The Daily Show: Ears Edition - ICYMI - Darnell L. Moore on Rethinking Gender and Sexuality in "No Ashes in the Fire"

Episode Date: July 1, 2020

"No Ashes in the Fire" author Darnell L. Moore describes the obstacles facing black members of the LGBTQ community and discusses the "thuggish masculinity" of President Trump. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes, a second look on Apple podcasts starting September 17th.

My guest tonight is a writer and activist whose new memoir is called No Ashes in the Fire coming of age black and free in America. Please welcome, Don Elmour. Welcome. Thank you for having me here. I have read a lot of your writing. I have followed some of the pieces that you've written online. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having to hear.

I have read a lot of your writing. I have, you know, followed some of the pieces that you've written online. Many people consider you one of the most important voices in young American black culture and American culture as a whole. Those are your friends, but they're good people. The book, though, gave me an insight into your life and into a life that many people have lived in America that's really painful and fascinating. No ashes in the fire speaks to the first inciting incident in this book book, th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th tho tho tho tho the book tho the book the book the book the book tho the book tho the tho tho tho tho tho tho thoic, thi, their voices thi. thiol-a, thiol-a, thiou-a, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, in, in, in, in a th. th. th. th. th, th, th, th, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi. thi. thi. thi. thiii. thiiiii. thi. thi. thi. thi, their their thi, painful and fascinating. No ashes in the fire speaks to the first inciting incidents in this book where someone tried to set you on fire as a child. Now luckily that didn't happen. Could you could you just share that story that gets us into the book? Yeah, so I was 14 and a group of neighborhood kids. People I would consider folk who had been friends at

some point jump me. I used to get picked on a lot because of my gender presentation. And in this particular incident, after they jumped me, they tried to light a match after they doucesting me with a gallon of gasoline. But the fire, the flame did not light, the wind sort of took it out. But here's what I want to say about that story. It is a tragic story and it's one that's common. I don't want to turn this into like an exceptional story. That's something that I went through individually. Young people across the country around the world who experience themselves as different are often picked on. But here's a thing, like punishment is not what I imagine as the route for transformation

for those young people. By the time I finished a book, I was searching online, wanted to make sure that the brother that tried to do that was alive, was well, was not in jail, because cages can't transform hearts and minds. Prisons can't do that. So I am hoping that whoever, wherever wherever they can be in the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the try. If the the try. If try. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. I'm, trie. C. C. C. C. I's is, try. I's, try. I is, try. I is, try. I is, try. I is is is is is, try. I is is is. C. I is is. I is. I is. I is. I is. I is. I is. I is. I is. I is. I is. I is. I is. I is. I is. I is. I is. I's is. I's is. I's is. I's is. I's t. I'm t. I'm te. I'm te. I'm te. I'm. I'm. I'm te. I'm te. I'm te. I'm te. I'm trie. I'm tri. I wherever they are, that they can be in a type of space where they're imagining a world where everybody can be free, everybody can be who they are. It's interesting that you have such a powerful world view, one that is filled with so much compassion, considering that as a gay black person in America,

you have faced at many times the utmost persecution. When you look at the journey that gay black people face tha tha the the the the the the the the the the history the the the the history the the the the history the the the the the the the the the the theateate, their their theateateateate, theate, the, the, the, their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their the, the, the the the the the the the the the the the the.. the. thean. thean. tean. tean. tean. tean. teanananananananananananananeananananananananananananeanananananananea many times the utmost persecution. When you look at the journey that gay black people face in particular, you know, the history of queer rights in America is one that is not hidden, and then black rights is compounded on top of that, do you think that makes the experience unique and even more powerful? Well, it's interesting, so I'll start by saying, James Bault, when asked his question sometime, like, how do you feel about being black and gay? It's like, wonderful.

