The Daily Show: Ears Edition - From the Archives: Ta-Nehisi Coates - December 13, 2016

Episode Date: April 6, 2018

Ta-Nehisi Coates, author of the Atlantic article "My President Was Black," weighs in on Barack Obama's time in the White House and his ability to transcend racial barriers. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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you get your podcast. Today's year's edition episode features an extended interview with Tanahasi Coates from December 13th 2016. Please welcome Tanahasi Coates. See I gave you the black handshake. Welcome. See, I gave you the black handshake. The black, dude. You know what so funny is? You wrote about that? I was reading the piece last night. I was like, oh man, I didn't even... It's just a moment in time where you go, Barack Obama straddles two lines, you know, where he is, yes, president, but you cannot deny that your president was black. Right, right, right.

And it's that small moment where you go like, do I, do I make it? Do I not? Right, right. So yeah. Well you. I remember the first time we spoke and you had exploded onto the scene, your book, a bestseller, everyone talking about you, and your life has changed since then. A little bit. A little bit. A lot of bit. It's odd, too, because I've been writing for 20 years, and for about 18 or those years, no one cared.

And then like a bunch of people were suddenly looking. So it's like the weirdest thing, you know what I mean? It's like if you do this, like if you just sing on corners, like if you're just singing on corners. And then one day there are a lot of people looking at the corner. You know what I mean? And you can't quite figure out like why they're the, like, you're, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, a, like, a, like, a, like, a, like, like, like, like, like, like, a, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, they're there. You feel like you've been doing the same thing the whole time. Well, I guess maybe it was a combination of you hitting your peak and maybe America reaching a place where your voice was something that was, that is, that is needed. What would you say is the best and worst part of having celebrity though? Oh man, I can't believe I'm going to say this. I have to give you to to to to to to the the the the the to the to the to to the to to the the to the to to the the the the the to the the the the to the the the the the th. I'm thi. I'm the the the the thi. I'm thi. I'm thi. I'm th. I th. I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi. thr. thr. thr. thr. thr. thr. I'm going. teaugh. tea. I'm tea. I'm tea. tea. tea. tea. Ia. tea. I'm. I'm. I'm tea. I'm te. I'm going to say this. I have to give you an honest answer. It's very challenging to be a college dropout trying to be a writer financially. My life is a lot less financially challenging.

I have to say that's the best part. I just got to be honest about that. Well, I hope so. We'll be wait if you're honest about that. Yeah, I mean, that's just true. Probably the worst part is the amount of people looking at you. I mean, that, I mean, I, you know, I was one of these people who probably a few years ago was like, I don't understand what's wrong with Kanye West. And I kind of understand a little bit now, you know what I mean? Like, I kind of got it.

I kind of got it. I'm you saying. Like, I think one of the pieces that resonated with me was where you talked about how people no longer see you as a human being. They see you as an object. Not at all, not at all. Like, you really are, um, I don't even know how to describe it. Like, they're liketalking to some image of you. And you know, you have this whole thing

where you can't figure out why people are being nice to you, whether they're being genuine or not. And even when they're being mean to you, you know, you're not really being mean to me, you know, it's like some other thing. It's the idea is exacerbated by the writing because people do look to your writing now. I know, and you know, I've heard you talk about it a bit, you know, even the last time we're here, how you, you sort of shun that, you go, hey, I write, and these are my opinions

and that's that, I'm not dictating, I'm not putting in a place. But this article is really powerful. black. What does that title mean? What it was a moment during the inauguration that you know a lot of folks watch the time and I watch with you know Young Jeasy and Jay-Z on stage and they do my president as black and it was such a joyous beautiful moment and I wanted to conjure that but the same time make it a little bit elejic like this thing had actually ended. Yeah. And so it kind of you know just all sort of fit together. And this is a piece where you spent it seems like you spent a lot of time with the president writing this piece.

