The Daily Show: Ears Edition - Guest Spotlight: Alex Garland & Hanif Abdurraqib

Episode Date: April 14, 2024

Michael Kosta sits down with award-winning director and writer, Alex Garland, to discuss his new film, "Civil War," his intentions for inspiring conversation amongst viewers, and journalism's importance to America's checks and balances system. Also, best-selling author, Hanif Abdurraqib, joins Michael to discuss his latest book "There's Always This Year," the parallels between his life and basketball, and his views on re-framing how we look at aging. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everybody, John Stewart here. I am here to tell you about my new podcast, The Weekly Show, coming out every Thursday. We're going to be talking about the election, earnings calls. What are they talking about on these earnings calls? We're going to be talking about ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches. I know you have a lot of options as far as podcasts go, but how many of them come out on Thursday. Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart, wherever you get your podcast. You're listening to Comedy Central. Yes, tonight is an award-winning writer and director whose new film is called Civil War. Please welcome Alex Garland.

How you doing, buddy. Thank you for coming. I loved your film. The whole thing is intense. Wow. Thank you for coming. I loved your film. The whole thing is intense.

Okay, good. There was a lot of assumptions about the film just based on the trailer. You wrote it, you directed it. What do you want to tell us about Civil War? You mean how do I want to sell it? I... People heard Civil War and they saw the trailer and they immediately went, you know, it was, it's this and it's this. And... All right.

What I wanted to do was make something compelling and exciting and engaging and all that stuff, but also lead to some kind of conversation, have a thought process. Not all films do that, not all films have to do that. That's fine, but that's what this one is aiming for. And it for th. And it the for the for the for the for thiiiiiiii. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. It's, thi. It's, thi. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, thi. It's, thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. to. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. th. th. th. th. It's th. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's not all films have to do that. That's fine, but that's what this one is aiming for. And it's, you know, it's set in a world where division and polarized politics have led to some really strange authoritarian state and the country's disintegrated. And you're, I believe, you're purposely vague about how we got here, who's fighting, who, was that on purpose? Am I right to assume that? Sort of, yes and no.

I think... I go for sort of. Yeah, it's sort of. It is very vague about some stuff. It is very vague about some stuff. And it is very, very specific about other stuff. And I think because it's vague about some things it creates an assumption that there's an overall vagueness but actually it's quite on point in some areas. You know that that itself is a vague

statement. Well yeah you answered it. You know one of the things that I felt so much in this film was was so many of these American places that I love born and raised in America is the golf course is the football stadium and that th th th th th th and th and th and th and th and th and th and th and th and th and th and th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the th. the th. th. thi. thi. th. the th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. the thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th............................................ the the th. the the th. th. th. th. It the th. It's the th. It's the the th. It's the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the that I love, born and raised in America, is the golf course, is the football stadium. And that scene we just saw, I mean, here's a sniper trying to take someone out on a golf course while Christmas music is playing in the background. I mean, it's like, holy shit, as an American, I said, I don't want this to happen. I don't want us this to happen. I don't want us to be this, I this to this to this to this to this to this to this to this, you to be, I, I this, I, I this to this to to be, I this to this to to be, I to be, I to be, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I don't want to be tho, I don't want tho, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm tho, I'm tho, I'm thua. I'm thua. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I tho, I this tho, I this this this this this tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, the, the, the, the, the, to, the, to, to, the, toa, they.s.s, toea, the, they. I'm, they. I'm, they. I'm, they. I'm, the,to happen. I don't, I don't want it to happen either. I have to say also, seeing as we're talking about it, seeing as I appear to be on a television show right now, I ought to say.

Yeah, you are. Yeah, exactly. It's not, it really isn't just America. It's set in America, but this situation exists in my country and in many European countries, the Middle East and Asia and South America and I chose America because everybody looks to America. But the things it's talking about are quite global. As a Brit, was it a little bit fun watching America crush itself? Okay.

No, honestly I hate it. Yeah, I don't, I, I hate it. Yeah. I don't... By the way, to be serious, nobody on the planet, apart from psychopaths, needs disintegration in this country. Yeah. Nobody on the planet wants division in this country. They want stability and decency.

