The Daily Show: Ears Edition - ICYMI - Mary Frances Berry on "History Teaches Us to Resist" and the Power of Protest

Episode Date: June 4, 2020

Historian Mary Frances Berry discusses misconceptions about Martin Luther King Jr., the essential role of protests in politics and her book "History Teaches Us to Resist." Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Welcome to the Daily Show. Well thank you. And before we get into the book, I just wanted to say I honestly have met few people who have lived as much of a life as you have. You mean I'm old? No, some people are old but they haven't lived life. Ah, okay, all right. They really haven't. Because reading through your story truly fascinated me. I mean, you were at the forefront of opposing the war in Vietnam.

You know, you were one of the key individuals who fought for the American government to impose sanctions on the apartheid government in South Africa. You've been fighting for equality in America for a long time. You've been on the front lines and you're a friend of Dr. King's family. If you look at MLK Day today and you look at how people have the biggest misconception people have about Dr. King? The biggest misconception is that Martin Luther King was a dreamer who had a dream. Every time I go someplace, people get up and say, yes, he was a dreamer, he was always dreaming. Well, that's because of the speech and the part that's taken out.

Martin Luther King believed in the right to vote. The first speech he gave in Washington at the prayer of pilgrimage in 1957 is coming out, as it were, in Washington. Was about, if we ever got the vote, everything would change. We'd have justice, if we just got the vote. That was even after a year before, they had done the boycott, the Montgomery boycott.

But over the years as he evolved, he saw, hey, the vote is important and we should get it and he continues to fight for it. But voting by itself isn't going to give us justice. And he concluded that protest is an essential ingredient of politics. You see, politicians want two things. They want you to vote. to to to to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote the vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to vote to essential ingredient of politics. You see, politicians want two things. They want you to vote for them and they want to get elected and they want you to vote for them

so they can get re-elected. Those are two things they want. But the thing you have to want is to make them do what will give you justice and equality in this country and they won't do that unless you make them do it. And that's where a protest is involved. Marlutha King believed in nonviolence. He learned about it, he believed in it, he and Coretta believed in it. It was at the center of their lives.

When I say protest is an essential ingredient of politics, I mean nonviolent protest. And the book is about the kind of nonviolent protests you can engage in, which will make change. It will make government officials who you elected actually do what they promised they would do. Isn't that unique? How interesting that they would actually promise to do something and even try to do it? You know, say it, but that's what, and the other thing the book is about is how every generation has to make its own dent in the wall of injustice. Young people, you know, you have to pass it on. All the movements that I talk about in that book, in which I was involved and at the center of some of th th th th th th th th th th th th to do it to do it th th to do it to do it to do it, you to do it, you to do it, you to do it, you to do it, you to do it, you to do it, you to to to to do it, you, you to do it, you to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to do it, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you know, have to pass it on. All the movements that I talk about in that book,

in which I was involved, and at the center of some of them, it didn't happen overnight. You didn't go out and have one march, or didn't go out and have two marches. We went on for years until we were able to make change. So young people have to pick up the torch and move forward with it and make their own debt. It takes a long time for it to happen.

And Martin Luther King stood for all of that. He didn't live long enough, unfortunately his life was taken. But in the time that he had with us, he modeled all those things for us. There was another thing he modeled, which was you don't have to be perfect in order to be good and to have a good message. You don't have to be personally perfect in order to. What you look at is what people do in the cause and what sacrifices they're willing to make. And that doesn't mean that everybody should go out and die. That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is we worked hard to end the draft and we succeeded.

I can show you, and if if if if if if if if if if if if if if that if th if th if th th th th th th th you th you th you th you th you thi thi thi thi thi thi the the the the tho the their their their their their their their their their their to to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their the draft and we succeeded. I can show you, and if you read what's in the book, you will see that we succeeded when we wanted the Americans with Disabilities Act passed in the Congress. We use strategies and tactics to make it happen. And what you have to do when you protest is keep changing what you do. Don't do the same thing over and over again. People get tired. If you did the same thing on th on thing on thin on thin on thin on thin on thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same thi the same the same tho the same thoes thoes to the same to the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same their their their the do the same thing over and over and over again. People get tired. If you did the same thing on your show every night, people say, ah, and they wouldn't want you. Change it up. Or if you were like the team that played Kansas City yesterday and they just kept on doing the same thing. And I kept saying, why don't you do something different? You see? So that's that's so, so that's, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you want, if you, if you, the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, so that's so, that's really interesting.

