The Daily Show: Ears Edition - Jordan Klepper on Trump Sizing Up VPs | Jonathan Haidt

Episode Date: May 7, 2024

Jordan Klepper tackles Trump's collection of gag-order violations and the ongoing ass-kissing pageant for his VP pick, which includes South Dakota Governor and puppy executioner Kristi Noem. Jordan and Josh Johnson unpack the beef between rappers Drake and Kendrick Lamar, and what world leaders can learn from this exchange. Also, Jonathan Haidt, a social psychologist and professor of ethical leadership at NYU, joins Jordan to discuss his latest best-selling book “The Anxious Generation.”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Ditch the other hiring sites and let zip recruiter find what you're looking for, the needle in the haystack. Four out of five employers who post on zip recruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free at this exclusive web address. Zip Recruiter.com slash zip. Again, that's zip recruiter.com. Zip recruiter, the smartest way to hire. Hey, everybody, John Stewart here. I am here to tell you about my new podcast. The Weekly Show. It's going to be coming out every Thursday. So exciting. You'll be saying to yourself, TGID. Thank God it's Thursday.

We're going to be talking about all the things that hopefully obsess you in the same way that they obsess me. The election. Economics. Earnings calls. What are they talking about on these earnings calls? We're going to be talking about ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches. And I know that I listed that fourth, but in importance it's probably second. I know you have a lot of options as far as

podcasts go, but how many of them come out on Thursday? I know you have a lot of options as far as podcasts go, but how many of them come out on Thursday? I mean, talk about innovative. Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart, wherever you get your podcast. You're listening to Comedy Central. From the most trusted journalists at Comedy Central, it's America's only source for news. This is the Daily Show the job, George Klepper. We got so much to talk about tonight. Donald Trump is looking for a new vice president. Kendrick and Drake are at war. And bring your dogs in the house at night because Christy Knoam is on the loose. So, weigh to today.

Donald Trump is looking for a new vice president. Kendrick and Drake are at war. And bring your dogs in the house at night because Christy Nome is on the loose. So let's get into headlines. Let's kick things off right here in New York City, where week three of the Donald Trump hush money trial kicked off with a stern warning for the defendant in chief. We just got that decision from the judge on whether or not Donald Trump has in fact violated his gag order again. And the judge has decided that yes, Donald Trump has now violated it for the 10th time. And he said going forward, if Donald Trump violates it again, he will consider jail time.

Oh! Whoa! Whoa! Oh! you've done it now, Donald. If you violate that gag order for an 11th time, the judge is gonna really consider jail time. I mean, he's strongly contemplating the possibility of consequences for your actions. Oh, just one more chance. Look, I get that no judge wants to throw a former president into the slammer, but Donald Trump has the mind of a toddler. If there's one thing a toddler understands,

it's that when mom and dad start counting like nine, nine and a half, nine in three quarters, the brat has already won. Whether Trump is thrown in jail for a few days over the gag order or or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, th, th, th, th, the th, th, the tho, the tho, the the tod, the toda, toda, tro, the tro, tro, the the the tro, tro, tro, tro, their, their, their, but, but, their, but, but, but, but, but, their, but, their, their, their, their, their, their, the the the the the the the the the tro, tro, tro, tro, tro, tr tr tr tr tr true, true, true, true, true, true, true, just just just just just just a true, true, true, true, true, true, true, true, true, true, true, true, true, true, three quarters, the brat has already won. Whether Trump is thrown in jail for a few days over the gag order or thrown in jail for a few years for the hush money scandal, he's still going to be the next president. So, let's get into the latest news in our ongoing news in our ongoing news and our ongoing news in our ongoing... Look at the polls everybody. Let's get into the latest news in our ongoing coverage of Indecision 2024.

Right now the presidential race is all about the Vip stakes and over the weekend everyone desperate to be Trump's running mate gathered in Marilago for a classic Trump beauty page. There are a lot of special gifts that are on Donald Trump's shortlist for VP and Donald Trump today at Merrillago during that fundraiser actually called a series of them up on stage and praise them. About Senator Tim Scott he said, as a surrogate, he's unbelievable. On Congressman Michael Waltz, a man that knows more about the military. When I want to know about the military, I call him. Christy Knoam, somebody that I love.

