The Daily Show: Ears Edition - Legal Wizardry: The Trump-Giuliani "Scumbag Defense" | Ronan Farrow

Episode Date: May 8, 2018

An NHL player gets called out for licking opposing team members, Michael Kosta breaks down Rudy Giuliani's legal strategy for Trump, and Ronan Farrow discusses "War on Peace." Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. John Stewart here. unbeably exciting news. My new podcast, The Weekly Show. We're going to be talking about the election, economics, ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches. Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart, wherever you get your podcast. May 7, 2018.

From Comedy Central's World News Headquarters in New York, this is the show. Welcome to the Daily Show. I'm Trevor Noah, thank you so much for tuning in. You guys are fantastic. My guest tonight is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and the author of a new book about American diplomacy. Ronan Farrow is joining us everybody. Really smart guy. We're going to have a great conversation.

But first, we spend so much time talking about how President Trump is driving America crazy that we sometimes forget he drives the rest of the world crazy too. Two of the United States closest allies are expressing their anger and disappointment over recent comments made by President Trump. France is upset over claims the president made about the November 2015 terrorist attacks in Paris. They took their time and gunned them down one by one. Boom, come over here, boom.

And there are a lot of people in the UK who are angry about the president's claim that the country has a knifing or stabbing problem. They say it's as bad as a military war zone hospital, knives, knives, knives. You know not only is Trump a bad leader he would be the worst at movie sound effects. We'll just be like shower curtain open sound knives, knives, knives, water in background. And I honestly wish that bad sound effects were the worst thing happening here, but I get why the UK and France are so offended.

Trump was trivializing other countries' tragedies. Just imagine how people would feel if the president of France got up on stage and was like, and then the plane, the planes flew into the towers. Wee, boo, come over here, aeroplane, we boo. Like, it felt less like a presidential speech and more like a bad comic previewing his one-man's show murders around the world. That's what it felt like. And in Australia, it's boomerang, boomerang, boomerang. In Russia, it's poison, poison, poison.

In Africa, AIDS, AIDS, AIDS. Mospito comes, then boom, Ebola, folks. No good. In Poland, they have submarines, but they build them with screen doors. So many drownings. It's a tragedy, it's a on now to some news in the sports world. The NHL playoffs are underway and there's a bit of a scandal going on. Think of the worst behavior you can imagine by a hockey player.

I bet you it wasn't this. The Boston Bruins Brad Marchand was warned by the NHL on his own coach, not to lick the faces of any more of his opponents. He's had his tongue out for much of the series against the NHL on his own coach not to lick the faces of any more of his opponents. He's had his tongue out for much of the series against the lightning, but it didn't help. Ew. How long is his tongue? Like, how are you doing that? I mean, yes, I know it's disgusting, but in his defense if fighting is a normal part of the sport, how do you take it to the next level, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, to, like, like, like, like, like, like, to, to, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, to, to, I know it's disgusting, but in his defense, if fighting is a normal part of the sport, how do you take it to the next level?

Right? Yeah, because in hockey you punch a guy and he's like, whatever, man, it's Monday. You lick a guy and he's scarred for life. I don't want to talk about it. So the bad news is that this player got a call from DJ Khalid's wife. But let's get to the big news of the weekend. While Donald Glover was looking for his shirts in an airplane hanger, the opposite of Donald Glover, Rudy Giuliani, was looking to redeem himself from last week's fiasco.

Now, remember, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani is now also Donald Trump's new lawyer. And in his debut last week, he revealed for the first time that Trump was involved in the late 2016 hush money payment to Stormy Daniels. Despite Trump always having denied he knew about it. And the next morning, Trump tweeted in support of Giuliani's statement, but then Giuliani, his big reveal was that he didn't get the response that he and his new boss were hoping for. Did he create more legal problems to the president, more legal problems for Michael Cohn? Is there a strategy here? Now I'm left scratching my head saying, what are they doing?

