what is due process even kind of mean in that kind of case? I don't think we've settled any of those questions. Our society doesn't even really have a common agreed-upon definition of sexual harassment. So I think all of us are kind of to some extent

just puzzling this through at the water cooler and at the dinner table. I can't wait to read what the next story is going to be tho. th, th, th, th, th, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho-in, tho, tho, what tho, what tho, what tho, what th. What tho, what tho, what tho, what tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, th. What is th. What is th. What is th. What is th. What is th. th. th. th. th. th. What th. th. What th. What th. What the, the, tho, tho, tho, the, the, the, the. the the. thean, thean, the thean, the thean, the the the thean. thean, the th, just puzzling this through at the water cooler and at the dinner table. I can't wait to read what the next story is going to be, though. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Joday's Show, Week Nights, Everybody. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. The Daily Show with Cover Noa, Ears Edition. Watch the Daily Show weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central, and the Comedy Central app.

Watch full episodes and videos at the Daily Show. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, and subscribe to the Daily Show on YouTube for exclusive content and more. This has been a Comedy Central Podcast. Streaming soon on Paramount Plus. This is Dr. Frazier Crane. I'm listening. He's back again. Hey dad, I got a question about punctuation. Oh, no, stay on task. And he's more Frazier than ever.

How do I look? Rich. Just what I was going for. Oh my God, they traded your baby for wine. Do you really think we would trade John for white Zinfandel? Or any wine? Frazier, new season streaming September 19th on Paramount Plus.