We did. We actually did spend quite, I was sort of surprised that he spent that much time with me actually because you know the fact that I've been you you know specifically about to him. Yes. Specifically about how he dealt with African Americans in the past was a known thing. You know, obviously to him in the White House. Well, let's get into that because you do talk about that in the article. You've always been critical of the present with regards to how he addresses black audiences versus how he addresses a white audience about African Americans. Like, what was your biggest criticism of that? Well, it were two things.

I mean, I felt like the president in one respect, you know, wanted to be, as he said, the president of all people, but in other respects, wanted to, you know, get the sort of black past. So when it came to policy, when it came to talking about policy, it was always, I'm the president of all all, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm, the president, the president, the president, the president, the president, the president, the president, the president, the president, the president, the, the, the president.. the, the president, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the president, the, the, the president, the president, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the president............ the president, the president, the president. the president. the president. the president. the the the the to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. the the to. the the the the the the the the president of all people I can't do anything specific or special for black people with them when it came to you know talking about you know what we you know now understand on what we call you know respectability politics yeah he was saying things to black folks that probably i would have less of a problem with if he were not the president of the united states and thus the bearer of the heritage and the you know legacy of why black folks in a black lot of these conditions in the first place.

Here's a question I have, though. If you are in that position, how do you straddle the line, you know, between saying to, because you are the president? Right, right. You are. And you're talking to a black audience. Like, is it the difference between nobody hearing you say this to a black audience? Or is it the fact that you that you that you that you that you are that you are saying, because that you are saying, because that you are saying, because tha thiiii, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the the the the the the the thi, thi, thrall, thrall, thin, their, their, their, their, their, thin, thin, thin, thin, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. thi, th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thr. thr. thr. thr. thr. thr. thr. throooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. the, thi, thi, audience or is it the fact that you are saying it's a black audience? I think it's the fact that you're the president now. Like you just, it's just a different sort of position. You're no longer Baroque in the Hood. You know what I mean? Like you, it's true, you're black. Like, I mean, it's that's the true, you represent Andrew Jackson, you represent Widrow Wilson,

you have the heritage of a country that, you know, for most of its history in terms of its policy has not been particularly friendly towards black folks. And so my feeling was when you then, you know, address them in this sort of way, you know, why don't you pull up your pants, why don't you work harder, why don't you, you know, I just, I just, t, th and th and th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, th, thi, thi, thi, th, thi, thi, thi, tho, to, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, the the the the the the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the the they, they, they, th, thi, thi, thi, thr-a, to, to, you're, to, you're, you're, you know, to, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you know, to, you're, the the the the thr- pants, why don't you work harder, why don't you, you know, I just, um, man, boy, it just totally completely rubbed me the wrong way. You know, you were, you were in a unique situation where you could talk to the president. Yeah, yeah, I don't know how effective I was, but yeah, yeah, no, I was, I was, I was, and, um, it's a weirdest thing you know, it's a weird, th..... th. th. th. th. It's a weird, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're not going to beat the president. You're not. You're not. But you still got to fight, right? So you still have to go in and you got it, you know, they, because what he would do is he would summon you.

You know what I mean? He would summon these reporters. And he's very tricky, right? Because what he would do you do is, because, the can touch my face as well you're right next right right right and in the second time I was like right across from a right so it's like you know what you got to say now you know you go see you know you all brave when you got your laptop right. But you know you know Yeah, right. You're all great when you got your laptop.

Say it to my face, sit to my face. That's funny, that's that idea. But yeah. But you got to say it. And you know, so you always tell the first time, I felt like I went really, really soft and I came then I went and I kind of overdead it like it's like but it's still the precedent so I want your water right now I was like that so I could never quite get it calibrated you

know let's let's talk about that just just genuine because this is the gist of this article yeah it's you talking about to the to to the to to the to the to to to the tell a a tell a tell a tell a tell a tell a tell a tell a tell a tell a tell a tell a to to to to to to to to to the the the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tell. I I I tell. I tell. I tell. I tell. I tell. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I tell. I tell. I tell. I tell. I tell. I this article. It's you talking about Barack Obama trying to calibrate. It's you as Tanahasi Coats trying to calibrate. That seems to be the recurring theme that you hear being talked about, especially when it comes to black discourse in America. In South Africa, it's the same. I know. It's a different history, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, the, the, the, the, th, thi, thi, the, thi, thi, thi, the, the, thi, the, the, the, the, thi, the, the, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is a. the, is a. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the ta, the the ta, the ta, the ta, ta, ta, ta, the.a, thea, is. the conversation how do you calibrate how extreme should you be yeah how much conversation should you have what what was the one thing you noticed being with the president for so long in terms of his calibration well first of I so so this was like a

