The Daily Show: Ears Edition - If You Don't Know, Now You Know - Racist History of Highways | Frances Haugen

Episode Date: February 10, 2022

Trevor examines the racist origins of America's highway system, Dulcé Sloan highlights Black romance novelists, and whistleblower Frances Haugen discusses Facebook's destructive effects. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. Valentine's Day is coming up. I wish all of you a happy, happy Valentine's. May it be blissful, may it be peaceful, and may it be filled with whatever you need. That's what we say back home. Valentine's Day is a very important day in South Africa. We celebrated in church. It has nothing to do with like sex and romance.

You go to church and then you pray about sex and romance. You know what's crazy about Valentine's Day? You know what I mean? Like it's like the saint of Valentine's Day. And do you ever think about like how shitty it is for certain saints, like what they have to look after? Do you know what I mean? Because like some saints have cool things. St. Christopher, the saint of travel. Saint, look after me as I take on this treacherous

journey. Please, St. Christopher, look after me. St. Sebastian, the saint of martyrdom. You're going to die, you're going to give up your life to life. St. Sebastian, look after my soul as I give my life up for a great cause. St. Valentine. St. Valentine, yo, man, can you help me find chocolate at CVS? Please, man, let me figure out the aisle, because I'm trying to smash tonight, yo. And the cheap chocolate, not those like super expensive Belgian ones. Just good enough that she thinks I thought about her ahead of time. All right, St. Valentine. Valentine, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thi Thanks, thi, thi, th. Thank, th. Thank, th. Thank, th. Thank, th. Thank, th. Thank, th. Thank, th. Thank, th. Thank, th. Thank, th. Thank, th. Thank, thi, thi, th. tha I thought about her ahead of time. All right, it's in Valentine. Thanks, my dude. Coming to you from the heart of Times Square in New York City, the only city in America. It's the Daily Show, ears edition.

Tonight, roads are racist. Reading up for Valentine's Day. And Francis Hogan. This is the Daily Show with Trevor Noah. Hey, what's going on everybody? Welcome to the Daily Show. I'm Trevor Noah. Let's jump straight into today's headlines. We kick things off with Bitcoin, the only money that doesn't have slaveholders on it. One of the advantages of cryptocurrency was supposed to be how it was secure from theft. And I would explain why, but instead just ask that one dude that one dude that the advantages of cryptocurrency was supposed to be how it was secure from theft. And I would explain why, but instead just ask that one dude at the next party you go to.

He'll be very happy to go into great detail. But despite the super security of crypto, there have unfortunately been some major cryptoheist over the years. And the same technology that makes it hard to steal also makes the perpetrators extremely hard to catch. Hard, but not impossible. This morning, the Justice Department announcing the largest single seizure of funds in the department's history.

Investigators say hackers broke into an online currency exchange back in 2016, stealing 120,000 Bitcoin, which at the time was worth 71 million dollars. But today, it's worth a staggering 4.5 billion. Ilya Lichtenstein and his wife, Heather Morgan, are charged with laundering Bitcoin tied to the hack, using thousands of small transactions and accounts set up with fake IDs. Holy shit, four and a half billion dollars in stolen Bitcoin. This is huge. You realize, you realize there's 330 million people in the United States,

and that's 4.5 billion dollars. So that means you could give each person in the US 10... 10... If you... If you... 10... If you... 5... You could give everyone some money. And by the way, you might think that everyone who uses Bitcoin would be happy

that the police were able to track down this stolen crypto. But it turns out no. It turns out a lot of the crypto community actually took this as bad news. Because crypto currency is supposed to be anonymous. And if the FBI can trace Bitcoin to someone who might have stolen it, what's to stop them from tracking innocent people who are just using Bitcoin to buy heroin and automatic weapons? This is scary stuff. But where some people see a problem, I like to see opportunities,

which is why my friends, I've created a new form of currency that is totally anonymous and completely untraceable, and it comes with just a little bit of cocaine on it. So if you're interested, I'm going to be selling these on my website for $50 each. I think it's a steel. Now you're probably wondering, who are the criminal geniuses, who are part of one of the biggest financial crimes in history?