And, uh, yeah, for sure. I think... I think. Sometimes when you're sitting on your couch at home on Twitter and we've got our political identities, and there's kind of this cute idea of, oh, we're going to a civil war. But when you watch your film, it's fucking terrifying, dude. And it's like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, we should be having these conversations. One scene comes to mine in particular, the Lincoln Memorial.

I mean, it's in the trailer, so I don't want to, it gets exploded. Yeah, don't blow it up. It's good thing. Yeah, exactly. And honestly, I went there as a seventh grader with my middle school, and I just was like, holy shit, how would I feel if this happened? Of all the places you could have blown up in this film, and a lot of places do blow up, but the Lincoln Memorial, I mean, tell me why that was important to you. Well, actually, because particularly towards the end of the film, I wanted the audience, having gone through, hopefully a compelling,

engaging story, to suddenly feel a really strong sense of aversion. Yes. Like a really deep, instinctive sense of sort of being appalled. And although it was written before January the 6th, there was something about January the 6th that it was a disgrace, right? It was various things, but one of the things was it was a disgrace and it provoked a feeling of whatever is happening. This just has a deep wrongness about it. And this is that writ large, I suppose.

And I guess it says a lot about you that you take great pleasure in giving us these things that should not be happening. There's no pleasure in it. No, no, it's just humility in my job that leads me to do these things. Yeah. It's a... We haven't spoken about the role of the press in this film, and it's in the clip as well. I mean, th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th this is th is th is this is thi thi thi this is, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi thi, thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, th. T, th. T, th. T, th. T, thi. T, thi. T, thi. T, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. This is theeeateat, thi. This is theat, theat, theat, thi. This is theateeeateeatee I mean that's the center character is is because on a personal level I'm completely over completely over this demonization and villainization of the press it's been happening a lot

yeah Yeah. It comes from politicians and it comes from within social media, which is this weird public discourse space that doesn't really relate to how people talk to each other at all. We all know that, right? Yeah. And in some places it happens within the press, but whatever it is, we need journalists, we need trusted journalists in pretty much exactly the same way we need doctors. So I'm done with this thing. And I thought, when I was setting out to make it, someone said, don't make it about journalists,

everybody hates journalists. And I thought this is just nuts. Right. I mean, is that a leap for me to say if we gut journalism we lead to civil war? You know what? I will be very serious. I know this is a comedy show, I'm not very good at it. Are you kidding me?

I mean, I haven't, I haven't told a joke in the first two acts of this thing. So here's the thing. There's a system of checks and balances, executive, judiciary, legislature, and then there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's the the there's the the the the the the the the the the the their, their, their, their, their, their, their, toeat, their, their, tooes. tooes. tooes. tooes. tooes. tooes. tooes. tooes. tooes. toe. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. toe. the. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. there's the fourth estate, there's journalists watching that. That's a system of checks and balances which is not arbitrary, it's for a reason. It's guarding against something. It's guarding against something real. If you erode it, if you erode government, if you erode the people watching the government, the thing you're guarding against me just turn up. And what is that thing?

Actually in Europe we know exactly what it looks like because fascism there came out of democracy. And a lot of fascists don't know they're fascists. They kind of know it's a bad word. They don't identify as fascists. It's not a thing they don't, I know some do, but most don't, right? And it's actually really a state of mind that people drift into, as opposed to, you know, following some kind of swastika flag. It's not really that. And it is actually a danger.

It's easy for, to watch this film and to go, America, watch out, America, this civil war could be yours, but really, I think you briefly stated, this isn't just the United States. We had a prime minister, a guy called Boris Johnson. Sure. It was an interesting thing, he was manifestly a liar. It was completely obvious he was a liar. And journalists would point this out, but they didn't have any traction.

It didn't do anything. It just sort of bounced off him. That was weird. So your country, my country, many other countries. I wish I had a joke up. No, you don't need a joke. You swore, right? This is f*** up. This is actually fucked up, and it is dangerous.

Dude, I watched your film, and then I got in a cab in Manhattan, and I was like, I want to get the f-I want to go to the country right now and just like, I mean, it is very powerful, it's an anti-war film, for th..... And, th. And, th. And, thi. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. Dude, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, thi. thi. th to. th th th th th th th th th th that. th th th th thi. thi. th. th. the lesson I should be taking? Should I be having more conversations with people that ideologically I'm different than? Here's my feeling, right? Most people are not extremists. Most people just are not. They don't really have a voice. Extremists have occupied noise. And I think the key thing to be...

