The Daily Show: Ears Edition - Jordan Klepper’s Conversation with Charley Crockett I CP Time: Country Music and Black Folks

Episode Date: May 11, 2023

Jordan Klepper talks to singer and songwriter Charley Crockett about his life's journey, from singing in the New York City subway to opening for Willie Nelson, and shares how Bob Dylan got a co-writing credit on his latest album "The Man from Waco Redux."And Roy Wood Jr. takes a look back at how black artists have contributed to country music.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. My guest tonight is a critically acclaimed musician whose new album The Man from Waco Redux will be out on May 26th. Please welcome Charlie Crockett. Charlie Crockett. Uh, welcome to the show. I've been a big fan for quite some time. Uh, you look great by the way.

I feel, I feel like I dressed down. You got a cool ass hat. Does it, being a cool musician, is it ever exhausting to have to always look impressive? Do you ever want to just add them sandler it and just go cargo shorts? Well, my girl probably wishes I did that more often, you know. Yeah. You are, you have an amazing, you have, you your life is 11 country songs fit into one life, right? And part of that story includes New York City.

I know you came from Texas, spent some time in New Orleans, but some time busking in New York City Subways. Is that correct? You got it. I apologize if I ever ignored you. My bad. If I could go back in time, I'd fix that. But tell me with that, going from that experience to what you do now on the road, interacting with the audiences, what do you learn in a New York City subway. Well, I looked a little different back then, so I don't think you would have recognized me as the same man. I was definitely younger. And actually the first time I ever played in this city, it's about 15 years back in Central Park. I had hitchhacked up here and I knew a guy from South Florida who,

these Brazilian guys actually that I grew up with a little bit in Texas. And one of them had moved to Florida. And he had a buddy that was like up here working somewhere he lived in Spanish Harlem and I hitchhiked into town and they offered me a place him and his lady they offered me a place on their couch and they gave me like a week and so I just started wandering down around Manhattan and found myself in Central Park there and I'll spare you all the drama and trials and tribulations of those 15 years. But oh good, that's not good for TV.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, but back in September, but back in September, the first bridge I ever played underneath in Central Park, I played about a hundred yards from it. Just back this last September, up for Willie Nelson so I felt pretty good. I feel like there's a motif in a lot of your work about journey and I think a lot of your songs are about getting from point A to point B I think your life seems to have been sort of a journey around different parts in America. It's hard to even categorize some of your music. Would you call it folk, Americana, country? I think your life seems to have been sort of a journey around different parts in America.

It's hard to even categorize some of your music. Would you call it folk, Americana, country? Well, you know, I definitely learned how to stand behind my guitar and playing on street corners, working farm parties. Yeah, I don't even know what those are. Yeah, I'm not even, do I? Yeah, it's a hoe down at a farm. Yeah, I guess I could could could could could could could could could could could could could could could could could could could could could could could could could th I could th I could th I could th I could th. I could th. I could th. I could th. I could th. I could th. I could th. I could th. I could have th. I could have to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I the.a.a. I the. I to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the. what those are. Yeah, I don't even, do I? Yeah, it's a hoe down. It's a hoe down at a farm. Yeah, I guess I could have put it together.

There's context clues there. Yeah. Well, I ended up doing a lot of physical labor, like in rural areas, especially in the Pacific Northwest. It's kind of where I learned to get picked up on the highway. People are more likely, I guess, to make bad decisions and pick up hitchhackers out there. And the people that embraced me, to be really honest with you, it was back when, you know, Gonja was still completely illegal. And I found my way onto those kind of farms.

You know, that's what they meant by Big Rock, Canny Mountain. Is that what that was about? That's what they were talking about. Oh, you're destroying all my country illusions. Next thing you're going to tell me Willie Nelson is a pot smoker. Don't listen to Wayland Jennings. Okay, I will get into Wayland then. A lot of your music, it almost feels like you're writing songs up against the clock. Is that fair to say? Yeah, you know people ask me what my songs are about and I usually tell them

same thing, you know, two or three minutes. But then you don't fill them in whatsoever. Yeah, God damn it! With these people who don't know how to make heart, they just comment and I really need you fill in those holes. On this album, you referenced a songwriting credit with another man who came to New York, slept on some couches, found his way in the folk scene back in the 60s. Robert Zimmerman, aka Bob Dylan. How does Bob Dylan find his way on your album? Well, you know, I called Bob up and told him I wanted to finish his song and he, no, I've never met him before.

