The Daily Show: Ears Edition - ICYMI - Timothy Snyder Discusses "On Tyranny" and How to Maintain a Democracy

Episode Date: September 3, 2020

Yale history professor and "On Tyranny" author Timothy Snyder weighs in on what the rise of European fascism can teach Americans about preserving democracy. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. You're rolling? But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Seth Done of CBS News, listen to 60 Minutes, a second look on Apple podcasts starting September 17th. Timothy Snyder Welcome to the show. So glad to be here.

You have written a book about tyranny now. I don't understand why. Why would you do this now? I can't think of one good reason. Yeah, the reason is everything that we know about history and the reason is the best American tradition, which is that when you're in a moment of peril like this one, you look around for how other people have failed,

and you learn from them. So that's what the framers are our constitution did. But now we have 200 more years of failed democracy, and 200 years of smart people we can learn from. The book tries to get that across in about 20 minutes. You know what I will say, what I enjoy about the book is, it's tiny, it's easy to get through and it's super interesting. You've got a lot of history in this field, I mean, excuse the pun, but you've studied the rise of fascism in the 1930s. You know, you've published a dozen books, I'm, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, is th. th, is, is, th, is, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, ti, ti, ti, ti, toda, ti, toda, today, today, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, t you were to look at the Trump administration,

not to be hyperbolic, but what similarities would you see or would you say you see between the rise of fascism in, you know, pre-World War II Germany and in the US right now? Yeah, history is great because history is bracing. On the one hand, it's bracing because it tells us how bad things can get. So we're in the second globalization now. The first globalization had opponents. It had crises, it had contradictions, like the first world war, the Second World War, the Great

Depression. Hitler, Stalin. On the other hand, Hitler is, history is bracing because it tells us what we can learn and what we can do that there are alternatives. So how are we like the 1930s? Globalization is being challenged. That's similar. There are people coming from the far right and saying globalization has a face, maybe a Jewish face, maybe a dark face, that's also similar. Mr. Trump in particular in his rallies and his habits of speech is a bit like a fascist. There are things here we have to watch out for, but history also empowers. It helps us to get out of these traps.. So, their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. their, their, their, their, their, th. th. the, th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. the. to, to, to, to, to, thee. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. th things here we have to watch out for, but history also empowers.

It helps us to get out of these traps, so we have to look at it first. So if we're looking at history and we're looking at the core differences, what are the differences? Are the differences that Hitler knew when he was leaking? Like, what would you say the core differences are in terms of what America is dealing with now versus any leader, not just Hitler in the past? So there's a reason why I don't use Mr. Trump's name in the book, which is that it's not

really about Mr. Trump, it's really about us. History is there for us. It expands what we can see, it expands what we can learn. So although it is really important that Mr. Trump invites Russians to the Oble office with digital equipment at their side and then spills national security secrets, right? Yes. That's important. That is important. Yeah, right? So I'm agreeing with your opening. Okay. But it may be even more important that the Germans and the Soviets and the other people the 20th century who saw democracy collapse were just as smart as we are or maybe smarter. So it may be time for us to learn from them what we can do to defend democracy.

That's the book. It's interesting that you say that because I mean like some of these chapters are really fascinating in what they say. For instance, chapter 10 here is believe in truth. And you write to abandon facts is to abandon freedom. If nothing nothing th nothing th nothing th nothing th nothing th nothing th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th is th th is th thi thi thi thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's interesting is interesting is interesting is thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's interesting is the. It's interesting is thi. It's to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the th. It. It. It. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's th. It's the the the the the the the the the the the the. It's the. It's the. It's the the the the the the the the the the the the thea.a.a. It's thea. It's toea. It's toea. It's th abandon freedom. If nothing is true, then no one can criticize power, because there is no basis upon which to do so. If nothing is true, then all is spectacle. The biggest wallet pays for the most blinding lights. That's a powerful statement to make. Why is post-truth so powerful?

It goes back to your other question about fascism. So fascism says nothing's true, your daily life is not important, the facts that you think you understand are not important, all that matters is the myth, the myth of one nation that's together, the myth of the mystical mystical connection with the leader. When we think of post-truth, we think it's something new, we think it's something that campuses, we think it's something irrelevant. Actually what post truth truth truth truth truth truth truth truth truth truth truth truth truth truth truth truth truth truth access to facts, we can't trust each other. Without trust, there's no law. Without law, there's no democracy. So if you want to rip the heart out of

a democracy directly, if you want to go right at it and kill it, what you do is you go after facts. And that's what modern authoritarianians do. Step two, you say it's theira, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. thr. true. to. to. to. to. to. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. time. Step two, you say it's your opponents and the journalists who lie. Step three, everyone looks around and says, what is truth? There is no truth. And then resistance is impossible and the game's over. Wow. You know, my favorite thing about the book other than the steps that are in it, on the stories you tell is that it's tiny, so you can keep it in your pockets and then when when when when when when when when when when when when when when when the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the too too too too too too too the the too too too too too too too too too too too too too too too too too too too to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the te the te te te te te te te true true true true true true true true true to to the steps that are in it and the stories you tell is that it's tiny, so you can keep it in your pockets and then when the tyranny is chasing you, you can be like, ah, what did he say again? Ah! Oh, you don't want as well. I like your stuff. Thank you so much for being here. On Tyranny. On Tyrny Sc-Ten-Ti. It's available now. Ti. Tim. Tis. Tis. Tis. Tis. Tis. Tis. the. the. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. th. th. the thi. the the th. the the the tha, is is available is available is available is available is available is available is available is available is available is available is available is available now. tha. the the the the the the the the the thi. It is available is available is available is available is available is available. It is available. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. Tis. the. the. the. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tode. toda. today. today. today. today. today. ttoday. today. today. today. ttoday. today. today.nights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central, and the Comedy Central app. Watch full episodes and videos at the Daily Show.com. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram,

and subscribe to the Daily Show on YouTube for exclusive content and more. This has been a Comedy Central Podcast. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change. Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News.

Listen to 60 Minutes a second look on Apple podcasts starting September 17.