Senator Mike Lee, I love your haircut, and he's a good man too. Representative Hunt makes the best commercials. Congressman Byron Donald's, I like diversity. Diversity, as you would say, I like diversity. Wow. Wow. Subtle. Byron Donald's, I like, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like diversity. Wow. Subtle. Byron Donald, I like diversity. What a clever way to say that he's black and maybe French.

I don't know. Diversate sounds like the name of a stripper Trump once slept with. I have no evidence of that, of course. Maybe because he paid her that hush money. But some VP candidates are showing more hustle than others, like a lot of them denied the 2020 election results, but Senator Tim Scott was on TV this weekend pre-denying this year's election results. Will you commit to accepting the election results of 2024, bottom line? At the end of the day, the 47th President of the United States will be President Donald Trump,

and I'm excited to get back to low inflation, low unemployment, and high unemployment. Wait, wait, Senator, yes or no, will you accept the election results of 2024 no matter who wins? That is my statement. But, just yes or no. Will you accept the election results of 2024? I look forward to President Trump being the 47th president. But, Kristen you could ask him multiple times. But the American people, the American people will make the decision,

but I don't hear you committing... For president Trump, that's the clear. Yeah! I don't hear you committing... The decision will be for President Trump, that's the clear. Ah! This is how humiliating it is to be on Trump's team. Normal questions become trick questions. Do you accept the election results? Should you look directly into an eclipse? This is not a hard question.

It's like when the band comes out and says, are you ready to party? Just say yes and enjoy Imagine Dragons like a responsible adult. Come on. Of course. One of the top contenders for Trump's VP is South Dakota Governor Christie Nome. She's got Maga credentials, she's got executive experience, she's got Fox News Anchor Face.

If you ask me, the race is hers to lose. There's really nothing she could do to ruin her chances. A governor, thought to be a contender for Donald Trump's running mate this November, is responding to the backlash over a story in her new book. It's a story about shooting her puppy. Okay, maybe that might hurt her chances. I'm not a political expert, but I think if I had to give a politician advice, I would say the top thing is to not shoot your puppy.

The second top thing would be to not write about shooting your puppy. Look, let's give her the benefit of the doubt, maybe she has a good reason. In the book, Nome says she shot and killed her 14-month-old puppy named Cricket for bad behavior. Nome describes leading the 14-month-old dog to a gravel pit to be shot. After concluding, it was less than worthless, untrainable, and aggressive. As a mom I made a choice between protecting my children and protecting them from a dangerous animal that was killing livestock. No, I'm posting this response on X saying we love animals but tough decisions

like this happen all the time on a farm. That is not an excuse Chrissy you can't just go around executing puppies and say, well, that's life on a farm. It's a farm, not international waters. And for bad behavior, I mean, even Cruella DeVille is like, Jesus, at least I was making a coat. Was there really nothing else that could have been done with a misbehaving puppy? Training, medication.

I mean, worst case, send the dog to a nice family upstate. That's what my parents said they did with my dog when I was a kid. And he still sends me a birthday card every year. How cool is that? Now, Christy Nome's defense is that she had no choice because the dog was untrainable and a danger. Although if you read her book, the carnage doesn't stop there. You put it in a part of a chapter called Bad Day to Be a Goat. And then after you shot the dog, you quote,

realized another unpleasant job needed to be done. Walking back up to the yard, I spotted our Billy goat. What did the goat do? It sounds like she saw it, it was like, well, I can't leave any witnesses. She could have. She could have. Come on. She could have at least given the goat an opportunity to prove its loyalty. She could have at least given the goat an opportunity to prove its loyalty.

Like, here's the gun, you shoot the dog. Don't forget, nobody forced her to tell anybody these stories. These are the stories she chose to tell to seem tough for the MAGA base. In this book, by the way, was no going back supposed to be the title, or was that what her editor said when they read this section? Are you sure you want this in? There's no going back. What were the alternate titles? For God's sake, don't include this?

Not sure if you're kidding, L-O-L? Were you hacked? I don't know. And by the way, Noam is not letting up on this. In fact, not only is she willing to shoot her dog and goat, now she wants to shoot other dogs too. South Dakota Governor Christy Noam is not backing down, defending her decision to shoot her own dog. Now implying President Joe Biden's dog commander, which no longer lives in the White House

after several biting incidents should be put down. She reportedly writes, that thi the the the the their their their their their their their their, their, their, their, th. th. th. thi, thi, tho, thoom, thoom, thoom, thoom, thoom, thoom, thoom, thoom, is, is thoom, is, is, is, is, is, is, is thoom, is thoom, is thoom, is thoom, is thoom, thoom, thoom, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho.. I tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho be put down. She reportedly writes that the first thing she would do if she got to the White House is make sure Joe Biden's dog was nowhere on the grounds. Commander, say hello to cricket. Dear Lord, this woman has a taste for dog blood. It's like she thought all dogs go to heaven was a personal challenge. Why? Why? Why? Why is she going so hard on dog killing?