I mean, shit. In many ways, I am who I am because of my experience of growing up in the world as a black, queer person. Like, queerness is magic. It's not poison. Like, like this it feels good to be free to be who you are to be in your skin and name that but that is also I think you know it's important to note that you know to be black and queer are black and trans are black and gender not conforming you're facing multiple

issues at once multiple arrows coming your way which is why when we we tell about LGBT progress and only way that progress with regards to rights that are impacting some, like if you're black and queer, you're not only facing homophobia, our antagonism because you're a trans person or a gentraniconform, you're facing racism. And if you're poor, you're going to face all that comes along with being economically disenfranchised. And if you're a young person, you're going to face all that comes along with that. In New York City alone, most of the homeless folks, the young people that live on the streets, about 40% of them are LGBTQ.

But when we talk about LGBT progress, we don't think about these particular lies, and I think that's important for us cover in the book. And what I love is the book is really three parts. I mean, it is your memoir. It takes us through your life. But at the same time, you give us the context. That's why so many of these situations came to be. You also give us a snapshot of America as it stands right now. When you look at the black community, of equity. It's not dissimilar where you have people who seem progressive in many different ways but when it comes to homosexuality there seems to be this roadblock. You know in hip-hop

that's one of the biggest dilemmas is the space of people going like we're trying to be ahead of the curve of woke or whatever and it's like but there's still that whole like are you you gay or you thi thi think you begin that conversation thin.. thi thi thi. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi thi thi. thi. thi. thi. the the the the thi. thi. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thee theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee live within a context where, you know, I don't make the claim that black folk are more homophobic, you know, this is America. I mean, that's the Donald Gleversa, but this is America, you know what I'm saying? In so many ways, we have a country that is, and just its recent history, um, have begun to overturn draconian laws with regards to LGBT-l-gib to LGBT-gib to LGBT-gibibibibibibibibib LGBT LGBT LGBT LGBT LGBT LGBT LGBT LGBT LGBT LGBT LGBT LGBT LGBT LGBT LGBT LGBT LGBT LGBT-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-people LGBT-people LGBT-people LGBT-people LGBT-people LGBT-people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people, to to to to to to, have begun to overturn draconian laws with regards to LGBT people. And America liked to tel itself as the most progressive country in the world.

We have a lot of work to do in this country, not just with regards to understanding how expansive sexuality is and queerness. But look, if we can't even talk about gender, manhood and masculinity as a cage for some folk, right, if we can't talk about the problems that gender presents us, the fact that we tell little boys to be real men, like let them be kids first. We're definitely like going to be at a point where we can rethink sexuality. So I think we have worked to do, here's a thing, what would it mean for us to abolish, to get rid of all of these boxes altogether

that for some folk are cages. Cages cannot be routes to freedom. Cages are not doorways to freedom. So we got to get free. We got to let some of these ideas go. Right. And when you look at Pride Month and the celebration celebration celebration celebration celebration There is that constant idea of we can celebrate, we can celebrate the progress that we've made as people, but at the same time there is a lot of work to be done.

What do you think still needs to be done within the LGBTQ space? We definitely need to have a celebration. I mean, I kind of wear the shirt, like, with all the ripples on it so we can celebrate. Because, you know, we need space to honor and to celebrate difference too. But we have to not be committed to all of the ideas and norms that have been cages for so many people, that have not brought freedom.

And let me tell you how I know that's just not a problem for black folk. We have a person in the White house who is lifted up and celebrated, particularly because he performs a thugish masculinity, that if performed by anyone who was not a white man, would we call a thug or in jail, but this one gets elected president because of America's attraction to a type of toxic masculinity, which is another way of them thinking about men and power. And look, now we got a president that so many people voted for even women a big block a big voting block was 53%

white women so this is telling me that society has to let go of our deep deep deep deep desire attraction to the toxicity that is masculinity in the ways that we're seeing it now running in a White House and any other ways in which we are asking of people to perform in our everyday life. Like, get rid of that, man. Get rid of that, man. It's an amazing book. No Ashes in the Fire. I could not recommend it more. Is available now.

Don Elmore, everybody. This has been a Comedy Central podcast. When 60 Minutes premiered in September, 19 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible.

I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes a second look on Apple podcasts starting September 17.