Well, you know when they say you should never meet your heroes? Yeah, this is why. Lichtenstein, a US and Russian citizen is described in a profile online as a tech entrepreneur. And according to Morgan's social media profiol, thiol, thiol, th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'ma, I'm, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm thi, I I'm thi, I I I I'm thi, I I I I I I I I I I I, I, I I I, I I, I I, I I, I, I, I, I, I'm, I, I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm going thi, I'm going thi, thi, to as a tech entrepreneur. And according to Morgan's social media profiles, she's a serial entrepreneur and a part-time rapper. In one of her songs, Morgan calls herself the infamous crocodile of Wall Street. I'm many things. A rapper, an economist, a journalist, a writer, a writer, a writer, a their CEO.

I know what you're thinking. The Bitcoin crimes are nothing compared to calling this shit rap. What was that? A rapper and economist, a joke, yo, Rapper's not just like saying, what is that? And also, even if you are a rapper, you know it's never a good sign for your rap career, when you're listing all your other jobs in a song. You're just a rapper. This person is running around like, yo, this definitely doesn't pay the bills. I have to do a bunch a tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho, tho, thi definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the the the the their, their, their, the the the the the the the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th yo, this definitely doesn't pay the bills. I have to do a bunch of other things, because as you can tell, no one would pay for this. And this wasn't a once-off crime, by the way.

The rap video, not the money. This woman, it turns out, has been spitting wet fire everywhere that she's been given a chance. Mother-Fahawed-o. Hodo what I got to do yodel our mission is noble. Yeah, want to be a mogul My tendie's going global Building Empire Constantinople you mean Istanbul get icy like fro you I'll gotta stay vocal Bitcoin a theory of hodal emcee game stop yolo Please Jesus I beg you no more

What is she what is she? Which rap is she? That she thi thou? That she that she thought that was a reference? that? That. that. that? That's that was a that was a that was a that was a that was a that was a that was a that was a that was a that was a global. that was a global. that was a global. that was a global. that was a global. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. Global is a global. Global. G. G. G. G. Global. Global. Global. Global. Global. Global. Global. Global. Global. Global. Global. Global. Global. Global. Global. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. That's going. That's going. That's going. That's going. That was a that was a that was a that was a that was a that was a that was a that was a that was a that was a that was a that was a that was a. That was a. That was a. That. That. That's. That's. That. That. That. That. That. That's. That. That's. That's. That's. That. Jesus, I beg you, no more. Like, what is she, which rap is she listening to? That she thought that was a reference for rap? That's what I want to know. Like, where was she listening to rap? And she's like, I could do that. I'm gonna go and do the exact same thing. No, no, yo-yo. What are you thinking is that? Are you okay in there? Here's the tip, kids.

If you want to look cool while doing your rap, don't read your lyrics off to the side. Practice and learn the thing. Because otherwise it sort of eliminates your swag. The whole time she's like doing this to catch the next rhyme that's ditto. You can't do that. No rapper would have succeeded. Can you imagine if Tupac was reading his rhymes off on the side? You claim to be a player but a... Screw you, sorry guys, Scrooge your wife. We bust on a bad... Can we get a, can we get a different font? If you have four, five, four point five billion dollars,

why are you on Tick Tock? What are you on Tick Tock? What areto be on Tick Tock anymore. No one wants to be on TikTok. You think Shaq is dancing for fun? That man has deaths. Look at the pain in his eyes. They're coming for his family. I'll never understand how people are smart enough to commit the biggest crimes but then dumb enough to never get away with it. I mean, like there's a better way to do this crime. And I'm not trying to give anyone advice on how to do crime. Please, I'm not giving advice. But here's the thing. If you steal crypto, don't just keep it all in one place, you know. What you've got to do is break it up into multiple wallets. You keep those walled offline in separate drives, right? Then you make sure that doesn't have any extradition laws to the US, then you launder the money slowly using other crypto or NFTs.

