The Daily Show: Ears Edition - "Peanuts," Franklin and Representation in Cartoons - Beyond the Scenes

Episode Date: November 26, 2021

"JumpStart" comic creator, Robb Armstrong, discusses the impact of the Black "Peanuts" character Franklin with Roy Wood Jr. and The Daily Show writer Josh Johnson. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This is the podcast where we dig a little deeper into segments that have already aired on the Daily Show at Trevor Noah. Like you already got the segment, but now we get to give you a little extra gravy, just a little extra on the side. It's like when you watch a Marvel movie and then Samuel L. Jackson appear at the end and you get a little extra movie after the credit. That's what we are we are, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, the, the, the, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. This, th. This, th. This, th. This, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. This is thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, then Samuel L. Jackson appeared at the end and you get a little extra movie after the credit. That's what we are. We're the after, beyond the credit scenes of the Daily Show.

I'm Roywood Jr. Today we're going to be talking about a piece that aired in 2018, a piece that celebrated the 50th anniversary of the introduction of Franklin, the first black character ever in the Peanuts comic strip. Let's give them a little sample. Newspaper Franklin was great. You can't argue that. But when they put them on TV, it was a different story. All of a sudden, they made them a stereotype. You do the hokey-poke and you turn yourself around.

That's what it's all about. It's all about. It's all about our talking stuff from technique in your shoes. We're the team invincible and we're not going to lose. Why couldn't Franklin just do the hokey-poke each other? Roy, anyway, like I hear what you're saying, but I liked having Franklin on the screen. I think it's important for kids to be able to see a version of themselves. Okay, cool. So if that's the case, the cartoon should honor the original revolutionary spirit of Franklin.

If you're gonna make them rap, do it right. This is America. Don't get you slipping now. With me today to discuss this piece, this segment, it's inception, two guests. First one is an Emmy nominated writer and a stand-up comedian, writer for the Daily Show. I guess I should add that too, since we're going beyond the scenes.

Josh Johnson, how are you doing today, sir? I'm doing well, you know, I can't complain. How's your side hustle of delivering soothing voicemails to strangers for a dollar a pop? That's a nice microphone you got over the book. Oh thanks I've made one dollar. Just getting one dough. Other guests the voice you just heard is that of cartoonist and creator of the jumpstar at comic strip and he has a book coming out. We're gonna talk about that a little later in the pot. Rob Armstrong welcome to be on the scenes. Thanks for having me. This is very exciting, man.

Now, Rob, I want to start with you. And let's, I'm going to just take you back to a little young Roywood, Jr. I didn't see a lot of representation, as the old people call it, the funny pages. You know, I read, you know, comic strips going up, you know, I was a Garfield guy, I was a Calvin and Hobbs, I pretty much own most everything that Bill Watterson put out, and then for a quick minute I was reading the Phantom, then my mama saw it and didn't like it, and so then she started like literally cut out certain comic strips that wasn't allowed to read. Like a lot of kids I did read Peanuts. Although I will say, just as an aside in terms of black characters,

I appreciated Heathcliff over Garfield because Heathcliff for sure was a thi, even if he wasn't a black cat he was for sure a thug. He was out there whooping ass and fighting dogs. Yeah, Heathcliff was, he was a hard scrapping cat man. Don't beat Garfield. He was a thugged., man. Don't beat around the bush. He was thug-like. Heathcliff would beat Garfield's ass. All right, so as a cartoonist, I know that you are very familiar with the history of your craft. Can you run us through the history of how Franklin was introduced in the peanut strip?

Yeah, man. Well, first of all, I want to just say that a lot of press has been given to Franklin and into Schultz obviously because of Franklin but Mori Turner, I don't know if you guys got We Pals in your local paper growing up? No, what's that? We Pals is the first syndicated comic strip by a black person in the country and it was launched in 1965. The guy who created We Pals, his name was Mori Turner. His strip, We Pals, wasn't as widely syndicated. He was in hundreds of newspapers, but Schultz and Peanuts was in thousands of newspapers. They were both in my Philadelphia bulletin as a child and both had enormous impact on me.

