The Daily Show: Ears Edition - Is JFK Jr. Still Alive? - Jordan Klepper Fingers the Conspiracy

Episode Date: December 13, 2022

Is JFK Jr. still alive? Daily Show contributor and podcast host Jordan Klepper digs deep into this conspiracy theory that’s circulating at Trump rallies and the larger MAGA world. Where did this idea come from? Where is it going? Jordan sits down with journalist and author Will Sommer and political scientist and conspiracy theory expert Joseph Uscinski to trace the JFK Jr. myth back to its QAnon origins. Jordan Klepper Fingers The Conspiracy is a podcast from The Daily Show. Check out more episodes wherever you get your podcasts or YouTube.com/TheDailyShowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Survivor 47 is here, which means we're bringing you a brand new season of the only official survivor podcast on fire. And this season we are joined by fan favorite and Survivor 46 runner-up, Charlie, Charlie, I'm excited to do this together. Thanks, Jeff. So excited to be here, and I can't wait to bring you inside the mind of a survivor player for season 47. Listen to On Fire the official survivor podcast starting September 18th wherever you get your podcast. You're listening to Comedy Central. John F. Kennedy Jr. was the son of John F. Kennedy, the 35th president of the United States. Tragically, JFK Jr. was killed in a plane crash in 1999.

Or was he? Yes, he was. Of course he was. But what if he wasn't? What if he were about to re-emerge as the vice president of Donald Trump, who, by the way, is still the president? Sound crazy? It is. In fact, it's one of the wilder conspiracies I've that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that still the president? Sound crazy? It is.

In fact, it's one of the wilder conspiracies I've heard in my seven years covering Trump rallies. You're probably familiar with my daily show segments. Jordan Clepper fingers the pulse. Emmy nominated, twice, lost, twice, where I chat with tru, lost, twice. Where I chat with Trump supporters at rallies. We are not a cold, that's th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thatty. thath. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thath. thath. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I's, th. I's, th. I's, th. I's, th. I's, th. I's, th. I's, th. I's, th. I's, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I's, th. I's, thi. I's, thi. thireat women with respect. You gotta give me the back of that shirt one more time. That's too much fun. Trump, that bitch! Ha ha!

We don't even see the iron enemy. And if you're into conspiracy theories, then there's nothing that Trump would be reinstated as president? You've never looked. If you go online, there's a whole list of pedophile symbols. Really? Yes. It's like Woodstock.

Except everyone there thinks Jimmy Hendrix is a hologram. Normally, when one of these conspiracy theories comes up, I have to respond then move past it. Because we're th th th thi the the the they they they, they, they, they, they, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to thoom, thoom, thoom, thoom, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.ei. We's, thi. We're thi for TV and we have to stay somewhat focused. But this is a podcast. We don't have to stay focused at all. So I'm finally diving into some of the most incredible conspiracy theories that have been pitched to me at Trump rallies by America's most imaginative minds. This is Jordan Clepper Fingers the Conspiracy, an all-new, the the daily show. So folks, come on down from your grassy knolls and let's dig it. Let's talk about John F. Kennedy, Jr. But to help me do that, I want to bring in our first guest, Will Summer.

Will's a politics reporter for The Daily Beast, and he's got a book coming out in February called Trust the Plan, the rise of Q&N and the conspiracy that unhinged America. Well, welcome to Jordan Clepper Fingers, the conspiracy. I'm excited to have you on. You are here to help me walk through and understand what is going on in this world of John F. Kennedy, Jr. And I will say this. I go out on the road and I start hearing people talking about JFK Jr. And initially I'm thinking, oh they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they're they're they're they're their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. Well. Well, their their their their their their their their. Well. Well. Well, well. Well, well. Well, well. Well, well. Well, well. Well, well. Well, well. Well, well. Well, well. Well, well. Well, well. Well, well. Well, well. Well, well. Well, th. Well, th. Well, th. Well, th. Well, th. Well, th. Well, th. Well, th. Well, th. Well, th. Well, th. th. th. th. the. the. th. the. th. the. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. Well, th. I will say this. I go out on the road and I start hearing people talking about JFK Jr. And initially I'm thinking, oh, they're talking about JFK. There's a long history of conspiracies with JFK, and then I'm putting together that it's JFK Jr. And then I start to see signs up, I start to see bumper stickers that have him as vice presidential candidate to Donald Trump. And then a month or so back, I go to a rally in the Midwest, and I'm hearing sweet old grandmothers talk about John F. Kennedy,

Jr. and I can't make head or tales of it. Can you, can you set out a little bit of where this began? What do we need to know? Sure, so, I mean, this is really bizarre, as you noted. I mean, the origins of this are within Q&N. Of course, there was this figure Q, who was giving these anonymous clues. And then at one point in 2018, Q sort of vanished for a month on the forums where the clues came out. And then someone named R shows up and starts saying, you know, all of this is really about JFK Jr. And so that's kind of where it begins. And eventually Q comes back and kind of says like, this J J J J J J J J.JJJJJJJJ. this J. this J. this J. this J. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. Q. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. that's kind of where the where it begins and eventually Q comes back and kind of says like This JFK Junior stuff's garbage, you know, what have you been tricking all my people?

But the JFK junior stuff really starts there with this idea that JFK Jr. faked his death to take on the deep state and help Donald Trump sort of bring about this sort of Qan on Utopia. There's a conspiracy. It's a conspiracy to duck in. th. th. the the the the the th. the the the th. the tta. tta. tta. tta. tta. ttax. ttax. ttax. ttax. ttax. ttax. ttax. ttax. ttau tha. tri. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. t. t. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. t. t. J. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t.'s a conspiracy inside the conspiracy. It's a, it's a conspiracy turducin right now. Exactly. Yeah, it's sort of a splinter faction. And you get this situation where like the kind of the mainline Q&O people will often be like, oh my god, like, you know, I believe all this pizza gate stuff. But these JFK Jr people are embarrassing us. They just believe totally stupid stuff. That's the dynamic you want there. We're like, oh my God. Can we just go back to serious things,

like talking about how the Democrats drink baby's blood? And all this JFK junior stuff, we're losing credibility. Put your tidfoil hats back on and let's march. Yeah, I mean, basically they're saying they're saying they're saying they're saying they're saying they're saying they're saying they're saying they're saying they're saying they're saying they're saying they're saying these JFK Jr. people are almost like a government op meant to embarrass Q& on. But really this belief has in JFK Jr. has persisted ever since. So, but what was ours intention in this situation? Like initially that JFK Jr. one, is alive. So perhaps he faked his death.