different piece than like everything else I've written like I felt like when it came time to write this piece, like I've taken my shots, people know how I feel. Like this is not, you know, like I could not rehash the same argument I was having. This was, you know, I guess an attempt to really, really understand him. The first thing I, you know, immediately felt that I understood was that he was able to to to to to to address a the thagh. thagu. th. th. thin, you thin, you thi thi, you thi, you thi, you thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the thi, the thi, thi, thi, the thi, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin.. I was, thin. I was, thin. I was, thin. I'm, toeeeeeeeeeeean, thin. thin. thi. I was, thea. I was, thi. I'm was that he was able to address white Americans in a way that I just think very few African-Americans could. And why is that? Because I think Barack Obama was born into a home not just to a white woman and white grandparents, but a white woman and white grandparents who shockingly told him it

was okay that he was black and that he should not be ashamed of it and that he should in fact be proud of it. And I think also, I think in addition to that, you know, he says this, part of the reason why that was possible is the sheer physical distance of being in Hawaii and not growing up against some of the grinding pressures of, you know, to grow up in. And I think it does kind of shape your approach. In a good way, in the sense if you want to have the ambition to be present in the United States, but perhaps in a bad way when it comes to actually having to deal with the force and the pressures of American races when you can't actually escape it. But now, this is a paradox. And this is where I struggle. th is th is thia I thu I thu I thu thu thu thu thu thu thi that that thi that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that's a that's a that's a that's a that, that, that, that's a that's a that's a that's the the the that's, the that's, the that's that's, that's that's that's that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a the the the the the the the the thi, thi, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, th, because one thing I love about you is that you

are the eternal pessimist. No, because I sometimes feel like I'm too optimistic. And when I read your stuff, I go like, yeah, maybe, you know what, Trevor, just come back to the middle. I think the world will become better and the moral arc, and I'm like, we can do it guys, we can, I really think like that, tha, tha, th......... And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. We, th. We, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, that, thi, thi, th. th. th. I'm, th. I'm, th. I'm, th. I'm, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, to, te. teateateateateateateateateateateateate. their teateate. their, their, their, the I really think like that. And your writing takes me the other way. You know, I find that balance in between. But I go, when you talk about that, essentially what you're saying is, Barack Obama, in your opinion, may not have ascended to the highest office in the land. Were he not someone who was able to see beyond what white people had done to black people in America? Yeah, I mean, I guess, I see beyond strikes me as a little, is a little bit much.

I think if he were more personally wounded, he was not traumatized by it. Do you understand like, like, when I grew up in West Baltimore, like anything associated, like and I'm talking about my childhood, associated with white people, 99% of time was something malevolent. Yes. Like it was an explanatory force for something bad. And in some cases it was a direct explanatory force, you know, why do you live in, why do you live in the neighborhood you live in, why are you worried in that neighborhood about your personal safety? Why is that the their, the police, the police, the police, the police, the police, the police, the police, the police, the police, the police, the police, the police, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, and their, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and I I I I I I I I'm, and, and I'm, and, and I'm, they...e.a, they.a, they.a, they.a, they.a, they.a, they.a, they.e.a.e.a.a.a.a.a. And, their, their, their, in, why are you worried, you know, in that neighborhood about your personal safety? Why is that neighborhood shaped the way?

Why do the police deal with you? And that's not his experience. Why are the schools the way they are? Who has the power? Who does not? That's not, you know, the sort of experience that his approach was very, very different, I think. But now, this, this, this is, th is, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, thi, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that's, that's, that's, they. the, the, they. that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, they. And, they. And, they. And, they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. that's not.a. that's not. that's not. that's not. that's not. that's not. that's not. the they. the the president as I go, you're basically saying that you need all of those ingredients to ever have a black president again.