In 1968, Morrie was in a game for three years. He was in, this is not meant to be funny. He was in 10 newspapers in a whole country, 17, somewhere around there. Like, compared to Peanuts, non-existent. When the cities were smoldering after Dr. King's assassination, Mori was in hot demand. Suddenly he was in 50 newspapers, 75, his phone wouldn't stop ringing. 100 newspapers, 200 newspapers.

Like it was a year to change his life. And he always felt weird that Dr. King had to die. For that to happen, you guys, I feel the exact same way because of George Floyd. Like suddenly, a lot of things, including this podcast, happened after George Floyd. Although this isn't directly like there are people literally calling me after the verdict. The newspaper in Minneapolis added Jump Start after the verdict. Hey, buddy, what's up with that Jump Start thing? As an ally, we sure would love to, we'll make a little, we'll move Marmaduke over a couple of inches

and make space for you. Dude, 32 years in the game, that's exactly what happened. I felt it was surreal. I've been around for a long time. So Franklin, that same year, in 1968, was introduced into the Peanuts cast on July 31st. Right after King got assassinated, a letter shows up. introduced into the Peanuts cast on July 31st. Right after King got assassinated, a letter shows up in Charles, shows his office from this woman, a Jewish woman named Harriet Glickman.

It was around like mid-Apr like the 15th or so. And of course King died on the 44th. And he gets this letter saying, you have this huge platform, you can do something about this because you have the voice and the platform that people pay attention to, you should add a black character and he ignored it, you know. We just kindly said, I don't think that would be a good idea, but she kept pressing. She sent them another letter and then she sent them another letter. There were a few letters in before he he came out and said, if I did something like that, it might come off as condescending.

But by then she had told so many of her black friends, I met Harry, she's a fearless, theory. This is the OG tweeter. She was writing to me. She's so O.G. She contacted so many black people that she's a little Jewish lady, it was so funny. I'm mad at her, I said, oh my gosh, I thought you were black.

Um, she got other people to say the same thing. So when he listened to these people, you know, frankly just appeared like out of no way. So he just did it. And the syndicate said, uh, yeah, we're not running these. Shultz was my friend and I called him Sparky. So if you hear me calling this guy Sparky, forgive me, I'm being very familiar, Sparky said, okay, well I quit. Whenever I hear people say, I saw that Thanksgiving, uh, BS man, he, he must have been a racist. A, he's my friend, I happen to know BS man. He must have been a racist and all that.

A, he's my friend. I happen to know he's not a racist. But there aren't many people, black or white, that are willing to throw away a seven figure career like that. He said, really? Not running now? Franklin, I'm done. And they said, oh, no, we didn't mean that. That's the, you know, we're going to run them. And he, hey man, he did what Sinatra did for Sammy. Oh, we, strong. He can't come in here.

Yeah, he can't come in here and play with us. He can't come in the front door. We ain't performing. Sinatra was crazy, like, really? We're out of here. one one is all right it's not too bad yeah that's a spot on we almost messed up the money impression like wait wait a little that quick so Josh when we talk about inclusion and representation you know that's always the conversation today we need black characters and TV and we need to see my black faces on the TV. As you all were putting this piece together, how difficult was it to try and maintain the balance of sprinkling in this awareness that this character really did change the face of representation for black youth while also found a couple jokes in there along the way. I feel like any time something is insane in a bad way, anytime something is unacceptable in

a bad way, there is something funny about that. You know what I mean? So it's like the same way that it's crazy that it took so long for there to be a black character and it just be normal, it's like that is also funny. It's funny because it's wild, you know, and so I think that that's where the jokes come from because on one hand you're like, wow, this is, this is, we're a little late. If you, if you think about how long we all have been around each other and our kids have been playing together, everything like that, we're a little late but then also I think that you you want to just kind like you said convey that this is a big deal so I know it's not I know it's not