And two, he's aligning himself with Donald Trump. It feels like there's four steps there that I'm even a hard time connecting. Why JFK Jr. and let's start with why he's alive and why that should matter. Sure, so the arc that is presented by R and I want to point out here that R is the letter after Q. And so that's sort of the explanation for the name. Is it or is it, Will? Will. Your mainstream elitist alphabet says it's the letter after Q. But I have, I, only if you're moving forward through time, but that's a whole other podcast. Exactly. So,

so the sort of the story that's laid out is that John F. Kennedy, the father is killed by the deep state, you know, in 1963. JFK Jr. sees this and says, oh man, the deep state might come for me and I want to get revenge on the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to the the to to to to to to, to, to, to, to, the to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the the. the, the, the, but thea, but the, but the, but the, but thea, but thea, thea, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, theat, t. teat, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to. to. teateateate, te, JFK Jr. sees this and says, oh man, the deep state might come for me and I want to get revenge on them for murdering my father. And so for years, he builds up this relationship with Donald Trump, you know, because they were both sort of these New York socialite figures, there are pictures of them together. And so this is used to sort of go undercover and sort of lay the groundwork for the Q&on journey and eventually emerge for a while

they thought he was going to replace Mike Pence in 2020 on the ticket and that he would sort of kind of help Trump and sort of get this final revenge on the deep state. So in this world, they see JFK Jr. as faking his own death to exist undercover and wait. to. to. to. to. to. to. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the. the. the. the the the. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the.k. the. the. the. the.k.k.k.k.k.k.k.k.k.k.k.k.k.k.k.k.k.k.k.k.k.k.k. te. to exist undercover and wait for the right time, still maintaining a relationship with Donald Trump throughout all of this? Or did Donald Trump just come about and become sort of an avatar for JFK Jr's Ascension? Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, a lot of it is a little contradictory and not super thought out. You know, that might surprise you right out, but basically the idea is that, you know, back in the 90s or the 80s, they kind of cut this deal and they said, Donald Trump said, man, this stuff is really messed up, you know, and then, and JFK Jr. went into hide it. And so then they sort of teamed up and jayf. And so, they sort of teamed up, theyfee, thr-and, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thr. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the, the, th. the, the, the, the, the, the, the, they. th. th. th. they. th. th. they. they. they. th. they. they. they. the the they. the th. th. th. the messed up. Let me let me run for president a few decades from now make this thing happen.

You're helping me connect that circle if it's a circle. What I'm confused about, I go out there JFK, famously, not a Republican. John F. Kennedy Jr., at least from my perspective, New York elite, not political, but somebody who is a magazine magnate and Seinfeld character. Doesn't exactly match up as the type of person that this often far right group would align themselves with. Why did they see this potential in somebody who's so outside of the norm? You know, I think that's a great question and what is the emotional resonance of JFK Jr? Why is it JFKJJJJJ and they, and they, and they, and they, and they, and they, and they, and they, and they, and they, and they, and they, and they, and they, and they're, and they're, and they're, and th, and th, and thi, and thi, and thi, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, th, and, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, they-s, they-s, thiiii...S, thi.S, thi.S, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi's, thi's, thi's, thin, thi's, sieei.s, siei. And, thi. And, thi. And of the norm. You know, I think that's a great question, and what is the emotional resonance of JFK Jr.

Why is it JFK Jr. they fixate on rather than another celebrity who died in the 90s? So, I think the answer to it is that when we think about the Q&OBJJUR, and I think in particular, the people who gothink the JFK assassination had a huge sort of emotional impact on them. And I think also JFK Jr. was sort of seen as this very like prominent baby boomer, sort of an avatar of his generation. And so in that way I think there is this kind of this very emotional

connection to him in a way that there that there wouldn't be with another celebrity. I think also the idea of JFK as like the the the the the the the of of of of of of of of of the the ofK. the the the ofK. the the the the the the the the the to. the th. I have th. I have th. I have th. I have of. I have th. I have th. I'm of. I have of. of. I of. I of. I'm th. I'm th. I th. I th. I th. th. th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I is is th. I is th. I is th. I is th. I is th. I is th. I is th. I is th. I is th. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. th. th. th. they. they. the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. the idea of JFK as like the last good Democrat is something that has persisted among Republicans even before Q&N, this idea of kind of this popular martyred president, and oh, isn't it terrible that, you know, LBJ in the 60s took being a Democrat into such an awful direction. So I think JFK himself still has a lot of resonance, and Q&O believers. So I think there's a lot of kind of like emotions tied up in all that.

When you look back on JFK conspiracies, does it seem quaint? Does it seem sort of like the initial modern conspiracy theory that Americans have sort of built a mythos around? I mean, I think, obviously, we've had conspiracy theories throughout American history, but the Kennedy assassination is such a sort of an epical one that, that, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, to thin, to, to to to thin, to thin, thin, thin, thin into conspiracy theories and is certainly, I think, the biggest and the richest one to dive into in modern history. It also sort of brings everything full circle, incorporating Kennedy. Q&D. Q&D.

Q&D. Q&T. Kn. Kn. theory, where you can sort of get whatever you want out of it. And so we see a lot of Kennedy conspiracy theoris drawn into it. I talked to a guy who was a really big Q&on leader, and he had for decades been just like a JFK crank. I mean, he was going to all these conventions, stuff like that.