And again, I'm not giving advice on doing crime. This has been Trevor's advice on doing crime. All right, let's move on to our top story. What of President Biden's biggest accomplishment so far, I mean, aside from allowing students to keep their debt has been the infrastructure package. It's a $1.2 trillion law that's going to help rebuild roads, expand access to clean drinking water, and finally get around to adding all the other colors to stoplights. And while most of the infrastructure package was pretty uncontroversial, there was one thing that was very deep in the package that has actually got a lot of people riled up. Democrats, led by President Biden, say

now is the time to build back better. But leaders don't just want to build and update roads. In some cases, they want highways torn down. Democrats would like to provide funding to tear down highways that had a damaging effect on urban minority communities. There is racism physically built into some of our highways. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. Democrats, th. And, th. And, the th. And, the th. And, the the th. th. th. th. thi. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. And, tho. And, tho. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, to tear down highways that had a damaging effect on urban minority communities. There is racism physically built into some of our highways. And that's why the jobs plan has dollars specifically committed to reconnect some of the communities that were divided. Critics though slamming the secretary after he said Biden's infrastructure bill would address racism in highways.

I guess now, according to Democrats, roads are now racist. And you need to apologize for it. Roads can't be racist. You can't build racism into a road. Roads are made of sand and gravel and asphalt, ask any road builder. Roads cannot be racist any more than toasters or sectional couches can be racist. They are inanimate objects.

They're not alive. Okay, first of all, toasters can't toters, tot, tot, tot, tot, to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, told, told, told, told, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to, to, to, to, to to to to to to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to to to to to to to to to the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th toa. toa. toa. toa. toa. toa. toa, toa, toa, toa, toa, to to to to toa, toasters can totally be racist. Yeah. I can't even count how many times I've put a piece of white bread into a toaster and it came out wearing blackface. That shit wasn't cool. But yes, look, the idea that highways can be racist has completely blown the minds over at Fox News. And I get why. I get why Tucker is so puzzled by this.

If highways were racist, then surely they would have been a guest on his show by now. It must be very confusing for him. But there is actually a real explanation for why Pete Budajejeej is so mad about America's roads. And it's not just because he keeps failing his driver's ed test. No, there's another reason. So let's find out why. an another installment of, if you don't know, now you know. Highways. They are the vital arteries that crisscross America, helping the country's truckers, transport goods. Its workers commute to and from the office.

And its OJs flee the LAPD. But what you may not know is that when America first started building its highway system back in the 1950s, people were often forced to leave their homes to make room for all these fancy new roads. And guess which people were moved the most? Guess? The Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956 was one of the largest public works projects in American history. It added 41,000 miles to our interstate system. Pretty much every major city in the country in New York, D.C. San Francisco, Philadelphia, you have major highways,

you have major highways, their neighborhoods, requiring the demolition of lots of housing and other sorts of buildings. That as they're thinking about where they're going to drop highways and destroy neighborhoods, they invariably single out what they see is the worst neighborhoods in their communities. It became a pattern in cities across the country. Poor and minority residents were displaced to make way for highways, and white residents used those highways to commute into the city for jobs

and commute back home at night. Planners had an uncanny ability to pick out the black neighborhoods. The route for I-94 in St. Paul displaced one in seven of the city's black residents. Very few blacks were living in Minnesota, one critic noted, but the road builders found them. Yeah, that's right. Highway I-94 could have been anywhere in Minnesota, but it just happened to displace the very few black people living in Minnesota. More commonly known as the Minnesota Timberwolves. And look, don't get me wrong, don't get me wrong. These highways had to go somewhere. I'm not saying no highways, but more often than not, that somewhere was right through a black

neighborhood. Because you see, rich white neighborhoods, they didn't allow this to happen to them, but brown and black families didn't have any political power to stop it. I mean, what were they going to do? Take to the streets? It wasn't possible. They hadn't been built yet. And look, black people are used to being displaced by gentrification, even today. But at least when that happens, they get to enjoy shakeshack for a few months first. These highways, on the other hand, slashed a hole through it. And whatever was left of that neighborhood, just withered and died. From the beginning, the Rondo

neighborhood was a haven for people of color. At its peak from the 30s to the 50s, it had black-owned grocery stores, credit unions, and social clubs. During construction from 1956 to 1968, Rondo lost 700 houses, 300 businesses, and the population declined by 61%. In Florida, Overtown was the center of Black, Miami. The I-95 tore through the neighborhood, wiping out countless homes as well as its thriving business district. Kansas City, Chicago, Boston, Detroit, New York City, Montgomery, Los Angeles. The list goes on and on.