What the heck? He didn't know, he didn't know? I love Rudy, but they better have an explanation for that. That's a, that's a problem. It was shocking. It's a murder suicide. Damn. That is the most brutal review I've heard since Mike Pence saw Wonder Woman. The only thing I'm wondering about this woman is where her husband is. Two thumbs down. So everyone from Fox to MSNBC agreed. Juliani's story was a disaster, right? Only he had done was get the president in more campaign violation trouble. So Trump broke out a special move that he usually reserves just for his golf game, a do-over.

Rudy is a great guy, but he just started a day ago, but he really has his heart into it, he's working hard, he's learning the subject matter. Ah, he'll get his facts straight. He's a into it, he's working hard, he's learning the subject matter. He'll get his facts straight. He's a great guy. You know, it's so weird to hear Trump defending someone the way we normally hear other people defending him. He's still learning, he's new at the job. That's, you know, he's still getting used to it. That's not how you describe a high-price lawyer. That's how you defend a kid, that's how you defend a We're getting rudier tutor, folks. Give him a chance.

He's a good kid, and he already knows all his shapes. Give him a chance, folks. So, as a Friday, that was the new plan. Throw away everything Giuliani said last week, because he doesn't know what he's talking about. And you could see why Trump likes Giuliani, because Saturday, he went back on TV to throw himself under the bus. Did you misspeak, or did people not interpret what you were saying?

The facts, I'm still learning. This is, you know, 1.2 million documents. I've been in the case for two weeks, virtually one day in comparison to other people. So I'm not an expert on the law law law, the law, and the law, and the law, and the law, and the law, and the law, and the law, and the law, and the law, and the law, and the law, and the law, and the law, and tho, and tho, and tho, I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, the, thi, thi, thi, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to tho, thoomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomomom, th. th. the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the is thr., thr., the is the is the is the is the is the is toe is toe is toe, toe, th I'm not an expert on the facts yet. I'm getting there. But I am an expert on the law, and the fact is there is no way this is a campaign finance violation of any kind. Okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

You can't have it both ways. Giuliani says he's new and he doesn't know the facts, but then he also says for a fact, Trump didn't break any laws. You can't do that. It's like a detective walking into a crime scene and immediately saying, I don't know what happened here, but I'm going to say he's innocent. All right, let's go get lunch, let's do it. Oh, shit, who killed that guy? Oh, murder mystery. So on Saturday, Fox News was willing to forgive and forget, which was great for Giuliani. Unfortunately on ABC on Sunday There's a very short man with a very long memory who asked Giuliani a simple question

That led to an amazing response So the president did know about this after the campaign Can't say that I mean at some point yes, but it could have been recently it could have been a while back Those are the facts that we're still working on and that you know maybe in a little bit of dispute this is more rumor than it is anything. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. that's thi. that's that's th. thi. thi. that's that's that. that. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. that's thi. that's that's th. th. that's the. th. the. the. the. the. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th are the facts that we're still working on and that, you know, maybe in a little bit of dispute, this is more rumor than it is anything else. Well, that's what you said. You said that to BuzzFeed. But here's the, well, yeah, I mean, that's one of the possibilities and one of the rumors. The reality is...you stated it as fact. Well maybe I did, but right now, right, I, I, I'm learning, and I can only, I can't prove

that, I can just say it's rumor. I could prove it's rumor, but I can't prove it's fact. I feel like I just smoked weed through the TV. Giuliani is in an interview telling us that we shouldn't listen to what he says in interviews. And I don't know if I'm confused or if he's confused, but I guess fortunately he cleared it up immediately. He's confused. As a matter of fact, on Hannity and BuzzFeed, you talk to the Washington Post about it. I don't know, how do you separate fact and opinion? I don't know how you separate fact and opinion?

I don't know how you separate fact and opinion. That's pretty basic, but I guess in a way he has a point. I mean, see, like my opinion is that Giuliani is bat boy after he grew up. But that could also be a fact, so who knows? Who knows? Now, at this point, Giuliani's defense strategy just seems to be dismantle reality. But really, it fits into the whole idea that Trump and his people have always been playing with. Fiction versus facts. Facts, or anything that doesn't

help Trump isn't a fact. Yeah. As Trump's lawyer, this is going to be Giuliani's challenge, because they haven't figured out yet what version of events won't get Trump into tr facts. Yeah. As Trump's lawyer, this is going to be Giuliani's challenge because they haven't figured out yet what version of events won't get Trump into trouble. Yeah, once they figure that out, that's when they'll start calling things facts. And this is a tactic we can all understand. It's like when a cop pulls you over and they ask you how fast you are going and then you try to figure out the speed limit. You're like, uh, officer, I was going, uh, 55 miles an hour. It's like, oh, that's 10 miles fast. And foot before I went, 45 miles an hour. You didn't let me finish, yeah, yeah.

