The Daily Show: Ears Edition - How the Subminimum Wage Affects Disabled and Tipped Workers | Beyond the Scenes

Episode Date: March 27, 2023

The current federal minimum wage for tipped workers is $2.13 and has not increased since 2009. Meanwhile, disabled employees can legally be paid less than their non-disabled counterparts, earning as little as 25 cents per hour. Host Roy Wood Jr. sits down with Daily Show researcher Stephanie O. and the President of One Fair Wage, Saru Jayaraman to discuss how the subminimum wage is legal, how tipping is a legacy of slavery, why restaurant workers aren’t running back to their jobs after the pandemic, and how the “other” NRA, the National Restaurant Association is the biggest obstacle to raising the minimum wage.  Beyond the Scenes is a podcast from The Daily Show. Listen to new episodes every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts, or watch at YouTube.com/TheDaily Show See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. What's up, Ears Edition, listener? It's Roywood Jr. correspondent for the Daily Show. You're about to hear an episode of one of our original Daily Show podcast, beyond the scenes. It's the show where we dive deeper into segments and topics that first air on a Daily Show, and then we bring on some shows writers and shows producers and experts. And this episode is about subminimum wage and how it affects disabled and tip workers.

I'm joined by Daily Show researcher Stephanie O and the president of One Fair Wage, Saru J. J.R.R.R.Man to discuss how the sub-minimum wage is legal and what is the biggest obstacle to raising the minimum wage. We hope you enjoy it. And if you like the show, check out the beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond the show, check out the Beyond the Scenes podcast wherever you get your podcast. Hey, welcome to Beyond the Scenes, the podcast that goes deeper into segments and topics that originally aired on the daily show. This is what this podcast is like. All right, this podcast is like a smoothie. You know, you know, we're the,

with the perfect blend of healthy fruit, a little bit of protein powder, lots of, lots of greens or that dumbass, chia seed or that flaxseed you bought at the beginning of the year, because you told yourself, new year, new me, I, I, I, I, new, new, I, new, new, new, new, new, new, new, new, new, I, new, I, I, new, new, new, I, I, new, I, new, I, I'm to me, I'm to me, and new, I'm th and new, I'm th. th. th. th. th, th, to, thi, th, th, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the the the the the the the the the the the to, to, to, the to, the th, the th, th, th... the, thean, too, tooooo, tooo, too, too, thea.a.a, thea, thea, thea, thea, the lax seed and everything. And you realize it's disgusting. That's what this podcast is. I'm Roywood Jr. Today, we're talking about the sub-minimum wage. That's right. That's what I said. Sub-minimum wage.

Even less than minimum wage. Roll the clip. The federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. But in 43 states, employers are allowed to pay tipped workers less, some as little as $2.13 an hour, a federal wage which has not increased in 25 years. The rationale is that customers' tips are supposed to make up the difference between $2.13 an hour and the minimum wage. And if the tipped employee doesn't receive the minimum wage through tips, employers are required to pay the difference. In the industry it's called topping up.

In seven states, including Minnesota, topping up is not an issue because those states require employers to pay tiped workers the full minimum wage. Tips are considered additional income. To help us talk th tho tho the the the the tap to to to to to the to the to to the to to the to to the to tip the tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tiped tiped tip tiped tiped employee tiped employee tiped employee tiped employee tiped employee tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tip tip. tip tip tip. tip. tip. tip. I tip. I tip. I tip. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I'm tip. I'm tip. I'm tip. I'm tip. I'm tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tiped workers the full minimum wage. Tips are considered additional income. To help us talk about this a little bit more. I'm joined by Daily Show Deep Dive Researcher, Stephanie O. Who was the original person who pitched this segment. Stephanie, thank you for being underpaid for so long that you finally got a spot on a show to speak out against this issue.

How you doing? I'm good. I'm okay. Also joining us for this conversation is the president of One Fair Wage and the director of the Food Labor Research Center at the UC Berkeley. Suru Jayaraman, welcome to the show. How you doing, Sauru. I'm so good. Thank you so much for having me. Now, let's start from the top tap tap tap tap tap to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the to to to to to to the to to to to to to to the the to to too. too. too. too, too, to too, too, too, too, too, too, to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. the. the the. the the the. the toooooooooooooo. too. too. too, too, too, to having me. Now let's start from the top. As the great Chris Rock once said in his first comedy album born suspect, deep cut shit on this podcast, Chris Rock said that minimum wage is your boss's way of saying, hey, if I could pay you less, I would.

But it's against the law. So when we talk about sub-minimum wage, first off, let's define what sub-minimum wage is, and then let's get into who's affected the most by it. Well, sadly, sub-minimum wage is the way Chris Rock that your boss legally pays you less than the minimum wage. And it is a direct legacy of slavery that has resulted in six million workers in the United States legally being paid less than the minimum wage because supposedly their tips bring them from that sub-minimum wage to the regular minimum wage. And actually, the employer is supposed to ensure for every hour that they work, that tips actually bring them to the full minimum wage and actually the employer is supposed to ensure for every hour that they work that tips actually bring them to the full minimum wage but

data shows that in 84% of cases at least that doesn't happen. And who's the most affected by this? You know I've waited I pretty much have done everything you could possibly do in food service from front of the house to back of the house and And even as a tip worker, at some spots, you were forced to share tips with people in the back of the house who were getting minimum wage. But are there any other groups that are affected by this, Saru. Yes, tipped workers in the U.S. are overwhelmingly women. They're over 70% women.

