The Daily Show: Ears Edition - ICYMI - Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie on How to Raise a Feminist Child

Episode Date: March 7, 2019

Nigerian author Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie discusses negative stereotypes of feminism, the implications of chivalry on gender roles and her book "Dear Ijeawele." Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. Hey guys, this is Tom Segura. And I'm Bert Kreischer. And you're listening to Two Bears One Cave, or you should be listening to Two Bears One Cave. We are on Spotify. On Spotify. And we are not smart.

That's an understatement. But you'll have a lot of fun, hopefully. I think you might enjoy it if you give us your perfect blood work back from your doctor and you have full permission to tie one on, make sure you check out two bears one cave. It's with me, Tom Segura and my co-host, Bert Chrysler, the machine. My shirt's off. Please welcome Chim fan of your words for a long time. I have to ask you before we get into the book. As a person who is considered as one of the most foremost feminists of our time. Why is it that so many people see the word feminist as a negative thing? Because I think that feminism has long been associated with the most extreme versions of it. So people think a feminist is sort of a crazy woman who hates men and doesn't

shave and... Right? So all of these sort of really crazy negative stereotypes that have been attached to feminism. And so people don't want to associate with it. There are people who've said to me, why do you call yourself feminist? Why don't you just say you're a humanist or an equalist? But that is what feminism is. Right. Feminism is about justice for everyone. You have to name a problem. the problem, why, why, why, why, why, why, the problem, the problem, why, the problem, the problem, tha, tha, tha, tha, thiiii, why, thi, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why thi, why thi, why thi, why thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii, thi, thi, thi, theminism is about justice for everyone. You have to name a problem. And the problem is it's women who've been excluded.

So we need to call it what it is. Wow. That's fascinating, because that's, um... In many ways, that's the same thing people say about black lives matter. the thate that rest of the lives matter. The problem needs to be a obstacle. Yes. The book that you have written here is really different from your other offerings. It's a feminist manifesto in 15 suggestions. And I like that you keep making it easier and easier for people to be feminists.

This is a really interesting book. How did this book come about? So a few years ago, I wrote, my friend had a baby and so she said to me I want her to be feminist, I want her life to be better than mine, what should I do? I was like, I don't know. And then, so then I thought I should write her a letter. It was an email that I wrote to her. And then I decided to my daughter is two and a half, did I realize how easy it is to sort of tell people what to do about child raising when you don't have a child.

It's much easier to deal with a hypothetical child than a real child. But I'm still trying to follow all of the suggestions. It's just that it's more difficult than you would think. What would you say is the most most most most most most most most most most most most most most most most most most most most most most most most most most most most most most most most most difficult is the most difficult is the most difficult is the most difficult is the most difficult is the most difficult is more difficult is more difficult difficult difficult is more difficult is more difficult. the most difficult is more difficult. the most difficult. the most to be to be to be more difficult. to be to be to to to to to to to to to to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to thi. the thi. the the thi. the the the the thi. the the the the the the the the the the tell. to the to to to to to to to to to to than you would think. What would you say is the most difficult part of teaching a child or raising a child to be a feminist? You know, it's not that it's easy to do, but it's that you have to fight against, it sort of feels like the universe has a conspiracy against you. So you tell your child, you know, you don't have to play with dolls. But then you go to go the store store the store the store the store there's still very much that blue and pink binary in the wall.

And you're trying to teach your child that, you know, you can be whoever you want to be. So it can feel as though there's a lot that you need to push back, you know, from the world. But it's doable. I'm very optimistic about how we can change the world. What I've always admired about your words on feminism is that you don't seem to live in a world where it's abstract or it's just extreme. Like it never seems to me like you talk about feminism, like this is how it is and it's, it's, that is the way it is.

Like in the book, for instance, there are some suggestions where you talk about how you can encourage your daughter if she she she she she she to be anything she wants to be, to like blue, to play with boys, toys, etc. But that shouldn't mean that she should shun her femininity. That's not what feminism is. So when people find themselves caught up in a conundrum with feminism, like what is the one thing they could say to themselves that just makes it easier to understand? Think of yourself as an individual. Right. Right.

