The Daily Show: Ears Edition - ICYMI - Daniel Kaluuya on "Judas and the Black Messiah"

Episode Date: May 16, 2021

Actor Daniel Kaluuya talks about his latest movie, "Judas and the Black Messiah," and his complex portrayal of Fred Hampton, the Illinois leader of the Black Panther Party. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes, a second look on Apple podcasts starting September 17th. I am a revolutionary. What's that in trouble, man? What's going on? You can kill

a revolution. Can I tell you something, Daniel Kaluya, that is my favorite, let me tell you something, man, it's been a while since I watched a movie. Man, kudos to everyone. Kudos to yourself, kudos to LeKith. Kudos to Shaka King. This is, yeah, man. If I had the Oscars at my house, I'll just give them, them, them, them, them, them, them, them, the, the, I, the, I, I, I, the, I, I, the, I, the, the, I, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th, th, th, th, th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, t, t, tell, tell, tell, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, t, t, t, t, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell you tell you tell you tell you tell you tell you tell you to.. told. told. told, to me, told, to me. told, to me. told me. tell you something. tell you something. tell you something. tell you now. We don't need to go to the awards. We just take the Oscars, we give them to you now and you go home and you do whatever you want with them. How are you doing, my dude?

I'm going for it, bro, this press run, speaking about this, now I'm good. I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good so I'm feeling good man. How are you? I like your hair man. Thank you very much man. I'm ready to join the Black Panther Party. That's what I'm ready to do right now. Hey bro, I can see you on the front line with that headstown. I can tell you feed some kids with a breakfast program right now. Oh man, this movie. And you must be tired man. You must be running around doing press because everybody should want to speak to you about this film. Judas and the Black Messiah. Like, look, Daniel, you've known for a long time I'm one of your biggest fans, but you know, there are things that, you know, even if you love Lionel Messi, there's still a goal that he'll score where you're like, how did he do that? Even if you love Rinald or he'll do like, how do you do that? That. That. That. That. That. That. That. That, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, th, th, that, th, you've, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, you've, you've, you've, you've, you've, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you th.... Daniel, you th. You've th. Daniel, you th. Daniel, th. You've th. th. th. than, you've than, you know, you know, than, than, than, than, than, than, than, than, than, than, than, you know, you know, you've than how you act. Whether it's Queen and Slim, you know, whether it's Get Out, it doesn't matter what it is. But in this film, in Judas and the Black Messiah,

we see a side of not just the Black Panther Party, but Fred Hampton that I think many people wouldn't know about in American history. Tell me a little bit about the story and why Daniel Kulia decided now, I think I can bring this person to life in a way that a lot of people haven't seen before. Yeah, you know, Chairman Fred, he was a man of the people, you know, he was in Chicago and he became chairman of the Illinois Chapter of the Black Panther Party. And it, Ryan and Zinzi Kugler actually pulled me to the side on the Black Panther Re-Shoot and asked me to be a part of it. And when I just thought honored, I just felt honored to that they even saw me in that way.

You know, it's something that came to me. They saw it before I saw it. And, um, and, uh, and then yeah, I just read the script and I was just like, you know, there's a lot of information about how he died,. Right. That's what it is. It's like, wow, this guy lived incredibly. You know what I'm saying? He knew things on a deep, deep, deep level and not only knew them, executed them. Right. The knowledge, and he had original thoughts, and then he did something about it in a way that was digestible to people that were like him. You know, it's like th, he that he that he that he that he that he that was like, he that was like, he that was like, he that was like, he that was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was that's that he was like, he was that's that's that he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he knew that he knew that he knew that he knew, he knew, he knew, he did. He was, he did. He was, he did. He was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was that he was that he that he that he that he that he was that he was that he was that that that that that that was that was that was that was that was that was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was that's that's that's that's that's th. He was th. He was that's that's thi. He was thi. He was thi. He was thi. He was that's digestible to people that were like him. You know, it's like, there's so much that has to happen there and he was 20-21.

