The Daily Show: Ears Edition - ICYMI - Jacob Tobia Shares Their Gender Identity Journey in "Sissy"

Episode Date: June 24, 2019

"Sissy" author and gender-nonconforming activist Jacob Tobia describes their "gender-chill" approach to exploring gender identity via humor and a healthy sense of play.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. Finding great candidates to hire can be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. You might get a lot of resumes, but not enough candidates with the right skills or experience. But not with Zip Recruiter. Zip Recruiter finds amazing candidates for you fast. And right now you can try it for free at Zip Recruiter's smart technology identifies top talent for your roles quickly. Immediately after you post your job, Zip Recruiters' powerful matching technology starts showing you qualified people for it, and you can use Zip Recruiter's pre-written invite to apply

message to personally reach out to your favorite candidates and encourage them to apply sooner. Ditch the other hiring sites and let Zip Recruiter find what you're looking for, the needle in the haystack. Four out of five employers who post on Zip Recruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free at this exclusive web address. Zip Recruiter. the scruiter. Sip Recruiter.

The smartest way to hire. John Stewart here. Unbelievably exciting news. My new podcast, The Weekly Show. We're going to be talking about the election, economics, ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches. Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart, wherever you get your podcast. Please welcome Jacob Tobia. Welcome to the show. Hi, I'm very happy to be here. What gets me is you're a hugger and I'm not used to hugging people who are taller than

me. I don't know where to place myself in a taller person hug. It is kind of awkward because you get the arm sandwich moment. Yeah, but I'm, because I'm used to like tall hug, I know how to hug down, and then like, you're the first person I've hugged who's taller than me, and I don't know how to engage in that hug at all. I did have a growth spurt like, you know, 20 minutes ago to be fair. And congratulations on your book. Sissy, A Coming of Gender Story. Let's first talk about the title.

I mean, Sissy would seem like the title that everybody would want to stay away from because that's a derogatory term many people have used to describe people who are queer, gender non-conforming, et cetera, et cetera. And yet in the book you talk about how, through self-love, well, it's funny because in some ways, Sissy was the first word that I had

to even name my difference. You know, I didn't know the word transgender when I was a kid. I didn't even know the word gay. As early as I knew that Sissy is people who were gendered different was a thing. And so the naming it, sississississississississississ, this this this this this this this this this the book the the the story of my gender and really not take any part of it for granted. And so the naming it, Sissy, is about reclaiming my childhood for myself, you know what I mean? And learning to kind of like snatch back the power from people who try to be like, oh, you shouldn't be like that.

And you can just kind of be like, well, I mean, if you think you're going to like tease me with that name, like it's a, and it, and it, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's a, and it's a the the the the the the the the their, and it's, and I, and, and it's, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, their, and, and, their, and, their, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, their, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the, and, the, the, and, the... they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. the they. they. the they. they. And, and, and, and, and, damn book now, so, sorry. Like, oops. One thing I really enjoyed about this book was the way you tackled conversations in and around, being trans, being gay, being gender non-conforming, because we cannot deny that in society. It is a difficult topic to broach because, A, a lot of the time we don't even know where to begin, right? everyone's afraid of stepping on a landmine somewhere And then for some people just makes them uncomfortable because they've been taught certain things growing up Why did you feel like human needs to be part of the conversation? Why do you say that people shouldn't take it as seriously like? Like they should be able to laugh and joke about gender? That seems like a controversial thing? th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thus th. the th. the th. th. the tho tho-a? to to the the the to-a. tha. tha. tha. the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their th. their th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. te. to. to. to. to. to. I to. toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. to. to. to. te. joke about gender. That seems like a controversial thing to say. Right, well, in the process of writing this book, and also in the process of promoting

it, I feel like I've learned a new identity for myself, which I didn't realize was so necessary, but I'm gender chill, y'all. You know what I mean? Like, I don't want to live in, because I don't want to live in, I try and I don't want to to to think, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, like, I, I, and, and, the the future, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the, the the, the, the, the the, the, the, the, the, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to, the to, to, the to, to, the the the to, the the the to, I the to, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the trans folks. Right. What is the future that I want to live in? And the future I want to live in is not some future where like, you know, there's no gender and everyone wears like gray hoodies and sweatshirts and like shaves their head and like whatever. That's not the world I want to live in. I want to live in a world where gender is this playful thing, where there's no patriarchy, no misogyny, none none none none none none none none none none none none none none none none none none, and no the things of the things of the things of the things of the things, and the things, and the things, and thi, and the things, and the things, and the things, and the things, and the things, and the things, and the things, and the things, and the things, and the things, and th. and like, and the things, and the things, and their, and like, and like, and like, and like, and like, and like, and like, and like, and like, and like, and the things, and like, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and th. and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and their, and their, like, their, their, their, their, their, they, their, their, like, their, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, their, the things that make gender great. I wanted to feel like a dress-up bin, you know? And like some kids, you know, don't even play dress-up, but like watch up, like they go, you know, color. And then some children, I don't know who, like, you know, go in the dress-up bin and are like,