Well, you said you were going 55. No, that was a rumor. This is a fact. I just started driving a week ago. I'm very new at this. This is all very new for me. I don't th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th tho, I don't tho, I don't tho, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't that that th. I don't th. I don't th. I don't tho, I tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I th. I th. I th. I'm th. I'm thi. thi. I'm thi. thi. thi. thi. I'm thi. I'm to thee. to to too. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. tho. tho. th't know how any of this works, Officer. And look, I completely understand this strategy, but you have to admit, it makes these guys look super guilty right now. And I'm not on Trump's legal team, but I have some advice.

Giuliani, I know you're still learning the facts, but until you get them settled, maybe take a page from DJ Carnid and stop using your mouth for a while. We'll be right back. Hey everybody, John Stewart here. I am here to tell you about my new podcast, The Weekly Show, coming out every Thursday. We're going to be talking about the election, earnings calls. What are they talking about on these earnings calls? We're gonna be talking about ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches.

I know you have a lot of options as far as podcasts go, but how many of them come out on Thursday. Listen to the Daily Show. Obviously, Rudy Giuliani had a terrible weekend from a PR perspective, but legally speaking, how will this affect President Donald Trump? For the answer, we turn to our senior legal correspondent, Michael Costa, everybody. Michael Costa, everybody. Michael, um, do you think the president regrets bringing Giuliani onto the team? Because I mean, this feels like a total mess.

Oh, yeah, maybe to you, you sweet, dimpled Simpleton. But to a trained lawyer like myself, Rudy Giuliani is a legal wizard and this is his fantasia. Okay, first of all, you are not a lawyer. Oh, really? Well, then how come every judge in this city knows me on a first name basis? Because you don't pay your parking tickets. Ah, wrong again. It's because I don't pay child support. Now, here's how I know Rudy is a genius.

Before he showed up, the facts in But now, thanks to Rudy, what do we know? We know the president didn't pay Cohen to pay Daniels, except he did, but from a general legal fund, which didn't exist, unless it does. Either way, the president didn't know about it, other than the parts he knew, which was nothing. And clearly, no campaign finance laws were broken because Trump was going to pay Stormy Daniels or not, regardless of the election, in this massive, tiny payment was Trump change that also made her rich. You can trust Rudy on that because he's an expert on campaign finance, even though he knows nothing because he just started on the case like an hour ago.

What? Yeah, exactly. No one knows what's going on, which means reasonable doubt. Case dismissed, huh? Everybody head back to the judge's chambers for Sangria and Chips. No, no, no, don't, don't encourage him. Michael, hold on. Muddying the waters might work in the press, but it actually doesn't work in a court of law. How is Rudy Giuliani going to convince a judge that Trump didn't illegally pale Stormy Daniels? Don't you worry, Rudy's got an airtight defense. The agreement with Michael Cohen, as far as I know, is a long-standing agreement. That Michael Cohen takes care of situations like this, then gets paid for them sometimes. So did Michael Cohen make payments to other women for the president?

I have no knowledge of that, but I would think if it was necessary, yes. Okay, wait, wait, wait, how does that help? I mean, all Rudy said was that the president might regularly pay women to be silenced about affairs. Exactly. It's what we, near the legal profession, called the scumbag defense. The scumbag defense? The scumbag defense, otherwise known as pleading the 69th, up top. Oh, come on. 69th up top. I'm not high-fiving you. What is the scumbag defense? You see, paying off

Stormy Daniels is only illegal if Trump did it to help his campaign. But if Trump was paying hush money to women all the time, then it wouldn't be for the campaign. It's just a reoccurring expense he barely pays attention to, like a cable bill or child support. Wow. So, the bigger a cheating scumbag trump is, the less likely it is that this hush money broke any laws. Bingo. Let me break it down to you this way. You see, on this chart, not a chart.

