The Daily Show: Ears Edition - ICYMI - Bakari Sellers on "My Vanishing Country" and the Dehumanizing Oppression of Nonwhite People

Episode Date: May 16, 2020

"My Vanishing Country" author Bakari Sellers discusses the systemic, deadly levels of oppression facing people of color in the U.S. and reacts to the killing of Ahmaud Arbery. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Bacari Sellers, welcome to the Daily Social Distancing Show. Well, thank you for having me. It's an awesome opportunity. I like how your beard has come in. It's a very majestic, professorial, you've got like a, like the full Corona beard going on. This is Denzel-ish, that's what I like to call it. Let's jump straight into talking about your book, which unfortunately feels more timely than ever. You've written a story that is a memoir of your life, but in many ways it feels like it's also the story of America as well. My vanishing country, tell me what the title of the book means and if you really feel that way about America.

Well, sure, I mean, my life has been booked in by tragedy. I say that with a heavy heart, from the Orangeburg massacre and my father being shot in 1968 to the Charleston massacre. And throughout the book we talk about different traumas and different heartaches and different systems of oppression that people of color have to live through, that I have lived through. And so now with coronavirus and it ripping the band-aid off the health care disparities we have. I'm able to parallel that with growing up in a community where we don't have clean water, where we don't have in a hospital, where we live in a food desert. And then you layer that with the sad case of Ahmed Aubrey. And you just talk about the perpetual trauma that people of color, particularly black men have to live through.

And so my vanishing country, it means a few things, when you give the word country some meaning being a boy from the dirt road to the south, but even more importantly, those truths that we hold to be something that all Americans can realize seem to be fleeting, especially for poor people, immigrants, and people of color in this country. Yeah. You would think that people would just go, yes, this is America's history and these are some of the effects, the systemic problems that still affect black people today. And yet, it seems like people disagree on it more than ever. If somebody is saying to you, in good faith, really, hey, Bacari, I don't understand why black people

seem to think things are bad in America when they've gotten so much better. How do you respond to that person, if indeed genuinely, they don't see it and they're trying to see it? Well, this is a, first of all, this is probably the most difficult conversation that this country has to have. It's a conversation of race. And take, for example, the Amon-Arborate case. This is not a Trump-era phenomenon. This is not something that just started to happen with the racism that emanates from the White House. Instead I think about Megarever's, I think about Emmett Till, I think about Jimmy Lee Jackson, I think about the four little girls in the Birmingham Church. And so when you think about the totality of these circumstances, you realize that we've made a lot of progress, but we still haven't, we still haven't reached that quote unquote mountaintop. We have not made it there.

One of the funny things that people like to bring up is, oh my God, we had Barack Obama elected president, you guys have made it. And that's not the case. When you talk about these layers, I'm not concerned about somebody calling me nigger. I'm not. I'm more concerned about the systemic levels of oppression that people of color live in today, a broken health care system, a broken

environmental justice system, a broken criminal justice system, a broken educational justice system because in this country you're punished because of the zip code you're born into. And all of these pressures, just they just rest on you and they build your anxiety and now we have corona and now we have these never-ending traumas. It seems like you're just trying to breathe sometimes. What do you think it says about America that so many people used the video of Ahmed Abery, in that empty house, the house that was being constructed as a justification for his death? Or he's killing rather, I should say.

thi, thi.. He was th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. Th. Th. Th. Th. That's, thr-a, thi. I's, thr-a, thr-a, thr-a, thr-a, the, thi.... Somea, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. Soh. Soh. It's, thi. It's, thi. It's, thi. It's just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just. It'sa. It'sa. It'sa. It'sa. It'sa. It'sa. It'sa. It's justa. I's justa. I'sa. It'sa. I'ma. It'sa. It's justa. It's justa. ta. It's just time. Hell, me and my wife do it. He walked into an empty home. He was looking around an empty home. That's not a crime that requires the death penalty, but even more importantly, those two men who were on that good old-fashioned, South Georgia, father-son lynching, they looked at him as less than human. And that's the hard part for me in raising twins and raising a 14-year-old daughter and I have 16-month-old twins teaching them that they can be a doctor that they can be a lawyer that they can be the host of the

daily show but also telling them one day that you know they have to be the way they interact because there's a segment of this public that doesn't th. th. th. th is is is is is a th. the th is a th is a th is a th is a segment of th. I I thi. I is a segment of thi. I is a segment thi. I is a segment thi. I is a segment thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi thi the. the. T the their the their the the their the their their thi their their thi thi thi is a thi thi is a thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. T thi. T thi. T the is a the is a segment is a segment is a segment is a segment is a segment the is a segment the is a segment of a segment of the is a segment of the. theateateateateateateateate. I is a theateate. theateate. the. the. thi is a the. there's a segment of this public that doesn't believe that they're human and doesn't want to give them a dignity. And that's something that I was intrigued to read and understand from your point of view because I wondered, how do you talk to your kids and say to them, you can be anything you want to be. You do have these opportunities, but at the same time, there are certain things that are going to be to be tho, afraid of. Like, which path do you take as a parent? Do you, you know, do you say to your kids, hey, if you see the police, just try and be as calm as possible, try not to engage, try to, like,

