The Daily Show: Ears Edition - ICYMI - Ta-Nehisi Coates Discusses "We Were Eight Years in Power" and Why Obama Was Different

Episode Date: July 4, 2020

Ta-Nehisi Coates talks about his book of Atlantic essays "We Were Eight Years in Power" and weighs in on going from Barack Obama to Donald Trump inside the White House. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. You're rolling? But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listened to 60 Minutes, a second- the the the the the the the the the the th-1 1, th-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-S-1-1-S-1-S-1-1-1-1-S-S-1-1-S-1-1-S-S-S-S-19-19-19-19-19-19se-1cene, th-19se-19se- thi- thi- thi- thi- thi- thi- thi- thi-19cene. There thi-19. There thine. thine thine thine thine thine thine thine thine thine thine th. th-1. th-1. th-1 th-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1c-1c-19i-19i-ma-ma-ma-ma-ma-ma-sea-sea-ffea-sea-sea-19ia-19. There's thi-1c of this stuff gets looked at, that's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News, listened to 60 Minutes a second look on Apple podcasts starting September 17. My guest tonight is a national correspondent for the Atlantic and a New York Times

best-selling author whose latest book is called We Were Eight Years in Power, An American Tragedy. Please welcome, Tanahasi Coates. Welcome back to have you, man. This is fun. Before we get into the book, there's a story that came out of the book that I, like a side of you that I didn't really know about, a piece of you that I went back and read on, and that was Tanahasi, the blogger. You know, you blogged a lot. You speak in the book about this is where you forgeded your your your your your your your your your th that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that is the book. the book. the book. the book. the book. the book. the book. they. they. they. they. they. I was. they. they. that's. that's. that's. way. Yeah. Do you sometimes miss that Tanahasi, where you could say whatever you want, you know, there wasn't the scrutiny on you, you were just spitting your ideas out there? All the time.

Yeah, I mean, I, you know what happened last year, I got, I was doing the today, you know what happened last year, I got asked who I was voting for and I said I was voting for Bernie Sanders and a New York Times report called me after that. Right. And it was clear I like I couldn't talk in the same way anymore. Like I just didn't have like the ability. I had to you know very much weigh, you know how I, because in my mind it's just me talking. It's just the guy from West Baltimore talking. He might know he might know or he might not he he he he he he he th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. I might not thi. I might not thi. I might not thi. I might not tho. I might not thi. I might not thi. I might tho. I might tho. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I was was th. I was the the the the the the the th. I was was was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was thin. I was thin. I thin. I'm thin. I'm t. I'm toda. I'm toda. I'm today. I'm toda. I'm toda. I'm toda. I'm today. I'm today. I'm today. I'm t might not know. But then I realize that people don't necessarily see it that way? Well, yeah, it's funny you say that, because people see you as knowing. Everything you put down on a page,

they see as you knowing. But in this book, what you've done is you've gone back and you've said, I didn't know, and I would have known, which is an interesting way to go back and look at your life and look at eight years in power. The book is really looking at Obama's tenure. Right, right. Looking at that time. Am I correct in saying that this is a pessimistic outlook on what that out years, on what those eight years meant?

I don't know, it's an odd thing. I'm a journalist. I mean, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I that, I, I, I, I, I, I, I that, I, I that, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I don't, I, I, I don't, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I don't, that, that, I, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, you know, it's an odd thing. You know, I'm a journalist. Like that's, I mean, I know people don't see that anymore, but you know, my editors never say, you know, well, town or haci, you know, when I tell him, go, right? Is this going to be optimistic or pessimistic? So it's hard for me to answer that as a practitioner, you know, as a practitioner, it is what it was, if that makes any sort of sense. That's, like from the aspect of actually creating the thing. Yes. I don't think, wow, this is going to be a really depressing story, but while this is going to make people feel great, you know? It's not really in my mind.

I'm trying to get answers. Right. And if those answers tend to be depressing, then I think that's because of previous stories that maybe we've told ourselves about the world. That's interesting because I've seen a few white people who have said, Tanahasi, how can you condemn this country? You know, they go like, Tanahasi, I mean, I hear what you're saying, and I mean, you're right about the slavery and you write about the Jim Crow and you write about, you know, mass incarceration, but really is it that bad? I mean, in my mind, I don't see myself

condemning the country, right? Like, I think what it is, is if you believe in the American exceptionalist myth, you say America is somehow higher than all other countries, that it's touched by God, that it really is, you know, as we talked about, that city on the hill, then yes, I'm condemning it. Yes, I mean, but if you believe is, I believe that it's a society, as a country established by humans with all the beautiful things and all the flaws that come from being a human

being, then no, it's just a story. It's just a story. Right. Would you, like, what if, what, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, what, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, what, like, what, the. the, the, the, the, the, what, the, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what is, what is, what is, the... the went? America is exceptional in the same way, Superman is exceptional. But then there is the Clark Kent side of Superman. You know, the flaws, the cracks in the facade. Can you be exceptional? It's more like Superman and Alexa Luther side. Like if they were the same person.

