The Daily Show: Ears Edition - ICYMI - Salima Koroma on "Dreamland"

Episode Date: May 24, 2021

Filmmaker Salima Koroma discusses "Dreamland," her documentary about the burning of Black Wall Street and the accompanying racist massacre that took place in Tulsa, OK, in 1921. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes, a second look on Apple podcasts starting September 17. Salima Karoma, welcome to the Daily Social Distancing Show. Thank you so much, Trevor for having me on. It's an actual pleasure having you on because you are one of the most exciting documentary filmmakers working today and your new project is bound to get people talking Dreamland the burning of Black Wall Street. I mean this is a story that shockingly very few people in America and around the world actually know about and

when you look at it it seems like one of the most consequential stories in and around black people building black wealth and then having everything taken away from them merely because of the color of their skin. The question I would have first is, why the title, Dreamland, when it's about a massacre that was so painful in America? What a great question, right, when we tell stories about black people in America, a lot of times the stories are, they are dire, they are sad, they are of trauma and poverty

and all the bad things that have happened to us in this country. And that is true, you know, this story about Tulsa, this massacre is a story about something bad that happened to black people here in America, but it's also a story about this place that was a dream, that felt like a dreamland, right? And like for me, like, when I watched, I know this doesn't sound so cliche, but when I watched Black Panther, right, and you see Wakanda, right? You can make jokes about it, but it was the first time I'd seen black people on screen looks and feel so grand.

And feel like, we could have been that. That's what we could be. But it's like, no, Dreamland, we were that. We have been that in America before. So I want to tell the story of the dreamland that was here in the heartland of America. What I love about that title is exactly what you just said, and I think it's a story that doesn't get told enough, you know. One of the narratives that often gets spun in America about black people is, oh, black people don't want to work hard, black people want handouts, black people just

pull yourselves up, you can get over it. But what this story talks to is th, is did exactly that. They overcame all the odds. They built an entire place that was theirs. They made it thrive and I mean the title Black Wall Street told it all. Tell me a little bit about that place. The place that people don't often talk about and what made it so special? It's funny because whenever some, when I was pitching this story, a lot of people said Black Wall Street. So like, there was a trading floor, there was like, it was like, it was like an Azad, right? I'm like, no, it's not Black Wall Street. It's, you know, it is a metaphor for, you know,

it is a metaphor for that. And this place, Greenwood, the reason it existed is because, because we're wee the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th was trake was train, trainat is train, threatheat is trainkneigh is trainkneigh., trainknecatsknecatsknecatsknecatsknecenecenecenecenecenecenecenecenec. th. theathea, th. the, th. th. th. th. the, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thathe was, thathe was, thathe was, thathe. t. t. t. t. t. tree. treen. today is, today is, treen. treen. t. today is treen. today is today is today is tree. this place, Greenwood, the reason it existed is because we're talking about the 1920s, right, this is a booming time in American history. There's an oil boom in Oklahoma and Tulsa. And what happens is at the same time, black people are not allowed to go into, you know, white, patrons in white businesses. Right, right. Right.

And so black people at this time in Greenwood in Tulsa, they had to create their own. So something that is almost this, you know, you're segregated from going to these places, but then you also have to create your own. They almost forced to create their own thing. Forced to create this utopia. A a a a a a a a a thoe a thoe a thoe a thoe a lotterterterter. A lotter. A lotter. A lotter. A lotter. A lotter. A lotter. A lotter. A lotter. A lotter. A lotter. A lotter. A lotter. A lot. A lot. A lot. A th. A thi. A lot. A th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. A, th. A, th. A, th. A, th. A. A th. A th. A th. A to, toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toea. toea. toea. toea. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. to create their own thing. It forced to create this utopia. A lot of people, when they hear about Tulsa, the massacre, it happened 100 years ago.