And they have been, been frankly since emancipation when this whole system was created. They're over two-thirds women, they are disproportionately women of color, we have the highest rates of single mothers of any industry in the United States. And they are overwhelmingly single moms and women who work at very casual restaurants, so IHOPs and Denny's, Olive Garden, Red Lobster. They don't, less than 5% actually work in fine dining. They are overwhelmingly working in very casual restaurants. They struggle with three times the poverty rate of other workers.

They use food stamps at double the rate of other workers. So they are overwhelmingly young, women of color color. Sometimes when I say young, I don't mean teenagers. I mean in their 30s. They have children. The median age is actually mid-35, and they are the lowest income women in America, actually. What about when we talk about, you know, like I had a boss, I'll tell you a brief story, I worked at a food spot in Birmingham, at 16, I was closing the store at 2 in the morning, which is against every child labor law ever written. That's a separate law that's being broken,

but talk a little bit about the youth workers and incarcerated workers, and how they could also be taken advantage of, as well as members of the disabled community. So first of all, let me just say, there are actually multiple sub-minimum wages in the U.S. There's the sub-minimum wage for tipped workers, which is the largest population of workers earning less than the minimum wage, six million workers. There's a sub-minimum wage for workers with disabilities, as you said, that's existed since the establishment of the Fair Labor Standards Act, based completely just on the idea that people with disabilities are less productive, not completely human, basically. There's a subminum wage in many states for youth, based on the idea that somehow young people deserve to be paid less when they work.

There's a subminum wage for incarcerated workers that is a direct, a second legacy of slavery that comes directly from, of course, the 13th Amendment and the ability to continue slavery in the case of incarceration. But returning to that first biggest chunk, which is 6 million tipped workers in America, as I said, direct legacy of slavery was created at emancipation in order to basically allow the restaurant industry to hire black people for free, black women in particular, not pay them anything and have them live entirely on a new thing that had just come from Europe at the time called tipping.

And that notion of tipping had originated in feudal Europe, and it was always, since feudal times, an extra bonus on top of a wage. We in the US uniquely mutated it into a replacement for wages, creating the sub-minimum wage, basically as a way to continue slavery at emancipation. And that idea was made law in 1938 when everybody got the right to the federal minimum wage for the first time but tiped workers who are overwhelmingly black women were left out and told you get zero as long as you get tips. So tipping comes from Europe and then Americans go well how about I just not give you anything and you just keep whatever penny somebody throw at your ass before the end of your shift. That's right.

When did we get to the actual minimum wage for the first time? Actually, I do have to share one more thing before we get to the actual minimum wage, which is at emancipation, there were actually two industries that sought to hire newly freed black people, not pay them anything and have them live on tips. One was the Pullman Train Company that hired newly freed black men and as porters on trains tried to pay them just in tips. But as many of you know, A. Philip Randall formed the first black union in the United States, the brotherhood of sleeping car porters and won the right to an actual wage, rather than living on tips. Black women were hired by the restaurant industry and were not so lucky.

There was no union for them, and so they were left, as you told, as you said, with just tips, no wage. And that idea that black women could be paid nothing but tips was made law in 1938 when everybody else got the right to a federal minimum wage for the first time, but tipped workers who are overwhelmingly women, women of color were left out and told you don't get anything, you just get tips. And we went from a zero dollar wage in 1938 all the way up to two dollars and 13 cents an hour. The current federal minimum wage for tipped workers in 2023. And I was saying, listen, back to your question of like who thiiiiiiiii, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, but, th, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, th, but, but, th, th, th, th, th, w, w, w, w, w, w, w, w, w, w, w, w, w, w, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, theee, thi, theeooooo.e, the, the, the, the, thi, thi, th and I was saying listen back to your question of like who these workers are sometimes when I share this data

people say that's terrible but in their mind they're thinking oh that's okay because it's just one tiny sliver of the population the restaurant industry is currently the number one fastest growing private sector employer in the United States of America. It is the largest employer of women. It is the largest employer of young people. 40% of restaurant workers are under the age of 24. It is the largest employer of in i. the largest employer, it's the largest employer, period.

One in two Americans has worked in the industry at some point in their lifetime, just like Stephanie and Roy, you both worked in the industry. I only worked in the industry. Right. Half of America has worked in this industry, and yet, despite its size and its growth and the fact that we've all worked in it, it has gotten away for 160 years with not paying its own workers and essentially saying for 160 years, we shouldn't have to pay our own workers. Other working people who eat in our restaurants should pay our workers' wages for us.

And as a result, you have this immense industry of mostly women, women of color, that are still paid $2 an hour today. Stephanie, I want to ask your question real quick about the research that went into unpacking all of this, but just real quick, Saruu, on that 1938 part of it, when you say that black women weren't as lucky in terms of being able to get a minimum wage, how were they single, did they just make it, did they wedge out specific occupations that were predominantly done by black women and go,

everybody gets a minimum wage? Or did they just go, no, you're a black, you're a woman, no money for you? Like, how did they do the racism? Explain to me the specific angle of the racism on this. Right, well, racism at the time was segregating black people into certain occupations and industries that were still servile, basically, you know, service occupations, domestic workers, restaurant workers, porters, and those were the occupations that were denied a minimum wage. Sharecropping and stuff like that, I guess. That's right. The National Restaurant Association was formed 20 years before 1938 and