I was good then. That guy, not known for taking many phone calls. No, no. He definitely ain't picking up the phone to me. But actually, what had happened was as I was listening to these tapes they're called the Peckus Blues tapes and it was from me. he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, they, they, they, they, th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, I'd thi, I'd thi, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I th. No, I, I, I, I, I, I to these tapes of his. They're called the Pecos Blues tapes. And it was from, he scored an old Sam Peckinpah movie back in the early 70s called Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid. And he said it was, I think it's the only movie ever

kind of scored start to finish. And actually you can listen to those audio tapes. It's like a half of the songs, you're like, this is the last movie I ever work on. Whatever. And anyways, I was listening to those and I'd heard this song that was about Billy the Kid, Billy the Kid's life. You know, and there's a highway in between Austin and northern New Mexico that I've hitched down, driven my truck down, been on, the, the, the, to, the, to, and the, and to, and the, and the, and to, and the, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, the the, and I'm, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the the the they.e, so.e.e. And. Ande. Ande. Ande. And, somea. And, somea. And, uh, somea. And, so the theyy. And, uh, so the the the the the the the the the the down, walked down, driven my truck down, been on my bus, you know,

driving up and down for many years where they supposedly, Billy, the kid is buried, you know, and I think he was dead by the time he was 21 or 22, you know, and America's always been really fascinated with him. And I'd heard that Bob, you know, was fascinated by him. And the story was just really speaking to me, you know, it, the, the, the, the, the, tha, tha, tha, thi, thi, thi, thi, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, I, I, I, thin, thin, th th th th th thin, I's, I's, thin, th th th thin, th, th thin, thin, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. It. It. It. It. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's ridiculous. one's a Tom Turkey number two you know and a strange title but like Tom Turkey's kind of like a straw man or like a mark man I think in the old West is kind of what that would be and I just came up with this line because I was thinking about it was a people around here like to talk about you and I hope you like the legend you become I heard it said in truth of

consequences you couldn't be a day past 21 and I like that line and I think I think Bob liked it too because it's like you get you get enough into the public eye you know and you can start feeling like Billy the kid you know even if you ain't ever you know held a gun in your life you know I feel a lot like Billy the kid you know I was a the the the th the th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th the th th th th th the th the the th th th th the th the the the the the th the the the the the the the the to the the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the teeooo. teooooooo. te. te. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the Billy the Kid all the time, you know. I was afraid I would die early like Billy the Kid. It was a smoker, right? Is that what got him in the end? My history is spotting. Smoking guns. It's been very nice. The song you're going to perform for us today. It feels like it's somewhat of a, I know, I won't ask you to have to go into it because you're not going to give me a straight answer so i appreciate that but a little bit of a uh...

it looks at fame and i i do think in in in like i said before i know some of your music is about journeys getting to get into different places and you've you bust i know you've got record contracts you've left record contracts you've found your own way how much of it for you is it about getting to a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a their a their a their a their a their a their a to a to a to a to a to a to a to a to a to a to a to a to a to a to a to a to a of it for you is it about getting to some final place? Is there a success for you that will let you to forgive me, to hit your horse and say, giddy up or infril... Forgive me. I'm going to backtrack that.

He's from Michigan. I'm from Michigan. Is there, is success a landing spot or is it a journey for you? I've been doing this rambling piece that they've been working on in a Texas magazine for months. And actually when we were up here in New York with Willie Not too far back, this journalist was up here with me. And they'd interviewed everybody ever dealt with in the business for the most part and you know my first record deal I was discovered on our train here in Manhattan by a big part of the machine you know and so on a way I'd not the subway you're talking about the music machine yeah

okay okay okay okay good you know the machine I'm talking about I know okay the machine yes and the big dogs the the the the the music the the music the music the the music the the music the music the music the music the music the music the music the music the music the music the music the music the music the music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music. the music. the music. I'm the music. the music. I'm the music. the music music music. the music. the music. the music. the music. the music. the music. the music. the music. the m. the m. the m. the m. the m. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I'm. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the m. I'm. the music. the m. the music. the music. the music. the m. I'm. I'm. the the machine I'm talking about. I know okay the machine. Yes. And the big dogs. And so in a way I guess I did beat the game but you know the the deal that I dreamt of like you've heard many times before it never is what you want it to be. And so anyway they're doing this big piece on me now. And people know I've been doing a long time. I've got 13, 14 records. You know, I've made a habit of telling record executives to kiss my behind. Actually, last time I met up with one here in New York City, he asked me if I'd ever been here before. You know, I'm 39 years old.