Can cats vote now? Did I miss that? For more on this, we go live to Christy Nomes Ranch with our own Michael Costa. Michael. Michael? Costa. Michael! Michael! Michael, how is Nomes team reacting to this story? They're not worried at all, Jordan. This story might upset the coastal elites, but Nomes people are confident that real Americans understand that this is just life on the farm. Phr. What was that a gunshot I just heard?

Yeah, it was city boy, you know? Where do you think your chicken comes from? It comes from blindfolding the birds, leading them into a gravel pit, giving them a last cigarette and shooting them in the back of the head. Also, you can stuff your face on 10 cent wing night. It's how we feed America. OK, yeah, I think we all understand that death is a part of our food system.

What's disturbing is how thoughtlessly Governor Noam treats her animals. Yeah, but Nome's team says that's a real advantage in politics. You want a leader who can make hard decisions about the budget without being preoccupied about whether the kids are going to be hungry because they don't get a school lunch. Ooh. I'm sorry. Was that a cow being choked? Oh, here we go. Reality check for you left coast soy boys, all right? This is how your state gets to the supermarket.

Do you think it magically falls from the sky, shrink-wrapped? No. Governor Christynome sneaks up behind each cow individually with a piece of piano wire and wraps it tightly around their neck saying shh let it happen let it happen it simple honest farm work Jordan okay I'll admit I have no idea what that sound was well if you got out of your

okay Okay, okay. Okay. I'll admit I have no idea what that sound was. Well, if you got out of your media bubble once in a while, you would know that pork is produced what an unsuspecting pig gets into his mid-sized sedan, starts it up and it explodes, but... Does Christy Nome get any thanks for rigging up the C4? Well, not from the New York City brunch crowd.

Okay, Michael, Mike, look, look, I don't accept this explanation. I think the average rural American treats their animals with more respect than Christy-Nome is saying they do. What was that? Oh, let me guess. You think your mailman meat just grows on true. I guess not. Michael Costa, everybody. When we come back, we find out who's winning the latest war in hip-hop, so don't go away. Finding great candidates to hire can be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. You might get a lot of resumes, but not enough candidates with the right skills or experience.

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day. Try it for free at this exclusive web address, Zip Recruiter. the sceprecruiter. the sysh-slas Zip Recruiter. The smartest way to hire. Hey everybody, John Stewart here. I am here to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. thoen, thoom. thoom, tho. thi. the, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, th, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. the thi. thi. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the the the the the the the the the the the the thee theee. the. the. the. I am here to tell you about my new podcast, the weekly show. It's going to be coming out every Thursday. So exciting. You'll be saying to yourself, TGID. Thank God it's Thursday. We're going to be talking about all the things that hopefully obsess you in the same way that they obsess me.

The election. Economics. Earnings calls. What are they talking about on these earnings calls? We're going to be talking about ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches. And I know that I listed that fourth, but in importance it's probably second. I know you have a lot of options as far as podcasts go, but how many of them come out on Thursday? I mean, talk about innovative. Listen to the Daily Show. You know, the news is so serious these days. What we could really use is a palette cleanser, like

a fun pop culture story. And luckily, there's some big news this weekend. A boy has the rap world been buzzing over the weekend. The internet on fire. Are you Team Drake or Team Kendrick Lamar? The feud is red hot. Both stars dropping several distraps over the weekend. Both stars gaining tens of millions of streams in the process. The beef has been ongoing for several years, quite frankly,

but it's reached a fever pitch right now. Ooh, a rock battle. It's a great way to showcase an MC's skills. I gotta say as a Michigan boy, I loved watching Eminem Slice and Dice's competitors. It's always, always a great time. In fact, I bet Drake is going to tease Kendabs about Drake being a Toronto Raptors fan. So, let the ribbing begin. In his distracts, Drake claims Kendrick abuses and cheats on his fiancé, while Kendrick accuses Drake of being a pedophile.