1919 with the express intent and purpose of fighting to deny both agricultural and restaurant workers a wage and at fighting to deny both agricultural and restaurant workers a wage. And at the time, both of those occupations were overwhelmingly black. And so you can say, oh, it's about industries, but those industries were overwhelmingly black. And so really it was about denying black people a wage. Stephanie, how did this segment come together? And, you know, because, you you know in the building I've always

said that to get a pitch approved for production on the show it's really not that different from getting a bill passed in Congress without voting 15 times in a row for people but you have the idea you take it to someone else and then you two go get three more people they co-sponsor the idea and then you take it up there to the house speaker Which is Trevor at the time like How did this segment come to and what was it about it that drew you to it and you know make the daily show cover it? Yeah, so it came about because for a while? And it's so funny that you use that analogy because for a while? I've? I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. the the the th. the th. the th. th. th. th. to to to to to to to the the to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the to the the the the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the took. took. took. tode. took. took. took. today. took. today took. today today today today today today to to to to tod funny that you use that analogy because for a while I've been wanting to do something on just the experience of, some sort of piece on the experience of people with disabilities, and it is exactly as you say. And so I've always, you know, just kind of keeping my eyes open and ears open on different

things related to their plight. And I happened upon this article that was just kind of talking about subminimal wages, subminimum wages excuse me, and the dollar amount shocked me. Already minimum wage, as a former restaurant worker, I totally, that's already blasphemous, $2 an hour like, are you kidding me? But $0.25, 15 cents. Minimum wage isn't the same for everyone. Businesses can take advantage of a section of a federal act that allows them to pay

people with disabilities less. This program was established under the Roosevelt administration with arguably good intentions. War veterans who developed physical and mental disabilities from combat came home from abroad and struggled to find employment. There's no limit to how low an employer can pay so employers could legally pay pennies per hour. There are even places in America where workers earn as little as 22 cents an hour. It's all perfectly legal.

They're really working. They're not just sitting there. I don't know what people think they're doing. They're actually working. It's actual labor. And to pay somebody 15 cents an hour simply because they have a developmental delay to me is deplorable and disgusting. And I was like, we absolutely need to

do this and so I pitched it and everybody was shocked that that that that heard about it like what this is happening this and it's legal and and yeah that's how it came about just the I guess the shocking aspect of it nobody really believed that this is a real thing but it is is there anything out of all of that shock and all that stood out above everything else the shocking aspect of it. Nobody really believed that this was a real thing, but it is. Is there anything out of all of that shock and all that stood out above everything else? Or was it just the fact that it's all of this is legal? I think it was multiple things. They're shocking.

First of all, the dollar amount, incredibly shocking. Secondly, the fact that it's being done to people that are already so undervalued within our society, it just is like, it's just, it's like the cherry on top of a very poor Sunday, you know what I mean? Then on top of that, the fact that it's legal to do so. And then I think the sort of the fourth most shocking thing is the the actual labor that they're doing like anybody else if anyone on this podcast was doing that labor we would be paid a substantial wage and to give somebody 15 cents an

hour simply because they have a disability is crazy to me and it's not certain it's not just developmental disabilities it could be someone who is you know, crippled or is missing a limb or something. It's all considered disabled and they can all be paid at that wage, and so at that wage, excuse me, and so that was what was probably is the most shocking thing now, as I'm saying it. And so what message does that send, like, what does that say about the way society views these workers?

Like, if we're okay with paying these people that, what does that say about who we are? I just wrote a book about this actually called One Fair Wage, Ending Subminimum Pay in America, featuring workers, tipped workers who get a sub minimum wage, also workers with disabilities, youth, incarcerated workers, gig workers. And if you look at each of these categories of people who can legally be paid less than the subminimum wage, it is because of their identity, not because of the work that they're doing, or their skill, or their professional professionalism. Tipped workers are overwhelmingly women, disproportionately women of color, and we're originally black women entirely.

And come on, it's $2 after 81 years of a federal minimum wage law because they are women and disproportionately women of color. They are the lowest income women in America. Incarcerated workers, largely or disproportionately black and brown. Workers with disabilities, simply because they have a disability. Young people, simply because they're younger, gig workers who are immigrants and marginalized folks in our society. Each of these categories of people who get a sub-minimum, it is frankly, in my opinion,

and everything I've written about is it's a reflection on America's valuation of some people as subhuman, as less than, less worth than others. It's America reflection on America's valuation of some people as subhuman, as less than, less worth than others. It's America's valuation of black people and women from the beginning, right, with these two legacies of slavery. It's America's valuation of people with disabilities. It's America's valuation of young people, all legal, all reflected in law. It's a reflection of our values in law, and it's, and it is horrific

because what is the definition of the word minimum? The idea of the word minimum is that it's the least you can earn, that there shouldn't be anybody earning less than it. And so if somebody can earn less than it, it means that that somebody is not a somebody, that are somehow less than a somebody. They're subhuman. They are valued at less because of their identity. And look, in the case of tipped workers, the fact that they're overwhelmingly women

and single moms makes them incredibly vulnerable to just horrific sexual harassment and power dynamics between customers, managers, coworkers, and the workers. So we have the highest rates of sexual harassment of any industry in the United States of America because you've got a workforce of women that is basically told the customer is always right and our research shows they're actually told by managers dress more sexy, show more cleavage, wear tighter clothing in order to make more money in tips. That's how you're going to do well in this job is by putting yourself out there, you know, pleasing the customer because the customer is always right and that invariably leads to people being harassed