And it's actually pretty heartbreaking to see how devastating these highways were for the black communities that they ran through. Streets that were once filled with black people are still empty to this day. And of course, of course these communities crumbled once a highway ran through it. I mean, highways, think of all the things they bring. Highways bring noise, they bring pollution. If you're really unlucky, spontaneous musical numbers, I'm trying to get to work. I mean, have you ever looked on the side of a highway and thought to yourself,

yeah, that looks like a nice place to live? No. You probably thought, I wonder if I can't th th th th th th th th th th th th thu thu th thu thu thu that that that that that that that that that, I that, I thate thate thate th thate that, I that, I that, I thus, I thus, I thus, I tho thus, I thu. thu. thu. thus, I thu. thu. thu. thus, I thu. thu. thu. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. than, than, than, than, than, than. thr. thr. thr. thr. throoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. th. th. the fact that they destroyed black neighborhoods wasn't the only racist thing about how highways were designed. You see, around the time the highways were being built, segregation laws were being struck down in America. But lucky for the racists, they didn't need the laws to enforce segregation because now the highways did it for them. Infrastructure didn't just break up black communities. It reinforced segregation. The 1938 Federal Housing Administration underwriting manual said an artificial barrier like a highway could protect a neighborhood from, quote,

adverse influences, like, quote, inharmonious racial groups. They laid the interstate down right on the black, white line. Bam. white line, bam. And what that meant was that it'd be much harder to have school integration. I mean you couldn't have kids walking across the interstate for heaven's sakes. A report from the Georgia Historical Society says that while deciding the route of I-20, the Atlanta Bureau of Planning said it would be the boundary between white and African-American communities.

Because the highways in Atlanta were laid down primarily with the races apart rather than keeping traffic moving efficiently, it laid them down in a way that today, traffic in Atlanta is incredibly snarl. I-20 zigzags from east to west and a route that makes no sense unless you know it was laid down with a desire to segregate. Man, racism is a hell of a drug. I mean, think about it, instead of designing the most efficient highway, they instead made it zigzag around the city like some kind of racist Mario Cots.

Although if you're real about it, Mario Cot is pretty racist. Because in real life, when Italians get in a car accident, they don't yell, mama mia, I love the spaghetti. Do you have any insurance on you? And guys, I don't know about you, but there is nobody that I hate more than I hate traffic. Like, I will literally shake hands with my worst enemy if it means I can get where I'm going 30 minutes faster. I'm still not friends with you, Winter.

But at least we're both going to get home at five. And I'll make the sun set at five. I hate you so much! Oh, can you turn on the AC please? So yes, highways might not be following black people around department stores or turning them down for loans, but the way that highways were built in America was in arguably racist. In ways that still affect American society to this day. And I know, like, I know that people like Taka and Sean Hannity, they love to make it seem like talking about the racist history of highways

means that you're somehow calling people racist today because they still drive on those freeways. Wow, are you racist? No, that's not the case. Nobody's telling you to walk to your next family vacation. What we're saying is, if we can try to understand the history of how a thing came to be, then maybe we can figure out how to make it better when we build new roads in the future. And if you don't know, now you know. All right, when we come back back, thSloan is going to get us in the mood for Valentine's Day. Oh yeah. Welcome back to the Daily Show.

This Monday is Valentine's Day, the day that will be the reason couples break up six months from now. But for all the people out there who are already single, we turn to Dulce-Sloan for a Valentine's Day episode of Dul-Saying. I hope you all have a romantic evening and your carriage ride around the park is filled with horse farts. I want to wish all the couples a happy Valentine's Day. I hope you all have a romantic evening and your carriage ride around the park is filled with horse farts. I've been single for too long, because, you know, dating apps are digital dumpster diving. The only thing that's got me through it are romance novels. M-uh! But not just any romance novel.

I'm talking about the unsung heroines of the erotic. All the black women writing the best ones. For example, the queen of black historical romance, Beverly Jenkins. Just check out the passage from her novel, Indigo, which I imagine is read to me by Jesse Williams. She moved her hands over the strength of his back, kissing him, flicking her tongue against the edges of his lips, experimenting with the boldness his passion had planted within her, while his hands beneath her gown toured lustily.