Like there's one line where you wrote, I mean I'll paraphrase, but it was basically you're saying we watched the president and you were talking about the BET party, the last party that the president threw and it was a black audience that had come together to celebrate. And you know, the feeling the the the the the the the the the the the the the b. the the the b. the b. the the the b. the their their their their their their their their their their their their, their, their, th.ea.eat, their. theirc. theirc.e. their.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e..e......... I is is is is is the the. I was.e.e. It is. It was. It's is. It's is. It's is. It's is. It's is. It's. It's. It's. It's. There is is. There is is. There's is one. There's is one. There's is one is one is one is. There's is one is one is one is.to celebrate. And you know, the feeling was one of loss, but almost a future loss going, we will never see this again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You genuinely believe that? I don't know.

Like, it's harder to predict, because maybe there's another path that I'm not seeing. I didn't see this path that I'm not seeing. I didn't see this path at th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thin. thin. thin. thin. thin. thin. thin. tho. tho. tho. that. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I. Yeah. I. It. It. It. It. It. It. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. th. It's. th. the. the the thin. I. I's the th. I's the the the th. I's the the the the the the the the the the the the th. the the the the. the. You know what I'm saying? Like maybe there's some other path that I'm completely missing, because I certainly didn't see this path at all. That's how he did it, and I don't think many African Americans could have done it the same way. You know? It's strange. What I picked up in the article is, it they fear that anger and so they respond differently to the person who's in front of them. It's just like the

fact of the matter. I mean like if I have to go into downstate Illinois I don't know these people. Yeah. He literally relates to these people. You understand? It's my grandparent. I hear what you're saying? I know the chances of me actually you know the chances of me actually. the ch. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the fact. It's the the the fact. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's the fact. It's the fact. It's the fact. It's the fact. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the fact. the the fact. It's just just just just. It's just just just. It's just. It's just just. It's just. It's just. It's the walking into you know the kind of places that he walked into. Well I'm not gonna lie I know I have a similar thing like sometimes people say to me they go why aren't you angrier at white people why aren't you angry about everything and then I go I can't condemn all of them because I know love from some white people. We don't want you to condemn all all of them. No but I mean some people do to label. to thin some people. thso. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the their people their their people their th. their people th. th. th. th. th. they they they th. their people their people say they they they their they they their their they their their their their their their their their people. their people people people. their people. their people people. their people. their people people people. they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they're they're th. they're th. th. th. th. th. they're they're their they're their they're their they're their they're their their their their they're their. the board. But I go, but when I see a white man, I see my father. I go, like, there's a person who I know who loved me and a black woman and black people and my family. Do you get what I'm saying? So sometimes it is, it is, it is that relatability. Right. When you, when you're going through the story of Barack Obama, one thing I found interesting was how it's sort of related to what you talk about in your book....... It, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it's, it's thi, it's thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their, their, their, their, thi, thi, thi, thi, to to to to to to to to thiii, thiiiiii, their, thi, their,'s like even as a president, it feels like Barack Obama had to be twice as good.

Oh, he definitely did. I mean, it's just no question. I mean, it was all it is sort of reporting after, you know, the election, it said, well, Barack Obama won these voters, and there's no racist. No, no, no, no. If I have to jump to jump to jump to jump to jump to jump to jump to jump to jump to jump to jump to jump to jump to jump to jump to jump to jump to jump to jump to jump to jump, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, the the the the the the the the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th..... th. th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. th. th. to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to. to. to. to. too. too. too. too. too. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. no racist. No, no, no, no, no. No, no. If I have to, you know, jump six feet to get the same thing that you have to jump two feet for it, that's how a racism works. It's not global and complete you can't do it. It's really about raising, you know, it's saying it just means that you got to clear a higher standard, you know, and to be president, you know, to be a president, the president, to be president, the president, to be president, to be a president, to be a president, to be a president, the president, to be a president, the president, to be a president, the president, to be a, the president, to be a, the president, the president, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, to be, you know, you know, you to be, you to be, you, you to be, you to be, you to be, you the, you the, you the, you the, you the, you the, you the, you the, you the, you the, you the, you their, you their, you their, their, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, their their their their their their their their their their their their their their th., th. And, th. And, th.e. And, the th. And, the th. And, you know, the the the the the the the their th or Harvard, you know, law review, the product of some of our greatest educational institutions capable of talking to two different worlds, and