And then Q&O arrives, and he says, oh, you know, I can sort of incorporate my tekenny beliefs, and sort to to that way. So I do think that's an aspect of it as well. It's interesting. I think what a lot of people miss is just how fun conspiracies are. They are engaging, especially if you're on a computer, one of the most fun things you can do is go down that rabbit hole and also come away with something that empowers you because you feel like you know something somebody else doesn't. I did a job down in Dallas a decade ago and I was walking through the grassy knoll multiple times right there there in Dillie Plaza and people would approach you and they would tell you things that you should know and shouldn't know.

And so there was it was like a cottage industry for a conspiracy theorist to give small little tours, take you to places that they tell you what happened and what they're not telling you, and it's easy to get wrapped up in that. You see the people starting to develop, you know, not only mindsets out of it, but it gives them importance. It gives them, in some cases, a job, but it makes them important in that little place. And I start to see to see their their their their their their their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, th. th. I, their, th. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, te.. te. te. te. te. te.e. te. te.e. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. their, their in that little place. And I start to see that pop up at some of these Trump rallies that I go to, seeing people who now own part of these little conspiracies, and they become many celebrities at these rallies that we see. In looking at this JFK Jr. coming back as part of,

there's been discussions of his reappearance, and there's been groups, one group called Negative 48 who has staged events waiting for his return. Can you tell us a little bit about negative 48? Sure, yes, so negative 48 is a group that is very convinced that JFK, not only JFK, JNRK himself and all sorts of sort of a bevy of other beloved deceased celebrities are, it's not that they're going to come back to life but they've sort of been in inclusion, they've been in hiding and that they're going to come back and sort of usher in this Q&on world. The reason they're called negative 48 is because they, this is kind of hard to explain

to somebody who's not really deep in it, but essentially they believe in this thing called Jamatria where theythey assign numerical values to letters and then they derive meaning from that. A equals one, B equals two, and so on. But essentially they would say like, Jordan Clepper, 20, trust the plan, 20, make America great again, 25, and they just sort of speak in this language that doesn't really make sense to anyone outside of it, but they see importance in these numbers and in these coincidences. And so from there, they essentially kind of whipped themselves up into believing these things like JFK Jr. is coming back. I found out what Jamatria was real quick.

One of the rallies I went to when a woman kind of walked me through this. She brought out a Jamatria calculator and started typing in my name, typing in Trump's name, and connecting all sorts of numbers. It was wild. It was real fun. You can kind of make anything make sense there. Type it in the calculator, you get these numbers. And so Michael Jackson's last concert was this is it, comes to 113. You know what that means?

So 113 means not true. So Michael Jackson, that wasn's was was was was was was was was that wasn's was that wasn's was that wasn's that wasn't that was that was that was that was th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. thi. It's thi. thiol-a' thiol-a' thiol-a' thiol-a. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. their their their their their their their their their their thi? It's thi? It's thi? It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. toeooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooeses. It's thi. It's thi. It's that means. So 1.13 means not true. So Michael Jackson, that wasn't his last concert. Then he's alive. It's not necessarily a conspiratorial thing, although it's used in that sense. It's, correct me if I'm wrong, it's essentially a mathematical way of turning letters into numbers. And religions have been using this for centuries,

just to try to find, to to derive, to derive, to derive find, try to derive meeting, trying to look deeper into biblical texts and what have you. And I thought that was a key component when I talked to this woman because the way she talked about Jamatrium, it was beyond this, this is a conspiracy, it's fun, I have power because I have knowledge, it was also I'm serving a biblical character. There's religion attached to this. I think that's where the real danger comes here, where you have people who are serving, serving religion and serving God through this fun little weird game that they play. And then deciding that Alia is going to appear alongside Michael Jackson and perhaps, JFK Jr., all at once. Like Bin Laden was Obama.

Clarify who's still alive. B the FKJJJJJ Jr. is still alive alive. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. is still still still still still still still still still still still still still still still to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. to thi. to to to thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the the the their. their. their. S. S. the the the the the the the the the thi. the the the thi. the thi. th Obama. Clarify who's still alive. Bid Laden? J.FK Jr. is still alive. JFK Jr. is still alive. Yes. I think JFK Jr. is going to try and expose globalists because they killed his father. We're talking about Tupac's coming back.

Robin Williams is coming back. Alia, as you mentioned, sort of pick your favorite celebrity. and so so what happened was these folks descended on Dallas where they thought there was going to be sort of the dead celebrities parade and they're milling around and they're seeing like a homeless guy and they're like, I think that's Robin Williams and so on. And a lot of these guys, I mean, look, I'm not sure these guys are super up on Tupac for example. And there's, I think that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's th's th's th's th's th's tho tho tho tho thu, thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thus thus thus thi, their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their thi.e. the. the. the. thea' thea' thea' thea' their their their their their their their their their the's Tupac you know all these guys I think that's biggie and it's sort of this you can see they're sort of going into this world where like nothing bad ever happens no no one ever dies of a drug overdose or a suicide the other thing I would add is that they think a lot of dead celebrities were murdered or when into hiding like JFK Jr. they were going to blow the their. their. I. I. I. I. I. I. Thank their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their their their their their their thk. thinked. thinked. thinked. thi. their their thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the. the. the. the. to. the. toe. to. to. they're. they're the. they're they're the. they're thi. thi. thi. the. think their deaths because they were going to blow the lid off the cabal. So like the the late DJ Avicie you know he faked his death all these

kind of people just you know Whitney Houston oh but they're all coming back at this big moment and you can see these people who have just particularly in this when they were kind of milling around Dallas for months just the amount of the amount of their own lives and their their their their their their their their their their their their own their own their own their own their own their own their own hearts their own hearts their own hearts. their own hearts. their own their own hearts. their own their own their own their. their own their own their own their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their their their their their their their th. th. th. th. th. th. their their th. their their th. th. their their th. their th. their their their their their the it, you know, they're just, you know, headed for a brick wall when eventually they realize none of it's happening. It's just predominantly white people who live in a bubble walking around Dallas thinking they see Tupac everywhere. It's, it's really, hey, that's Tupac. And you think that guy's Tupac and Biggie? They are, these are diametrically opposed on many levels, but I bet you're seeing it as the same person who's going into a subway.