So on this chart, here shows there are two spheres of the scumbag. So here's innocence, and over here is being a scumsssk, a scumumumumumumum.A scum.A sc-a sc-a, thia, thia, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. So, th. So, th. So, th. So, th. So, th. So, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. So, thi. So, thi. So, thi. So, thi. So, thi. So, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. they. their, their their their their, thi. their, their, their, thi. So, thi of the scumbag defense. So here's innocence and over here is being a scumbag. Now normally they don't overlap but now Giuliani has inserted Trump right here and this is his comfort zone and he can bounce back and forth between these two with total freedom. Innocent, scumbag. Innocent, scumbag. And he can get right in the middle there and just be perfect. Blubbblah! Justice, Trevor. Justice. And that's why Rudy is a genius.

All he has to do is prove to a jury that Donald Trump is a bad person. And there's not a jury in the world that would rule against that. Case dismiss. Michael Costa, everybody. We'll be right back. Welcome back to the dinner show. My guest tonight is a Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist who writes for the New Yorker and is the author of the new book War on Peace, the end of diplomacy and the decline of American influence. Please welcome, Ronan Farrow.

Hello. Welcome to the show. A pleasure to be here. You are an overachiever in the journalistic world. So many people talk about all the stories that you are breaking. I mean, the Welcome to the show. A pleasure to be here. You are an overachiever in the journalistic world. So many people talk about all the stories that you're breaking. I mean, the Me Too Movement was broken by your story. Like, I mean, it's what sparked a movement. Well, there were very brave women who were sources. There were great activists who preceded that, but I'm honored to have been a conduit for some of those stories. They were toehehehehehehehehehea, to, to, to, to, to, the, their, their, their, their, their, to, their, their, their, toe, their, their, too, too, to, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their stories, their stories, their stories, their stories, their stories, their stories, their stories, their stories, their stories, their stories, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, th. th. th. thi. thi. too, too, too, too, too, too, too, their, too, their, their, their,ough to tell. They were tough to tell for the women involved.

They were also tough for you to tell as a journalist. Like we read all these stories about Harvey Weinstein and these people that he was hiring. Were you ever afraid? Is that a point where you goisticals are the future, guys. But it is true. You know, look, there was intimidation. There was a system designed to shut down these stories, and that affected not just me, but a whole range of brave journalists going up against this thing. And sure, like the moment when you find yourself sort of deciding, do I go home tonight because I'm getting staked out,

and like if I do go home to to go home home home home home home home home home home home, the to to go, the bed and play back the shower curtain it's like okay either I'm crazy or actually the story is stranger than fiction and as it turns out what we were able to break is he was hiring you know former Mossot agents combat ready operatives that were in fact following people around using false identities. The news that you just broke today is a story of how the Trump administration was secretly hiring an Israeli team of spies to dig up dirt on people who worked on the Iran deal. Is that correct? In fact, the same Israeli spies from a firm called Black Cube.

The same as the Harvey Weinstein hired. And in some cases using the same false identities and front companies that I heard from when I was getting stocked by these guys. Wait, so explain to me just a little bit of the detail. So they were hiring these people not to undermine the deal itself, but to undermine the people who put the deal together. Why? So that's the surprising part of this. These are policy wonks.

These are Obama advisors. And we don't thk, th't have all the answers yet, but sources close to this and documents that we obtained at the New Yorker show very clearly there was a seemingly political in focus operation designed to smear them, seemingly all connected to their work on the 2015 Iran deal. It's interesting because this sounds less like a story you would hear in a first world country or a country that claims to be pro-democracy than you would in a country that's totalitarian.