There's no. I think feminism and femininity are not mutually exclusive. I think that the early feminist in the West shone femininity because femininity had for so long been used as a way to put them down. So women were property. You're supposed to look pretty and stay at home. So I think when women started to push back against that, they were like, we don't want pretty. But I think now we've come to a stage where we can accept that people can be many things, you can be feminine and feminist.

It depends on whether you want to be. The problem is if somebody is pushing you to be what you don't want to be, then that's not feminism. So I usually say to women who are thinking about it. Just think of your individual self, right? What do you like? And is that thing causing you harm? Right? Is it somehow, is it reducing your spirit? Is it making you resentful? Because I think that when there's really quality,

resentment will not exist. Right? In relationships where people are unhappy because there's a gender problem, is it's resentment. If there isn't a problem, you just, you don't have resentment. You kind of know it's intuitive, I think. Right. Would you say then it's still possible for a woman? I mean, I know my mom always says this to me, but some people struggle with the concept. Would you say it's possible for a woman to say, I'm a feminist, I believe in equality, but I still want a man to open the door for me. I like that gesture or is that problematic in of itself? You know the thing about by the way your mother is wonderful just from reading your book

thank you you're so fortunate to have been raised by her I'm serious I think I think everything good in you is because your mother raised you. You know what's funny is now we don't know I appreciate that but it and the way you said it is, it's a beautiful compliment that sounds like an insult. You know, it's just like everything good in you is from your mom. That rest of that shit is you and your dad. But yeah, but thank you. But how do you respond to that idea? But how do you respond the door for the toen, but how do you respond the door for everyone. Right. I hold the door for men and women. And so I think the

idea of sort of holding the door for a woman because she's a woman, I have trouble with it. I'm quite happy for people to hold the door for me, but I hope they're not doing it because of this sort of idea of shivelry. Because shivary is really about the idea women are somehow weak. Right. Right. Right. And really what I the idea is really is really is the idea is the idea is the idea is the idea the idea the idea the idea the idea the idea is the idea the idea the idea the idea the idea is the idea is the idea is really the idea is really the idea the idea is really the idea idea idea idea idea idea idea idea idea idea idea idea idea idea idea idea idea idea idea idea idea idea idea is really the idea the idea the idea idea the idea the idea idea the idea the idea the idea idea idea the idea idea idea the idea idea idea idea the idea the idea idea the idea idea idea the idea the idea idea idea the idea idea the idea idea the idea the idea idea the idea the idea idea idea the idea the idea idea the idea idea the idea idea the idea the idea the idea the idea the idea the idea the idea the idea the idea the idea the idea the idea the idea the idea the idea the idea their idea their idea their idea of their idea of their we know that really there are many women who are stronger than many men. Right. Right. So really what I think is that the people we should protect are people who need protecting, whether men or women, which is also why I sort of have trouble with the idea of women and children, when women are classified in the same, you know, when there's a tragedy and we say women and children should leave first. I think actually is the people who are weak, unwell, you know, you know, young, who should leave first. Wow, this is like a more eloquent

argument of what some of the guys on the Titanic said. They're like, I think Chimamander would want me to leave with women and children stay behind, but but I really do understand what you are saying. There's a fascinating passage in the book and this was, it's called the seventh suggestion, and in this, it's, the line, the paragraph starts with, never speak of marriage as an achievement. And then when we skip forward, it says, when Hillary Clinton was running for President of the United States, the first descriptor on her Twitter account was wife. The first descriptor on the Twitter account of Bill Clinton, her husband is founder, not husband.

Because of this I have an unreasonable affection for the very few men who use husband as their first descriptor. Do you think in that moment it made you feel like in society we've created a world where the best thing you can be as a woman sometimes is a wife to a man, but a man can have every other achievement? Was that the problem with that idea for yourself? Yes, yes. But it's also the larger question of what we expect of women in public life. Why? I think that there are many people for whom Hillary Clinton is not relatable unless she primarily defines herself in domestic terms, wife, mother, but wife in particular. Because I think it makes people feel comfortable. I thinn't their the problem their their the problem their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their th. th. I th. th. their problem, th. th. th. their problem, their their their their problem, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thiiiiiiiuuiuiuioliu. I, th. I'm, th. I'm, th. I. I'm, t. I'm, th. I'm, th. I'm, their, their, their, their, their, their, but wife in particular. Because I think it makes people feel comfortable.