Well, they would do these live streams where they would say, like, didn't y'all see that dead rapper? Like, they wouldn't know any names, you know, and they'd kind of have this game a telephone last week with Robin Williams in it. It was called Man of the Year. And guess what? They had election fraud back then. The machines that are switching to doing it electronically and they were counting wrong. Is this a documentary? No, it's just a movie. Are there any lessons we can take from Morkin Mindy? No. It should be pointed out? They've pointed to people, specifically JFK Jr. as there's been a man who's gone to multiple rallies, stands behind Donald Trump, and that's JFK Jr.

I went to CPAC, and I saw him there as well, and he's taken selfies, because he's also JFK so some people aren't just abstract apparitions. They are actually humans that they point to and say, you know, this is who you are. Yeah, I'm actually, I was just texting with him. So, so his name is Vincent Fusca and he is this like Trump super fan. In the lead up to, in the 2016 election, he had this van kind of fastened with Trump paraphernalia. And so he kind of ends up becoming because he's a big Trump fan, he's behind him at a lot of rallies. When the JFK Jr. stuff starts happening, and this guy I should say, looks nothing like JFK Jr. He dresses, he wears like a big fedora, he's very scruffy guy, he wears like a big suit coat. And so now...

To be clear, JFK Jr. was a stylish man. Yes. Yes, tha. Yes, thiiiii, that's that's th th th is, th is, th is, th is, thi thi thi thi thi th is, thi thi thi thi thi thi thi th thi thi th th th th th th th th th th. tho's thi tho- th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. It th. It looks looks looks looks looks looks looks looks th. It th. It th. It th. It th. It thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. It thi. It thi. It thi. It looks thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi him into the modern era not choosing to wear a fedora. Yes, yes, thank you. Yeah, maybe in the 90s, you know, but now no, I don't think so. Oh yeah, early, early swing day, big bad voodoo daddy, he would have had a fedora. There would have been a lot of college kids who wanted to look like JFK Jr. Who could pull off a fedora, but modern JFKJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ, to to. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. Yeah, thi. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, to, th. Yeah, to, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. Yeah, thi. no, no freaking way. No way. And so he's standing behind Trump and when the JFK Jr. stuff starts happening, people go, oh my gosh, I think that's JFK Jr. behind Trump.

And then there was like a blonde woman nearby and they said, I think that's JFK Jr's wife. And so they, I mean, they kind of get going, but He goes, oh who's to say? And so I've seen this guy maybe seven or eight times and he'll be out a rally or something and people go oh it's JFK Jr. you know we want pictures and then I say to him hey you want to tell me about how everyone thinks you're JFKJJUNU and he goes, oh I'd love to talk to you later and he goes oh I'd to to to to to th I I I'd th also I'd th th th th th tho th th tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho-I I'd tho-I I'd tho-I I'd tho-I tho-I tho-I I'll tho-I I'll tho-I I'll tho-I I'll thn, I'll thn' thn' th th th th th th tho he's tho he's tho he's tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho' tho' tho' tho' tho' to to' to to' told to thauuu-a' to tho' tho'a' tho' tho' tho' th up. I'm just so busy today. But I'm in town. You know, you have my number. Let's talk never gets back to me. I talked to this one woman who was like, I'll pose a for all these selfies. And I said, you know, that's not JFK Jr., right? And she's like, haven't you ever heard of visual effects? Haven't you ever heard of Medea. You know, it's they's. I. I. I. I. I. I. It's a smart move. And I give Vincent props. I tell you, if somebody stops me on the street and says, Joel McHale, I love you in community, I don't correct him.

Nope, that's, let them think that, let them live their own reality. As Americans, we have every right to live our own reality. I think it's in the Constitution somewhere, somewhere deep. Now there's a dark sight to some of this because I will say when I talk to the woman who was into Jamatrium and she was a part of this negative 48 group, they show up in Dallas, they wait in Dallas for JFK Jr. to arrive and then they stay there for months and months on end and there's stories of families who are losing loved ones to this conspiracy mindset and people are sending money to these, the l the leader the leader the leader the leader the leader the leader the leader the leader the leader the leader the leader the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the woome. I. I. I. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'ma. I'maq. I'maq. I'maq. I'ma. I'ma. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. losing loved ones to this conspiracy mindset and people are sending money to these, the leader, Protsman, I believe.

Like what are some of the dark sides of believing in these weird fantasies? Yeah, I mean, so, you know, Q&I have talked to so many people who have lost family and friends to Q&N and when you talk about something as extreme as negative 48 as sort of that faction? I mean, you're you t talking talk talk talk th you th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, throan, thi. I thi. I'm, throan, thi. I'm, th talking about people who have essentially given up their lives at this point. I mean, it's like they've joined kind of like a traveling commune or something. I mean, you know, they're staying in this hotel room for months at a time, which is not, you, you know, they're kind of pooling all their funds. At one point, you know, there are a a little, like, like, like, like, like, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're.. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're they're they're they're their. their. their. their. their their tr. tr. tode. they're kind kind they're kind they're kind they're kind they're kind they're kind they're kind they're kind. they're kind. they're kind.. And I talked to one guy whose wife had, he thought, he had a, you know, a totally

fine normal marriage, and then she just says, oh yeah, I'm going to go to this Trump rally. Well as it turned out she was going to join negative 48, and then just vanishes. And you know, he's seeing her in these videos, all this kind of stuff. I mean, it is really, really grim stuff. This is, that poor guy, you just, you see him at home, like, my wife, she left me for JFK Jr. It's, I get it, what a successful man, and he's been through a lot, you know, he's died, he's come back, he's living at this man, Vincent, he's trying to pull off Fed........ He's,

He's trying to pull off fedora's in modern times. It's difficult. Well, he's certainly, yeah, it's a bold decision. Yeah. I'm glad he's found love, but she's left me alone. We're gonna pause it right there. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Jordan Clepper Fingers, the conspiracy. I want to bring in Professor Joe Usensky, political scientists and conspiracy theory expert at the the the the they, they, they, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the, the, the, the, the, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, thi, thi, thi, thi, and, and, and, thi, thi, thi, to to to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. toe. toe. toe University of Miami who followed the JFK Junior gathering in Dallas. Joe, welcome. Thanks for having me. So Joe we got Will

Summer here we've been going down this JFK Junior wormhole, rabbit hole, whatever hole you want to call it, we're in it. You've looked at what's happening and what continues to happen in Dallas. From your perspective, what's going on down there? So you have people that probably have a bunch of psychological issues. Maybe they're prone to delusions. They're prone to believing things in spite of evidence. And that's what got them to this point.