Right. For this, you know, it's like, he was just, I say he's like, he's a brilliant mind and a brilliant heart. So for that, it's kind of like, you know, it's kind of like, you know, it's kind of like it was learning about Chairman Fred allowed me to grow as a man, you know. I can only imagine. So, and look at my preconceptions, look at my fears and hang-ups that I had and kind of grow in order to kind of occupy his words, you know? I think preconceptions is the perfect word because the stories that we've been told about so many historical figures are told by the people who oftentimes either ended their lives prematurely or didn't want them to free the people

they were trying to free. I mean, Nelson Mandela was labeled as a terrorist, you know. Mahatma Gandhi was persona non grata with the British. Fred Hampton was no different. And what I love about this story is, it doesn't show us a simplistic view of the Black Panther Party or Fred Hampton. It shows us a holistic view. In this film, though, we go, these were human beings fighting for their rights, and what I loved was how the story talks about how the Black Panther Party built a coalition

of black, white, and Hispanic to fight against oppression. Yeah, yeah, that was the scariest thing to the powers that be, you know, is that that that that that that that that that the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thiiqqi, thi, thi.s, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. And, th. And, th. And, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi.e, thi.e, thi.e, thi.e, thi.e, thi.e, thi.e, thin.e, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, the. And, the.a.a.a. And, thea.a. And, thea.a. And, thea. And, the. And, the. And, is that that Chairman Fred had the knowledge, the clarity and the ability to kind of see people from different communities and understand that they were more aligned than people would think, especially people that they had conflicts with, which like the young patriots, you know, there's a scene in the film where we go in there and we're greeted with the Confederate flag. Right. And even in conflict, Chairman Fred and a Black Panther Party found points of interest, you know, but not in sacrifice of their love of blackness and love of the black community. Right. Because now we live in a day and age, if you join with someone that isn't aligned of you, you feel like you're selling out, you're compromising yourself.

Is that they, that thought was even in their mind. It it it it it it it it was all it was all all all their their their, it was all, it was all, it was all, it was all, it was all, it was all, it was all, it was all, it was all, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, tho, tho, tho, thi, th. themed, themed, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the. And, the. And, that that thought was even in their mind? It was all to bolster the love for the community, but they saw that they were, it was better in solidarity than in fragmentation, you know? I would love to know from your side as Daniel, how did you begin to embody Fred the way that you did? Like what did you look for in him that helped you bring him to life in this movie? You know, it is Trevor, I was in a space where I would watch his speeches and be aware of how I was feeling as a result of it.

You know what I'm saying? I'm going, how I was feeling moved and that. So then I was like, oh, my goal is to occupy his spiritual space, that position. Saying, and Cole, I want to move the audience, I the audience, I that that that that that that that that that that to move, I that to move, I that to move, I to move, I to move, I to move, I to move, I to move, I to move, I to move, I was to move, I was to move, I was moving, I was that that to move, I was to, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was that that that that that that that that that that that that that th.a, I was th. th. to be to to th. to th. to th. th th th th toda.a.a.a, too.a. t today, I was today, I was th th th th that, I was th to occupy his spiritual space, that position, saying Enco, I want to move the audience in the way that he is moving me at this moment. You know, I don't really know the words for that feeling that I felt, but I knew I felt it. And I said, I knew I was able to occupy it. And I was like, all right, cool, let me just go there and let me have that as my aspiration in tms of this and that's kind of, it's kind of like, you're a vessel in those situations in certain scenes, but saying his actual words. I mean, you can't help but let the words tell you how to play it.

Let the words tell you how to be. The voice. Talk me through the voice and how important that was, because I feel like get out was all made those eyes come alive. It felt like that was the whole story. And it felt like in this, a lot of Fred is that voice. Yeah, it was, the voice was everything in approaching it. So then I was, when I started dialect with Audrey Lecron, amazing dialect coach, it was a real, kind of real challenge. And also another thing is what I had to really watch my voice

because I'm not classically trained. Well how I arrived to acting was a very raw improv way. Yeah. I had a tenancy when I did plays to kind of just go and just lead with emotion but damage my voice and I knew on this one I couldn't afford to. I was able because you're doing 12 hour days with just doing speeches. So Audrey said you should look into a singing coach. Wow. I'm with an opera singing coach and then and then because I the I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I the I the I had I just I just I just I just I just I just I just I just I just I just I just I just I just I just I just I just I just I just I just I just I just I just I just I just I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I did I the I the I the I the I the I the I the I the I the I th th. I th. th. I th. th. th. I th. th. th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I the the the the the the the the th. I did I did I singing coach. I found an opera singing coach. Wow. I'm with an opera singing coach. And then, and then because I just, I loved the way opera singers commanded the space. And I saw, sonically, Chairman Fred felt like that. Yeah.