No man had ever touched her this way. Oh, damn. I remember the first time I read this. I fell right out of my chair. No, I slid out. I love how she was flicking her tongue against the edges of his lips. Ooh, you know a writer is good if they make kissing sound sexy even when it's wrong. Like don't be licking his lips? Get

that poor man some chapstick. Now if you want to go a bit more old-school in your romance, you can try Ruby Saunders. She was best known for a series following Nurse Marilyn Morgan and her steamy affairs with doctors. The series was coming at you with some hot lines. Hank was standing behind her now and somehow his arms were around her waist. Hank pressed close to her. She could feel his breath on the back of her neck. I won't hurt you, honey. He murmured at his arms tightened around her. They sank into the cushions together.

Shit! Listen, everyone knows that sinking into the cushion means good sex. Or your couch is too old. Either way, you're gonna be sore in the morning. By the way, we would never have known many of these authors if it wasn't for book publishers like Vivian Stevens. She was groundbreaking, not just because she sought out writers of color who wrote about women with real depth, but also because she wasn't afraid to publish explicit sex thees. She changed the game with her publishing company,

Candelite Ecstasy, which is one of those terms that only belongs in a romance novel. If you combine Candlelight and Ecstasy in real life, you're gonna lose your eyebrows. Stevens helped publish great authors like Sandra Kitt, who wrote love stories featuring both black and white characters, so she referred to herself as a switch hitter, which I feel like means something different now. Is that when the dick is ambidextress, like like like like like like like like th, like th, like th, like th, like the the the th, the the the the the the the the the th, the the the the the the the their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, to their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, th......e.e, t.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e..e.e. te.e.e.e. their. their. their. their Is that when the dick is ambidextrous? Like, it can hold a pin with his left and its right testicle?

Anyway, one of Sandra Kitt's greatest contributions was the novel, Adam and Eva. This novel is about Eva Duncan escaping the death of her husband. She takes a vacation to the Virgin Islands, and basically by the time she leaves, they're just called the islands. What I like about Sandra's writing is how she evokes the physical sensation of sex and also the butts. Just check out this passage. When Maxwell's other hand made a sensuous journey up the back of one thigh, causing a quaking through the center of her body as he pressed her butto

bring her against his distinct, hard, masculine form. She finally came to her senses, pulling her mouth away with a gasp and turning completely within the circle of his arms. I'm finished. Well, I'm finished. Well, I wasn't. Well, I guess that about wraps it up for book club. So when your single ass is curled up with a book about people curling up with each other, make sure not to forget the black women that paved the way for you to hear lines in your head like this. They could resist each other no longer. She in her robe, skin aglow, lips pursed. He hovered above her, lustful yet firm,

whispering her name, Dulce. Ooh. Wait, Dulce? Really, did you write this? Don't break character. Didn't you go to acting school? No? Huh? Self-talked? Okay. I see you.

Thank you so much for that, Dulce. All right, when we come back, I'll be talking to the woman who exposed Facebook's biggest secrets. You don't want to miss it. Welcome back to the Daily Show. My guest tonight is former Facebook product manager turned whistleblower, Frances Hougain. She's here to talk about how Facebook prioritizes profits over public safety

and teen mental health. Francis Hougain, welcome to the daily show. Thank you for inviting me. Happy to be here. Your name isn't as big as the story that you really, I mean, leaked to the world. You know, a lot of people you say, Francis, how can they be like, who is that? But then if you say to people, hey, remember how we all learned that Facebook and what social media is doing is essentially destroying teenagers' brains and it's harming

all of us? Yeah, that report happened because of you. So let's start the the tha the tha tha tha their the their their thiiiiiiiiii. their th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thoomomomomome. thoomome. thoome. thoomorrow th. th. th. th. th. th. thoomoomoom. to to to to to to to th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to to th. to to to to to to to to to to to to to their their their their their their their th. th. th. th. th. th. the. to to the. toe. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. thea. because of you. So let's start with the question of why. You've worked for Google, you've worked for Pinterest, you've worked for Yelp, and yet you blew the whistle on Facebook. Why did you feel like, oh, this is something I can't sit on. So when I joined Facebook, I thought I was going to work on misinformation in the United States and I was surprised and I actually was charged with working on information only outside the United States. Okay. And like many people and many technologists, I had never really focused on Facebook's impact internationally and very rapidly I realized kind of the