And this is fanciful. It's fun for them. They're probably enjoying it. But it doesn't shock me to hear the things that Will is talking about. I mean, there are families. And I get emails from these families. You know, the son disappeared or one family, or one family got into a conspiracy theory, now they can't even talk to the person. And there isn't much I can say to these families other than I'm not that

kind of doctor. I mean, there's nothing I can do for this sort of stuff and I sympathize and empathize with them, but there isn't much you can do. What makes people predisposed to believe conspiracy theories in the first place? Why do they go and seek their their their their their their, their, their, th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, the, th-in-in-in-in', th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th, th, th. And, th, th, th, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thin, thin, thin, that, that, that, that, that, that, thin, that, that, that, that, that, thi. And, thi, theories in the first place. Why do they go and seek them out? Well, the answer is going to be a little bit unsatisfying, but this is where we are, and that is that some people more than others have a world view in which, you know, they go over to the window when they wake up in the morning, they look out and they see stuff, and they say, well, by a conspiracy, you know, being driven by people who I already don't like.

And the question becomes, well, where does that come from? And the answer is, we don't know yet. We just know that it exists, and we know that some people are just really prone to it. So it's not the beliefs themselves. It's not the ideas. It's that it's people that have a very thick set of lenses. So when they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they come they come they come they come they come their they come their they come their their their thick set of lenses. So when they come into contact with these ideas, it's just easy for them to say, yeah, that must be true. You know, America, it's not a new thing

to believe in conspiracy theories. It's not a new thing to have perhaps a warped sense of reality. We are the country that gave you the Salem witch trials. We're always looking for weird ways in which to perceive what's happening around us. How serious is the situation we're living in now? Is this an aberration? Is this something that social media has, one, created, or two, is just reflecting what's already been happening out there and we're blowing it into, or it's overblown our perspective on it?

Yeah, you know, I mean, look, as you said, I mean, conspiracy theories have been with us throughout American history. As going back to the witch trials, I mean, there's really rich history of it's sort of each kind of big pivot moment in the United States of a conspiracy theory is really abounding. At the same, which I think helps people with this kind of conspiratorial mindset connect with one another. The way I think of it is, if you think of like the Kennedy assassination, in order to find a like-minded people, you would have to maybe print a zine, send letters, go to a convention, stuff

like that, and then everyone on your block would be saying, like, you're a nut or whatever. Whereas now these people can just go online. their,, reinforce their beliefs and find new recruits really, really easily. The other thing I would say is, we've, at least I think in modern history, we haven't seen this kind of conspiratorial thinking embraced by so many politicians, to the point where we have members of Congress who believe in Q&O and have supported it. Recently, Donald Trump is posting really explicit pro QQuedon videos. So in that way, I think it really helps mainstream these conspiracy theories in a way that we haven't had before. I love thinking that in the old days, you at least had to learn how to produce a zine. Like, there's something to the stereotype of,

well, you had to cut out letters, and you actually had to build a board and connect it with a string here and there. connect it with the string here and there. And it's like, no, literally, there's a certain buy-in that that buys you. Now you can do this all online. You don't even have to go to Hobby Lobby to buy the shit. You can do it on the internet. The buy-in is so low. Joe, I wonder, where do you see the that much over time. If anything, we're believing conspiracy theories

as much as we did 10, 20, 30 years ago. What's different now is not just Trump, but particularly Trump and other people who want to do what Trump has done. So when you have people who can act on conspiracy theories with a monopoly of authoritative force, when you have people who already have large audiences because they're politicians transmitting these things, that's going to reach a lot of people and it's going to influence

a lot of people. Like any of us could go on to social media and spurt out whatever stupid conspiracy theory we want. It doesn't mean anyone's going to pay attention. It doesn't mean anyone's going to pay attention, right? It doesn't mean anyone's going to care or even look at it. But if Trump does it, that's a very different ballgame, right? And when you have people who have political power engaging in this, that's incredibly dangerous. And if you look back through history, the times where we have, you know, the worst episodes

of conspiracy theorizing, it's usually because of politicians getting involved and acting on it in some way. Is it possible to put these ideas back at a box? Can you roll this back? You know, I recently was out talking to people about the election, an election deniers. And so much is based on this idea of as soon as you have doubt and you see it through a lens of doubt and mistrust everywhere, it almost doesn't matter what's going to happen in the next election,

you're going to see it. It's going to be there. Are we already hardwired these brains to see and distrust so many things that there will not be a turning back, that even though somebody like Donald Trump might wield so much power and be able to direct it in certain ways, that we've sort of already infected a generation with this mindset. Well, there's already people who think that no matter what, right? After any election, there's about 20 to 30 percent of the country who think it was rigged.

Why? Because they lost. Right? So it's as in politics as in sports. Who complains after the football game? Now it's the losing team, right? So that's sort of normal after every election. What's abnormal right now is that you have the losing candidate saying it was rigged, I was cheated and going on and on and on about it, and pulling in the whole of the conservative media and lots of allies in Congress. So now you have sort of a full court press of people saying it's rigged, it's rigged. So that's why you have between 60 and 80 percent of Republicans saying 2020 was rigged against them rather than the normal 30, 40, 50% that might have otherwise

said it was rigged just for the fact that they lost. How close are we to having 60 or 8% of the GOP believe JFK Jr. is coming back? Is that weeks or months away? I think that would be a toub for a lot of influence. So if he got behind a conspiracy theory repeatedly for a long period of time, he could make people buy in. And if it's something like election fraud, he can pull that off because those ideas are always around.