how much can I put on my body and still stand up? the book, which I found really interesting. You said, one of the things that you think could help us in society is if people experimented more with their gender, so people going out there and dressing in clothes that they wouldn't normally, you said, for instance, everybody should try on a three-piece suit regardless of their gender, just try it on and see how it feels. Why do you think that the trans movement has done our messaging is the idea that like, oh, cis people have a stable gender. You know, like people who aren't transgender have a gender that's simple. Yes. I'm like, girl, no one has a simple gender.

That's a silly idea. And more importantly, everyone should try out new things. You know, we grow up in a world, or at least most of us grow up in a world where gender possibilities are shut down from the moment we're children. And I think it is everyone's responsibility and everyone's opportunity to explore what else that could look like. Why do you think people are so afraid of it though and so hateful towards it? Because I mean, in my world I've always gone, if somebody's not hurting me or it's not hurting other people, why does it affect you? But there are people who are vehemently opposed to everything that you represent, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, and, and, and, and, and, and, is, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, is, and, is, and, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, thi...a, thi.a, thi.a, thi.A, thi.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A. tha. tha. tha. tha. th th th th th th th thi. thi. thi. thi. thiemently opposed to everything that you represent as a human being. Have you ever engaged with somebody like that and have you ever figured out why people are so against it?

Yeah, I have a lot of empathy actually for people who are really uncomfortable around me or who, you know, you know, just like straight up hate, you know, their tean, someone you know like is violent towards trans folks, I'm just like darling your trauma is showing. You know like the only reason that you would lash out against a trans person is because you've been traumatized on the basis of your gender too. You know that like something about your gender

or went wrong or someone told you that you couldn't thrown you or someone told you that this is how you had to be. And you see someone like me with such freedom, and you don't know how to handle it. To that effect, I brought you a little present. You brought me a little bag. Yes, so I introduced a term. Oh, you brought me a little bag. I got a bag. She always leads a party giving people gift bags.

So back in the, when we checked in in the dressing room, I taught you a term, yes. The term is gender. All right. Which I never heard of that before. Yeah, and it's not like, it's not like, it's not what it sounds like. It's like playing with your gender a lot of the time is they give me headaches But these ones aren't tight I promise you sure good ones no they're a lot of the time they'll like give you headaches

No, they're gentle Yeah, yeah And I don't want to I don't want to like I don't want to like you know, thrown. tho. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho. thrown. tho tho they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. to to to to to to to to to to to to they. they. they. they. they. they. they. th. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. to. try. try. try. try. to. try. try. try. try. to. I don't want to, I don't want to, like, I don't want to, you know, but I just, this is a look. You realize this is a look, right? You know what's interesting for me, to your ideas of gender and how we identify it and what signifies gender around the world is in South Africa and in many African cultures, men will wear earrings like this and to your point, it doesn't, like, th......... th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thin, you, you, you, you, you thin, you thin, you thin, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you this, you th. You, you th. You, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to, to, to, to, to, to th. to know, to know, to know, to know, to know, to know, to know, th. th. thi. thi. thi. th. th. this and it to your point it doesn't like no one be like oh that man is not man or is you get on I'm saying yeah it's funny because like this I'm just like I I look traditional right now I could be like that's what I'm thinking right now like if my grandmother so she'd be like

finally he's connecting with his roots yes thank you so much for being on the show it's a really beautiful book that talks about gender in a really honest and funny way. Sissy is available now. Take him to be everybody. The Daily Show with Covernoa, Ears Edition. Watch the Daily Show Weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central and the Comedy Central and the Comedy Central app. Watch full episodes and videos at the Daily Show.com. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, and subscribe to the Daily Show on YouTube

for exclusive content and more. This has been a Comedy Central Podcast. John Stewart here. Unbelievably exciting news. My new podcast, the Weekly Show. We're gonna be talking about the election, economics, ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches.

Listen to the Weekly Show with John Stewart, wherever you get your podcast.