Donald Trump had to be rich and white. That was it. That's the difference. Well, that's not fair. Orange. But I hear what you're saying. I hear what you're saying. But, okay, let me challenge you on this though.

I agree with most of what you're saying. I genuinely do, and I grapple with this every single day. But then I go, if you look at Obama and you track his progress, a lot of the things that Barack Obama ran on are ideas and policies that Donald Trump has run on. And not, we're not talking about the major, the major, the major, the tha, thiiiii, thi about about about about about about about about about about about about the the thia, thi about about thia, thi about thia, thia, thia, thia, thiole, thiolomea, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, I'm thi, I'm thi, I's thi, I's that thi, I thoomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomome, I I I I thi, thi, thi, I thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thiiiiiiiiiolioliolouiioliii, thiiii, thiiiii, thiioliiiiii, talking about the major, disgusting ideas that Donald Trump has, you know, the deplorable ideas that he has reprehensible, you know, feelings. I'm talking more specifically around NAFTA, you know, trade policies. Policies that affect those swing states that we know to be the white working-class bastion. Right. Couldn't it be argued that Barack Obama and Donald Trump tapped into the same thing?

You know, that they both knew that if I go and talk to that factory worker and tell him I'm against those trade deals, that person will vote for me? Couldn't you argue that it's that and not racism? I don't think it's either or. I actually don't think it is interesting. I don't really have the data, but my understanding is Hillary Clinton didn't really campaign in Wisconsin. Yeah. You know, and I think that was a major, major mistake. He spent a lot of time, you know, I think he just, I mean you can say what you want about how high a barrier is. He just thought he could clear it. You know what I mean, if he went and to their their. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, I's, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I th. I th. I's, I th. I, I, I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. th. I'm th. thi. thi. I'm th. thi. thi. I'm thi. I'm thi. I'm thi. I'm th how high the barrier is. He just thought he could clear it. You know what I mean? If he went and talk to folks, you know? And that's a great achievement, but it's also a very, very, very difficult achievement.

And I know I keep going back to this. I think, because it has to be said, because it has to be said. I think the very thing that made that made that made that made that made that made that made that made that made that made that made that made that made that made that made that made that made that made that made that made that made that made the very that made that made that made the very that made that that the very that that that that possible the very the kind of reaction that he got, which I think... You mean from Congress, from, you know, like the obstruction? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, black folks, you know, who had come up, you know, differently, you know, not the way he came up in Hawaii might have been somewhat shocked by you lot, but not really, you know what I mean? I mean, like that's not really that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, like, that, that, like, like, like, that, like, like, like, that, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, the the the they. Yeah, they. Yeah, they. Yeah, that, that, that, that, that, that, they. Yeah, they. Black, they. Black, they. Black, they. Black, they. Yeah, they.to work with him at all. What that accords with what we know about his, nothing about that, you know what I mean? Like that's not really particularly surprising but he as a senator had had

these great relationships you know, in the Senate when he was in the legislature in Illinois, he had these sorts of great relationships. See now you're the president, you know what I mean? You're the highest executive in a, very, very, the, the, the, the, the, the, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. the, thi. the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thi, thi, their, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. that's is a that's not that's not that's a that's not, that's not, that's not a that's not a that's not a that's not that's not thi. thi. thi. thititular head of the country. You know what I mean? You are the highest executive in the country. It's a very, very, very different relationship. And the notion that a party that's been heavily racialized in a way that the Republican Party has been, would freak out at the sight of that, is not shocking to black folks at all. Let's talk about the racialized aspect before we move on. That has that has that has that has that has that has that has the biggest themes that have been talked about, people saying, you know, if Hillary talked to white voters, then maybe this wouldn't have happened.

