The Daily Show: Ears Edition - ICYMI - Eric Holder Discusses Rampant Gerrymandering, James Comey and His Hope for America

Episode Date: July 13, 2019

Former Attorney General Eric Holder talks about gerrymandering's effect on democracy, corruption in the Trump administration and rumors that he'll run for president in 2020. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. Hey everybody, John Stewart here. I am here to tell you about my new podcast. The Weekly Show is going to be coming out every Thursday. So exciting. You'll be saying to yourself, TGID. Thank God it's Thursday we're going to be talking about. All the things that hopefully obsess you in the same way that they obsess me. The election. Economics. Earnings calls. What are they talking about on these earnings calls? We're going to be talking about

ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches. And I know that I listed that fourth, but in importance, it's probably second. I know you have a lot of options as far as podcasts go, but how many of them come out on Thursday? I mean, talk about innovative. Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart, wherever you get your podcast. Please welcome, Eric Holder. Great. Welcome to the show.

It's good to be here. Great. Welcome to the show. It's good to be here. Great to have you on, especially now. There's so many things to talk to you about as a former attorney general about James about James Compton. Things have been happening.

You haven't been on the Twitter? The Twitter has some things happening. Well, no, I was flying from LA today, so I must have missed it. Oh yeah, you missed a year. That's what you missed. get into all that stuff later. I wanted to start with the news that's breaking today. Starbucks has announced that they're going to be closing 8,000 of their stores to have a day of racial bias training. And in the press release, they mentioned you as one of the experts they're going to consult. How does that work?

Like, do you you going to do and what do you think needs to be done? Well, I think that Starbucks as a company that has done a lot around racial issues, and I think they understand that what happened in Philadelphia was inappropriate, was wrong, and they want to try to get things right. And I think that what they're going to try to do is close the stores, go through some unconscious bias, too, too, too, too, and their, and their, and their, and their, and tho, and their, and tho, and I, and I, and I and I and I and I and I and I'm, thi and I'm thi and I'm thi. thi. thi, thrue and throwne, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, their thi. thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And I throoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, a I am a member to help advise them in that regard, and hopefully not have a repeat of that. But what I think is that we should not, as a society, as a country, feel comfort in the notion that this is a Starbucks problem. This is a problem that is much larger. This is a problem that our nation traced back hundreds of years. It's a large problem that permeates society, like you say, not just into Starbucks.

One of the issues you're dealing with right now is in many ways tied to race in America. Cannot be separated, and that's gerrymandering. You're working on a project right now that deals with gerrymandering. What are you doing? Head of the National Democratic Redistricting Committee, and what we want to try to do is to put in place when redistricting is done again in 2021. It's done every 10 years, so that fair districts are drawn. The Republicans in 2011 drew districts that were highly partisan, unfair in nature.

Princeton did a study and said these are the worst gerrymandered districts in the last 50 years. Right. And as a result, we see safe districts for Republicans that have led to a whole variety of things, an unresponsive state legislatures. If 97% of the American people who want to have background checks, expanded background checks when it comes to the sale of guns, can't get it out of Congress because of a gerrymandered Congress. But now if some people say, but fair play to the Republicans, they found how the system was working and they did everything legally and they worked within their means. You know, President Obama said he regretted that the Democratic Party didn't pay enough attention

to it. So isn't this just part for the course? Is that how you see it? No. I actually think that there's a case before the case before before before before before before before the case before the case before the case before the case before the case before the case before the case before the case before the case before the case before the case before the case before the case before the case before the case before the case before the case before the case before the case before the case their case their case their case the case before their case their case their case their case before their case before before their their case. the case. the case. the case. the case. the case. the case case case case case case case case case case case case case case case case case before their case case case case be the Supreme Court will look at what they did in 2011 and say that it was unconstitutional, inconsistent with our founding documents, inconsistent with amendments to the Constitution. It's something that we as a nation I think have to have to make better because the reality is our votes are cheapened when we have people who are in safe districts and unresponsive to the people who they are supposed to represent. But now you're working with the Democratic redistricting committee. Does that imply that you're looking to sway it in favor of Democrats? No.

I wouldn't have signed up for this if it was an attempt to gerrymander for Democrats. I think that if we make this a battle between Republicans, Conservatives, Democrats, and Progressives will do just fine. I don't need gerrymand. I I I I I I I I th I there, I th. I th. I th, I th. I thii, I thi, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, I thiole, I thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thiolk, thiolk, thiolk, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi.eeeeeiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii, thi, thi, thi, the Democrats and Progressives will do just fine. I don't need gerrymandered. I think because we're right on the issues. I think we have the support of the people. If you look at, for instance, at Wisconsin, 2012 after the gerrymandering, Republicans get less than 50% of the vote and get 67% of the state legislature and 67% of the congressional representation, and that's continued for the entirety of this decade decade. of of of of of of th, of th, of th, of th, of th, of th, of th, of th, of th, of th, of th, of th, of th, of th. th. th. th. the., theckeckeckeck an, tho, th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th...... And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, toeeeeean, toean, toean, toean, toean, toean, toean, toean, toean continued for the entirety of this decade. Right.