No, it's much more like that. Right. I don't know. I think there's a heavy missionary impulse. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm, I'm. It's, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm. It's, I'm, the. It's, the. It's, the. It's, the. It's, the. It's, the the flaws. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. The. I, I, I, I the. I the. I the.. I the. the. the......................... I, I, I, I the heavy missionary impulse that is buried in the American psyche. And maybe it's buried in the psyche of all people like where they want to believe their country is somehow distinctly more moral or more just than all other societies and countries before. I don't see myself necessarily as saying anything that's, you know, sort of out there. But I think it does attack that idea. It's just somehow, you know that, you know, sort of out there, but I think it does attack that idea, that just somehow, you know, particular special, different, exceptional. You take us through each year of the Obama presidency, and it's interesting how the book starts from a place of hope, excitement. You know, you talk about how you went with your partner, you bought food, you were choosing. Yeah, oh, black times, it was like, oh, black timesi. Yeah, times, times, the, times, the, times, thi. Yeah, thi. Yeah, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, that, that, that, that, that, you, you that, you're like, you're like, you that, you, you, you're like, you're like, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you that, you that, you that, you th. It, you th. It, you th. It's, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you. Yeah, you. Yeah, you. Yeah, you're, you're like, you're like, you know, you know, th. th. that's like, you know, you're like, you're like, you know, th. that's like, you know, you're like, that's like, th. Yeah, you're like,'m paraphrasing, paraphrasing. That's what I felt, Black Times.

And yeah, and then as the presidency unfolds, we go through this journey with you, that's really powerful because you take us to a place where in many ways you argue that Obama's presidency and black leadership in any way, shape or form, is in some way contributing to white supremacy, which is a very complicated argument. What do you mean when you say that? I wouldn't quite put it. I would say, it's not, you know, like I don't think Obama did anything but be a human being and, you know, going to the office and just happen to be somebody to check black

on the sentence form. It's the reaction to the reaction, the reaction, the the the to be someone someone someone someone someone someone someone someone someone someone someone someone someone someone someone someone someone someone someone someone someone someone someone someone someone someone to be someone to be someone someone to be someone to be someone someone someone to be somebody somebody to be some somebody somebody somebody somebody somebody somebody somebody somebody somebody somebody somebody somebody somebody somebody somebody somebody somebody, to be some some some some some some some some some some some some somethe ordinariness, to the bourgeoisness, to the middle classness of, you know, normal everyday black people and how well that accords with what this country claims of value. That's always a threat because it automatically undermines the suppositions of white supremacy, which says that black people, you know, don't take care of their kids, black people, you know, are, you know, always, you know, killing each other and then up in jail. Like, there's a kind of moral judgment that can always be made on black people. This goes back to, you know, justifications to slavery. And black folks who present themselves, you know, in a particular way as undermined that the, you know, it's th. And, th. And, th. And, their, their, th. And, th. And, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, their, their, like, like, their, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, their. And, their. And, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, you. And, you. And, you. And, you know, like, like, like, to the thinking about white superiors i think that's why folks were so offended by obama you like they couldn't grasp that he was actually black and so they became this whole other

mythology that sprung up around them most you know specifically in this birtherism thing somehow he's not legit he could not be from here because he's not the black that we believe black to be exactly and there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's not there's not their is their is their is not their is not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's he's not he's he's he's he's he's he's he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not he's not the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the that they actually want. That's the archetype of what that is, but that he would be black and be human and all the, again, not exceptional, all the normal ways of a human being. Kiss your wife, love your wife, got a dog, you know, two kids just normal human every day. you know, too, too thau-ande. to th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that that that that that's, that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that is, but that is, but that is that is that is that is that is that is just, that is just, th. thiiii. thi. thi. thr-a, thr-a, thr-a, their thr-a, their thr-a, thr-a, thr-auu. thr-au. that that that that that that that to the birtherism, you know, all the sort of weird conspiracy theories that, you know, sprung up around them. When you talk about the backlash that many people have tried to dissect, looking at the election, one of your arguments is in many ways Trump was a backlash to Obama.