How he occupied a room. You know, he just occupied it. And, and because of the amount I was doing, I needed to engage my diaphragm and condition my vocal chords for those kind of days. And so I would do gospel songs and I would do songs that felt like Chairman Fred's speeches, then I would do the speeches. And then I was studying cadence, because he had a different cadence to when he did speech. Right.

So identify and defining those differences, but also feeling like the same person. It's kind of like, it was, it was, it was, uh, there was a kind of, but also, for me, it's, for me, it was, what was the speech patterns was like a clue into his thought patterns? Having spent all this time embodying the man, researching him, have about Fred Hampton that you've learned about him and maybe has changed in your mind as well since taking on this role? I was blessed enough that I didn't have any preconceptions about him, you know, and I didn't have any preconceptions about the Black Papua party. I just understood that other people in order for, you know, like the white fear dressed as hate. Right, right. It manifested as like these people are like killing, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, their, their, their, their, their, their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and thi, and thi, and thi, and, and thi, and maybe thi, and maybe thi, and maybe, and maybe, and maybe, and maybe, and maybe, and maybe, and maybe, and maybe, and their, and their, and their their, and their their their, and their, and their their, and their, and their, and the know, like the white fear dressed as hate, and all for it manifested as like these people are like killing us, they're terrorists, they like the Ku Klux Klan.

You know, and it's that kind of thing where like, actually I feel like these people were like had incredible uncompromising love for themselves. And they would, they would guard themselves with guns and they guard their community with guns because, because you're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're theyir community with guns because you're trying to kill us. It's like if you don't protect your family, I say if someone got a burglary comes into your house and you don't protect your family, what are you saying about yourself and what you feel about your family? You know, everyone understands that scenario. But I think the black community within America, there's a lot happening as these people that occupy in their spaces and oppressing these people and black people around the world, you know, press all that.

If you don't stand up for yourself, it doesn't make sense. It makes sense to protect yourself. But it's not only did they protect themselves, they loved themselves. You know, and the protection was just a manifestation of a form of love, you know. One thing that really stood out to me in this film was realizing how people are connected around the globe without even realizing it. And when you watch the story of the Black Panthers, they were an international organization.

They were here, you know, and they were trying to expand in the U.S. but they talked to people from different places around the world and said you share a struggle that we share and we want to do this together. How do you think that has factored into like how you play these roles and what you think about it? You know when you when you look at that shared experience on the globe, because some people might be like, oh, Daniel Kuyi, you come from England, you drink tea all black and we're all experiencing this oppression in a similar and yet different way.

I think that Chairman Fred especially, I understood it was an international struggle, you know. You see in the first speech that he references the Mozambique and Frey L'Urille Mothay, you know, right, right, right? I the struggle, I the, I the, I the, I the, I the, I that, I that, I that, I that, I that, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I think, I think, I think, I thian, I thian, I thian, I thinks, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I th... I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I thin, I thin, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I thin, I thin, I th. I th. I th. You know, it's that he's he's connecting the dots. You know, when I was like, he's points of references were like, Yomo Kinya. You know, it's like, and you can go on that kind of rabbit hole and go down there and find out all the stuff that's happening there in terms of how to battle what's happening here.

And sometimes what pitfall is to look out for. You know, overflowing, actually, you're just replacing what was there with a black face. You know what I'm saying? It's, and the issue is capitalism, you know. Yes. And so it's understanding, understanding that he, he, they saw it as a macro point of view, you know, and it's like, they saw it is a Western construct that's kind of, a Western virus. It's like, you know, what's, the, the, it, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the, the, thi, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th. th. th. th. th. that, that, they. th. they. th. they. the, the, they. the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, it is, this is a Western construct that's kind of, a Western virus. It's like, you know, it's like, it's like a pandemic, you know. And what's, what's happened to black people and the oppression of black people from white fear and white anxiety? I hope that everyone sees the film, and then I hope that everyone who's voting sees the film as well,

because it deserves every award, a world possible. Thank you for being here. I th. I th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, tho, tho, tho, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, tha. And, tha. And, tha. And, what's, what's, what's, man. Appreciate you, my bro. Watch the Daily Show, weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount Plus. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. You're rolling? But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible.

I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 minutes, a second look, starting September 17th, wherever you get your podcasts. This has been a Comedy Central Podcast.