That has to be stopped. Now, some would argue that there's no way to redraw lines on a map in a way that will represent people. Because if you look at how America is designed and where people live, Democrats live mostly in cities. Democrats live in the same places. Or you'll find Democrats in college towns, or you'll find them in historic, like mining communities and manufacturing hubs.

So you'll find Democrats in certain places, and then they're dwarfed by Republican rural votes around them. So, in drawing the maps, aren't you always going to come up with the same problem? Because there's no real way they've shown like they've had all these simulations. It seems like you can'ttrying to fix a problem, but the underlying problem can't be fixed. That's actually one of the myths about gerrymandering. Yeah, there is something to be said for the way in which Democrats tend to cluster, and ways in which Republicans cluster. But that does not explain the way in which you have seen these partisan districts being

drawn, or the results that you have seen as a result of this gerrymandering. The the the the result a function of, even if you're trying to ameliorate this, that you can't do it because of the way in which Democrats, where Democrats live is just simply not true. What do you think is a greater threat to America's democracy? Jerrymandering. In states where you see high levels of gerrymandering, Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas, you see these unnecessary voter ID laws, you know, to combat this non-existent voter fraud.

And so they go, they go hand in hand. The only problem I have with your approach is you you've got a problem with our approach i've got a problem i'm your guest man you yeah and i'm giving you minus a pit if you redraw these lines the problem i have with your approach is you will exclude the three million illegal votes all right what happens then It's not in the water, it's in there. We're going to be chatting more to Eric Holder after the break.

We're going to get into Komi, we're going to get into the AG's job. We'll be right back with more General Eric Holder on the show talking about gerrymandering, talking about the future of America and its votes. Right now, some people feel like America doesn't have a future because of what's happening in the White House. James Comey just came out with a book where he publicly lambasted Trump saying that he's a liar, he mistreats women, he is not fit to be in office.

A lot of people came out and said... Jim got those three things right. Right, right. And it's interesting that you say that because a lot of people say, yeah, but James Comey, you're the last person to come out and criticize anybody because of how much you screwed up when you look at what James Comey did and what he's now trying to say, what are your thoughts on the issue? Yeah, I've known Jim for, I think, 20, 25 years or so.

I think he's a man of integrity. I think he is a good guy, but I think he made a really substantial error in 2016, when he made that initial appearance and said that he was clearing Hillary Clinton and then use that language and then obviously made the statement later on. That was not something for an FBI director to do. That was something for an attorney general to do or in the absence of the attorney general, the deputy attorney general. That was simply, he was out of his lane when he did that. And that, I think, had an impact on the election. I don't think that's the s s something the s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. thee. theee. thee. the. thee. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the think that's the sole thing that caused Hillary's defeat, but it certainly had an impact on the election. Right, and you outspoken about this. You said he made a mistake

and you said it was something that would give the FBI a bad name. The president of the United States currently says the FBI has a bad name. Do you think that Donald Trump has a right then to say that guys the FBI has problems because of everything that James Comey and th and the th. and th. And. the the th. the th. I I I I I I is is, the the the th. I is, the th. I is, th. I's, th. th. thi, the, the, the, thr-I, thr-I, the the thr-I, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the thi, the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the thi, the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thrown, thrown, the, the thean, thean, thean, thean, I mean I think the president's criticism of people in law enforcement, prosecutors, FBI agents is unwarranted, it's inconsistent with the facts. I mean, I worked with these folks almost all of my professional career. They're hardworking, they're dedicated. You know, you don't talk about partisan things when you are in the Justice Department. That's considered something that is inappropriate.

And what I think, so when we hold these elections in 2018 and in 2020, and if the Republicans try to portray themselves as the Law Enforcement Party, I hope people will remember the things that Donald Trump has said about people in law enforcement. Yeah, things will, people will remember and they will vote for him again. His people don't care. I genuinely think they don't. Don't do it. Don't do it.

Oh, I don't, I don't think they're watching. You, uh. That's a good point. That's a good point. Yeah, theymeau. That's a good point. Somebody could have switched off from Hannity tonight. You never know. You never know. You never know. Yeah, don't do it. Don't do it. Um, law enforcement, Donald Trump, the rule of law, corruption.

These are all words that are thrown around every single day with regards to this presidency. People say that Donald Trump and his administration are corrupt. You have commented on his administration being one that is corrupt. But what does that mean? Because people go corruption, but what does that mean? What does corruption mean in that sense? Well, there are tangible things. I mean, whether it is, you know, Scott Pruitt and all the things that we have been reading

about with regard to him, there are any number of things that, I mean, you have to imagine, if Donald Trump, if Brock Obama had done one of the things that Donald Trump had done, what would the reaction have been? Oversight hearings, calls for impeachment, if anybody in the cabinet had acted the way in which you see people acting in Trump's cabinet. You would have had the same thing. There is a fundamental corruption problem in the sense that you have people acquiring things that they shouldn't have. But they're also doing things with regard to the processes of America.

