The Daily Show: Ears Edition - ICYMI - Bill Gates on COVID-19 Challenges, Climate Change and Podcasting with Rashida Jones

Episode Date: November 23, 2020

Bill Gates discusses America's handling of the pandemic, steps needed to fight climate change and his podcast "Bill Gates and Rashida Jones Ask Big Questions." Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. You're rolling. But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 utes, a second look, starting September 17th, wherever you get your podcasts. Bill Gates, welcome back to the Daily Social Distancing Show. Good to see you. You last joined us on the show, I would say it was about seven months ago,

and seven months ago, just like Dr. Fauci, you said, you were worried because you felt like the worst was yet to come. A lot of people accused you of peddling fear and terror, and now it appears that unfortunately you were correct. Here's my question to you. Why does it seem like we've become worse at handling the pandemic, you know, in Europe or in the US than we were seven months ago, when seven months ago it was so bad? Well, there's a couple things working against us. First is that with the winter, when we're

colder, the virus multiplies more and we're indoors more, so that is not a good thing. And then there's a certain fatigue, some of the things people have had to do in terms of staying away from friends, that's tougher. I have to say this round it looks like Europe is getting better compliance with the restrictions than the US is, and so they're starting to see a downturn. When you talk about the downturn, thathe, thrown. th, the th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thrown. I thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thoomomomomomu. I have thoomomomuu. I have thrown. I have thoom. I have thoomoomuoomuoomuoomuoom. I have thoom. I have tho, tho, thu. I have have have thu. I have have have have have thu. I have have thu. I have thu. I have thu. I thu. I thu. I thr. I thru. I thracea, thrown. I's throwneeu. I's throwneuuu. I've thauuuuuuuuuauauauauauauauauauauauauauauauauauauauaua thau. thau. tha thaurn, is part of the downturn, like should we be looking at the virus cases or should we be looking at the deaths? Because I never know which one is more important. You know, the news will be like a million more people, two million, five million, seven million, and then you'll see some doctors saying, yes, but fewer people are dying from it because we know how that we have against it. Well, the cases are the leading indicator.

It is true that cases are translating into less deaths for two reasons. One is that the cases are more in the young people who are less likely to be very sick. And the other is that the quality of treatment, including some new drugs like Dex and Methasone, have been proven out. So when you do get hospitalized, you have a higher chance of survival. But, you know, we're predicted to go back up to over 2,000 deaths a day in the months ahead. So for the next six to eight months, the news is mostly bad. After that, the volume of the vaccine will have kicked in and then we'll have, you know, there's light at the end of the tunnel. Wow. I mean, the question is, then I think

for a lot of people is, like, how long is that tunnel, how bad does that tunnel get and how do we stop it from being the worst possible tunnel? One of the big things a lot of people are worried about is going to be the transition between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. You know, you've worked with governments all over the world, working on their vaccine distribution, working on health care around the planet. You know how important it is for one administration to talk to the next when it comes to handing off on their plans. How much do you think this will actually affect America's response???. How much do you think this will actually affect America's response if there isn't a transition? Well it's unfortunate that the current administration got tied into a positive narrative that

you know we're turning the corner and that you now have this transition. It'll make things, the message is a little less clear. You know, this is when you'd love to see the best CDC people on TV, reminding us about social distancing and masks, you know, particularly when there is that fatigue out there. So leaders at all level, this is a chance to step up, even on politicians, you know, encouraging friends that, hey, we, you know, we don't want this additional several hundred thousand deaths. You know, it'd be tragic to be the last person who dies, you know,

when the vaccine is absolutely on the way. And, you know, so I think the good news should drive compliance, not laxity. As somebody who's done work globally around health care for so long, especially around infectious diseases, what have you found is the key to encouraging or convincing community members to buy into the measures that keep them safe? Well, we had vaccine resistance with polio and they're getting the religious leaders to speak out, to have them visibly vaccinating their own children. You know, for a while it looked like we'd never stop polio in Africa and yet now it's