But sometimes you'll come out with conspiracy theories that just don't influence anyone. I mean, I'm not aware of a lot of Ted Cruz's dad, Khrushk, trutruthers out there, even though he pushed that, you know, six or seven years ago. I mean, it just didn't take off. But I think if you go after ideas the people are sort of already inclined towards, I mean, he can do a lot of damage that way. Yeah.

I mean, I think we are all inclined to the idea of wanting Alia to be back in our lives again. We want another classic album. We want that redemption. I think that's on the cusp. If he even nudges us in that direction, I think we all buy tickets immediately to the next concert, whether or not she appears or not. I mean, we think that Q& on stuff is wacky and crazy, and where do people come up with these ideas, but I mean we lived through the 80s. I mean there was massive satanic panics during that time, Satan was everywhere, and even Oliver Stone's

JFK movie, which was, you know, a popular movie, was about the pedophile deep state going after the President of the United States. I mean Joe Peshe played the Defrocked Pedophile Priest. So even the basic idea behind Qan on is not new. I mean all of this stuff is recycled the stuff the stuff the stuff tha cicy cicy cycicy c. I the stuff th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, and it th, and it's th, and it's th, and it's thi, and it's thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and even even even even even even even even even even even even even even even th. And, and th. And, and th. And, and th. And, and th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. I thi. I tho. I thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, the basic idea behind Q&O is not new. I mean all of this stuff is recycled and rehashed and it's largely the same people believing the same stuff, sort of a choose-your-own adventure Mad Lib book that they're just replaying over and over again. I think Q&O has a political valence to it as well. Do you look at the pictures from January 6th, all the people who were there who were convinced that this was going to be kind of this big, like kind of fascist moment where the dreams were going to come true.

And certainly, I mean, I think it's unique in that it has achieved such mainstream prevalence within the Republican Party. I mean, we're talkingN is kind of an easy thing to talk about because you can kind of get a handle on it. It's people holding cues and stuff like that. But a lot of these ideas that are core to Q&N have become, or kind of swirling around the GOP and have become much more successful without the Q label attached. So we think about, for example, this idea And so we can see these things really being weaponized into policy in, in, I think, a really ominous way. I want to talk about how this is covered. You know, obviously there are elements of conspiracy theories that belong in the news, that

become news. What do you think the role of, role should be for journalists in coming to some of these fringe beliefs. Is it giving too much air to follow some of these JFK Jr. ideas and put them up on a pedestal so people can see those ideas and have that air out? Or what you're talking about right now, because this is affecting our culture? Do they need to be more vigilant and bring this to the forefront so we can engage with them, we can knock them down or at least be aware, be a a a a their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their so we can engage with them, we can knock them down, or at least be aware that they're out there. Sure, I mean, I think it's a complicated one. For me, you know, you certainly don't want to just go find a couple of nuts online and say,

like, oh, yeah, these guys are so crazy. For me, it's when it starts a bridge near the Hoover Dam. He had a bunch of guns. That was at the point where I was like, this is not just an online thing anymore. This is something where I have to trust my readers enough, both as an audience and as, you know, as citizens, that they deserve to know what's going on in the world. And, you know, I do think that Q stuff. You know, I think the cow is out of the barn. And I would add, in the case of JFK Jr. I mean, one of these, maybe he's kind of the evil JFK Jr. impersonator, there's another guy who's put together a coalition that is going, that has people running to control elections in battlegroundthink, really concrete impact on our lives unfortunately.

That was one of the details when I talked to the Jamatria woman. You know, what the talk of the rally at that point was not that this was just a person who believed this wild thing, but it was a person who was in Dallas who had a strong following on places like Telegram. And the talk was that they had a relationship with the Trump campaign. That a lot of these people from negative 48 were also setting up chairs and in the fact that they would show up and try to help the campaign get set up at the rallies, they would get certain VIP passes. And this is not just a fringe thing that exists outside some of the campaigns, in some ways, they're also working and coordinating within them.

It's becoming becoming the th be be thi thi thi the thi thi thi thi thi ththem. It's becoming folded into it. There is sort of this tension with the Trump campaign where they seem to see these people as what they are, which is huge Trump super fans, and Trump is kind of constantly signaling to the Q&OBon believers, but at the same time, they don't want the average person to see a bunch of Q&TTU stuff at the rallies and they're being told, you know, don't do that, what have you. But there's kind of this pull, this back and forth. And Trump doesn't understand it. It's so complicated.

It's so above him. There was some onion headline that I think nailed it that was essentially Trump half-assing his support of Q&D. Like, yeah, I guess the Democrats eat babies or whatever the hell it is you is is is is is is is is is is you is you is you is you is you is you is you is you th is you thiii. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thiolki. thi. thiolkiolknews. thiolknews. thi. thi. thiolknews. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. It's so thi. It's so thi. It's so thi. It's so thi. It's so thi. It's is so thi. It's is so. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's somea. It's somea. It's somea. It's somea. It's somea. It's somea. It's so th. It's so th. It's so th. It's so th. It's so th. It's so thi it is you guys think. Like, you can feel it like, if this makes you like me more, sure, but I can't even begin to wrap my head around what you guys think is going on. Joe, I'm wondering what you think the proper response from the media would be in covering these types of stories. That's a really tough question. I'll tell you, when I started studying the topicicetoomy tooomy tooomy too too too to study, I to study, I to study, I to study, I to study, to study, to study, to study, too, too, the topic, the topic, the topic, the topic, the topic, the topic, the topic, the topic, the the the the topic, their, their, their, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, they..e, today, today, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, they.e.e.e.e.a, they.a, they. started studying the topic about 15 years ago, there was barely any coverage of conspiracy theories in the mainstream news.

