The Daily Show: Ears Edition - ICYMI - Soledad O'Brien on "Matter of Fact" and Critiquing the Media

Episode Date: November 9, 2020

"Matter of Fact" host Soledad O'Brien talks about what the news media has gotten wrong in its election coverage, the problem with access journalism and her podcast "Very Opinionated." Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. You're rolling. But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes, a second look,

starting September 17th, wherever you get your podcasts. So, Loddard O'Brien, welcome to the Daily Social Distancing Show. Thank you, thanks for having me. You're one of my favorite people to talk to about this topic in particular because you've worked in TV journalism, TV news for what, three decades now, everybody from CNN to MSNBC etc. You've also been very critical of how the media has handled not just the election but news in general. Let's start with the election and talk about that. What do you think the news and the media have gotten wrong in covering the election?

I think it's always a mistake to platform lies. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi. thi. the mistake thi. thi. thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, what thi, what thi, what thi, what thi, what thi, what thi, what thi, what thi, what thi, what the, what the, what thi, what thi, what thi, what thi, what thi, what thi, what thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, theeeean. Wea. We'' theateateateateeateeeateeeateeeeeeateeeeeateeeeeean, thi, thi, the news and the media have gotten wrong in covering the election? I think it's always a mistake to platform lies, and I think the mistake that's been made is to uncritically quote or tweak, quote, the president who is lying. We know he's lying. We count, actually, the thousands of lies that he, you know, tweets and says every single day. And so to just quote the president, the, thape, thapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapse thi the president thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's thi. thi. thi. the mistake. the theateat. the mistake. theateat. theat. that's that's that's that's been that's that we all agree, all know is a lie, is a huge mistake. And that continued on during the election and for the past four years. So that's been terrible. But I think post-election has gotten better, post-election day. Let's talk a little bit about that because America is in a tough place, right? It's an interesting country because there is the idea that it's not a monarchy. Right, they say this is a society, it's a

democracy, the president, as a civil servant, just like every other one. But then there's also a certain reverence, it's the president, this is the president. And so even though Donald Trump is lying, the president is speaking. And so you can feel journalists have thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii th a thi, it thi, it thi, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it's thi, it's thi, it's thi, it's thi, it's that thi, it's th. th. th. th. th. th. th, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi. thi. thi, the president is speaking. And so you can feel journalists have this thing where they go, the president told me that my mother is responsible for the stolen votes, and I asked my mom and she did not agree, but that's what the president said. Like, how do you think the media has to figure out

how to navigate that relationship? Because a lot of them don't want to seem to seem to seem to seem to seem to seem to seem to seem to seem to seem to seem to seem to seem to seem to seem to seem to seem to seem to seem to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the to be., that., that., that., too. tooomorrow. to me. to. to. to. to. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to.oomorrow.oomorrow.oomorrow.oomorrow. tooomorrow. tooomorrow. tooomorrow. tooomorrow. tooomorrow.oomorrow. tooea. tooea. tooea. tooe. to seem disrespectful of the president, but at the same time, because he's now the president, he can just lie and then the media has to say what his lie was. Yeah, there's been a reverence for the office, right? Even though the person in the office wasn't particularly reverent himself or deserving of the reverence. And I think it's one of the reasons that we saw, oh my gosh, the New, the New, the New, the New, the New, the New, the New, the New, the New, the, the, the, the, thue, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, is, is, is th, is th, is, is th, is th, is th, is th, is th, is th, is th, is th, is is th, is th, is th. th. So, is th. So, is thi, is thi, is thi, is thi, is thi, is the the the the thi, is the the the the thi, is thi, is the thin, is the theeean, is the the the thean, is the the thean, is the thean, is the. And, is the. And to call the president lies, lies. I'm going to take full credit for that. I'm going to take credit for that. It took something like three years, but things that were lies were lies and they wouldn't want to say.

Or things that were racist, just saying this is racist. The statement is racist. And I do believe it's because of that very thing. There's a sense that whether you like the guy or hate the guy, the office itself deserves a certain reverence. And so I think that really did slow the media down. Plus, I would argue, when you want to have access, you have a president who's reading everything you're writing, and everything you're tweeting, you have to be very careful about how you frame things, or there's a good chance th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, thi, and so I thi, and so I thi, and so I thi, and so I thi, and so I thi, and so thi, and so thi, and thi, and th. thi, and th. th. thi, and th. th. th. thi, th. thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi. thin, I thin, I thin, I thin, I thin, I thin, I theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. thi. thi. the, things or there's a good chance you're not going to get access, frankly. Yeah, but that's something I find strange about American journalism, for the most parts. Like, I live in a country where you didn't have access.

