The Daily Show: Ears Edition - Jonathan Martin & Alex Burns - Behind the Scenes of Politics

Episode Date: May 19, 2022

New York Times reporters Jonathan Martin and Alex Burns discuss their reporting process for their book “This Will Not Pass,” share new audio of President Donald Trump and Senator Lindsey Graham, and explain why Jared Kushner got involved in Kanye West’s presidential run. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. Jonathan Martin and Alex Burns. I'm not even going. Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome. Welcome to the show. Everybody. Everybody. I'm not even going to waste any time. I trust that you are good. Let's jump straight into this. This is, the best way to describe this book for me is it's basically like the real housewives

of Washington, D.C. It makes it look like the most scandalous place. You realize there are so many inner feuds and things that we don't even know about. When I'm reading this book, I'm going, shouldn't the American, shouldn't the American American American American American American people people Like, why do they get the sanitized, like, oh, this is how we are? When, in fact, this seems like, it seems like this is what's deciding the country versus what the people are seeing on the news, but the people are voting on what they see in the news.

No, and I think there's not some clean separation between the personalities of politics and the fudes that you're talking about and the real housewife style drama and the policy of it, right? It's the personality and those feuds and all the sort of high school level pettiness that actually drives what happens and if people in Washington were more up front about that I think first of all they would confirm a whole lot of what the American people sort of suspect about their politicians. But secondly, you know, I think it would be possible maybe for the country to have more honest conversation about what's wrong here if we weren't all putting on a different face. But when the cameras are running, you see two very different kinds of politicians

than what you see behind the scenes in private but they don't know that, say, the audio is running. So this book exposes a lot. Let's talk about that, the audio. You know, I mean, one of the biggest bombshells from the book is the audio that you released, which was the audio of Kevin McCarthy after January 6th, basically saying, yet, we've got to make Trump pay for this, he's responsible, et cetera. Mitch McConnell essentially being like, oh, I hope he does get impeached. You're hearing things from politicians who said the complete opposite

when they were on camera. So how did you hear about it? Well, no, a lot of work, a lot of hours, a lot of talking to people at all levels of government, and even people outside of government. I mean, there's a perception among folks who read political journalism that it's this Hollywood idea where like somebody and sunglasses comes and like drops you a bag outside your house or like, and you

get the story of a lifetime. It ain't that. It's like a lot of work. It's a lot of shoe leather, it's a lot of time talking to people and hoping that you can piece things together to eventually get the full version of a story. And if I could just, you know, look, you had a little fun with us at the Correspondent Center. That's fair. We're big boys. We noticed. We noticed. We can take it. But the honest, the honest response to your line that night night. th. th. th. to th. to th. to th. th. to th. th. to th. the tho. tho. the tho. the tho. the the the the the the thoes. the the the the the thoe. thi. thi. thoe. their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. their. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. And, th. And, th. And, the. the. And, the. And, the. And, t. And, t. And, toooooooooooooooooooooe. And, te. And, toda. And, today. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, the honest, the honest response to your line that night is, look, if we were in a position to release that information, the second we got it, of course we would have done that. But part of the exercise of writing a book and part of why it's different from writing for a newspaper or producing a television show is that the people you're talking to, their sources, their sources you're working with, their sources, their to to be more, to work, their, to work, their, and to work, and their, and to work, and their, and their, and their sources, and their sources, and their sources, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, and sorosews, and soracea, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and sorassassassassassassassassassassassassassassassassassassassassass.........s, their, their, their, their.s.s.s, their.s, their, their their their their tha.s.s. their toea, soa, soa, soa, their their together. their, their, their, their, their that they're taking in real time, it is their personal views and recollections,

when they feel they're sharing it for history and not, you know, a show that's going to air in a couple hours from now. That is, that makes no sense to me because, I mean, it's not like, it's not like this is not like this. It's not like, this not like, this is, thhehehe. It's not like, th. It's not like, th. It's not like, th. It's not like, th. It's not like, th. It's not like, th. It's not like, th. It's not like, their, their, their, th. It's not like, their, their, their. It's not like, their. It's not like, their. It's not like, their. It's their. It's, their. It's, their. It's, their. It's, their. It's, their. It's, their. It's, their. It's, their. It's, their. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, their. Yeah, their. Yeah, their. Yeah, their. Yeah, their. their. their. their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their the politicians are like, well, this will never see the light of day in a year? It is, it is actually extraordinary and it's one of the things that I think, I mean, I think, these are the people running the country? When we were, I'm trying to, you know, when we were doing these interviews, you would see people sort of very sort of, you're, throwne, th......... This, th. This, th. This, th. This, th. This is, th. It, it, it, it, I, I, I, it, I's, it, it, it, I's, it, I's, it, it, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, I's. It's, I's, I's, I's, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It. It's. It. It. It. It. It, I, I, I, I, I. It. It. It. It. It. It. It, I, I. It. It. It, I. It. It. It. It. It, I. It. It. It. It. It. It's, I. It's, I. It's, I. It's, I. It's, I'm. It's, I'm. It's, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm. It's, I'm, I'm. It's, I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. This. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I. I. I May. I mean, let's talk about the, you know, some of the other stories. For instance, there's a part in the book. We actually have the audio here and we'll go to it real soon. There's a part of the book, where you're interviewing Donald Trump himself. Yes. All right?

There you are interviewing the man. And the middle of this interview, and in the truths, fellas, he just like sits there and like takes that call on his cell phone and it puts it on speaker so we can hear it. So we've actually got the audio let's let's let's play that call. And most importantly would you tell them one thing can Trump play golf, legitimately play golf? Okay so so listen. I thought it was all bullshit. So when we go play for the first time, you know, I've heard this, I've heard that. So we play in October's kind of rain.

