The Daily Show: Ears Edition - ICYMI - Tarana Burke and Brene Brown on "You Are Your Best Thing"

Episode Date: May 3, 2021

Me Too movement founder Tarana Burke and Dr. Brene Brown discuss "You Are Your Best Thing," their collection of essays about trauma, vulnerability and the Black experience. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Toronto Burke, Dr. Brunay Brown, welcome to the Daily Social Distancing Show. Thank you. Thank you for having. It is very seldom that I have two guests simultaneously on the show. It is also very rare that I have two guests who I hold in such high regard at the same time on the show. Tarana Burke, many people are familiar with you as the founder of the Me Too movement and time person of the year. Dr. Brunne Brown, many people are familiar with your work through your podcasts or one of your five New York Times bestsellers where you talk about everything trauma related, childhood related, life related. So thank you both of you for joining me on the show because you've come here with a really interesting project where you've worked together to compile an anthology,

a collection of essays that gives us insights into trauma and how it affects people throughout their lives, specifically black people living in the present day th, and th, and th. th, and th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. And th. And their, th. And th. th. t. t. t. today, tttttttoday, tha. tha. thea, thea, tha. tha. thea, tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the.. the... And, the, t. And, t. And, t. And, t. And, t. And, the, the, the, ttttttttttttttttr. And, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, tr. And, tr. And, tr us insights into trauma and how it affects people throughout their lives, specifically black people living in the present day. And before we get to that, can I just say congratulations on proving something that a lot of people don't realize you can do in America, and that is, have a born and bread New Yorker, work with a proud Texan. I didn't know that was possible. Congratulations, ladies. That was the biggest hurdle of them all. Exactly. So talk me through this.

How did this even come to be? Like, how do you begin a journey where you say, you know what, we're going to get together, combine our shared experiences as people, and create a book that is going to help people to deal with the traumas that they might not even know that they've had hadto deal with in life? Well, start to vulnerability, right? I had to be vulnerable enough to reach out to Brunet, who I called a friend, and really during a tough time last summer when we were dealing with George Floyd and Brianna Taylor

and all the uprisings, and I kept feeling away about the fact that black people kept being called on for their expertise and teach us how to be anti-racist and teach us how to be different. But nobody was creating spaces for people to human to respond to what was happening, to go through the cycles of the kind of trauma brings to you. And it felt like we needed a soft place to have, like we needed a place to have, to talk about how we were affected by it. You know, on your side, Dr. Brown or Brunay as you'd like to be called, you come from this, from this world where you've spent so many years researching the human condition. You know how we react to things that have happened to us, our entire lives, how we respond to that, how we change, how we react to other people. On your side, as a doctor, what is trauma? You know, I think of trauma as a truck bumping me or going to war or something. When you say everyone has

trauma or it might have trauma, what does that actually mean? I think it's a really important premise for this book because I really study mostly vulnerability, shame, and courage. And so one of the things that I've learned is that the greatest casualty of trauma is the willingness or ability to be vulnerable. And so when I work with vets or I work with other folks that are allowed for me to be vulnerable, of course I can't take the armor off because I've seen this and I've done this. But what people don't realize is that white supremacy is trauma. Systemic poverty is trauma. And so what we end up doing is we end up saying, look, hey, you need to be more vulnerable, you need to take the armor off. But, PS, you're not safe doing that. And so that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they, they. they, to, to, they. they. to, to, to, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, true. true. true. tomo. tomorrow, tha, tha. too. their, their, their, their, when we say to people, especially people who have to deal with racism every day, be vulnerable,

it's not the same ask as when one says to me, take the armor off, you're self-protecting. Well, yeah, right, right, right. Maybe my ego, maybe, you know, but my life is not on the line. So I think Toronto said, let's, let's dig in right there. Toronto, from your side, what I've always enjoyed about your work is that you've dug into the specificity of what people are going through. You know, not going broad, but actually going, okay, if it's me too, what are women going through during this time? What have they experienced in these spaces and how do we deal with tho? th th th th th the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the, the, the, the, the, the, tho, tho, thr-i, thrown, thrown, tho, tho, tho, tho, thrown, thrown, thrown, thrown, thrown, thrown, thr, thrown, thr, th.... th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, theeeeeeeeeee, the, the, the this time? What have they experienced in these spaces and how do we deal with that?

It's no different in this book. You've gone into the specificity of what black people are experiencing. But what I've found in life is oftentimes when you're going to the specificity, ironically, it starts to connect with more people generally. And so I'd love that some white people don't even realize that they've been affected by this thing, and then some people from other communities

have been affected by this thing. Have you found that happening? Absolutely. One of the things I've said about this book is that we could do this exact book for different communities. We could have a book about shame vulnerability and the queer experience. And, you know, this is at the end of the day about our humanity. And when you are just connecting to the park, this about our humanity, then you understand it really is a universal story. There's nuance to it though, right? Because the way that I show up in the world is deeply affected by the systems that are in place. to make me feel less than and not worthy to make my life be in danger, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, the, tha, tha, tha, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, and, and, and thi, and thrown, and thrown, and thi, and, and, and, and, and thi, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the, thi.a, thi.a, thr.a, thr.a, thr.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a. th. th th thr. th thr. And, th thr. And, thin, th th not worthy to make my life be in danger, right? So I have a different story to tell, but we're all, white supremacy affects everybody, not

just black people, right? Racism affects everybody and so it is, including the perpetuators of it. So this is, this is really about the expansion and people really being more invested in black humanity. We talk, Brunay and I talked about this and I mentioned in the book that I think anti-racism work is important, but I think there's steps to take before we get to that. And I don't want it to be reduced to a checklist to people saying, oh, I read this book, and I saw this podcast, and I follow this person on social media, so I got it, I'm anti-racist, but you really have an engage with black humanity.