That's just how it worked. You know, I've lived in countries around the world where it's like, you don't have, access is not what journalists have. Access, find the things th things th things th things th things th things th things th th th th th th th th th th thin thin thin thin thin thin thin, thin,. I mean, you know, American journalists, they've had access to so many things. They had access to the lies about Vietnam. That was the access. So I wonder sometimes, like, why are American journalists

so obsessed with access when that access? When that access could be misinformation. It should be journalism, shouldn't it? Yeah, I think there's a quid pro quo that comes with access, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, and, th. th. th. th. th. th. So. So. So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so. So, so. So, so. So, so. So, so. So, so. So, so. So, so. So, so. So, so. So, so. So, so. So, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the. the, the, the, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th And that is either you're going to slide something nice about me and your next article or your next column, you're going to quote me, or you're, you know, it's a, I scratch your back, you scratch my back, I get some interesting breaking news and then you get to feed off of that for a while. You know what you're seeing right now, right?

The pundits have gone away. No one the p the p. the p. the p. the p. the p. the p. their their their their their their their, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that is, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you's, you's, you's, you's, you's, you's, you's, you's, you's, you. I. It's, you. It's, I. It's, I's, I's, I's, you're, you're, you're, you're, you know, you're, you know, you're, you're, you know, you're, you know, I's, you know, I'm, you're, you know, I'm, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, failed congressmen on TV, we don't need them. You know what they're doing? TV news organizations are camped out, talking to the head of elections in Marico Patel, right? That is journalism, that is reporting, that is not access, someone calling you up, you scratch my back, I scratch yours. It's just doing the work. And I would argue most journalists are not going to write a book about their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their, their, the work. And I would argue most journalists are not access journalists. They're not going to write a book about their time at the White House. They're not going to tell you funny stories about hanging out with John Boehner. They go every day and go into communities and try to figure out what the accurate story is.

And sometimes they get it right. Sometimes mistakes are made. And I think most journalists do a really good job, but when you're going for access I do think it's kind of screws up your perspective and yeah you don't need access to do good reporting you really don't. It's interesting that you bring that up because it feels like when people talk about the media what we often mean especially in America is cable news. I mean for the most parts you know because you are completely correct. If you read your news, you find there's amazing journalists who break most of the stories that inform how we even see the world. But when it comes to cable news, pundits seem to be more important than facts.

Like, you know, you just bring people on. You're just going to be like, I'm just going to bring on this one person to say why Latinos like Trump. And then I'm going to bring on another person to say why Latinoses the their Latinos thino thino thino thino thino thino thino tuning into the news. That's a great formula for creating conflicts for the screen, but it doesn't really inform people. It's just people's opinions and pundits just trying to guess something. And then by the way, if they get it wrong, there's no ramification. They can just be like, oh yeah, this is why I was wrong. Yeah and also I think you're the important piece you're missing is it's cheap it's cheap you pay all those people they are on every show they rotate through you've seen the nine person set right

it doesn't cost any money you know it's expensive going into the field with a crew for the next three days and shooting and doing interviews and then writing your story that costs a and editing your story, that costs a lot of money. And actually, you can hire a guy or two for that same cost, right? And they'll be on your set for the next year. That contributor contract is for every show that they want to be on over the next year. It's a sunk cost, it's very easy and it costs you no money. And then you also have this built in a thin in thinininininininininin in thi in thi in thi in thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, that, to thi, tho, and too, too, to to to to to to to to to to to to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, and, and, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to shoot, to shoot, thi, the the thi, and shooting, the the the the the.. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thea.e.e.e. the too, too, too,, and it costs you no money. Yeah, and then you also have this built-in sense of urgency and sense of drama that I think everybody feels every story needs that actually takes some work

when you're going to do it in a tape spot. So I truly believe a big factor in that is just cost, it's just money. You've been someone who's been critical of the media for a while, especially like, and not broadly. Obviously, you know, you've given props where props are due, but you have pointed out the shortcomings. When you look at the news, especially cable news, we have to acknowledge that there is, there is like a certain price to pay for like neutrality, for instance. Like, cable news likes to bring people on to go, like, this person believes that black people are human beings, but this person doesn't agree. Let's talk to them and see why they say that.