which talk do you have with them? Because some people go like, you know your rights. You fight for your the right. to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, their, their, their, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the, the, the, the, the, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the, t have you taken as a parent? I mean, I come from, and one of the themes that I talk about in the book is I'm a child of the civil rights movement. My father was a member of SNCC. He was shot February 8th, 1968 by law enforcement, protesting in the Orangeburg massacre. And so my father always taught us growing up, I think having to do with his interactions with law enforcement that you should always, you never never to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thiii. thi. tie, tieuuiiiiiiiiiiiiwliiwliwliwli. their their their their their their their their, that you should always, you know, you never stop in a dark area. You always drive to the next exit. You always go to a well-lit area. We'll fight those battles in court.

For me, with these twins now, my job is to hopefully make sure they have a better America than the one that I inherited. It's the same dream I have. The trouble that I have have have have have have have have have have have have have have have have have have have have have have the the thoee thoe the thoe thoe the thoeauoeauoeauioeauoe and the thoeauoea. thoea. thoea. thoe and the the thoeoe. thoe. the the the the the the the the theire. theire. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a. Ia.a.a.a.a.a.a.a. Ia.a.a.a. Ia.a. Ita.a.a.a.a. The trouble that I have and the reason that I wrote my vanishing country, I talk about it in one of the latter chapters is, you know, five years ago, almost five years ago, I was standing in front of a church, Mother Emanuel. Clemente Pinckney was a friend of mine. He actually let Dylan Ruth killed nine people because of the color of their skin. I was standing in front of that church about a week later with my father and tears were

rolling down my faces. I was explaining to the country that we were having many of the same shared experiences. He was 30. Excuse me, I was 30 and he was 70. And so for my twins, what I have to do, what we have to do, what everybody watching has to do is continue to work work work work work work work work to work to work to do what we have to do what everybody watching has to do is continue to work to make sure that they inherit a better country than the one that I did and right now that's tough those conversations are tough because as their eyes sparkle you do know that racism is real, systems of injustice are real not getting the benefit of their humanity is real and I just don't want them to to be on the the their their their their.. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I'm. I'm. to to be to to to be to to to be to be to be to be their. to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be the. the. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their their their. their. their their. tie. tie. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tethem to be on the front of a t-shirt or us to have to wear another hoodie to march for them or us to have to, you know, get Arizona ice tea and skittles or us to have to jog two miles for them. You know, I'm living for all of those people whose lives were cut short so one day my

children can be free. How do you feel about the discussion in and around sharing these videos these videos these videos these videos these videos these videos these videos these videos these videos these videos these videos these videos. these videos. their their their their their their their their their their. the discussion in and around sharing these videos online, because there's clearly a rift. Some people think these videos should never be shared because all they do is further the, you know, the, the almost joy of lynching that white supremacists may engage in and seeing the videos. It furthers that narrative. Others would say, no, without the videos, then oftentimes there is no justice. And it feels like an argument where nobody's wrong but but an argument that people are having nonetheless do you have any thoughts yeah no I think we have to show those videos I mean there are a couple of

things first let's just deal with the Arborate case because if we did not see that video see they saw the video it's it's a 703 days for the arrest not because of the video but because we saw the arrest, not because of the video, it's but because we saw the video, the American public saw the video. And so I think that that's necessary. I remember the Walter Scott case, the young man in Charleston, South Carolina, who was shot in the back. But for that young man who was at the barbershop filming that incident, there would have been no arrest. And so we have to make sure we do that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that's, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, I is, I is, I is, I is, I is, I is, I is that, I is that's, I is that's, I is that's, I is that's, I is that's is that's is that's is that's is that's is that's is that's is that's, I I I is that's, I's that's the the the the they.e, I's thi, that, they.e.e.ean, I'm throwne.e.e.a, I'm tha, I'm throwne.e.a, I'm thi.a, I'm thi. I'm that's that sure we do that. But again, that parallel with the civil rights movement, there's one glaring image that

people remember. It's the picture of Emmett Till, who allegedly whistled at a white woman. And I challenge for those individuals who haven't seen that picture to go Google it. His face is beaten and he literally has no bones left in his body. In that picture, that image, before images could go viral. It stimulated a whole generation. And so I think those images are necessary, not necessarily for justice, but just so that we can have transparency and to be completely honest,

to make white folk uncomfortable, because we have to be uncomfortable to have this discussion. And unless white people literally see these injustices, sometimes there is a connection that they don't really happen and they do. Bacari, thank you so much for your time. Congratulations on an amazing book and hopefully we'll have you back on the show again soon. Thank you so much, Maude, have a good one. Thank you. The Daily Show with Trevor Noah, Ears Edition. Watch the Daily Show weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central and the Comedy Central app.

Watch full episodes and videos at the Daily Show.com. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram and subscribe to the Daily Show on YouTube for exclusive content and more. This has been a Comedy Central podcast. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible.

I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes, a second look on Apple podcasts starting September 17.