You talk about this in the book, War and Peace. The end of diplomacy and the decline of American influence, it really speaks to, in a way, what's happening with the Iran deal. It seems like Trump and his people do not care about the diplomacy that America conducts in the world. It's now just become war or no to to to to to to to the war to be a their their their their their their their thiiii. thi. thiole. thi. thiole. thi. thiole. thiole. thiole. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, t. And, to. And, te. And, te. And, te. And, te. And, toke. And, toke. And, toke. And, tha. And, toke. And, toke conducts in the world. It's now just become war or no war, talking or no talking. Why do you think that's happened? Yeah, these stories all connect. Look, these are individuals fighting desperately

to save a deal because they believe if we unilaterally as a nation back out of the Iran deal. For all its imperfections, it's worked in its narrow goal of them for a time. And if we back out, their fear is it drives a wedge between us and our allies and it potentially sends a message to North Korea and other rogue states that we don't want to be sending, that they shouldn't come to the table. And as you suggest, this is all connected. They are getting smeared and intimidated. It's in a context, as I outline and war. on peace, where the profession is endangered, where people who make our deals and negotiate, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is a, and, is a. their, is, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is. And, is. the, is. the, is. the, is, is. And, is a.a, is a.a, is a.a, is a.a, is a.a, is a. the, is a. the, is a. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the around the world that don't involve going in guns blazing, they are under attack. They are getting fired on mass. People don't understand what they do anymore. And more and more that work is being outsourced to the military, to our spies, to the intelligence community.

That's interesting because you spoke to every living Secretary of State, and you spoke about how America's diplomacy has been on the decline. This isn't something that started with Trump, but it may be accelerating now. Is this a sustainable way to conduct oneself in the world, where it is military first, diplomacy second? Well, what I chronicle in war on peace is, in place

after place, when we sabotage opportunities for political settlements and peaceful ways out, and we go in shooting first, it really comes back to haunt us, Trevor. Again and again, we see situations where we end up lying down with warlords and strong men and unsavory characters, and then we have no leverage over them, because we have fired all of the diplomats who could negotiate and play hardball in that way.

And if you look th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th could negotiate and play hardball in that way. Right. And if you look at the current situation, there are countries where America doesn't have a diplomat right now, there are countries where there is no one handling that high-level negotiation. What happens in that case? Yeah, so you're exactly right. This is happening to a new extreme right now. Donald Trump has unceremoniously fired basically, you know, ambassadors across the world, assistant secretaries that run some of the most sensitive regions in the world. So we have an understaffed, unmanned diplomatic operation. There is precedent for this before. We've seen other administrations, democratic and republican sort of sideline diplomats and see how disaster it is.

But this is new in terms of what an extreme it is. And when you look at the consequences, we see situations where there are are are are are are are are are are are are are there are their their their their their their their their their their their their, their, their, their, their, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, and thi, and, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, and, and, th, and, and, th, and, and, and, and, and, and, th. And, and, and, and, th. And, and, and, th. And, and, and, th. And, th. And, th. And, and, th. And, th. And, thi, thi, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, theou, theou, theou, theoueoueoueoueoueou-s. And, the the theoueou-s. theoueou-s. And, theou-s. And, and when you look at the consequences we see situations where there are active opportunities to make peace and we just give them up. We see situations where you could bring people to the table potentially and spare brave servicemen and women going into the line of fire and we give those up. It's a real problem and I'd also point out for people who kind to think about those high-level talks these are also also the people that screen dangerous interlopers from coming into the United States. Right, right, right. That stamp your passports that save you if you're kidnapped abroad. You know, this is unglomerate's work, but it's life-saving. It's life-saving, it's integral and it's currently crumbling. It's a fascinating book. thanks. to you. to you. to you. to you. to you. to to to to th. thiii. thi. thi. thi. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. tha. tha. tha. tha' tha' thatea' thatease. th. th. th. th. th. tha-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-s. tha-s. tha-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a. th. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. much for being on the show. A pleasure to be. I appreciate it. Ron Peace is available now.

Ron and Farrant, everybody. Thank you. The Daily Show with Trevor Noaer, Ears Edition. Watch the Daily Show weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central and the Comedy Central app. Watch full episodes and videos at the Daily Show.com and follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram for exclusive content and more. This has been a Comedy Central podcast. John Stewart here. Unbelievably exciting news. My new podcast, The Weekly Show. We're going to be talking about the election, economics, ingredient to bread

ratio on sandwiches. Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart wherever you get your podcast.