just been certified that we've gone three years without wild polio. So activating the trust hierarchy and getting rid of the conspiracy political element to it and just reminding people, you know, in this case it's about saving lives and that case it's about kids not being paralyzed. When you get people back to that very human impact if we don't behave well, I think, you know, then it'll often come through. It's interesting that you bring up conspiracies because of the conspiracy theory the the the the the the conspiracy the the the conspiracy the conspiracy the the the conspiracy they the conspiracy they they they they they they is is they is.. they they is they is they is they is they is they is they is they is they they. the conspiracy they. the conspiracy the conspiracy they. the conspiracy the conspiracy the conspiracy they. the conspiracy the conspiracy the conspiracy the conspiracy the conspiracy they. the conspiracy they. the conspiracy the conspiracy the conspiracy the conspiracy they. the conspiracy the conspiracy the conspiracy the conspiracy the conspiracy they. the conspiracy the conspiracy the conspiracy the conspiracy theory is. the conspiracy theory is. the conspiracy theory is. theory is. It's theory is. It's theory is. It's theory. It's theory. It's theory. It's theory. theory. theory. theory. theory. theory. theory. theory is they. the conspiracy theory. the conspiracy know, then it'll often come through. It's interesting that you bring up conspiracies because conspiracy theories about you online have are insane on social media and social media has propagated them in a way where it's like

Bill Gates is trying to create vaccines so that he can control your minds and he wants to vaccinate everybody so that he can implant. I think you're going to change people's DNA is what they said. You're going to change our DNA so that, I don't know, we turn into something and then we work for you somewhere. I don't know the full story. I'm still learning it. When you see these things, first of all of them, like the biggest thinkers I know. Have you even thought about like the motivation behind it? Because I'm always trying to figure out who benefits from a conspiracy theory.

And I'd love to know if you've put any thought to this at all because of how many people won't get a vaccine because they truly believe conspiracy theories. Dr. Fauci and I do, you're, you know, you're kind of obscure. You know, nobody talks that much about TB or malaria. So here we have this, you know, complete turnaround where vaccines and, you know, are they good for people are now front and center. And there's always been a small group of anti-vaccination people, and we see this with, you know, measles vaccine. They've now got a platform, and they've sort sort that that that that that th th tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho, measles vaccine, they've now got a platform and they've sort of joined forces with some political inspiracy views, and it's so easy to click on, particularly when a simple explanation for this pandemic, that, oh, there is somebody

evil behind it, you know, is somehow easier than, you know, the true biology, which is actually kind of complicated. So, you know, we have to make the truth the the the the truth truth the truth the truth the truth truth the to make the truth the to the to to the to the to the to the to to the to the know, the true biology, which is actually kind of complicated. So, you know, we have to make the truth more interesting, and, you know, we've got to label things with the truth. And sadly, the naivete about how to make social media work well is pretty strong, and that's coincided with the election and the epidemic. I wish I had the answer, but, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the true, it's the truth the truth the truth the truth the truth the truth the truth the truth the truth the truth the truth the truth the truth the truth the truth the truth the truth the truth the truth the truth the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their, it's out out true.o, it's, it's, it's, and true.e, and thea, and thea, and too, it's out out out their truea, it's out their their the election and the epidemic. I wish I had the answer but you know it's it's it's out there in big big numbers but and hasn't it just keeps growing. So when we look at the vaccine now I mean that's now the story you know now the world is waiting for the vaccine because the vaccine becomes the key

that unlocks the door as you say the light at the end of the tunnel. The question then is, how do people get the vaccine? How effective will the distribution method be? And how difficult is that? Well, the vaccine's going to be in short supply. The good news is that there's four other vaccines that the thatever to get approved fairly quickly as well. The fact that Pfizer works so well makes us optimistic that AstraZeneca, Johnson and Johnson Novivacs, which those are much cheaper, easier to scale and don't require that cold chain. So we'll have a lot of vaccines and we need

