The Daily Show: Ears Edition - ICYMI - Eve L. Ewing on How Racism Shapes American Cities and Schools

Episode Date: December 30, 2019

"Ghosts in the Schoolyard" author Eve L. Ewing explains how a series of school closures on Chicago's South Side in 2013 were rooted in a long history of structural racism.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Please welcome Eve Ewing. Welcome to the show. This is so cool to have you here. Shytown, is that what you shouted? Yeah, that is a nice. Okay, you roll with a posse, this is nice. It's a Chicago thing. It's a Chicago thing. Yeah, yeah. They just shout this everywhere you go. Walking down the street all the time. Okay, that could be very cool and then very distracting. that is nice. Yes. thi the th, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. th, okay. th, okay. th, okay. th, okay. th, okay. th th th th thi, okay. thi, okay. thi, thi, thi. thi thi thi thi thi. thi thi thi thi thi tho to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. th. to th. to th. to th. th. to to th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi thi the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. the. the. the. the. thi to thi thi this everywhere you go. Walking down the street all the time. OK, that could be very cool and then very distracting at other times. Let's get into a story that is painful and yet all too familiar. And funny enough, not just unique to America, but the story speaks about racism and

in schools that are being closed on Chicago's south side. It seems like a problem that many politicians would claim is just a financial issue. You are a teacher, you are somebody who's worked in this institution. What is the problem itself? Well, the problem is that in America, we have two different standards for what kinds of education. to what kinds of education we want to offer young people.

So if you have money, or if you have access to private school or if you live in an affluent suburb, you get access to a certain type of education and if you are poor and you're a person of color, especially if you're black, you get access to a different type of education. And so when policy makers are making decisions about kids, the kinds of schools, the kinds of schools that I write about that people call failing schools, there's a different set of standards. And when you look at those different set set set set set set set set set the standards, the, thia, thii, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the.e.e.e.e. their, their, their, the.e.e. the. thea. the. the. And, to to the. And when you look at those different set of standards, how do they affect the kids? Because when I was reading through the book, there were instances and stories that really go back further in time than you would ever think the problem begins. You'd think, okay, let's just talk about the school. But you argue that you can't just look at the school. You have to look at everything that led up to the school. the and chattel slavery and Jim Crow and redlining and so on and so forth.

And it may seem strange to bring those things up when you're talking about a set of school closures that happened in 2013. But basically the argument I'm trying to make in the book is that in order for us to understand the way schools operate now, we have to understand that history and it's not that it's not that long ago. And so I wrote a book that's about 2013 but it begins in 1916 by talking about the great migration and how black people came to Chicago and I think that that's something that's not just about Chicago that's about the country we live in and that in most places if you look at the history of how the city or the town got to be the the way it is there's there's there's there's there's there's there's the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to to to to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. the to. the the the to. There's racism in the mix. Spoiler alert just because America. Let me ask you this. A lot of people shut down in America as soon as you bring up racism or race, as soon as you say that people are like, oh no, here we are again with racism.

To those who argue that this is less about racism and more just about money, they say, well, Eve, it's not about black or white, it's about rich or poor. How do you respond. to respond. to respond. to respond. to respond. to respond. to respond. to to to to th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to to that. that. that. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the way. As the way. the way. the way. the way. the way. the the the the the the way. the the the way. the the th. to be as soon. toe. toe. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. thea. thea. the. the the How do you respond to that? Well, that's simply not true. And that's the first thing I would say. And that we actually know that segregation breaks down across racial lines both in housing and in schools. So black people, affluent people in this country are more likely to live in low income black neighborhoods than they are to live alongside white affluent people. Low incomeluent people. Low income, white people are more likely to live alongside white affluent people. And because that's the way housing breaks down that has huge implications for the kind of

schools that we have, we also know that we don't actually save money through school closures. And so the kind of budget argument doesn't really stand up. But I think that it is uncomfortable for many people to talk about race and racism. And part of what I also wanted to do with the book is to help people understand that racism is a structural thing. It's not just about what's in your heart or how you feel or how you feel or our interpersonal interactions. It's kind of the air we breathe. It's interesting because there's specifically a section in the book where you break that down and you talk about how so many the the the the their their their their their their... I their their. I their. I their. I their. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's th. I'm th. I'm thi. I'm thi. thi. thi is thi is thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thiism is thiism is is is is is thiism is is is is racism is racism is racism is racism is racism is racism is racism is racism is racism is racism is racism is racism is racism is racism is racism is th. th. th. thi is th. th. th. thi is thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. Race is a thin. throe is a throooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooe. them and they get defensive, they say, I'm not racist, I love these kids, I want them all to succeed. And you argue in the book, you're like, yes, you may not be racist, but the system itself