and even assaulted in really horrific ways. Now see right there, I want to take a break right there because I want to get into that a little bit more after the break because if the government says I don't have to respect you as your employer, then how does that lack of respect spill over into the actual employment experience for the employee. This is beyond the scenes. We'll be right back. Now we've talked about how it's legal to pay and underpay marginalized groups like they're worthless, which I would imagine so rude. As you already touched on a little bit with regards to sexual harassment within the workplace, that it leads the employee to feel like I don't have to respect you. And it also leads to to feel like, I don't have to respect you, and it also leads to the customer feeling like, I don't have to respect

you either. What direct impact does the sub-minimum wage have on workers and how does it perpetuate race gender and disability discrimination in the workforce? Well, I guess what are some other ways, at least? In the case of tipped workers who are overwhelmingly women, disproportionately women of color, single moms, they are incredibly vulnerable to any kind of customer harassment because they know that those customers' tips feed their children. You know when you get a sub minimum wage and I'm sure both of you experience this of two or three or four or five dollars, whatever it is in your state, it is so low. You literally, it literally goes to taxes.

You get a pay stub that says this is not a paycheck and it says zero. So you are literally completely dependent on the goodwill, graces, mercy, and biases of customers to feed your children. And those customers can basically do anything to you. However, they touch you or treat you or talk to you. The customer is always right. And even beyond that, our research shows that managers actually encourage women dress more sexy, show more cleavage, essentially

sell yourself and sell your body in order to make more money in tips. And we know this is directly connected to the subminimum wage because there are seven states that actually got rid of the sub-minimum wage many decades ago. California, Oregon, Washington, Nevada, Minnesota, Montana, and Alaska all require a full minimum wage with tips on top and have for decades. And unlike what you might hear from the National Restaurant Association, these seven states actually have restaurants, actually have actually larger and you know more booming restaurant industry than the 43 states with a sub-minimum wage

because guess what? When you pay people a wage they go spend it in restaurants and so the restaurant industry does better when you pay people better. But what we also know from these seven states is that sexual harassment is cut in half, one half the rate of sexual harassment. Why? Because the women in those seven states tell us, well, I get a full wage from my boss. I get tips.

Tipping is actually higher in California and Alaska than it is anywhere in the country. But they're not completely dependent on the customer tips to feed their families. They can count on that wage from their boss and so they don't put up with as much from the customers. They don't have to tolerate as much touching or comments or anything from customers because they can count on that wage from the boss. Now you said racial, sexual worker with disability. So I talked about gender that sexual harassment is, as I said the highest the highest thia as I said thia as I thia as I thia as I as I as I as I as I as I as I thia as I thia as I thia. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. I the. I the. I the. I'm not thi. I'm not the. I'm not thoe. thoe. thoe. th. they're not they're not they're not th. th. they're not. they're not. th. th. they're not. th. th. th. That th. That th. That. I'm not. I'm th. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not the. I'm not the. I'm not the. I'm not the. I'm not thea. I'm not theateatea. I'm not theatea. I'm not theatea. I'm not thea. I'm not thea. I'm not th is, as I said, the highest of any industry, but it's also true that this system creates severe racial inequities because there is now irrefutable, unsurrountable evidence that actually tipping is not correlated in the United States with the quality of service.

It is correlated with the race and gender of the server. Now there's been so much testing. Women of color and people of color always get less theeeee the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the gender of the server. Now, there's been so much testing. Women of color and people of color always get tiped less, even when they are performing what's called perfect service, even when they're right alongside a white server in a fine dining restaurant. Because of what's called implicit bias among customers. And we saw that get very ugly during the pandemic.

It was always there, not as explicit during the pandemic. It got incredibly explicit. We heard from women, I'm regularly asked, take off your mask so I can see how cute you are before I decide how much I want to tip you. We heard that so frequently from so many thousands of women. We ended up quaining a term for it. We call it it masculine harassment. And then on race, we heard from so many, yeah, we heard from so many people of color that it went way beyond the typical just getting tip less as a person of color. When they tried to tell a customer, you know, wear a mask, sit six feet apart, as they were forced to do. You know, show me your vac card. They got screamed, thless less thless their their their their their their. their. their. their. their. tip. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. their. their. their. We their. We th. We th. We the. We ha. We ha. thea. We ha. We ha. We ha. We're thea. We're thea. We ha. We ha. We ha. We ha. We ha. thea. We ha forced to do. You know, show me your Vax card. They got screamed at,

they got yelled at, they got tiddle-less. We had a member who was punched in the face for trying to enforce these rules. People were not trying to hear from people of color what to do in the restaurants. It really reached a point of such extreme that people started leaving in mass. I mean, we have done so many thousands of surveys. thi thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. their, thi. thi. thi. the, the, the, the, the, th. We th. We th. We th. We, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi. We've, thi. We've, thi. We've, thi. thi. thi. to to togeat togea. to toge. We've toda. We've toda. We've toda. We've today, today, today, we today, we the. We've mass. I mean, we have done so many thousands of surveys with workers. Why are you leaving? What, you know, what would make you come back? And it's this sub-minimum wage, over and over 80% of workers that we've surveyed and we've surveyed thousands, like 5,000, have said the top, the top reason that they're leaving the industry and what would make them come back back back back back back back back back wage. If they got a full wage with tips on top,

they would consider coming back. I think part of what happened during the pandemic as well was that a lot of us hit rock bottoms emotionally and a lot of people fiscally. So the idea of what do I have to lose? Well, COVID took the job from you for a while. So it gave people, a lot of people, I believe, the strength to go, no, you know what, screw that. Because people made adjustments.