This neutrality on the surface seems to be about impartiality, but really what it creates is a world where there is no fact, there is nothing we agree on. It's all up for discussion. again that. it's great for ratings, but it's not good for informing people. How do you think news networks can find that balance? Because at the end of the day, they're businesses now, but they're also claiming to inform people. Is there a balance that can be achieved? Yeah, absolutely.

I actually think people really want context. I think it's one of the reasons that podcasts are so successful now. People want to understand. So wait, walk me through the history a little bit and who are these people and what's their point of view exactly right? They want to hear the well-told story rolled out and explained versus this guy, Rick Santorum, who's going to make up something because he's not an expert in it a lot except for being a failed congressman, versus pick your other on the other side. And I think this death of expertise is really problematic. When we started doing our, we do a show about policy called Matter of Fact, we're not live.

I was like, oh my God, what are we going to do? The president is tweeting every morning and we pre-taped our show on a Thursday for Sunday. So we decided we would lean in very hard to context. What what what what very hard to context. What is the First Amendment? What does it, what is gerrymandering mean and where did it come from? How is it possible that you can live on an income, a minimum wage income and not be able to afford a two-bedroom apartment?

And because of that, we actually very rarely talk politics. We talk about policy. We talk about people. I have no idea if they're Republicans, if they're Democrats, if they're independents, if they vote, they tell us what's happening in their lives, and we talk about the policy. And because it's not framed as this versus this, I think it's a much more interesting conversation. And it does really well. We do better than most of the election is called and if Joe Biden becomes president, then at some point he will be taking office,

at some point he will move into the White House, which means at some point Donald Trump will no longer be president of the United States. If that were to happen, what would your advice be to newsrooms? Because I strongly suspect that they're going to try to keep covering Trump despite the fact that he's no longer in office. They're going to be like, what the the the the the the fact that he's no longer in office, they're going to be like, what did he say today? Former President Trump said that burritos are part of the problem. What would your advice be to news networks post-Donnell Trump and people who are watching the news post-Done Trump? All that will matter is does his comments, do his comments bring ratings?

And I'm going to argue they don't the poor food, Fox news, to, to, too, th....... And, th. And, th. And, th. And, too, too, th. And, to argue they don't. You can see the poor Fox News anchors, right? When he's been on the phone with them for 30 minutes they're like, well, Mr. President, I know you're very busy, Mr. President, I know you've got to go, Mr. President, and then he won't get off the phone. So, you know, I think if they to find that there are not ratings there to be had. That actually he's not great ratings. He's not ratings gold. He was ratings gold when he was, wow, wacky over the top, who knows what he's going to do. But the song and dance is getting very, very old. Everybody understands it. And it's kind of rambly, old grandpa, uncle, who's drunk to know things getting to. It's a kind of person you're like, okay, nice to see you. And then you move seven seats away. Yes.

You don't want to be part of that. And I think that he's falling into that category. And I can tell you only by watching, I feel sorry, which I rarely do for the Fox News anchors, but I feel sorry for them as their, as their, as their, as their, as the, as the, as the, as the, as the, as the, as the, as th, as to, as to, as to, is, is, is, is, is, and thi, and to, and to, and to, and to, and to be thi, and toe, and to me, and tho, and tho, and thi, thi, to me, and to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to, and to, and to, and to, and to, and to, and to, and to, and to, and to, is, is............. to be to be to be to be toe, is a, is a too, is a too, too, too, too, too, too, too, tooomorrow, tooomorrow, too, tooomorrow, too, too, too, too, too,, I can tell you this. I am glad that you have a show. I am glad that you have a podcast because, as you say, people are enjoying the context and I appreciate the context that you bring. Thank you so much for joining us on the show and I hope to see you again. Thanks. 10 Central on Comedy Central and the Comedy Central app. Watch full episodes and videos at the Daily Show.com.

Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram and subscribe to the Daily Show on YouTube for exclusive content and more. This has been a Comedy Central podcast. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible.

I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes a second look on Apple podcasts starting September 17th.