This is the product of making it all about race. If y'all didn't keep bringing up race, we wouldn't have needed it to do this. Yeah, again, I just don't think it's either or, you know, I think it probably is true that she probably should have spent more time in some of those states talking to folks. I think that's that's true you know I'm never against that you know at the same time you know I don't think it that means that you have to not talk about race at all and given out a Democratic Party is this isn't 20 years ago I. So you don't even have a luxury anymore of getting around it. It's not a viable path to a democratic primary anymore. And somebody, you know, if you're gonna be a viable candidate,

you gotta figure out how to balance those two things in. You know, that's the one thing he did do. He did how that figured out. In terms of balancing and figuring out. Oh yeah, I mean, he could win in Iowa and then go win in South Carolina. I mean, he's the two very, very, very different states, you know. So that, that, you know, Hillary never quite figured that one out, you know. Let's switch gears and talk a little bit about the peace itself and telahassi quotes. Because I'm genuinely fascinated by this. I will read something like this. I process it in my mind.

I try and, you know, I argue with you in my mind where I don't agree in terms of the pessimism and so on. But for the most part, I'm with you. And then I'm always intrigued by people who say, oh, Tanahasi Coats, why didn't you write about Barack Obama's leniency on Wall Street? Why did you leave that out of the article? Why was that was glaringly obvious. Why didn't you write about that?

Because I can't. I can't. And I think those people who have special specialties on Wall Street, and I think those people who have specialties on foreign policy probably can't write a I can, you know, about race. This is not, it's not like I, you know, got an idea one day to say, hey, I'm going to write an article about, you know, the president's legacy on race. It's not like you can hand that to any reporter. And it's not because I'm particularly special. It's just that I've been thinking about this, tooe, their own, I'm going for the past eight years, the piece is organic. You can't just say, hey, you know what, I'm going to change my beat today and go take

this approach. We published a piece, you know, a few months back on Barack Obama's foreign policy. It's not my expectation that, you know, the author that that piece is going to do what that piece, you know, I mean, when I agree, you know, when I'm the they.... and, you the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tho, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you're the piece, you the piece, you the piece, you the piece, you the piece, you the piece, you the piece, you the piece, you the piece, you the piece, you know, you know, you know, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're the the the the the the the the the throwneaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseaseasease, you know, you know, somehow make those links. I mean, it'd be nice, it'd be awesome. I wish I could. You know, but it requires a depth of knowledge. It's not just, you know, posing questions to people who's knowing what questions to pose is knowing, you know, what back and forth with you about business as a voter as a private citizen I can do that but this is it's a very very hard thing it's a much much higher standard to actually write about it with some depth and some intelligence and that would be a horrible reason to be sitting in a bar I mean that's just a

depressing conversation you know drones and the drones and alcohol don't mix. My type of party, brother. I just want to say to you, I love your writing. I love what you talk about. You know, it's interesting and strange to me how much pressure is bestowed on you by people. They go, oh the Baldwin of this generation to this and I go, no, you're the Tallahassee Coates and we appreciate you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank to to to to the the the the to to to to the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to the the to. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It's. It. It's to. It's to. It's to. It's to to to to to to to to to ti. It's ti. It's interesting. It's interesting. It's interesting. It's interesting. It's interesting. It's interesting. It's interesting. It's interesting. It's interesting. It's interesting. It's to to to to to to to president, let me do the turn again. I always want to say it in different ways. Oh, let's do that chair one more time. I'll shake his hand one one one, sorry. You guys ready? I'll act like I said, thank you again.

But this one is just as genuine as the other one. You gotta do that again. Thank you. No problem. My president was Black is in the January, February issue of the Atlantic as well as online at the Atlantic.com. Ten out the coach everybody. The Daily Show with Trevor Noah, Ears Edition. Watch the Daily Show weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central and the Comedy Central and the Comedy Central app.

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