horrifying magnitude of the danger that we were facing that Facebook's algorithms give the most reach to the most extreme and divisive ideas. And that process is destabilizing some of the most fragile places in the world, like Ethiopia or what happened in Myanmar. You see, when you say that, there are some people who are accepted immediately. And then there are some people be like, that's not true at all. But I'm sure there are a lot of people who will say, but I mean, aren't they always going to be extreme people in the world? You know, aren't there's always somebody saying something.

You know, Facebook themselves say they go like, hey, we're not part of the problem. We're merely a platform that people put the imagine you had a relative who had particularly extreme ideas. You know, we often say like the crazy uncle. Right, right, right. Right. Right. That person, if we're talking to them one-on-one or we're talking to them at a family gathering, that scale allows for resolution.

Okay. What's happening on Facebook right now is ideas that are the most able to elicit a reaction and the shortest path to a click is anger, those get the most reach and ideas that are more moderate or that try to bring us into synthesis or to help us find a middle path, those aren't as likely to elicit a comment from you or elicit a like. And so Facebook doesn't give it as much distribution. So Facebook is essentially propelling certain ideas out there. so th. So th. So th. So th. So th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, their, their, their, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi, thi, thi, their, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. tho. tho. tho. thoooo. thoooo. thoooooo. the. thoo. tho. tho. So Facebook is essentially propelling certain ideas out there. So they may say, we're the platform, but really what they're also doing is they're advocating for certain viewpoints because they push those out,

because those get people engaged and spinning in the cycle. So I think it's a thing where it's not they sit out and go, how can we have more extreme ideas. that there are lots of solutions that are not about censorship. It's not about picking good or bad ideas or good or bad people. It's about how do we change the dynamics of these systems so that you could have good speech counter bad speech. How do we give those more of an equal say at the table? You know, it's interesting that you lay it out like this because I remember talking to my friends about this saying, have we become angrier in the world? Have we become less able to

have misunderstands? Because I sit with my friends and I go like, I don't agree on so many things with my friends, but I don't remember a time when that meant that I couldn't be friends with them. In the world of social media right now it feels like if I disagree with you on this, I disagree with you on everything. It seems like Facebook goes if you disagree on this, we're going to make or we're going to find more ways to find where you disagree or how to make you disagree. Yeah, so some people have said this idea of like Facebook's always looking for fault lines,

right? So a high quality piece of content is one that that gets lots of engagement. And it turns out an angry comment. Where it causes us to yell at a th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, thi, thi, to be, to be, to be, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to to to to to to to to to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, thi...... We, too, thin, too, too, too, too, too, the.o, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, know it causes us to yell at each other that is viewed as a higher quality piece of content and so I you know during COVID I've had friends who wrote very long thoughtful pieces that went in digested lots of information that's gonna cause less knee jerk reaction than something that really offends you. So masks don't work yeah people are clicking on that here's the thing about masks we have to consider in our society boo boo yeah Facebook's not pushing that. that. that that that that that that that that that that that that that that th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi thi thi, thi thi thi thi, you're thi, you're thi thi thi, you're thi, you thi, you thi, you thi, you thi, you thi, you thi, thi, thi, thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi th. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi throoing throing throing throing throing throing thi throing thi thi thi th Here's the thing about masks we have to consider in our society. Boo.

Facebook's not pushing that. So what's interesting in everything that you've done is, even though you're a whistleblower, even though you came out with this information, you've never said, shut Facebook down. You've never said this thing needs to go away. What you're arguing for is thi is is is is is is is is is is is is thing is thing is thing is thing is thing is thing is thing for is thing for is thing for is thiii, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, you're thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. that's interesting. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi is we change our relationship with not just Facebook, but social media companies a whole. Explain what that means. So often people talk with this idea

if we need to change our relationship with social media, it's more about like, should we use our phone so much? But I'm encouraging just to have a conversation about what's our relationship with companies? Or what's the company's relationships with us? Okay. Facebook knows that they have a level of unaccountability that's very different than either Google or Apple or other big platforms because in the case of Google we can scrape, we can download their results and analyze them and see if there are biases.