Oh! Oh! That got dark. We went from zero to Epstein in about one weekend. This beef is really out of control and it doesn't look like it's calming down anytime soon. Kendrick is probably in the studio right now trying to figure out something that rhymes with killed John Bidet Ramsey. So for more on this we go live out to the streets with our own Josh Johnson. Josh. Josh.

Who would you say is winning this beef? No, who would you say is winning this beef? Nope, pass, no thank you. I don't want to get dragged into this at all. All these dudes do is research and destroy. Apparently, this is short for dissertation, okay? And I don't need anybody looking me up and rapping about how I took my cousin to senior prom or that I pissed my bed until senior prom. I just want to do my job and rest my head in whatever safe house they got Jay Cole in. Okay. I mean, I see your point, this has got

to be one of the most brutal rap beefs in history. Well, hold on, let's not get crazy. I mean, remember how rap beefs used to be? I mean, remember Biggie and Tupac? There's a reason that the last time you saw Poc was in hologram form, all right? What's happening now is nothing compared to back then, because hip hopphs. In the 90s it was, I f-a, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I'm, I'm, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, th, th, th, th, th, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to to, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi.a, tha, togu. tha, togu. thi, thi, togu. togu. thi, thi, thi, f-ccc'd a girl, how about that? Now it's, I don't think you're emotionally available as a father and husband. Due to your general lack of vulnerability, which leaves me with no choice but to fuck a girl, how about that? Okay, okay, so you're saying as ugly as this is getting, at least it's not spilling into violence. Correct.

In fact, I wish all global conflicts were like hip hop beefs. The Middle East, Russia, Ukraine, instead of missiles, wouldn't you want to see Zilinski release a track saying Putin is on O'Zempic? Or that he learned Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu because he got Brazilian butt lift. Or that Putin's not black enough to say nigger? You know what I mean?

Or whatever the Russian version of that is? Yeah. You really think you could replace wars with rap, beefs? Absolutely. Forget abroad. Wouldn't the national anthem be hotter if it was a diss track against England? Like, no taxation without resumentation, that's already half a bar right there. Now you just need something like, you eat beans on toast like some broke ass hoes. Instead of shooting at Britain, the founding fathers should have been spitting out.

Oh, like in Hamilton. Not like that. Okay, yeah. Well, Josh, if everything being a rap battle de-escalate situations, why are you so afraid, why are you so afraid to just pick a side between Drake and Kendrick? Because you tell me all the time how you love Drake's music and he makes you feel safe to twark in the shower and how you like to pop ass to his beat, so it makes you feel like a bad bitch, I think you said. No, no, no, no, no, no, don't.

Well, thanks a lot, Jordan. You gave him plenty. Kendrick just dropped a song, and the cover art is me, is me, is me, is me, is, is, is, is, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to to pop, thanks a lot, Jordan. You gave them plenty. Kendrick just dropped a song, and the cover art is me slow dancing at senior prime. Oh my God, I gotta call my cousin. Josh Johnson, everyone. We come back, Jonathan Hike, will be joining me on the show, so don't go away.

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invite to apply message to personally reach out to your favorite candidates and encourage them to apply sooner. Ditch the other hiring sites and let Zip Recruiter find what you're looking for, the needle in the haystack. Four out of five employers who post on Zip Recruiter, thoanx the first day. Try it for free at this exclusive web address. Zip Recruiter.com slash zip.com. Zip Recruit, the smartest way to hire. Hey, everybody, John Stewart here. I am here to tell you about my new podcast. The Weekly Show. It's going to be coming out every Thursday. So exciting. You'll be saying to yourself, TGID, thank God it's Thursday. We're going to be talking about. All the things that hopefully obsess you in the same way that they obsess me. The election. Economics. Earnings calls. What are they talking about on these earnings calls? We're going to be talking about ingredient to

bread ratio on sandwiches. And I know that I listed that fourth, but in importance, it's probably second. I know you have a lot of options as far as podcasts go, but how many of them come out on Thursday? I mean, talk about innovative. Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart, wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back to the Daily Show. I guess tonight is a social psychologist who teaches ethical leadership at New York University. He's here to talk about his latest best-selling book, The Anxious Generation. Please welcome Jonathan Height. Jonathan Height. I see people walking all over Brooklyn holding this book.