They're breaking through American norms. If not laws, the norms. And the president, for instance, telling the attorney general, telling the Justice Department about certain results that he wants to obtain is inconsistent with the norms that normally govern the way in which a president interacts with an attorney general or his justice department. Right, there are some people who would say, though, that say, Eric Holder, as attorney general, you said that you regretted

the decision the Clinton administration made with regards to Mark Rich, the pardoning of somebody who was tied as a donor to politicians. Someone could say to you then, isn't this what politics is? It just depends on which side of it you're on, is that there's always going to be quid pro quo, there's always going to be somebody, is it a system that you Trump is doing it now? Well, I think those last minute pardons that President Clinton did were, many of them were inappropriate, a substantial number of them were actually good. I was involved in the Mark Rich pardon, and I think there, I made a mistake. And so it's one thing to say that, you know, a person made a mistake. It's a whole other thing to put in place a system that is based on inappropriate motives and ends up with inappropriate results.

And I think that's what the Trump administration is all about. When you see what Trump is going through right now, when you look at the stories, whether it be Michael Cohen, whether it be, you know, financial or Russian-related stories, do you see a future where Donald Trump should be impeached, or are you of the mindset that he should go to an election and the American people should decide his fate?

I mean, I think, you know, the best result would be for him to be rejected resoundingly at the polls. That, however, can't happen until 2020. And I wonder about what is, what kind of damage could he do to our country between now and then. But I don't think that the mid-a the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the toe toe toe toe toeateateateateate, toe, toe. toe. toe. to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, toe, toe, the, toe, the, the, the, the the, the, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the, the, te, the te, te, te, te, te.e. te.e.e. te.e. te.e. te.e. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. to our country between now and then. But I don't think that the midterm elections ought to be about the impeachment of Donald Trump. The midterm elections ought to be about the record of the Trump administration, what they have done with regard to the climate, what they have done with regard to the protection or non-protection of voting rights, the way in which they have tried to deal with choice issues. There are a whole range of issues that I think would warrant a huge democratic wave in 2018. But it won't happen if people

simply assume that it's going to happen. People have to get out there work and get out there and vote. When you look at 2020, I've heard rumors that you are considering running for president. Is it just one of those situations where... Oh yeah, it's true. I'm seeing about like maybe... About 53% here, you know? I would expect a larger number with this crowd. You know what's funny is, I think people are just used to everyone denying it.

Everyone's like, no, no, no, no, no, I'm... No, no, no, and you are just like, yeah, that's right. Let's do this thing. Yeah, let's do it. Let me ask you, can I tell you, that's a great slogan, Eric Holden, let's do this thing? That's, that's a great slogan. You gotta do that as well. You gotta do that. You gotta do that.. Is like, like, like, like, like, another black man has to come in now. It has, what do you see? Why would you see yourself as somebody

who could potentially run the United States of America? Well, you know, I think, again, I'm thinking about this. I've not committed myself to doing this. Right. Trump makes it look easy, I understand, but carry on. But if I to if I to if I th I th I th I th I were I were I were I were I were I were I th I were I th. I were th. I were th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. tho. thoom. thoom. thoom. that. thate. thoomorrow. thoes. thoes. thoes. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. th. th. th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that. that. thin. the. the. the. the. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. the. the. the. th on a long government career. My time as Attorney General, where I was exposed to a whole range of issues, domestic, foreign policy, national security. I think I'm still a person who's got a great deal of creativity. I believe in this nation.

I believe in the people of this nation. I believe that this nation can be led to bigger and better and greater things. I still have hope for America. Thank you so much for being on the show. Pleasure having you. Eric Hold everybody. The Daily Show with CoverNoa, Ears Edition. Watch the Daily Show weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central and the Comedy Central

Act. Watch full episodes and videos at the Daily Show. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. And subscribe to the daily show on the Comedy Central app. Watch full episodes and videos at the Daily Show.com. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, and subscribe to the Daily Show on YouTube for exclusive content and more. This has been a Comedy Central podcast. Hey, everybody, John Stewart here. I am here to tell you about my new podcast, the weekly show. It's going to be coming out every Thursday. So exciting. You'll be saying to yourself, TGID. Thank God it's

Thursday. We're going to be talking about all the things that hopefully obsess you in the same way that they obsess me. The election. Economics. Earnings calls. What are they talking about on these earnings calls? We're th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. the the the the the. the. the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the they obsess me. The election. Economics. Earnings calls. What are they talking about on these earnings calls? We're going to be talking about ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches. And I know that I listed that fourth, but in importance, it's probably second. I know you have a lot of options as far as podcasts go, but how many of them come out on Thursday? I mean, talk about innovative. Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart,

wherever you get your podcast.