Thank you. Thank you for coming to chat with this. Thank you for your film. It's tremendous. I hope everybody sees it. Civil War is in theaters in IMAX nationwide, April 12th. Alan Scarden. I'll take a quick break. I'll be right back after this. You don't mean a joke. We can have to have to. Hey, everybody, John Stewart here. I am here to tell you about my new podcast, The Weekly Show, coming out every Thursday. We're going to be talking about the election. Earnings calls. What are they talking about on these earnings calls? We're going to be talking about ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches. I know you have a lot of options as far

as podcasts go, but how many of them come out on Thursday? Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart wherever you get your podcast. My guest tonight is a cultural critic, poet, and best-selling author, whose new book is called There's Always This Year on Basketball and Ascension. Please welcome Hamnif Abdu Rakib. This book, There's Always This Year. This book, There's Always This Year. This is a beautiful book.

It's been said, ball is life. But you have written a book about basketball, poetry, meditation, music, LeBron. Was your intention to do ball is life right here? Everything? Yes, and I, in some ways I think I failed. But in other ways I think I succeeded. My hope was to write a book where anyone could see their own interest in it. It's like walking to a body of water, looking in and seeing what you most want reflected back to you.

So if you are in this book saying, I want to find a basketball book, you will. If you're in this book saying, I want to meditate on grief or place or home, you will. If you are someone who wants to see a complicated relationship with lineage and parent is reflected back to you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. thea, thiiiii. thi. to to to is reflected back to you, you will. So in that way, yeah. I, you know, you tell the story of seeing your dad shoot a basketball once. One time. And this book reminded me of how much I love basketball and also how much I watched with my dad. And I wonder, it's not often described this way. Is basketball a family sport? It feels like at least a family sport from the standpoint of witness. I grew up in a house of Knicks fans largely. And I remember my mother loving Charles Smith and, you know, the dislike for the bulls.

So you know, I was strange for me. I can't love Michael Jordan because, you know. So in some ways, basketball is in a family that loves basketball it gets passed down like so many other things you learn to love the game through the people you witness loving the game. Yeah, and I. I think is a beautiful thing. My dad loved the floater. Oh, the best shot. Yeah, the best shot and you describe it in here. You know and I just have. Do you mind if I read some your words to you. Really? Isn't that strange? In honor, but strange, yes. It's gotta be weird. The floater, the most romantic shot in the game when done right. It's almost obsessed with drama,

almost pausing in the air to make sure you get its good side before it begins to twirl downward. I thought of my dad when I read that. Really? You did that. You read that beautiful. Thank you. I'll tell you. I'm in like the second half of my book tour. You should take over for me. I'm not going to take over. But it's just one example of the things you describe so well. You said you're a Nix van.

So you're familiar with there's always next year. Right. Right. the significance of there's always this year? It presents a real urgency. So much of this book is also about the passage of time and making peace with the passage of time, which I think a lot of people, I turned 40 last year. I think a lot of people, as they age, think first about what is being taken from them instead of thinking about the many affection around the time you have and put it in the immediate moment for me to structure a book around that was a real generosity to myself.

Well, yeah, and the book, you know, it's, yeah. And, yeah, and the book, you know, it's not just saying that. And you know, he's not just saying that. It's actually divided into quarters and time out. And, I took you seriously. And there's clocks, there's a countdown, you know, and is that to give me the reader a sense of like time is limited, enjoy this page? Yeah, I mean, in some ways to put a literal stop clock, a literal countdown clock in a book is to say you, the reader, and me, the writer, because so much of the process of the book was to make us feel like we are in this together and understanding what time is, how much we have left, how much we don't have left. But some of the language I was attempting was to slow you down and say, for example, you

are all certainly going to die, but we are not dead yet. And so, since we are not dead yet, have you ever considered the sunset. And so, that urges people to slow, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, they th, th, th, th, th, they th, infinite sunsets on infinite days as long as you're alive. And so that urges people to slow down a bit. You know, I was in Cleveland this past weekend reading both the book and the audio, you know, so I'm walking around Cleveland and you're writing about Cleveland. Yes. A lot. A lot of Cleveland. And I had forgotten how good LeBron James is a basketball. Can you believe that? Can you believe that? I know.