In the case of Apple, we can take apart the phones and put up YouTube videos saying Apple phones do or don't work the way they claim. But in case of Facebook, researchers and activists have been telling Facebook, hey we have found all tha tha tha tho their their thuuu.. th. thiii. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, we tho, we have tho, we have thi, we have thi, we have thi, we can thi, we can thi, we can thi, we can thi, we can thi, we can thi, we can their, th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, theeeean, thean, thea. We have thea. thean, thean, theea, thi, thi, thtelling Facebook, hey, we have found all these examples. We think there's a pattern here. We think there's too much human trafficking. We think kids are suffering. And Facebook keeps coming back because they know no one can call them on it and saying, that's just anecdotal, that's not real. When you release the information, we realize it wasn't anecdotal, it's real because Facebook had done the research. Right. You see now this is interesting because this reminds me of the tobacco companies. It reminds us of the, you know, the fossil fuel companies.

They do the research, they find out something really bad. And then, I mean, obviously they go like, we're not going to put this out there, but we know, one, it seems like the highest, at the highest risk. Yeah, Facebook's internal research says that the highest rates of problematic use peak at age 14. So you're not allowed to be on the platform until you're 13. So I guess it takes a little bit of time to form that habit, but the largest fraction of any of those age cohorts they sampled, and they've done studies that have 100,000 people in them. These are not tiny studies. They find that the largest fraction say, I can't control my usage, and I know it's impacting my health, my employment, or my school, is at age 14. And so there's a real thing where young people have, you, their, their, their, their, their, thua, thi, and thi, and thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. And th, thin, thi, thi, thi, th. And th. T, th. T, th. T, th. These are th. These th. These th. These th. These, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. These th. These th. These th. These, th. These, th. These, th. These, th. These, th. T, th. T, th. T, th. And, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thin, thee. And, thee. And, thea. And, thea. And, thea. And, thea, the. And, thi, th're struggling with issues in their life, yes. And they don't have the self-control yet and they see this, they

say this to researchers, they say, I know this is making me feel bad and I can't stop. I fear I'll be ostracized if I leave. And those factors mean it's not easy for kids just to walk away. It's also not easy for people to understand how to fix to fix to fix to fix to fix to fix to fix to fix to fix to fix to fix to fix their their their their their their their their their their their. their. their. their. their. to their. th. th. their. their, thi. thi. their, their, th. th. thi. th. th. th. th. th. I's th. I's th. I's th. I's, I's, I's, I's, I th. I th. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, th. I, th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. the, the. the. the. the. the. thean. thean, thean their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi. And, to understand how to fix it. You have lawmakers now who are trying to figure this thing out. Silicon Valley is way ahead of them, like way ahead of them. Lawmakers, you see these hearings, they'll be like, what if my Facebook is an instapap? They don't understand what's happening. So how do we begin creating a world where we're not destroying the companies but we're we're regulating them the way they should be. So the main thing I'm advocating for is around transparency because one of the problems today is because Facebook is the only one that holds the cards like they can see they can see whether or not they're holding you know

a royal flesh or not right what they claim. We need to move to a world where we have more access to data and that can be aggregate the the the the the the the the to their their to their their their their their their their is their is their is their is their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. th. their is their is th. th. to to to to to thi. to to their their their their their their their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is the problem the problem their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is thi. thi. thi. toda. today is today is today is. today is. today is. today is today. today. It's not, it's a false choice of privacy versus transparency. And once we have the ability to have conversations, we can stop talking about boogie-you-man social media. I see. And we can start having conversations on how do we solve these problems. I think what we need to do, and this is why I'm going to spend 2022 doing, to start, they, they, to start, they, to spend, to spend, the to spend, the the the the the the to spend, the to spend, I'm, I'm, the the the thii, thi, thi, thi, thi, to spend, to spend, to spend, to spend, to spend, to spend, to spend, to spend, to spend, to spend, to spend, to spend, to spend, to spend, to spend, to spend, to spend, to spend, their I'm going their their their their their, their, their, I'm going their, I'm going the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thiii, Imio, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, their, thiiia, thiiia, toea, toea, toea, toea, toea, toea, thi.a, to start organizing people. Like I want to plant a youth directed movement where we can begin putting pressure on Facebook to release this information. Because I don't think Facebook is just going to do it automatically out of goodness of the tart.