One of the contributors that says that anti-racist work is not transactional, it's relational. Oh, wow. Yeah, I go. Right. And that is, that's such an important thing to understand when engaging with this book. This is not just a book to read because you feel bad about, you know, Brianna Taylor. This is a great, right, right. Because of who you are as a human being and how you want to show up in the world in relation to other human beings

and seeing black people in our fullness, right? I honestly feel like the first reader, the first, this is an offering to black people first because we also need to see our humanity, you know, like engage in our own humanity and see it appreciated and find spaces to be expansive in that. So I want us to read it and appreciate this as an offering first. Yeah, I mean, when I look at the list of names who have contributed to this series of essays, it's a wide tapestry of people who have been connected through maybe the color of their skin, but their experiences go far and broad beyond that.

Like, for instance, LeVern Cox, Mark Lamont Hill, Austin Channing Tatum, you know, Jason Reynolds, and then your own child, we've got a Kai and Adira who shares stories. And I think that's what really touched me. In reading some of these stories is how vulnerable in sharing the people are. It's terrifying. It is really scary to share some of these stories because, A, you go, am I sharing too much? B, you go, what is the purpose of me doing this? And then C, I often think it must be hard to realize

some of these things as you're putting them into words. So, Brunet, on your side, I guess it's a two-part question. Number one, how do we live in a world where we become more aware of this for each other, I'm going to give you the space to try and talk about these things and I guess make it just a safer place to be in. And secondly, how can we as people try and identify those shortcomings that we have? Yeah, I just remember this crazy moment when we started getting the essays in and I called Toronto and I was like, have you read any? She's like, yeah, I've read 10. I said, me too. I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I'm, I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm try. I'm try. try. I'm try. try. try. try. th. th. try. th. th. th. th. th. I th. I'm me too, and I said, what do you think? And she goes, I'm learning a lot about blackness that I didn't know. And I said, I'm learning a lot about my mother that I didn't really, like, I got my relationship with my family that I didn't know.

So I really, here's the thing. We share stories with people who've earned the right to hear them. And we share them in space. their their their their their their their to hear them. And we share them in space that, you know, just because vulnerability feels like a privilege right now doesn't mean, I mean, there are really extreme consequences. The data are very clear that vulnerability is inextricably connected to intimacy, trust, love, belonging, courage. And so I think the commitment is,

how do we create workplaces in schools and communities where armor is neither required nor rewarded? And that's the question. I think for white folks, the question I have all the time is, when you see something that's I think blatant dehumanization, what story the story to the trust trust, what story do the trust. the trust trusts????, trusts. trusts. trusts. tr question I have all the time is when you see something that's I think blatant dehumanization, what story do you have to tell yourself to be okay with that? Cool. What story are you making up? Whether it's, you know, we'll go back, I've done work with, you know, some of the parents from Sandy Hook, whether it's Sandy Hook, or it's George Floyd, or it's Mekiah Bryant.

What story do you have to say to yourself to release yourself from any ownership or be okay with what's happening? Wow. Yeah, that one always takes me out too. We all should have us off that question. It's a narrative, you know. What is it? When people are going to be the story, the story, the story the story the story the story th. th. th th thi thi thi to be to be thi thi to be to be thi thi thi thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What th. What th. What th. What th. What th. What th. What th. What th. What th. What th. What th. What th. What th. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What's thi. What's thooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo? th. What th. out too. We all should have us off that question. It's a narrative, you know? What is it? When people are going to be reading these stories, some will read it as a them story, some will read it as a, oh, information story, but some might go, what do you want me to take from it? Toronto, do you have an idea of what you'd like for people

to absorb once they're finished reading other people's stories? Yeah, I think it goes back to the question of humanity. I think that it is a way for us to be more connected, but also, I think to see black people not as a monolith, we say that all the time, black people are on a monolith. You have lots of data here to show you that that's true. That we are fully human and we are, to your point about, like wanting people to understand the nuance and the depth of the experience of these various things. I think that's what the book does and I think that's the offering.

We can talk about white supremacy all we want, and we hear that word and people either repel or they get it, but when you understand that somebody is really fearful for their three-year-old child because of white supremacy or we're fearful about how we show up in the, you know, the way it's going to affect us in the world because of white supremacy, it's very different than just hearing it or seeing a meme on the internet. And I really want people to really connect and engage with the stories and understand and put that in the context of all the things you've been learning about anti-racist this or whatever about white supremacy, all the stuff that's been coming up, intersectionality, I think it really is personifies those things and I want people to see that. Yeah, I love that. I mean, if we end on that note, I think for me,

the conversations we have can be very academic in how we talk about some of these things, but what I enjoyed about these stories is it's stories. Every human being understands a story. And even if you don't have some of the fancy academic terms, which I often don't have to express them, I think we all know how to be human beings. And when a human being is being a human being, it reminds us that we are too. So thank you both for joining me on the show. Toronto Burke, always a pleasure. Dr. Bernay Brown, wonderful meeting you. Good luck with the book and hopefully I'll see you both again. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks y'all. Bye.

The Daily Show with Trevor Noa, Ears Edition. Watch the Daily Show weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central and. Watch full episodes and videos at the Daily Show.com. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. And subscribe to the Daily Show on YouTube for exclusive content and more. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible.

I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes, a second look, starting September 17th, wherever you get your podcasts. This has been a Comedy Central podcast.