It's talking about the Great Rewiring. Talk to me. What is the Great Rewiring? So, um, I see people walking all over Brooklyn holding this book. It's talking about the Great Rewiring. Talk to me. What is the great rewiring? So something happened to young people born after 1995. All of a sudden in the early 2010s,

their mental health collapsed, rates of anxiety and depression skyrocketed, self-harm is up like 150% for younger teen girls, suicide is up 50% percent. Something happened in the early 2010s. And my argument in the book is a tra-s, theeee, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, something the, something the, something the, something the, something thia, something thiolioli, something thi, something thi, something thi, something thi, something thi, something something something something something something something something something something something something, something, something, something, something, something, something, something, something, something th, something th, something th, something th, something th, something thi th, something th, something thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the, something the, suicide is up 50%. Something happened in the early 2010s. And my argument in the book is a tragedy in two acts. The first act is the loss of the play-based childhood. It's what anybody over 40 in this audience had. You were out with your friends after school. There was nobody supervising. You had to learn how to work out conflicts, how to face adversity. So that's what kids have had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had had their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. their. their their their. their the the the their. the the the the the the their the their their their their their their their theirseeneeaa. theirseena. theirseena. their their their teanananananan. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. thea. thea. thea. to face adversity. So that's what kids have had for hundreds of thousands of years. It's part of being a mammal. You play,

you develop skills. We began to crack down on that, to lock kids up in the 90s, to not let them out. So we're restricting what they most need, which is the 90s, which is the 90s through the 20s through the 20s, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, to to, to, to, to, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to, to to too, to to, to, to, to, to, to, their, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to to to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, too, to, too, too, too, too, too, to, to, and, and, to, and, and, to, theii, their, their, their, their, their, their, they, their, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, Then we get Act 2, which is the arrival of the phone-based childhood. And what that is, is in 2010, everybody had a flip phone. The iPhone had come out, but most teens had a flip phone. No front-facing camera, no social media on the phone, no high-speed data. And by 20, 2015, everyone's got all those other things. Now suddenly everyone has a smartphone, front-facing camera, high-speed internet, social media, especially Instagram on the phone, and almost like someone turned a

switch in 2013, girls in America and many of the countries suddenly become very anxious, depressed and self-harming. And so that's what the book is about. Something changed between 2010 and 2015, and I'm trying to explain what it is. You're saying, in Act 2, they introduce check-off cell phone. And we know what ends up happening after that. You look at sort of the adolescent brain.

How dumb and stupid is a 13-year-old brain? I I would say not dumb and stupid at all. I would say it's in the process of remodeling and it's right, it's still in the early phases. So we have, you know, children have a brain which is actually almost full size. By age six, the brain is almost full-size. I'll fact check that. I don't think that's right. Okay, continue. You must be right. Yeah, thank you. The rest of childhood is not about growth. It's about picking which neurons survive and which ones get eliminated. It's all about wiring up. And that happens slowly in childhood. But then, around age 11, 12 for girls, puberty starts a little later, a couple years

of boys, and you get this massive, quick rewiring of the brain to sort of lock down into an adult configuration. It starts more in the back of the brain. The prefrontal cortex is the last part to develop. And so around the age of 13, kids emotional areas are rewiring. They have the beginnings of sexual urges and lust. They're very emotional, passionate, but they don't have the self-control to say, no, I'm not going to spend a fifth hour on Tick-Tock I'm just going to keep going because I can't stop myself. And when does that stop because I'm looking for that happening soon. Like 47, 48? Like when does that part of my brain close off and I can put the phone down? Well in your case I really can't say but for most people... By the sequel I get it's 25 I'm when the front of cortex is done rewired. Okay, I'll tell you when that happened.

It's interesting how you're talking a lot about not only these phones come in and they change the way kids think and the way society thinks, but you talk about raising a child, an anti-fragile child. And you make some bold claims, one of which is right here you claim that this merry-go-round playground spinner is the greatest piece of playground equipment ever invented. Defend yourself. Okay. How is it not, what is it? What is better? I mean a teeter-totter? It's just a metaphor if you're up, you're down. you know it's just a metaphor of you're up, you're down. You know it's just, it's just, it's what's yours? What is it not a... What is better? I mean a teeter-totter, it's just a metaphor of you're up, you're down. You know, it's just, it's what life is all about, you know, work with somebody else, one's up, one's down,

there's no way to stay in the middle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The key... Okay. While I have no citati citations to prove my claim. The psychological thing I'm trying to get at there is thrills. This is something I talk a lot about in Chapter 3, that kids need to play, but they especially need to risk. Kids literally need to face risk.