We have to force them too. And I think there's lots, lots of opportunities where we can begin putting pressure on them, either socially or financially. As a user of social media, as a person who speaks to all my friends on social media, I have my enemies on social media. I appreciate this conversation because I think if we're not careful, we end up in a world where we're all fighting really just because an algorithm is trying to make us fight half of those fights.

I've noticed, even with the show, if I say a thing on the show, this has been like the most interesting thing for me is, depending on what thip thip, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to toooooo.. too. too. too. too. too. to for me is, depending on what I say, Facebook sends that to different people. One time we had it on the show where, that's a real thing. One time we had on the show where literally I'd laid out both arguments. I said, here's one way to see it, here's another way to see it. But then on Facebook, only why didn't you say the other way? I was like, but that's exactly what I said. They're like, oh, well, I didn't see that. And then you realize, you know?

So one of the things that happens is, so let's say you take a video clip. So let's say you know, someone posted to a group, someone does into this, it enters into the network in a different way. And the algorithm begins picking up data on that, and it says, oh, interesting, like these kinds of people engage the kind of stone. And so, and echo chamber is real,

like the algorithm pulls us towards homogeneity. It's almost like, Facebook knows that you react most to your neighbor when they play loud music. There's no reaction from you when your neighbor plays an out of music, that's when you react. So the Facebook goes, I'm just gonna- It's even worse than that, actually. So, how can it be worse? So let's imagine there's music that you like and there's music you don't like. Oh, wow.

It actually knows, you really don't like, I don't know, reggaeton or something. And one things that I think go and correct people who are spreading, you know, racist, sexist, homophobic comments. And guess what? Now Facebook knows you engage with those keywords? So they send you more of that. And so they send more to... Yeah, I didn't know they were doing that.

They don't do it in purpose. It's a side effect. It's a side effect of the way the algorithm works. So the algorithm is designed to get is designed is designed is designed is designed is designed is designed is designed to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get the algorithm is designed to get the algorithm is designed to get as the algorithm is designed to get as to get as the algorithm is the algorithm is the algorithm is the algorithm is the algorithm is the algorithm is the algorithm is the algorithm is the algorithm is the algorithm is the algorithm is the algorithm is the algorithm is the algorithm is the algorithm is to get as to get as to get as to get as to get as to get as to get as to get to get to get to get as to get as to get as the algorithm is designed to get as the algorithm is designed to get as much much to get as much to get as much the the the the the to get as much much the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the algorithm is the algorithm is designed the algorithm is designed to get as much engagement as possible and the engagement unfortunately means you're more likely there's a there's a car accident I'm going to engage. Yeah yeah or more of if they had an option of showing you a stream of different things they know you got a car accident so they show you more. Man yeah this is hard because on the one hand I go like to stop looking at car accidents but the brain is the brain is the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. the brain. th. the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the things. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the things. things is things is things is things is the brain is the brain. It's the brain. You know, if all the AI is not intelligent, right, we like to say artificial intelligence, but people who actually study it, call it machine learning because it's not intelligent, it's just a hill climber,

it's optimizing. And, you know, think of all the different pieces of content you would expose to. It's not trying to show. to the most the most the most, the most, the most, the most, their, to to to the most extreme content. It happens to be to a fulfill its goal function, it mindlessly pushes you towards it. And so this is about Facebook making choices to not fix it. That Facebook has lots and lots of options that don't deal with content. They're letting the machine run wild.

Money. Money. That's what it is. Thank you so much. This has really been enlightening. Good luck on the rest of your journey. Thank you so much. If you want to learn more about Francis's advocacy work, then you can go to Francis Hougain. tho'com. We're going to take a quick break, but we'll be right back after this.

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