People figure out a way to kind of shift. Do you also think, Sehue, to a degree, that the power dynamic, because so many of us as employees, just, if we're just going with the average restaurant customer, most of them are not supervisors at their job, most of them are not calling the shots at their job. So there's a foot on their neck all day. And this little meal at Applebee's is the only time you get to be in charge.

You get to say what you want to do. And you put on top of that, a that, a th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th that, a that, a that, a that, a that, a tho, a tho, a tho, a tho, a thi thi, a thum tho, a tho, a tho, a tho, a tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thum thum the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th th th thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, a thi, thi, thi, thi, the, the, the, the, the, the, theuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. thooooooooooo, the, th you get to be in charge, you get to call the shots, you get to say what you want to do, and you put on top of that a bunch of two, three years of fiscal uncertainty, the pressure, the pandemic, nobody went to therapy. So yeah, I'm going to fight you in this Waffle House right now because my toast was too brown. I know Waffle House don't want me to say the name is a Welfast. But it is what it is. They told you. Like when we talk about the disrespect towards the workers, how much does general mental stresses that we're under as a society,

in talking about the pandemic specifically, how much do you think that has helped to exacerbate how while the customers the customers the customers the customers the customers the customers the customers the customers the customers the customers the customers the customers the customers the customers the customers the customersate how wild the customers are now acting with these workers? I mean, I mean, yeah, everybody lost it. Everybody lost it during the pandemic. People forgot how to act, for sure. But I do want to say, Roy, it wasn't just the customers at Applebee's and at WaffleHat. We saw fine dining customers walk into restaurants, you know, take off your mask so I can see how cute you are. I tell you a story of a server in Arizona at a very fancy, fancy fine dining restaurant, Scottsdale, Arizona, wearing a mask because they were required to by their managers, and the

customer comes in with his wife and is staring at her breast the entire time and at some point says, you know, I'm so glad you're wearing a mask because it's giving me an opportunity to look at something else all evening, you know, or another bartender we have, a member of our isphoma who worked at a really fancy fine dining bar in Washington, D.C. And the customer, take off your mask so I can see how you look. And she says, no, I'm not allowed to to to to to the the their their their their. their. their. the their. their. their. their. the the their. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm th. I'm thi. I'm the the the th. I'm, I'm, I. I'm. I. I'm. I'm. I. I'm. I. I. I'm. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I'm. I'm. I. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the t. t. t. t. t. t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t te. t te. t t t t te. t customer, take off your mask so I can see how you look. And she says, no, I'm not allowed to. Her manager standing right behind her. And he says, well, I guess we know who's not gonna get tip tonight. I guess we know who's not gonna walk home with a lot of tips tonight.

The power dynamic was always there. The racial inequity is always there. My money will dictate your future. Exactly, it is a power dynamic that's always existed. It just got ugly. It got ugly with the pandemic and workers reached their limit. You know, first of all, we didn't even talk about this. Two-thirds of tiped workers told us they couldn't even get unemployment insurance because in most states they were told that sub-minum wage was too low to qualify for benefits. We heard from thousands of workers in that moment, wait a second,

if the government's telling me I earn too little, bing, I think I earned too little. I should never have accepted this wage to begin with. And then they went back to work, they were told, okay now you're going to do two jobs for the price of a sub-minimum wage, not even the minimum wage. Now you're gonna be a server and a public health marshal. People reached their limit. Tips went down, harassment went up, people were screamed at, yelled at. We have seen 1.2 million workers leave this industry. 60% of those who remain say they're leaving,

and 80% say the only thing that would make them come back is a livable age. Stephanie, during your time in the restaurant industry, I'm going to assume harassment was a part of that. Yes. At some point. Okay, how do you move around that on a day-to-day to keep the job, to keep the customer happy enough to get a tip, like when the, hey baby, girl, where you going at? You're a shift? Because you're trying to navigate the harassment while still maintaining a positive connection with this person to get the 20% too. Yes, I think just in general for women, particularly as a woman living in New York, how you move, how you navigate in a restaurant environment is how you navigate on the streets of the city where it's a similar thing. I think you just have to smile and be polite and that's always what managers just as Saru was saying, they always the to say, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it's to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the their their their their their their to try, it's their their to their their their their their their their their, it's their, it's their, it's their, it's their, it's their, it's their, it's their, it's their, it's their, it's their, it's their, it's their, it's their, it's their, their, their their their their their tip, try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try tip. 20, tip. 20, tip. 20, tip, tip smile and be polite and that's always what managers, just as

Saru was saying, they always try to, you know, tell us to act in that manner. But I can, when I think about the people I interacted with, luckily, honestly, I didn't experience an extreme amount of like harassment, but I did see a disproportionate way in which I was treated in terms of interacting with managers and like male co-workers were treated. It was drastically different. I remember having more tables, feeling like I was running around like a chicken with my neck cut off, and having co-workers just like hanging around and not getting support for my tables. I remember confronting a manager about it and about like, you know, why do I have so many

tables and why am I working so much harder than my other co-workers and it was kind of like dismissed. So I think basically everything she has said is absolutely true and it is not an environment that is meant to help women and certainly not a environment meant to help women of color succeed, frankly. I'm sorry that all of that happened to you after the break we need to get to the bottom of why is this shit still happening and who Do you keep it people from getting the money? I'm sorry for yelling.