So I started a Google alert back then, so every night I would get all the articles that had the term conspiracy theory in it. And back then I was getting four or five articles a day and none on the weekends. And at the end of 2015, that had jumped to 100 every day. And just, this is anecdotal, but just for myself, I think I took close to 300 interviews in 2020 alone. So almost every journalist was calling me when they were writing about it, and they were all writing it about it.

And then I think what happened shortly after 2016 is that a lot of major news outlets started getting their own misinformation, conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy, their, their, their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and th. And, and th, and th, and th, and th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And, and th. And, and th. And, and th. And, and th. And, and th. And, and th, and th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And, and th. And, and thin, and thin, and thin, and thin, and thin, and thin, thin, thin, thin, th. And thin, thin, th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And then I think what happened shortly after 2016 is that a lot of major news outlets started getting their own misinformation, conspiracy theory, social media news desk. So they now have dedicated reporters just covering this topic. So it's going to continue to get a lot of attention. I don't know what the effect of the coverage is. I mean, I think that some things went wrong in 2020. I think there were a lot of journalists that had sort of a panic over conspiracy theories and misinformation, and the headlines sort of got into their own echo chamber, it was like,

Q was taking over the world and it's the biggest thing ever, and, you know, as I was polling on it, I was like, I'm just not getting these massive numbers. It's there, it exists, and they have a presence online. But I think Will was one of the few people who was in journalism, who was saying, you know, maybe it's not as big as some of the fantastic headlines are saying it is. So I think in some ways, you know, some of the sensationalistic reporting got ahead of itself. We'll be right back Will give us a little perspective here not only on the Q and on movement as to where it is now But even looking at something like this JFK junior theory the negative 48 group you know how big is it actually and how much of an effect? Does it have on the conversation? Yeah, sure so I've actually got I've got some polls right in front of me for just this moment.

So yeah, okay, so now these polls are a little out of date and Joe does some great polling on this and I think he has newer numbers. So, but the difficulty of nailing down Q&on belief is, there's a couple things. Number one, a lot of times people are going to say they may believe some of the tenets of it but they're not like on the forum saying you know where we go when we go all stuff like that at the same time we have to realize that at the end of 2020 Q basically told the fans the brand had become too damaged and to stop to saying QQQQ and just to sort of use the talking points and so there is going to be an the to to to to to the to to to the to to to the to to to the to their. their. their. I I I their. I think of people who were kind of downplaying it. There's a March 2021 poll of 5,000 people that found that 15% of them believe Satan Satan worshiping pedophiles run a global child sex operation. We got 2,000 people in January

2021 that found 15% believe that Trump was at war with these Hollywood pedophiles and now when you start asking about Q&on the numbers get a little lower you're talking to think 3 to 7% still we're thea thea thea thea thea thea tha tha tha tha th% tha tha th% th% percent. th. tha th. tha th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. their their th. th. th. th. th. their their their their their their 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So, they. So, they. So, they. So, they. So, they they they they they they. And th. th. I I I I I's th. th. th. th. th. I's th. I's th. tttf. tf. tf. tf. tf. tf. tf. tf. tf. tf. tf. tf. tf. tha. tf. tha. So, the numbers get a little lower. You're talking to like 3 to 7 percent, but still, we're talking about millions of people. That's more popular than some religions in the United States. So you know, don't shit on the Quakers. Don't shit on the Quakers. Why you got a shit on the Quakers? I know what you're getting at the Quakers. Don't come on to my podcast and make all this anti-Quaker attacks. I know. They had a hard time getting people into the whatever they call it, community room, but they're working hard on this, okay?

Exactly. Continue, but leave the Quakers out of your mouth. Just getting wrecked by Q&O and on. Yeah, they're getting blown out. So yeah, we start talking about that. At the same time, I mean, the JFK junior people are kind of a faction of that. And then we get down to the negative 48 group, which is smaller than that. So I would say negative 48, I think has tens of thousands of Telegram subscribers. I think when we think about hardcore fans, we're probably talking a couple thousand. thousand. you see, they're the hardcore fans, the people who show up at the events who are posting most of that information, but there's that secondary element too of when it just becomes a brand. I go to some of these events and I see people wearing Q-paraphanilia. Q's back!

And there's Q's shit everywhere. Yes, the online conspiracy following a mysterious character known as Q was more popular than ever. Is that a Q-Cue-Cue-I thu-I thu-I-I-I-I-I-s thu-s thu-s thu-s thu-s thu-s-s thu-s thu-s thu-s, thu-s, thu-s, thu-s, thu-s, thu-s, thu-s, thozymea-s, tho-s, tho-s, tho-s, th. I th. I th. I th. I thu-s, I thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu-s, I I I I thu-s, I thu-s, I thu-s, I thu-s, I thiii-s, I thi-s, I thi-a-s, thi-s, thi-s. I thii-s. I'm thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii-s, too-a-s, too-a-a-s. Is that a Q? Yeah. Are you a Q supporter? Certainly. Some people I taught you, they're worrying that just because they understand that it's trolling behavior. That it's a brand they can put on their body, it's going to piss off the media, it's going to get attention from the people they do know that it's something that they support in theory because in their mind the support is just trolling. Is that dangerous? Is that sort of a, is it the evolution of a conspiracy theory that when it just

becomes Pepsi that we're, we're in for a world to hurt? Where do you see that well, well we're sort of calling everything Q& on now, right? And if you go back to the idea that Q&N adopted a lot of ideas that pre-existed Q&N, then it's not quite as disturbing. So between 2019 and more recently, we're, depending on how you ask the question, if you're just doing direct questions, are you a believer in Q&O? Do you follow Q&O? We're getting between 5 and 12 percent, which makes it one of the least believed and followed things that I poll on. I mean, to put that in perspective, we just say, do you think there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy in 1963, we're getting between 50 and 60 percent. So Q&O and on isn't all that huge. But when Will's