is a racist system and that is something that is oppressing these kids. Would you argue that that that is where it all begins? Because Chicago is often held up as America's, because, their, their, th....... Chicago, th. C Chicago, th. Cich, th. Ci, th. Ci, th. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi, thi, you, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, you're thi, you thi, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you the book. You the book. You the book. You the book. You the book, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th one way different. But look at what's happening in Chicago. Look at Chicago's crime. Look at Chicago this. Would you argue that it starts at the schools, or is all the schools a byproduct of what Chicago is? I think it's the latter. I think that white supremacy and the history of racism in this country,

I often say it's kind of like the virus, thapapap things are like the cold, they're like the sneeze. So these are the symptoms of a much larger issue. And so the book is about schools, but it's also not really about schools. It's really about the way racism and inequality shape the way we make policy decisions and how that affects kids. Right, and if somebody's out there going, well Eve, you know what, racism's not my issue, why should I care? Well, I don't spend a lot of time trying to convince that person. And I think that there's a percentage of people, I think this goes with a lot of issues we have in our country. There's a percentage of people that are reasonable, thoughtful,

kind people who lack information. And those people, I believe that it's important to provide a high quality education to all kids in the United States and beyond, regardless of where they come from or who they are, I recommend another book to you and wish you the best for a Merry Holiday Season. If you are an asshole, do not read this book. This book is not for assholes, I think that's a great setting point. It says, don't buy my book. It's just like, don't, don't, if you're an asshole, do not buy the book. I think that's a great... Yeah. You know, the

the issues that America faces around its schooling are often, you know, I guess people o'cearned to funding, but where do you think people can begin in, their, their, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi's thi, thi, thi thi thi thi thi, thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi's thi's thi's thin, tho, theeeats, thooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, the, the, th do you think people can begin? Where do you think politicians can begin? And where do you think communities can begin in rehabilitating schools and getting them to the place where there's not the failing schools? I think the first thing is to understand public schools as public goods and that these are all of our schools, regardless of whether you have a child enrolled there or not. This is something that all of a support and this is something that belongs to all of us and so we have to take ownership over that right and the second thing i think is we have a problem with hyper individualism in our country and so people like to focus on what's best for my kid and you know uh... the Obama administration had a policy called race to the top right we're gonna have schools compete against each other and the best school is going to a the the the best a the best a the best a their a their a their a their a their their their their their is a their is a their is a their their is a their their is a their their their their their their their is their is a their their their their is a their is a their is a their is. their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is a their is a their is a their is a their is a their is a their is a their is a their is a their is a their is a their is a their is a their is a their their their their their their tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. their their their their their their their their their their their is. the and we're going to incentivize them to succeed, right? And you can't incentivize away poverty, you can't incentivize away struggle, and these

are the things that kids are coming to school with. And these are the things that, these are the things that are, that public educators face every day. And so I think that if we start seeing those as collective problems and stop focusing on, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, and, and, and, and, thi, and, thi, and, thi, and, thi, and, thi, and, and, and, and, and, thi, and, thi, and, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. And, th. And, th.. And, th. And, th. And, th.. And, th. And, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thi. thin, thi. thi. thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, you know, the special kids that make it out and things like that, but ensuring that every kid has access to a high quality education. That's something we have the means to do. We just don't have a lot of interest or political will do it. Well, I'm hoping the people who do have the interest on the political will read this book. Thank you so much. Thanks, I appreciate you.

Ghosts in the schoolhia. the school the school the January. Remember, if you're an asshole, do not read this book. Keep viewing everybody. The Daily Show with Covernoa, Ears Edition. Watch the Daily Show weeknights at 11. Ten Central on Comedy Central and the Comedy Central app. Watch full episodes and videosto the Daily Show on YouTube for exclusive content and more. This has been a Comedy Central Podcast.

When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes, a second look. Starting September 17th. Wherever you get your podcasts.