I don't mean to raise my voice at you ladies. That's not I'm not raising my voice to chalming. I'm raising my voice. It's the fake fucking politicians. It's beyond the scenes. I'm perfectly calm. We're the scenes, we're rounding third and headed for home. We're talking sub minimum wage. Now, the government has decided workers ain't worth the damn, which means that the employers have decided that the workers ain't

worth the damn, either, which means the customers have decided that the workers ain't worth the damn. Stephanie Sauru. How do we stop this and why is it still going on? I would imagine in 2023 that there's probably been a couple of laws or referendums or suggestions in the White House email box saying, hey, can I get a couple dollars please? Why has this not changed, Surru, like, why is this still happening? So first, I do want to say it's been a long time and coming, and I want to tell you why it's not been happening. But there's something very hopeful we should start with.

We are experiencing this historic moment, our members are calling it, it's not even a great resignation, it's a great revolution, revolution where workers for the first time since emancipation are standing up, walking out, demanding I'm not gonna work unless I get a full minimum wage. And in response, we're seeing thousands of restaurants for the first time ever having to raise wages from two and three and four. We're tracking restaurants paying 15, 20, 25 restaurants, and we're seeing some the restaurants for the restaurants for the restaurants, the restaurants, the restaurants, the restaurants, for the restaurants, for the restaurants, for the restaurants, for the restaurants, for the restaurants, for the restaurants wages from two and three and four, we're tracking restaurants paying 15, 20, 25 restaurants and we're seeing some of the restaurants in Cape Cod paying 50 bucks

an hour plus tips because they cannot get staff any other way. So we're in a very hopeful moment, but it brings us to the question of why has it taken so long? What has what's blocked us all these years? And it answers very clear, very simple. After emancipation, restaurants, as I said, wanted the ability to hire newly freed slaves. And in 1919, they actually formed an association to keep it so, forever, called the National Restaurant Association.

We call it the other NRA. It's been around for a hundred years arguing we shouldn't have to pay our workers because you do basically. They won this in 1938. They won it in every every time the minimum wage goes up. They make sure it stays low and they make sure tipped workers are always left behind. You all remember Herman Kane. Well, Godfather Pizza. Yeah. Exactly. tipped workers are always left behind. You all remember Herman Kane. Well, Herman Kane. You got father pizza. Yeah. Exactly. Herman Kane was the head of the National Restaurant Association

back in 1996 when Clinton was president and he struck a deal with Congress saying, sure, you can go ahead and let the overall minimum wage go up as long as tiped workers are frozen forever. And so in 1996, we saw the wage for tiped workers stay. It went up the last time in 1991, it's been, you know, ridiculous, 32 years since this wage has gone up. We have mothers and daughters who've worked for $2.13 an hour through their whole careers. And it's because basically Congress, Democrats, and Republicans have struck deals with the National Restaurant Association, basically agreeing that every time the minimum wage goes up, these workers, these women, get thrown under the bus. And here's the thing. So New York Times has just reported that information

that we shared with them that actually all these years, they've spent so much money, the Restaurant Association, funding contributions to elected officials, candidates that then vote with them, that then say, okay, fine, we'll leave the tipped workers out. Turns out all of that money, instead of coming from the member corporations that drive the other NRA, like Applebee's, and IHOP, and Olive, and All of Garden and Chili's, turns out that all of that money actually comes from low-wage workers who are funding their lobbying without knowing it. So, in 2009, I, that, that, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, their their, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tomomomom. tom, tom, tom, t, t, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to to ti, ti, ti, ti. And, te, te, te, te, te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te, te, tir lobbying without knowing it. So in 2009, it was the last time the federal minimum wage went up and tipped workers were left at $2.13 an hour. And the restaurant association decided after 2009 that that was it.

They never wanted to let the minimum wage go up again, and they certainly didn't want tip workers to ever go up. So they basically went to the states, the four states with the largest restaurant industries, California, Illinois, Florida, Texas, and they got bills passed in each of those states requiring workers to take food handler training and pay for it. Now it just so happens that the Restaurant Association owns the monopoly company that provides food handler training called Serve Safe. And so millions of workers each year

are forced to take this training and guess where that money goes. It goes to the restaurant association and they turn around and use it to lobby against those same low-wage workers interest. So low-wage workers are funding the lobbying of the other NRA to the tune of $80 million a year......00.00.00.00.00.00.00.00, oh.00,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, and to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to toe,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the theaughe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe funding the lobbying of the other NRA to the tune of $80 million a year. And that lobbying is then used to get both Democrats and Republicans to agree that fine, every time the wage goes up, we leave the tipped workers out because those poor restaurants, everybody else can be forced to pay the minimum wage,

but those poor restaurants have to be left out. They don't have to pay the minimum wage even though everybody else. th the th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th $ $ $ $ thi thi thi thi thi thi thi to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to te $ $ $ $ $80 million million million dollars tiped $80 million dollars tiped $80 million. tiped $80 million. tiped $80 million. tiped $80 million. tiped $80 million. tooooooome tooooome to pay the minimum wage, but those poor restaurants have to be left out. They don't have to pay the minimum wage even though everybody else does. So it's a nefarious history that finally, finally we are reaching a moment of victory because workers in the millions are finally saying enough is enough. Regardless of what you do, you know, I won't even say the words elected officials and restaurant association. We're not putting up with it anymore. th th th th the the th the th the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their to to to to to to to to to to I want to even say the words elected officials and restaurant association, we're not putting up with it anymore. So try to stop your restaurants without it.