I've been here hundreds of times. the street here for five th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, th, th, th, th. And, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, and I's, and I's, and I's, and I's thi, and I's thi, and I's thi, and I's thi, and so I's thi. And, thi. And so I's thi's thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. And, thi's thi. And, I've been here hundreds of times. Playing on the street here for five years. You know, but I felt like he didn't, you know, I think he knew I'd been here, you know, he's just messing with me. But, um, this journalist was saying that every, a couple of my old managers, you were going. You know, you knew you were going, you had this grand scheme. But I never did. You know, the reason that I started playing in public and on street corners in the first place was, this was a career of last resort. Hard luck and circumstances put me on street corners. I wouldn't be in this business if I'd had an easy way. And so there was no grand scheme to beat the game. The only, the only thing thiiii thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin the only thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing I the only the only the the thin thin the reason I thin. I thin. I the that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I I that I that I I that I I I that I th. I thin. I the reason I the reason I the reason I the reason I the the reason I would the the the the thin. I wouldn't be the th. I wouldn't the the. I wouldn't theeee. the. thee. the. I thee. I thee. I the. I the. I that I th. And so there was no grand scheme to beat the game.

The only thing I ever wanted to do was keep playing, you know, was, you know, I'm not a cowboy, I'm a cowboy singer, and I just want to keep singing my cowboy songs, and they might sound a little different than some of the old boys. And you're here with us today. The man from Waco rebats will be out on May 26. Thank you. Welcome to CP Time, the only show that's for the culture. Today, we will be discussing country music and black folks. A lot of people sounds like cheddar cheese on top of sesame chicken.

They don't go together well. And if you demand it at a Panda Express, you will be banned for life. Anyway, recently, a lot of people have been mesmerized by Low Nars X. He hit the top of the charts with his country song, Old Town Road. There's been a big debate on whether or not this song was rap or country. But if you ask me, it's country. The song mentions a tractor, and tractors are only in the country. In fact, the only time a rapper talks talks talk talk talks talks talks talks talks talks talks talks talks talks talks talks talks talks talk talks talks talk about ta ta ta ta ta ta ta ta that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's to to to to the to the the the tractor, and tractors are only in the country. In fact, the only time a rapper talks about John Deer is if he shot somebody named John Dear.

And even in that instance, you would call him Jay Deezie. I believe the reason that many people are adverse to calling this song Country is because they don't think black people can make that type of music. But if you look at the history books, there's been a long history of blacks in the genre. From the very beginning, when Leslie Riddle was discovered in Tennessee in the 1920s, to deford Bailey, the first country musician, Black or White, to play the grand old opera. And of course there's my great aunt, Roya Wood Jr. who made the smash hit

Don't Mind the Mustash featuring Jimmy Lightfield. But nobody did country music bigger than the legendary Charlie Pride. Charlie Pride put up 29 number one singles on the country music charts between 1966 and 1989. And if you're wondering how a black man could be a country music star in the 1960s, it's because talent overcomes racism. And also because most radio listeners didn't realize he was a black man. Charlie Pride must have been putting on that white voice. Black people keep that voice in their back pocket.

I use my white voice when debt collectors call me on the telephone because they give white people extra time. Oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't know my bill was due. Oh my goodness. And it's not just black men. The Pointer Sisters broke through in country music long before anyone knew them for their R&B hits. Their most memorable of achievements was at the 1975 Grammys, where they won best country

and western vocal performance. Still to this day, the only country Grammy won by black women. Now some say Beyonce should have won that award for that song Daddy's Lessons. But let's be honest, it seems that the country academy was not ready for that jelly. So thank you, Mr. Naus X. You are a reminder that black people are not limited by how they are perceived. And in fact, you've inspired me to enter the world of country music as well. Who did Bluefish can be the only person out here.

Darius Rucker in it. Cowboy Troy. I got a little something that I'd like to play for you all and strum a little note here. What? What? Duh! Guitar is a racist. But that's all the time we have for today.

I'm going with Junior. This has been CP time. Remember, we're for the culture. And anybody know how to fix this damn thing? I gotta give up the Daily Show Podcast Universe by searching the Daily Show, wherever you get your podcasts. Watch the Daily Show weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Fairmount Plus.

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