to prioritize people at risk, elder people, people who work in nursing homes, and each country will have to decide, okay, who goes first. That's still a little bit confused in the US, but hopefully we'll get that straightened out very, very soon, because the vaccine is likely to be shipped a lot in the month of December. As you said, the anti-vaccine community has only grown over time. I think the US is now the biggest hub of anti-vaxes in the world. th, th, th-in, th-in, th-in, the, the, the the, the the the, the, the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. We will will will will will will will will will will will will will will will will will will the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thee, thi, the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. As you said, the anti-vaccine community has only grown over time. I think the US is now the biggest hub of anti-vaxes in the world. It started as a fringe thing with measles. Now with Corona, it is fully fledged. And because of politics, it's been amplified.

So now you'll have some people who are on the liberal side saying, I don't trust that vaccine it was made under Trump and then you'll have other people saying like I don't trust that vaccine that came from Joe Biden and the and the Democrats they're trying to brainwash a it's a lot of people may not want to take the vaccine which may now go against everything we've worked towards so how do you begin convincing people that the vaccine is safe, like in the midst of this political crisis? Well, it's clear that the FDA went through the professional staff there.

All the things they're supposed to do, likewise Pfizer, there's even an external committee that will weigh in just to make absolutely sure that the political desire to get this quickly did not, in fact, the efficacy and safety review. And I feel the the the th th th th the th the, the the, the the, the, the the, the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the the the the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the, the the, the, the the, the, the, the, thin, thin, thean, thean, theanananan, theananan, theananananan, theananananananan, theananananan, the,this quickly did not infect the efficacy and safety review. And I feel very confident because the people involved are really doing their job well. We don't need everyone to take the vaccine. Society will have to decide if there's some jobs like going to a nursing home,

you know, and taking care of somebody's grandparents, that whether that person, you know, how strongly you encourage them to have a vaccine so they're not spreading the disease. But with this level of efficacy, if we can get to 75 percent, then you'll block the spread of the disease. With measles, you'd have to get to like 95% because it's even more infectious. But the good news here is that we just need that majority. And I think as people see people taking the vaccine,

and they see that the side effects of any are very, very rare, that confidence will build, and that will be good for society. Because when you take the vaccine, you're helping to get to get to get to and that will be good for society because when you take the vaccine you're helping to protect other people. Let's talk about climate change because that's another one of Bill Gates's passions, another thing Bill Gates has been doing for a long time. You have very strange hobbies. I play video games. You do malaria and climate change. But let's talk a little bit about that. How much have we have gone backwards in this period in terms of fighting climate change? And what do you think are some of the concrete steps that we can take that move us closer to a place where we're not just destroying our home or our place in the planet, but also acknowledging that there are people who have jobs that are tied to the current way we make energy?

Well, the good news is that the awareness of this is a problem in the U.S. is going up. Our president-elect cares a great deal about this issue. He may not get the full amount of money that he talked about being ideal, but if we prioritize that money on innovation, new ways of making cement and steel, then I view it as a very solvable problem. So it's a lot like the pandemic where innovation is what will get us out of this. We have to incent the private sector, particularly very invented people, to give us these solutions. And we, the government owes it to us to get the best scientists, the best experts, the best experts, the best to the these solutions. And the government owes it to us

to get the best scientists, the best experts, and invest early on so that we're not getting into the problem. Because once climate change comes, you can't get out of it. There's not like a vaccine for that. So I'm really pleased that it hasn't left the agenda of all young voters of both parties. And so, you know, I'm hoping during the next four years to make sure the prioritization of the high impact spending is there. You're right, we have to try and create new industries

in any place where the switch away from hydrocarbons is going to hurt the economy. Do you think maybe part of the problem with getting everybody on board climate change is they hear doom and gloom, they hear the planet will be dead in 10 years, 15 years, you know whatever it is, and then the planet's still around and they go like, oh, clearly this is not real? Well, when I look back back back, why didn't my warnings about the pandemic lead to more activity, you know, I have to say, you know, should I have made the grimness even more vivid or, you know, told more people that bad news?