I know. Well, I'm too busy watching the tennis channel. But you know, there's a lot of Lebron James, but why is he an important backdrop for you to tell a story of your life? And for two reasons. One, I got very interested in this idea, the idea, the idea, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th. th. the, the, the, the, the, to, to, to, to, to, to, to be, to, to be too, too, to be too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, to to too, to too, to to to to to to to to to to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. too, too, the the the the the the the too, the the too, the too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too believe will play forever, because it does seem right now as though he might play forever. But of course we also know immortality is a lie. You know, time is undefeated, as I say, time will get the best of us eventually. However, in a moment where it feels like I could focus in on the idea of immortality, the

idea of living forever. It was interesting to me. But also because for much of my life, LeBron James did seem like a faraway star in the background of my living. You know, I write about being homeless and walking through the streets of downtown Columbus and hearing a calves game on the background and bars that I could not get into. And so in a very real literal way, Le. And in any book that analyzed my living and my survival, it felt as though I should render it effectively, render what was in the background that helped me get to the forefront. Well, and that leads to my next question, which is home.

Yes. You know, I believe you moved back to Columbus six or seven years ago. You talked about everyone getting something from this. Here I am. I feel feel that I that childhoods, okay? Yes. And man, your description of going back home to Ohio reminds me of when I go home to Michigan of I did I have to leave Michigan to be successful in comedy? Do we have to leave? What is Ascension? All of this was hitting me in the face. What is home to you? And did you need to leave it? I don't think I need. I mean, one, it's good to talk to another Midwestern. Yeah, for sure. I will say, for me, I never felt the need to leave home.

I think this book is also trying to realign a consideration of what making it is. And in ascension, not necessarily, is something to the place you're going. And sometimes that place geographically is the same, but is emotionally different, it's mentally different, all of these things. And for me, if you have a place you love and a place where you can do your work and a place where your name will be cemented for years after you're gone,

for anything you have done. You've made it. Even if what, you know, my mother passed away, to passed, to passed, to passed, to passed, to passed, to passed, to passed, to, to, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the the the their, the the the the the, the, the, the, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the, the, the the, the, the, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th., tho, that, that, to, to., to, thea, thea, thea, to, to, to, to to to the the the the the When my mother passed away, there were grocery workers and postal workers who mourned her passing because of how kind and generous she was to the people in her orbit and therefore her kindness is a part of that legacy and so my mother made it. Right. I love though. Yeah. I need your help.

You wrote that nostalgia is a relentless hustler. Truly. Please educate me. Okay. I know you did it in here, but I needed help with it. You need help. Okay. So there's a useful way to say, if we sit back and talk about the good old days of our midwestern youth, that's a lot of fun. We can do that. But it actually doesn't do anything to inform the way we can live thoughtfully and generously now. Nostalgia for nostalgia's sake is great, but there's a difference between say a porch conversation and a page conversation. A page conversation has to use nostalgia as a way to move your actual present life forward, I think, which, you know, porch conversation is fine and fun, but also, you know, I'm not that interested. We're all getting older in the way that, for example, I play basketball, I play th play th play th play th play th play th play th play th play th play th play th play th play, you play, you play, you play, you play, you play, you play, you play, you play, you play, you play, you play, you know I'm not that interested. We're all getting older and in the way that for example I play basketball now is different. You know, yeah, you know I can't play the way I did when I was 20 or even 30.

Right. And it doesn't really serve me to sit back and say man in the good old days I can run up and down the court and do all this other series of things that align with what I know about the game and what I love about the game and what my body is still capable of. And when I do those things, I'm unstoppable for a little while. I love that. Honey, thank you. Explore more shows from the Daily Show podcast universe by searching the daily show, wherever you get your podcasts. Watch the Daily Show weeknights at 1110 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes

anytime on Fairmount Plus. This has been a Comedy Central podcast. Hey everybody, John Stewart here. I am here to tell you about my new podcast, The Weekly Show coming out every Thursday. We're going to be talking about the election, earnings calls. What are they talking about the election earnings calls. What are they talking about on these earnings calls? We're going to be talking about ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches. I know you have a lot of options as far as podcasts go, but how many of them come out on Thursday? Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart, wherever you get your podcast.