I think people are very, people don't know what to do with the idea of a woman who has power or who's seeking power. And so the way to somehow temper that is to say, well, wife, I'm a wife, so therefore, I'm not that scary. And it's not, I mean, obviously, I think marriage is a wonderful, marriage, marriage, marriage, marriage, marriage, marriage, marriage, marriage, marriage, marriage, marriage, marriage, marriage, marriage, marriage is a wonderful, marriage is a wonderful, marriage, marriage is a wonderful, marriage, marriage, marriage is a wonderful, marriage, marriage is a wonderful, marriage, and a wonderful, and a wonderful, the wa, the wa, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their woe, their woe, their woe, their, their, their, their, their, their, and it can be, you know, just such a joy and all of that, but it's that we raise girls to aspire to marriage in a way we don't raise boys to. And I think there's a problem with that. So you have little girls who, from very early on are thinking about the wedding dress, right? their little, thate. Right. Not at all, yeah, that's true. So what it means is

that there's an immediate imbalance I think, right, in just the idea of what is aspirational. And so I think what we should do is in raising boys and girls teach them that love is wonderful, marriage is wonderful, but none of that is something that one should aspire to. Right, when you say to a girl, oh, you got your PhD, but when are you getting married? Right, which is a common phrase we hear all the time. When raising a child and saying, I'm going to raise a feminist, for many people, the immediate connotation that will come to their mind is that means you're raising a daughter. But from reading your work, a lot of the work has to be done by men, men need to participate. Why is that so tha tha tha tha thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. We thi. When, thi. When, when thi. thi. thi. When, when thi. When, when th. th. When th. When th. th. th. th. When th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to to to to to to to to to toeeei. We toei. I toei. We toei. We thei. When the. When the. When by men, men need to participate. Why is that so important? Because men have to be on board.

I think you can change women all you want. If you don't change men, nothing changes. Because we share the world, right? It's men and women. And I also think, sadly, that we live in a world where men are more likely to listen. Oh. It's true. It's th. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's th. th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thin. thin. thin. thin. thin. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. thi. thi. th. th. don't think so. So then how do you convince the first man? I think some men have already been convinced. I think people like Barack Obama, for example, is a very good role model because he's feminist and his cool. Right? So he's

actually a good, and we need more men like that to speak up. I think men need to speak up, men need to not think of feminism as something to sort of, something that's attacking them. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. I thi. I thi thi thi thi thi thi. I thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi to thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii thi thi thi thi thi to not think of feminism as something to sort of something that's attacking them. I think some men think that. They need to understand that feminism is something that's good for everyone because really when all of us are released from gender rules we're all better off. Right. And in the end it's about justice don't we want to live in a just world? So there's some men who've been convinced, more men need to be. Trevor, you should get cracking. I'm going to call my mom. I'm going to call my mom. Thank you so much for being on the show. I really love to see you every single time.

It's an amazing book. Dear Ij'Awaleh is available now. Chimamanda Adichy, everybody. The Daily Show with CoverNoa, Ears Edition. Watch the Daily Show Weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central and the Comedy Central app. Watch full episodes and videos at the Daily Show. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram and subscribe to the Daily Show on YouTube for exclusive content and more. Hey guys, this is Tom Segura. And I'm Burke Chrysher. And you're listening to Two

Bears One Cave. We are on Spotify. And we are not smart. That's an understatement. And you're listening to two bears one cave. And you'll have a to to to to to to to to to to the the the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their. their. their. their their their their their. the their. their. their. their. their. the the the the the the the the the the the daily. the daily. the daily. the daily. the daily. the daily. the daily. the d. the d. the d. the d. the daily. the d. the daily. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the ta ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta.a. ta.a.a.a.a. ta. ta.a.a. ta.a. ta. ta. ta. ta Bears One Cave. We are on Spotify. On Spotify. And we are not smart? That's an understatement. But you'll have a lot of fun, hopefully. I think you might enjoy it if you give us a listen. If you got your perfect blood work back from your doctor and you have full permission to tie one on, make sure you check out Two Bears One Cove. ties to, the Machine. My shirt's off. This has been a Comedy Central podcast.

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