He shot even far, that's a three-footer cup, the native push, and he would have been one under, but even for, playing by the rules of the dog. After that, it started helping with my game. He's a legitimate five, six, maybe more. If you don't believe you, go play with it. So here's the thing. For context for me, is this is the same Lindsay Graham, who after January 6th was bringing up the 25th amendment.

He was like, this is too much, we've gone too far. And then thrown th th th thu thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to thi. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. So, to the. And then Trump has him on the phone and he's just like dance for me. And this is April, this is three months later, too. So this is pretty, yeah. Is this, does this show us that the politicians are lying to the people or they're lying to Trump? That's a great question. That's a really good question.

Look, I, we all know that Lindsay Graham rode back to Donald Trump really fast, that his pronouncements on the night of January 6th had a very, very short expiration date on them. But I think just hearing in real time in front of us, this sort of dancing a monkey routine was really an extraordinary moment. I don't know that he's lying to anybody. I think that that he's he Lindsey he Lindsay he Lindsay he Lindsay he Lindsay he Lindsay he Lindsay he Lindsay he Lindsay he Lindsay he Lindsay he's he's he's he's that he's lying to anybody. I think Lindsay Graham genuinely believes that he is playing a vital role as a diplomat between the establishment of the Republican Party and Donald Trump. I'm not saying he's right. I just that's clearly how he's rationalizing it. Yeah. It puzzles even some of his colleagues but that he sort of you know is

trying to sort of stay in the arena and so he has to keep Trump on his good side and I think you know like you know obviously Lindsay Lindsay is pretty obviously aware of Donald Trump's liabilities and would admit that in private so I think like what's the old saying you can't be a BS or I think they kind they kind of both know that the other isn't totally on the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to be the the the the to be to be to be. the the to be. to be. to be. I to be. I'm to be. I'm. I'm to be. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I to be. I to be. I to be. I the to. I to. I the the the to. I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttry. tr. tr. tr. tr true. true. tr true. tr true. I'm. I tr tr true can't be a BS or I think they kind of both know that the other isn't totally on the level and so I guess it works right I mean not for the country you know it's just it seems yeah no it just it just seems like if you know if Donald Trump didn't have as many scandals as he did I feel like every single chapter in this book could have been its own book in a different presidency the great point I didn't know but like like the the the the the the the the the the the the th. the th. th. the the th. th. th. the th. th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I the th. I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. I's the the th. I'll the th. I'll th. I'll th. I'll th. I'll the. I'm the. I'll the the te. the the the the the the the old the old the old the old thea.o. I'll the the the the been its own book in a different time with a different presidency. Great point. I didn't know, but like there's a part in the book where you guys uncover the fact

that Jared Kushner is the person who got Kanye West, his campaign manager, and all of this was essentially a scheme to try and siphon black votes away from the Democrats. I'm like, in and of itself, that would be the bombshell of the day. And now it's just like, oh yeah, just one part of the book. Look, I think it's a great, I think it's a great episode of sort of political, you know, hijinks, right? But it's really revealing both of how desperate they were to try to mess with the basic electoral math of this election. I think it's also really revealing about how how how, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thea, thoing, tho, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thiolui, I's, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm thi, I'm thoomat, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I is is is is a thi.. It's, I is is is is a thi. It's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, is is is a tho, is a tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, to, tote... It's, toteatr. It's, tote. I tote. I totalle. I totall. I totalle. It's, totally. I'm t would be drawn to in this election, the notion that the way to get, to siphon black votes away from Joe Biden was to get this sort of screwball celebrity into the race and just, you know, of course those people will, you know, vote for him instead of the guy they know as the former two-term vice president.

That says a whole lot about the people who run in the country four four four four four four four four four four four with the Trump crowd, it's like a cartoon version of past presidents. You know, like the president's son-in-law, who, by the way, works in the White House, which is, okay, and then secondly, is basically running the country as a de facto senior advisor with no actual title beyond senior advisor. And he's also like running the campaign on the side, too. And running the campaign, he's trying to wire in a third party candidate who happens to be like a celebrity. He's doing all of this and ostensibly there's ethics rules that kind of exist in the White House.

But it makes a mockery of any sort of like political norms or tradition in America. That's a great way to put it. Because it feels like this book exposes in a really scary way, because it's revealing and it's shocking. But when you get to the end of the book, you go, man, America's in trouble. Because it feels like there is a facade that is being presented by Washington, D.C. It feels like there is definitely a game that's being played in the Capitol versus what everyday Americans are experiencing. And then the most important thing is it feels like the the their thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, it feels like thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, is, is, is, thi, is, is, thi, is, thi, thi... thi. thiiiiiiiiii.. thiiiiiii.. thi. thi. thi, is, is, is, is, is, the most important thing is it feels like the two-party system has failed because now it feels like Republicans aren't all with Trump, they play along to try and

keep their role, and then like Democrats aren't all together, but it feels like the things a sham, and by the time the American people find out that it really is a sham, it'll be too late. Well, one of the things that we hopehaphap ho hoopopopop that we hope that we hope that we hope that we hope that we hope that we hope that we hope that we hope that we hope that we hope that we hope that we hope that we hope that we hope that we hope tho tho tho deserve to know what a gigantic gap there is between the way their politicians behave in public and the things they say in private about policy, about each other, and even about the American people. So again, that's sort of the overarching journalistic exercise here. I'll tell you this. If you want it to get it out there, a book is a nice start, but if you really want people

to pay attention, you've got to make it into a TV show. Gentlemen, thank you so much for you. Thank you. Really a pleasure. From your lunch the God's airs. Thank you. Johnson and Alice's book. This will not possible.

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