If you don't give them risk, they'll find a way to get it. They'll climb up on walls. They'll climb the have some actual risk. And so yes, you're right, a swing, a teetrotrife. It's really big and you could come crashing down, there is risk. And that's good. Why you try to hurt these kids? Well, because you have to put kids in a situation where they can get hurt. Because only then do they learn how to not get hurt. And what we've done since the 90s is is is is is is is is is is is is is is is is is is is is is is is is is is is is th is th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th th th th th th thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. their their their their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their their thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the. the. to theeea. And to try. And, try. And, try. And, try. try. try. the. And the. And the. And the. And th in places that are so safe. There's no chance to get hurt, which means they don't learn how to not get hurt. The human program of evolution is kids face risk, they're a little scared, they have to be a little scared, they overcome it, and then they're more confident the next time around. And that's the path to adulthood. But we stopped that in to send you to universities like mine where you're coming in still not ready for independent living. Now you take that and then you also then fast forward to this modern era where kids are obsessed

with phones, they're on the internet, they're on social media sites. Is there an argument though that the anti-fragile way in which kids need to, it's not to pull this thing away, that they need to be exposed to the risk that the internet has. I mean, this is the world that they're going to be born into anyway. Shouldn't they be learning how to navigate that at an early age? Yeah. In theory, yes, but let's look at, say, sexuality. We want them to learn how to have sex. Does that mean we should give them running start at age. There their their their th. There th. There th. There th. There th. There th. There th. There th. There th. There th. There th. There th. There th. There thi. There thi. There thi. There the. T the, the, the, the. T thi. the, the, the, the, the, the, shouldn't thi, shouldn't thi, shouldn't thi, shouldn't thi, shouldn't thi, shouldn't thi, shouldn't thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the, shouldn't the. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. the. to be clear, I did not say that. This was not that. This is, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that, that was, yeah, theoretically, okay, yes, boy. Yeah, who, who in the virtual world. Isn't that contradictory? Not at all. Not at all. Kids, where mammals, kids need to be outplaying, rough housing, putting their arms around each other, touching out in nature.

This is the way a lot of us grew up. You play outside. And when you put kids in an environment where everything goes to their phone, as soon, as soon, as soon, as soon, as soon, as soon, as soon, as soon, as soon, as soon, as soon, as soon, as soon, as soon, as soon, as soon, as soon, as soon, as soon, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as their, as to, as to, as to, as to, as their, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to.. to, to, to, to, to, to, to to, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to the their, their, their, to their, that they're going to use that now the latest stats are around nine hours a day they're on their phone and a lot of them it's almost all the time because they're always checking that blocks out time in nature time with friends time with friends time with friends time with friends tii tiee tiee to thee thee and thee thee to thee the their to to their to their the to the their to their their to their the the to to to to to their the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their their their the their the their their. their their their the the the the the the the the the the the the that, I think, is why as soon as they moved on to social media and the boys on to multiplayer video games, they got so lonely. Loneliness surged along with depression and anxiety. It's interesting. You talk a little bit about in childhood discover mode versus defensive mode.

And even in a world of the arts, I did improv comedy forever and I think the mindset of that is a discovery mindset, right? And so you're constantly looking for something. It was interesting reading this in terms of how to raise a child and to put them in that open mindset, but it seems remarkably reflective of just how society feels right now. And I don't know if that's partially because of our connection to social media and the anxiety that is there.. But there. But there. But there. But there. But there. But there. But there. And there. And there. And their. And their. And their, their, their, their, their, their, the, the, the, thi, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, and I's, and somea, and somea, and so, and so, and so, and so, and so, and some, and some, and some, and some, and some. And some, their, their, their, their, their, they. And, they. And, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, they. And, they. And, theymea, theymea, they. And, they. And, they. And, they. And, their they. And, their their, their, their, social media and the anxiety that is there. But do you see parallels there as well that we are inadvertently too in defensive mode because of these devices that we have in our pockets and our hands? Well right now it does seem like everything is going to hell because it actually is. Oh, that's okay.