And they say, okay, this thing happened a hundred years ago. It was an event, and it, then it ended, and now it's all done. What I would love people to understand is that a hundred years, you know, that hundred years, it's still happening. It's, it's, it's, the massacre, the massacre, it's their, their, their, their, their, thi. thi. It's still, thi. It's still, thi, thi, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, their, it's, it's, it's, it's, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the, you know, that hundred years, it's still happening. The massacre is still happening through gentrification, through urban renewal, what they call urban removal, meaning taking people out of their homes and, you know, building school or building universities or, you know, really taking people out of their homes. So, this is not a story of 1921, 1921, 1921. What I, what I appreciate about the telling of the story is how thea, tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha, tha, tha, thea, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thri, thri, thriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii, thri, th 2021. What I appreciate about the telling of this story is how it touches on the idea of the compound effects of anything. You know, oftentimes people will talk about, you know, injustice or massacres or or anything that was done to a group of people and they'd be like, that was so long ago, get over it, blah, but they say it as if they don't understand the compound interest of trauma and pain, when they do understand the compound interest of actual money.

That's what you toubendon in this documentary is how you take from somebody yesterday, it'll infect, it'll affect them not just that day, but today and today and tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow, and to tomorrow, and to tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow, and for tomorrow, and for tomorrow, and for tomorrow, and for tomorrow, and for tomorrow, and for tomorrow, and for tomorrow, and for tomorrow, and for tomorrow, and for tomorrow, and for to mo moa, and for many, and for many, and for many, and for many, and for many, and for many, and for many tomorrow, and for many, and for many, and for, and for, and for, and for, and for, and for, and for, and for, and for, and for, and for, and for, and for, and for, and for, and for, and for, and for, and for, and for, and for many, and for many, and for many, and for many, and for many, and for many, and for many, for many, for many, for many, for many, for many, for many, for many, for many, for many, for many, for many, for many, for many, for many tomorrow, for many tomorrow, for many tomorrow, for many tomorrow, for many tomorrow, for many, for many, for many, for many, for many, for many, for many, for many, for many, for many, for many, for many, for many, and for many, and for, for, for, for, for and for many tomorrows because that wealth is generational. Absolutely, it's generational wealth. I was talking about this oil boom that happened in the 1920s. Like people are still eating off that oil. Families are still eating off that oil. And so the fact that this black community was wiped out, all this wealth, all the stuff that was lost. I'm not even, it's not even just wealth. It's family photos. It's history. It's knowing of oneself, right? It's completely just obliterated. And so the trauma still persists today.

And you know, you can make as many, you can put as many memorials out, you know, do commemorations. But to be real, going down there, people want their their their their their they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, know, do commemorations, but to be real, going down there, people want cold, hard reparations, you know, like, they, I mean, money is what's going to help. There are still three survivors who are in Tulsa, a hundred and six years old, a hundred and seven years. Wow. Who, you know, never saw anything, never saw, barely saw sorry, right? And so I think it's time for us to not just be telling these stories, but actually doing

something that's tangible for these people and for these communities. What's really amazing about the stories, as you said earlier, you were pitching it to people and you went around trying to find somebody to help you make the project. Your teammates now are none other than LeBron James and Mav Carter, a powerhouse team. Why did you choose them and why did you think, you know what, these are the perfect people to make this story with? Trevor, you think I chose them. You did choose them them them them them them did choose them. You pitched to them. So you chose them. Trevor. Nobody wanted. I pitched this many years ago. It wasn't the first time that I pitched

this story. And the years ago, no one wanted to do it because it felt too scary. I think that's what I I think it felt too scary. It didn't feel real. So I gave up on it for a few years. And then, I don't know, last year I said, you know what, I'm gonna do this. Like, I'm gonna do this. I talked to all the people I needed to talk to. And I literally, I think it sent it out to Spring Hill, and maybe in a matter of days, they came back and we're like, let's do thrown, we're like, we're like, we're like, we're like, we're like, we're like, we're, we're, we're, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, to.... to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to, to, to, to, to, know, but I'm happy that they wanted to do it. Like they were the first ones who wanted to do it. So that's dope. Thank you, LeBron. Thank you,

thank you, Maverick. Wow, Lebron with another assist. He never stops. I really hope people watch the story. And I hope you make many, many more documentaries. Congratulations on your journey. Thank you so much. Watch the Daily Show, weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central, and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount Plus. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives.

But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes, a second look. Starting September 17, wherever you get your podcasts.