exactly right, when we ask on these more general ideas, like our teachers grooming kids to become trans, are there satanic cults doing massive satanic rituals across the country, our elites running sex trafficking rings, we're getting between 20 and 35 percent. Now I wouldn't call those ideas Q-I-N-I mean Q, Q&O adopts them, but they could have existed decades ago. And some of those ideas sort of have their origin thousands of years ago. So they've been around, and I just don't want to attribute them to Q, because then it says like, oh, this guy was able to convince 30% of the country that elites are running sex trafficking rings when in fact those ideas you know might have been around well before that it's just we weren't paying attention. You know even back during the satanic panic of the 80s there were very few polls taken of how

many people were buying in to this idea of satanic cults running around and I've only found one poll and and it was of Texas so you have to you have to keep that in mind but it was 80% of people at the end of the 80s thought that you know one of the major problems in the country was satanic cults going around abusing people. So I don't know how well that might have been believed in some other state. You know, the today. But, that. their ta. the, their the their their their their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their their their their their their their their their their their their their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta're trying to poll on all these things and it's just we don't have good comparisons to the past. You know, one thing I would note there is that there's something unique about Q&on in comparison to some of these other conspiracy theories. If you're talking about like the thing of the Kennedy assassination was a conspiracy theory or the moon landing was fake. Well there's th. th. thi th. T th. T th. T th. T th. T the th. thi thus the the thus thus the the thus the thus thus thus thus the thus thus thus thus thus thus tho-a the I the. theat is the, the, the, the I the I would the I the I the I the I the I the I the I the I I the I I I I th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the is the is the. the. the. thoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. the. the. the. the. th the moon landing was fake. Well there's kind of not a lot you can personally do about it. In the case of Qa'n'on there's kind of this there's sort of a fascist utopia at the core of it and that there are places that we are going to go terrorize these satanic pedopiles. So there is kind of like a way that people can participate in it that I think it makes it it more more more more more more more more more more more more more more it more it more it more it more it more it more it more it more it more it more it more it more it more it more it more it more the the the th a tha tha tha the thea thea the. the. the. the. the. thi. thi. the. the. the. that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I is that I is that I is that I is that I is that I that I is th is th. th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is thi is the the thi. the thi is the the the is the is the the is the the the thea. the thea. the thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. the is the is the is, believing that, again, the mood-in-lating was fake or something like that. Yeah, I mean, it's a game.

There's a group identity, right? So a lot of people believe Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy, but they're not friends. They don't consider themselves to be part of a group or a movement, right? But Q& on, a lot of those people do. Like they're doing something they are they are they are they are they are doing something something something something something something something something something they are they are doing something something something. they are they are doing their. their. their. their. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. I. thi. thi. thi. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. It. They are thi. It. It is. It is. It is th. It is th. It's th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. So. So. they're following along, they're solving the clues, they're expecting an outcome in a shared way, and that's something that most conspiracy theories don't really have. And that's why Q&N's always been very hard to define, right? Because it's sort of cultish, but not really a cult. It's a group, but sort of decentralized. It's got a lot of conspiracy theories in it, so it's not just a conspiracy theory, and it's got sort of activities that people can do to sort of be a part of it and play along that other conspiracy theories just

don't have. I do love thinking of it like activities. It's like we get to get together, we get to solve why Tom Hanks is drinking baby blood. It's like just a bunch of little encyclopedia Browns running around America. It's funny you say that. I mean, they had a rally in D.C. and they said, you know, we're gonna kind of go on this excursion if you're interested to go protest and comment ping pong. So they have a whole itineraries. Well, before I let you go, part of the reason this podcast is, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, one, the the the the the the the the the the the the the their, their, the the reason, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the the their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, th. th. their. their. their. their. their, they their, their, their, the for me to wrap my head around some of the stuff that I've seen out there on the road. But, two, help me. What am I going to see out there on the road a couple months from now?

One, in regards to the JFK Junior conspiracy, how does that morph? And two, am I going to get a new Robin Williams movie out of all this? Yeah, you know, I think I think thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi to thr-I to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the, the, the, the, the the. the the the the. the the. the. the. the. too. too. too. to the JFK Jr. stuff is going to continue. I mean, I saw, and in particular, I think if Trump keeps engaging more with Q& on, I think we're going to see more people getting into Q&O and kind of see some fresh energy behind that. I once went to the kind of the Trumpian July 4th event, and all these women at the Trump hotel, theynayf. Junior shirts and this lady had a JFK Junior mask on her face and I said to her, you know,

what's that about? And she goes, he's alive and she kind of flitters away. So I mean, I don't think that energy is going anywhere. And you know, I think we get new conspiracy theories all the time. And so I think you know, you got the big one of like, what they say is I will not eat the bugs. And so I think you might get someone, you know, accost to you about that. So don't don't make them do it. I hate this. I hate this job so much. Dear Lord, Jordan, you might want to be on the lookout. I guess. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I guess. I I guess. I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I guess, I th. I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th. I th. I the, I the, I the, I the, I thi, I thi, you thi, you might thi, you might thi, thi, you might thi, thi, you might thi. thi. thi. thi. I thi, is that what it is? It's, uh... Joe, what do I have to look out for? So worse than that, I think the same reporter who was writing about the bug eating was also writing about forced anal swabbing. It's not just about testing for COVID, it's about humiliating

you in public. So if you walk down the street and they have like a government tent set up where they're sticking people with the cutips up the ass, that's going to be, that's going to be something come true, somebody's dark dream apparently. So this is, so I'm writing it down right now. I need to be aware of bug-gazi and bum-gazi. They're on the horizon. Thea-the. The. The. T-t, they're on. The. The. The. The. The. T, their-t, th. T, th. T, th. T, th. T, thahahah, thah, that, that, that, tho, that, thi. that, that, that, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi's is just just just just just just just thi's is just just thi's just thi's thi's just just just thi. thi. thiazi. They're on the horizon. Thank you, gentlemen. Well, Will, Joe, thanks for coming on the podcast. I'm going to go down to a Trump rally and a few. Do you guys want to come along? Is it? Might be a little intense for me. Fair it up. Fair enough. Well, thank you guys for joining me and helping me finger this conspiracy. Thank you. Thank you. Listen to Jordan Clepper fingers the conspiracy on the I-Heart Radio Applopatts, or

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