It's not just my phone telling me that. But it wasn't that way in 2012. So the fact that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that. But it wasn't that way. It wasn't that way. It wasn't that way in 2012. So the fact that this happened in so many countries at the same time, and a lot of people say, oh well, you know, the global financial crisis, that must be what it was. Like there were real economic difficulties. Yeah, that was 2008. Why do the numbers not begin going up until 2012, 2013, and to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to to th, th, th, and th, you can't make the claim that things were so terrible in Obama's second term compared to his first

that all of a sudden, teens, especially teen girls, suddenly fell off a cliff. That just doesn't work. So, you know, if this had all started in 2020, we could say, well, yeah, COVID and all the craziness that's going on. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. toda, toda, toda, toda, too, too, toda, too, today, today, today, toda, tha. tha. tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t. t. t. tod. tod. toda, toda. today. today. today, too. today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today,that's going on, but this started in 2012. There's no other explanation that anyone's proposed for why it happened in so many countries and hit girls the hardest. It was interesting, you have a chapter in here that looks at also faith. And I'm an atheist. I know you mentioned that you are an atheist as well, but you you speak to sort of this God-shaped whole, I think it's a blaze-past-ault, I, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thiioll, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thr-a, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thioluuuuuuuuu. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, their, thi, thi, thri, throoooiiiiiiiiiiiiii. thei. thei. throi. throoo, thi, thi I think it's a Blaze Pascal quote, God-shaped hold everybody's heart, and every human heart, right?

And that this lack of religion is something that is affecting childhood in a way. Again, as an atheist, I always have my dukes up when that comes about. You said you were once, so you earned yourself a pass. But this lack of religious institutions in this modern media landscape, how do you see that as something that's affecting like a childhood? So the way to think about this as an atheist without getting defensive is to say, good luck. No, I've been working on this professionally for many years. I finally got it down.

Let's see it. Okay. Just looking at it descriptively psychologically, religious people are a little happier than non-married people. Just's been true for a long time. Just as married people are happier than non-married people. On average, your mileage may vary, but people need to be tied in, locked in, in a community. I'm a big fan of Emil Durkheim, the sociologist is my favorite thinker of all time. When we're not tied in, locked in, we're free, but that's, and, and, and, and, that's, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, thii, thi, and, thi, and, to be, and, and, and, to be the the, to be, to be, and, and, and, to be, the the the the the the, the the the, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is the the the, is the, is the, the the the, the, the, the, the the the the the the the the the the their, their, their, they, they, they, they, to, toe's, toease, toease, toease, toease, toease, toease, toease, the toease, the the the the theyliiiii. locked in, we're free, but that doesn't make us happy. We don't have nothing to push against. We have no sense of meaning. It's like if you try to raise a plant, not in the ground, but just like up in the air, and it just can't be done.

And so religious kids are rooted in traditions, faith, rituals, community. They go to church every Sunday. The Jewish Jewish kids the Jewish kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids have Shabbat. They literally can't use electronics for a day. So they were always happier than the secular kids, but what happens after 2012, it's quite remarkable in all the graphs. The religious kids get a little more anxious and depressed. The secular kids get much more anxious and depressed. So what I'm saying is, especially if you're an atheist, you're going to have to work much harder, you're going to be much more intentional about rooting your kid in stable social relationships.

If you give him an iPad, then he graduates to a phone, and it's all this network, that network, that network, interacting with strangers and weirdos and bots and AIs. That's not a community. That's crazy making. It might just be easier to get them to believe in angels. Then, what, then, th th th th th take away the iPad? I was going to say that iPad is there. I do want to... You've written a lot of very interesting books. The book you wrote before this, the Cotillain of the American Mind. You co-wrote, sort of looked at safetyism, it looked at the college landscape, and now what we see on college campuses, these protests are breaking out. I wonder as somebody who looked closely at that and the ways in which students kind of move through it, what you see now on these campuses.

Yeah. So, you know, I don't want to comment on the substance of the protest. This is a complicated issue. I respect people on all sides. We all agree, on campus. We all agree, students have a right to protest, constitutionally protected. But two th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th tho th tho th tho tho tho tho tho tho the tho tho their tho thoes thoes the thoes thoes thoes their their their their their their their their thoes, thoes to to to to to to to to to to to their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their thuu. the. the. the. the. tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooes. tooes. tooes. tooes. toe. toe. to protest, constitutionally protected it. But two things I see going on is, one is the protest, and this is about Greg Lukianov, my co-author, first notice in 2014, that the shouting down of speakers, the activism on campus, that was really illiberal, and it was intimidating, and it was stopping people from speaking. It was based on arguments about fragility,