How do you Stephanie take everything that she just said and boil that down into like 30 seconds and a joke. Like, talk a little bit like, I mean, it's silly, but I'm serious. Like, talk a little bit about when something starts making you upset th it any it any it any it any it any it any it any it any it th it any it any it th it th it mean silly but I'm serious like talk a little bit about when something starts making you upset when you start pilling back the layers of it. Talk a little bit about the creative difficulties in deciding what to keep within a piece versus what to leave on a cutting room floor because there's so much that you could pack into a story but we only have so much time on the actual,

like on the mothership show, I'm saying. Yeah, I think what I try to focus on, you know, we were talking earlier about the most shocking things. So the things that affected me immediately from the story, those are the things that absolutely need to go into the story. And then, in thinking about thinking about thin, in thinking about thi in thinking about thi, in thinking about that, in thinking about that, in thinking about that, I that, I that, that, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, thi, the, the, the, the, thi, thin, thin, thin, thin, the, thin, the, thi. thi. thi. the. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, thi. then in thinking about that, I try to think about, okay, so what is the logic behind the the villain or the perpetrator of this wrong? What is their mindset? And then trying to think about like the nuggets within the story that emphasize that because that's where the humor is. Like, we're clearly society is always punching down, is already punching down at these workers. So they're not the subject of the the the hu hu hu hu hu hu hu hu hu, the humor of the humor of the humor of the humor of the humor of the humor of the humor of the humor of the humor of the humor, the humor, the humor, the humor, the humor, the humor, the humor, the humor, that's that's the humor, the humor, the humor, the humor, that's that's that's that's that's the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the villain, the the the villain, the the villain, the the villain, the the the the villain, the the the the the thi is already punching down at these workers. So they're not the subject of the humor, obviously.

It's going to be the people that are doing things like what Sauru just described to me. You heard me, I was like, mm-mm, like the entire time because it's just so ridiculous. So that's where the humor is. So not only am I not going to pay you, but I'm gonna use the very the very the very the very the very, the very, the very, the very, the very, the very, the very, the very, the very, the very, use your, the very little money I already give you to fund me to continue to not pay you. Like that is, it's like, I don't wanna just do you wrong, I wanna do you just dirty. Like, just, you know, it's just, and that's the humor. I don't know about you too, but I'm inspired to own a restaurant all of a sudden. This sounds like a good ass hustle to me.

Yeah, really. The thing that's always funny to me also when across, particularly in the United States, whenever there's an issue of, oh, there's not money, you know, the big wig's always him and in high, there's no money, there's not enough money. We can't do it because we can't afford it. There's always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always always's always money. They always find the money. Okay? So, like, yeah, to your point,

all these restaurants that fought us for so long on this issue, so many of them are now paying this because they can't get staff to come back any other way. So you're right, they found the money. Look, there have always been amazing small business, we have an association of 2,500 small business restaurants that are actually leading the way on this issue, that actually agree with us. We need to pay everybody a full wage because it's better for the bottom line. Guess what workers do when they're paid more? They actually provide us with better service.

They actually provide us with better service. They don't leave. They don't quit. You know, they stay longer. They provide better food and better service, and they go spend it in our economy. They go spend it in restaurants. So there are plenty of great restaurant owners that have always done this. And now, with this great revolution,

thousands more restaurants are following their lead. Because look, even Applebee, Applebee's, with twice this and leads this, you know, National Restaurant Association. Guess what they're doing? They, like everybody else, have to pay more so they're starting to pay 15 in Utah and Nebraska and West Virginia. We saw them paying $20 an hour in Quakerstown, Pennsylvania, and yet they're still paying $2.13.

And Bermingham and $3 in Detroit. So you tell me what's different between the states I mentioned and Birmingham and Detroit. Because, and it's very clear in New York, Applebee's is offering 15 to workers in Manhattan and $10 to workers in Harlem and the Bronx and the Queens. So they are having to raise wages, but they will stick to their racism to the very last, you know, moment. Pick and choose. Help me to understand though the difference when we're talking about the bigger corporations that have money and shareholders and investors and they can move around money, the restaurant

industry, if we're just talking at the mom and pop level, it's very volatile. It's still an industry where most of the restaurants fail within the first year. I think 18 months was the last statistic that I heard. So what do you say, Saru, to the counter that without the sub-minimum wage, that people with disabilities wouldn't have as many employment opportunities because of the ADA Act? Or if I just run my little barbecue hut and you're gonna make me pay my service $10 an hour? I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I the the their I their I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm their their the ADA Act or if I just run my little barbecue hut and you gonna make me pay my service $10 an hour what now I got to raise my menu prices and the customers when they find out oh they gonna stop to I don't know why I'm talking like that Stephanie. It's a Mississippi barbecue but this idea as a restaurant owner okay I

want to pay them more, but if I do, I have to change my whole business model, I might have to fire two servers. Like, is there any validity to that counter argument to raising sub-minimum wage? Look, the validity comes from the restaurant association telling these small mom and pop businesses for years, this is the only way to do it. If you pay more, you're going you, you're going you, you're going they they they they they they they they they're going they're going they're going they're going they're going they're going to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. th. thi. the thi. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to Association telling these small mom and pop businesses for years, this is the only way to do it. If you pay more, you're going to go out of business. They terrify them. So I, we feel for their fear, but the fear is not based on reality, because the truth is we have helped thousands of small business restaurants make this transition profitably. There are ways to do it. We have actually a calculator that helps restaurants put in their menu prices and staff size.