Right. Now, I understand the argument, but I go, was this a backlash to Obama or was it a backlash the establishment the establishment the establishment the establishment the establishment the establishment the establishment the establishment the establishment the establishment the establishment the establishment the the the the the the the the the the the the argument, but I go, was, was this a backlash to Obama or was it a backlash to the establishment, to Hillary Clinton, to more of the same? Because I mean, Mitt Romney and Donald Trump had the same amount of votes, you know, Hillary Clinton is the person who had fewer votes. And so it feels like it was less the people rallying around Trump in the national election, more people rallying around Trump in the national election, more people rallying around him in the Republican nomination. Do you feel that, like, does it have to be a backlash?

Do you think it was a backlash? Yeah, it definitely was. I mean, you're right, it was a reaction. I think it was to someone said a reaction to Hillary. the fact of having the possibility of a woman president. I think that was definitely there. But I've heard people who make this arguing about Mitt Romney and Trump all the time, as though Mitt Romney and Trump are equal. Mitt Romney had been governor, he had run for president before.

He was a very, very practiced politician. The fact that Trump, who had no experience at all in politics, who said all sorts of outrageous things who was caught on tape bragging about sexual harassment was even in spitting distance of Mitt Romney shows you how much the bar was lowered. So the fact that you know they somehow that doesn't prove much to me if if he were if him and Obama were being judged by the same standards he wouldn't even have been in a race. It's the lowered bar that I think attest to the fact, you know, of backlash. When you look at the complicated relationship between white supremacy and misogyny, that's like a very complicated space to

be in, you know, where you go, white supremacy and the oppression of women have been tied together in ways that I even struggled to comprehend. How does that play have you even taken the time time time time time time time time time time time ti ti tha tha tha to to to to the to the the to to the the the to the the the to the the the the to the to the to the to to the the the the to to beaqq. tooes. tooes. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tha.a. thoea. thea. Ia. thea.a. thea.a. Ia. Ia.a.a.a. Ia.a.a. Ia.a.a. Ia. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm th. I'm th. even struggle to comprehend. How does that play? Have you even taken the time to read through that? Because I know you don't, you know, you're not a journalist of everything. There are better people than me that can address that. But I think, you know, one of the notions that, you know, is always there is the fact that having a black president, like that was a fundamental shift. I mean, I that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that was, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that was, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that was, that was, that was, that was, that was, that was, that was, that was, that was, that was, thiiii. I was, they. I was, they. I was, they. I was, thi. I was, thi.I's, th.I's, you know, th.I's, you know, th.I'm, you know, th.I's, you know, you know, you're, you're th.I's, you're th.I's, you're, you're a line of white dudes, you know, before him. And then you were going to immediately follow that up with a woman. You know, I think, you know, it was almost unfortunate that Hillary Clinton had to run after that had been a black president. I mean, you're talking about, you know, just, two big, big, you know, moments of just huge, huge change, I think.

Before I let you go, one last question, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, the idea, the idea, the idea we were eight years in power, you draw in the book many parallels between a time when black people were ruling, the backlash that came afterwards, and Obama's rule in the backlash that came afterwards. One thing you also do in the book, and I don't know if it's coincidental or not, is you also draw parallels in the response to that you have the civil rights movement that comes afterwards. Do you think that in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi thi thi the the the thi thi the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thea thea thea thea thea.eauuiauia theauia thea thea thea.eauiauia thea thea thea the to that backlash. You have the civil rights movement that comes afterwards. Do you think that in some ways Donald Trump's presidency will be the slingshot that propels America even further forward?

Is there a possibility that now you will have more people engaged in politics? You will have more women who are running for office, you will have more men who are accountable for sexual harassment? Do you think there's a possibility? Yeah, there there there there there there there there there there there there there there's a possibility there's a possibility there's a possibility there's a possibility, th th is a possibility, th is a possibility, th also could could could could tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho, tho, thi, thi, thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom. tho, tho, tho, tho, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. too. too. tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. too. too. thi. sexual harassment. Do you think there's a possibility? Yeah, there's a possibility. It also could be the trap door that plumets us into the abyss, so. One or the other. One or the other. I'm not saying, you know, all of you.

One or the other, though. I hope when I'm on my death bed. I'm just having fun now. Now I'm just having fun. No man, thank you so much for being here. Always, man. Always a pleasure. Viewer Atoms and Power is available now. It's fascinating.

You want to read this book. Tenhouse and hoats the coats to everybody. The Daily Show with Trevor No. Ears Edition. Watch the Daily Show. to. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha.. Watch full episodes and videos at the Daily Show.com. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram and subscribe to the Daily Show on YouTube for exclusive content and more. This has been a Comedy Central podcast. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives.

But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes, a second look, starting September 17th, wherever you get your podcasts.