So if you want people to prepare in advance, you really do have to, at least in some way, show the potential negative outcomes. And now we can couple that with, hey, with innovation, you can create the high pain jobs. And the US is rich enough that we can make the transition, even for the areas that are negatively affected, not super severe, if we're enlightened about that. Having the common base of facts, like is climate change a problem?

Is it hard to solve? You know, was there really a chance of a pandemic coming? There, you want to build a consensus. And once you get things underway, I agree emphasizing, like the heroes in the front line on the pandemic, the great scientist who created this way of making vaccines. It's gonna help us with lots of other diseases, even cancer. Those positive stories will help push us through and maintain what in the case of

climate change will be a many decades of hard work to change the industrial economy so that there are no emissions and help countries poor than us that you know can't afford a premium price. I know I'm going to run out of time with you soon so I wanted to chat to you about another venture that Bill Gates is jumping into. And this one is interesting, because welcome to the bandwagon, Bill, you have launched a podcast. I was like, wow. You know the pandemic is real when even Bill Gates has a podcast now.

It's official. You have a really interesting podcast that you are co-hosting with Rashida Jones. I love this. You've got Bill and Rashida and you're asking big questions. And what's interesting about this is you two seems so different and you have many similarities. You know, you both went to Harvard, I believe, right? The only difference is she actually graduated. So the question I have is, do you sometimes feel a little inadequate hosting with Rashida when you're a college dropout?

I feel more inadequate because she is so articulate and she's an artist and I like to give out lots of numbers which are just boring as heck. So, thank goodness. I think the word you were looking for there was nerd. I think that's what you were looking for. Yeah, I'm a nerd. Although, she likes she to to to to to th, she th, she th, she th, she th, she th, she th, she th, she th, she th, she th, she th, th, th, th, th, th, I th, Ithank goodness. I think the word you were looking for there was nerd. I think that's what you were looking for. Yeah, I'm a nerd. Although she likes to read too, but it's a good balance. It was a lot of fun doing it with her. She's not as optimistic about the future as I am and I'm trying to bring her around, you know whether it's the pandemic or climate change to her about there is a path. There. there. there. There's. There's. There's. There's. There's. There's. There's. There's. There's. There's. There's. There's a th. There's a th. There's a th. There's a th. There's a th. It's a th. It's a th. It's a th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. th. the th. th. the the th. the th. the the the th. the the th. the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. Yeah. th. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. th. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's a th. It's a th. It's a th. It's a th. It's a th. It's a the. I. It's a the. I's a the. I's the. I's the. I's the. I's the. I's a the. I's a th. I's a a path. There's a path, it's fun. I know Dr. Fauci is your first guest,

and it's a really, really fun podcast. It's fun to hear the both of you and the dynamic that you have. And I hope a lot of people will tune in because it's just a different way to listen to these conversations. As for you joining me for the work that you're doing. Good luck with everything, including the conspiracy theories, and hopefully I'll see you on the other side of the tunnel. Yeah, in person someday. Some day. In person, my friend. See you then.

All right. Bye-bye. The Daily Show with Cover No. the Daily Show with C. the Daily Show, weeknights at 11.10 Central on Comedy. to, and, and, and, and, and, to, and, to, and, to, to, and, to, to, and, to. to. to. to. to. to. the. to. to. the. to. to. to. the the to. to. the the toe. toe. toe. thoome. toe. toe. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And, to. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. the to. the the the the the the the the to. the the the the the to.s.s. the the the the Daily Show.com. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram and subscribe to the Daily Show on YouTube for exclusive content and more. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. You're rolling?

But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes, a second look, starting September 17th. Wherever you get your podcasts. This has been a Comedy Central Podcast.