We show them how to make the adjustments profitably. So many restaurants, thousands have just done it. Roy, there are restaurants right. I can give you a list of over 50 restaurants in Mississippi that are currently paying a full minimum wage with tips on top because so many the their their their their th......... th. th. th. th, th, th, th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi, thus, thoes, thi, thi, thus, thus, thoes, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. I, thi. I, thi. I, thi. I, thi. I, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus., thus., thus. thus. thus. thus. thus. thus, top because so many restaurants have had to move in this direction in order to recruit staff. So what we say back to small business employers is, we know you've been told that it's impossible or really hard that you're going to have to lay people up, but it's just not true. And what is your option right now? No staff? You're not going to have enough staff to fully operate. make the change. Here's how you get how so many other restaurants have done it profitably. Okay, but if I run the mom and pop barbecue spot and this doesn't necessarily compare to

some minimum wage, but it's part of the larger conversation about the restaurant industry when we talk about the fight for 15 and all of the fast food workers going, I want $15 and the restaurant industry going cool cool... to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the to the to th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the th, the the thi, thi, their, their, their their, their, their, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th.... th. th. th. th. th. th. the, the, the. the an thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, so thean, so theee an the an the I want $15. And in the restaurant industry going cool, here's your $15. Half of you are fired, and now we're going to put in self-service kiosk touch screens. And everybody just ordered from a touch screen. Do you think what's happening in the adjustments that have happened in the fast food industry with the fight for 15 is used to help fuel the fear to control the independent restaurants that are still dealing with the subminimum wage with not wanting to increase our subminimum wage? That's definitely the argument and the fear for sure, but it is not it's not actually born out to be the truth actually Roy the states that have raised

wages and ended subminimum wages have actually higher job growth rates. So fast food workers have not been replaced by kiosks overwhelmingly. There might be one or two places where you might see that, but if you look at data, the states with the highest wages have the largest restaurant industries and the greatest job growth rates in the restaurant industry. Why, again, it's because in those states, those fast food workers are doing, guess what? They're going out and they're spending it, and so the industry grows. More restaurants can survive if more workers are able to take their families to eat.

We forget. This is the largest industry in America. I mean, it's the largest population of consumers who will eat out in restaurants. And by the way, tip better, because you both know, after their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their the way tip better because you both know after having lived on the tip minimum wage, you're going to tip better. So they spend it, they eat out, they tip better, they're better customers, frankly. And so we need to value them as customers. I do want to say, because I know we're running out of time. We are just experienced the most wonderful historic moment of victory on this issue. Finally, talk about the growth. Let's get some good news in here.

Yeah, yeah, because all of these fears you're lifting up, you know, have gone out the window as workers have basically said enough is enough. So as a result, we won, we won in Michigan and DC. Michigan just went from $3 for tipped workers to $12 an hour, and D.C. just went from $5 to $16.75. And we've got bills and ballot measures moving in over a dozen states this year and next year, all because workers have reached their limit and they're saying enough is enough. You have to stop listening to the Restaurant Association. In fact, you have to stop listening to the Restaurant Association because they're using our money to make their argument. That part. That part.

Okay, last question then. What can we do other than tip better? What can the average person do to support workers? Thank you so much. Yeah, for asking that question. The number one thing is to, right now, go to our website. There's a tool on our website, one fair wage.org, that allows you to click to send your legislator a message saying, stop taking money from the restaurant associations, taken fraudulently from low wage workers, and support passing one fair wage, a full minimum wage with tips on top. That's number one. But also if you go to high road restaurants.org, you'll see a list of restaurants that are currently

offering a full minimum wage with tips on top, thousands of them in every state. We want you to definitely support those restaurants. More importantly, wherever you eat, show that list on your phone to the owner manager at the end of your meal, say, hey, I don't see you on this list. I love eating here. I love the food. I love the service. But I want to see you on this list of restaurants paying a full minimum wage with tips on top.

Otherwise, I don't want to keep supporting a restaurant that's taking my tips and using it to pay the workers' wages. I want my tips to be on top the to to be on the to be on their their to be on their their to be on their their their their their their their, their, their, their, their, their, tho, their, their, their, their, their rest, their, their, their, their, their, their their rest their their their their their their their the rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest rest, not, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather, rather than than, rather than, rather than, rather than, rather than, rather than, rather than, rather than, rather than, rather than, rather than, rather than, rather than, rather than, rather than, rather than, rather than, rather than eat out, not to the server, they don't have power, not to any of the workers, but to the manager owner at the end of your meal and say, I need to see you pay a full wage because, you know, I think when I tip, it should go to the workers on top of a wage, not instead of a wage. Well, I wish that we had more time because if we did, I would have asked you a question about all of these other random places where I know you're getting a full wage and then you just put out a homemade tip jar up for. And it was a non-service-based industry.

I understand service-based, like Coldstone Creamery Cool, but come on, man, this is an oil change spot. Mine a printer. Like Coldstone Creamery Cool, but come on man. This is an oil change spot Mine a key I'm here to buy a printer. Why is there a tip jar next to the cash register at the place to buy the printers I'm not going to make all these companies want what the restaurant industry has the more they trip Apple pay the tip everywhere the more and more companies are gonna to say, well, they get tips, I can pay a subminimum. We've got to get rid of this subminimum so it doesn't keep growing into every freaking industry where we get tip everywhere. Well, thank you all so so much. That's all the time we have for today. Thank you to our guest Stephanie and Sauru for going beyond the scenes. Thank you, than the tip, to thi. Thank you, to, thi, thi, to, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the thi, the the thi, the the the the thi, thi, thi, the the the the the the the th, the the their, their, their, the the thi, the thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, t Show beyond the scenes on Apple Podcasts, the I-Heart Radio app, or

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