So if you want, if you want student loans forgiven so you don't have to pay off all that debt, whatever it is you want, organize people, mobilize people to do it in a non-valent way, put pressure on, you have to make politicians do stuff. Do you think that climate change, make them do it. Do you think then our generation has become complacent in thinking that a moment of giant protest counts as the duration of protest? Because in the book you talk about how, for instance, with the apartheid movement, the anti-aparthe movement, it took two years for you to get the American government to do something. So do you think our generation goes, we th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thook two years for you to get the American government to do something. So do you think our generation goes, we have a big march, it trended on Twitter, and now

we're done, and we think that's enough. Where is it supposed to be an ongoing affair? Twitter, putting something out on Twitter is not a movement. You can inform people through Twitter. It's very useful for that. Also, you can be kept under surveillance, by their, their, their, their, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thii, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, to, to, too. And, too. And, too. And, too. And, too. And, too. And, too. And, too. And, too. And, too. And, too. And, tthat. Also, you can be kept under surveillance by the people watching you. Why are you doing it? But do you have to, what I learned over time, and Martin was an exemplar of that, you have to be present in the moment.

You have to do something yourself. You have to be there. You have to put your body on the line. You have to be willing to go to jail. You have to be willing to say, here I stand and you will go no further because I have moral authority in what I'm doing. So use any kind of media for communication and get in touch and stay in touch, although we used to use memograph machines and get ink all of our fingers and all of that and the rest of it, but you can make change. So the lesson of all this is in this book book, if th, if th, if th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, their, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, the the the the thin, the thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, and thin, and thin, and to thin, to thin, and thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, change. So the lesson of all this is in this book is,

if you read it, if there's a change you want, have made, sure, vote, it's an election year. But don't just vote and then go home and say, all right, I did it. Now, four years from now, I'll come back and do it again. That won't get us anywhere. That won't end end end end end end in this country. If you could organize, yeah. If you could organize a protest today that would last until it got the results that it needed, what would you say is the most pressing issue?

I know there are many but what would you say right now would be the most pressing issue that you think people need to protest for? Climate change. Because climate change affects all of us without regard to race, class, or whatever it is. We may not understand that it does, but it does. So I would do it in a way to try to explain to people, not just the morality of it, but how their lives are in danger and the labs of their children and so on, and find messaging that would help to do that. And the messaging takes time for the anti-part-date movement, the steering committee on that movement which was successful, met every day at my house in the morning for a year and a half and had protesters out every single day going to jail. We all went to jail multiple times. We boycotted it,

Shell Oil Company. We made people stop buying Krugerands when they'd even know what Krugerans were before. We got now help to get Nelson out of jail and oh was that a great day when that happened. And so it takes hard work, it takes thought, it takes using creativity and imagination about how to get the public's attention. We had marches but when we had marches we had celebrities people who folks don't know about Paul Newman you guys never heard of him. He was an actor. People like that who were out there doing it.

So in fact, you can, if I were doing it, I would sit down. And you can, if anybody wants to start, read the book and come to my house. And we'll sit there for another year and a half, going out every day, mobilizing people and figuring out what to do. Sounds like a plan. Thank you so much for being on the show. Wonderful having you, especially today. History teaches us to resist is available now.

Dr. Mary, Francis Berry, everybody. The Daily Show with Cove Noa, Ears Edition. Watch the Daily Show weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central and the Comedy Central app. Watch full episodes and videos at the Daily Show. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram, and subscribe to the Daily Show on YouTube for exclusive content and more. This has been a Comedy Central podcast. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television.

Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change. Like none of treasures in our archives. You're rolling? But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes, a second look on Apple podcasts starting September 17.