about my mental health, like, we can't let this person on campus because it'll be dangerous, it'll be harmful, speech is violence. So that's a new idea that comes in with Gen Z. Because they haven't been given an antifragile childhood, they've been given way too much therapy, they think everything is trauma. So we see that beginning in 2014, 201 And so the protesters now, I don't know the details, but like, you know, just one thing I read this morning, someone sent me a quote from a student at Harvard

where she was in the encampments and she said, if Harvard cares so goddamn much about my mental health, why don't they just divest and, you know, do all the things that we're demanding? Like, yeah, you should you know, Harvard, you do these, you do the w do they, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, you do their, where, where, you do their, you do their, you do their, you do their, you do their, you do their, you do their, you do their, you do their, their, you do their, you do their, you their, you their, you their, their, their, their, their, the their, their, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their, the the their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the their, the the the th. th. th. th th th th th th toean. th th th th thean. th th thean. th th thean. th That's something new and it's just not going to get them very far in political life going forward once they leave campus. I read this book, I want to do this right. How do I helicopter parent my child correctly? What are some tactical things I can take away from this? Well you just push them out of the helicopter. That's what it has. Sorry, learn how to fly, right? That's that anti-fragile of it all. For birds it works, I guess not for us. So the key thing to the solution, so even

though a lot of my books, a lot of my writing is very dark about, things are actually going to hell in a lot of ways. But this one, we can solve it in a year or two, because the reason it got so bad so quickly is that we're trapped in a, it was called a, it's a social trap, it's a collective action trap. The reason why we all feel we have to give our kid a smartphone by the time they're 10 is because because is because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because the the the the the their their their their their the you know, dad, I'm the only one, I'm being left out. So we're all, you know, we're all doing that. And the reason my students are spending so much time on Tick-Tock, they say is because, well,

everyone else is, and I have to keep up, I have to know what's happening. So we're all the book, there's a lot of suggestions, but four norms that will break these collective action traps. First, no smartphone before high school, just clear this out of the lives of elementary and middle school kids. Send them out, give them a flip phone, a dumb phone, a phone, a phone watch so you can text them, but don't give them the entire internet, including strangers all over the world who are trying to to to to to to to to thage.... thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just the the, the the the the thi. thi. thi. throooooo thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the thi. th world who are trying to get at them sexually. Like, this is just craziness. So no smartphone till high school. The second is no social media till 16. You know, the things that are sent around on social media, the things they're exposed to, like I just recently

learned about the video, a cat in the blender, which was popular while ago. I don't know that. So, you know, and this is just part of childhood. It's hardcore porn, animal cruelty, beheading videos. So, you know, let's just at least wait until they're 16 before they see that stuff. I was going to say, that's the appropriate age to watch a cat at a blender. Is that's 16? It's like, ah, you get to drive could actually all do together, because that's the key. If most of us do this, we solve the problem.

The third norm is phone-free schools. This is the most powerful one that we can do instantly. So if you're watching this and you have kids that go to a school that lets the kids keep the phone in the principal. No, to go, you know, I have videos, send them a video of my talks on phone-free schools. Every school needs to go phone-free by September. The phones are, they don't just make the kids anxious and lonely, they make them less intelligent. Test scores have been dropping around the world. Once the kids bring a phone in school, they're they're doing this, they're not listening to the teacher. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So to to to their to their to to their their their their their to their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their not their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their.. their their. their phone. their phone. their phone. their phone. the. thean. thean. thean. toean. thean. thean. thean. thean. their phone. their phone. their phone. their phone. their their the And then the fourth norm is far more independence, free play, and responsibility in the real world. We have to, so this is not just about, let's take away, take away.

It's, let's give them a real childhood. The kind of childhood that us older people, the kind that we look back on. So if we love our children, the best thing we can give them is a real human childhood. And if we do it together, we can get this done in the next year or two. I love it. Just give your kids some space, a beer and a bag of glass, and they should be okay. It's a fascinating read and an important one.

The Anxious Generation is available now. John to that high. We're going to take a quick break the election, economics, ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches. Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart wherever you get your podcast. That's our show for tonight. Now here it is, your moment of then. You know, when we learned last week, obviously, like all of you in her book, that she killed her puppy, you heard me say that was very, very sad. We find her comments from yesterday disturbing. We find them absurd. And here this is a country that loves dogs. Explore more shows from the Daily Show podcast universe by searching

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