a big deal now we've got like half of HBO is black now and like you know all all these all these shows are just like so there's they're so black that like you have cousins now who are on the show and you're like you you don't even act and it's like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like. the their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that. that's like. that's like. that's that's that's that's that's that's th. that's th. th. th. th. thi. th. th. th. th. th.'re like, you don't even act. And it's like, yeah, but they needed somebody. So yeah, I hopped on. Like, there's that much, but you have to take it back a few decades to where it's like there was nothing. And even some of the representation we see now, whether it's Asian or Black, it's like, it's an overwhelming amount happening quickly recently. It's not as as as as th as not as th as not as th as th as th as th as th as th as th as th as th as th as th as th as th as th as th as th as th as thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thi. thoom, that, that, thi. thoomoomoom. to be to be to be to be to be to be to have, to have, to have, to be, to to to to to to they, they, they, they, they, to to they. to to to you, to to to you, to to, to to to to, to too, the thu. thu. the the thoomu. the the thoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooomuuu. thoooooooo I think that those are the main mindset you have to keep in mind when you write for pieces like this where you have to put it in context to the time and you

also have to acknowledge that yeah this is like a wild thing. It is as messed up as it is it is funny that the world could be that messed up. So Rob, to your point earlier about Mr. Schultz having complete autonomy over the creative of his comic strip and choosing to put a black character in this comic strip, I would imagine that he didn't have like, there was no diversity and inclusion board to run your black characters by. There was no, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't imagine that comic books have the same focus group type level of detail before something is released to the public the way a television show or the way a movie is. What do you think Schultz got right and where do you think some places where the representation could have been, I don't want to say a little bit better But it was a step in the right direction, but what what else do you wish that you could have seen from the first black comic strip character or was Franklin's

the ball rolling? Well Roy I saw what you guys did to my boy Franklin on his 50th he was He was he tell me how we had him sitting alone of all the clips of Franklin, we found the one where he's sitting on the Thanksgiving special. By himself, I'm sorry. I just don't want him to be the other kid all the time. Even at Thanksgiving, yeah, they invited him, but look where they didn't put him. He's by himself. Even the dog gets to sit with the kids. Why is the dog even at the damn the damn the damn the damn the damn the damn the damn the damn the damn the damn the damn the damn the dog gets to sit with the kids. Why's the dog even at the damn table? It's cool though Franklin.

Franklin, look ma'am, Franklin, they did you a favor. You don't want none of that bland-ass white people turkey anyone. They ain't putting no sprinkles on it. You know they don't season the food right. You all have Thanksgiving in Africa. You all have that break dancing. I don't know where. I'm like, where do they, like, what kind of research team finds that? Oh, indeed. Oh, they go beyond.

Boom-box. It was every time with this kid. Anytime you walk down the street in Peanutsville, you might run into Franklin when this home boy pop-walking. And even when he's hanging out with his friends, everyone else gets gets a the the thes thes thes thes thes thes thes thes thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks th. thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thinks thanks. I thanks. I's thanks. thanks. thanks. thanks. thanks. thanks. thanks. thanks. thanks. thanks. they're thanks. thanks no, not Franklin. He got to slap skin. See what I mean? All the other peanuts are just kids, but Franklin's running around Peanutville like a damn baby shaft. He's a tiny, bad mother.

Shut your mouth. I'm talking about Franklin. Okay, so. The TV's different. We're ta. Just take us back to 68. It's very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very. Sp sp sp sp sp spa. the th. th. th. th. th. th. to th. to th. th. to th. tooen. tooen. tooen. tooen. tooen. tooen. thi. tooen. tooen. tooen. toa. toa. toa. toa. toa. the the the the the the the the the the the tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. the the th. th. the th. the th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. thea. thea............................................take us back to 68. Very different. It's very different. Sparky had very little to do with TV. He actually trusted two men, Bill Melendez and Lee Mendelssohn.

Those two men are responsible for his television success. All those Christmas specials and all that. Great pumpkin special. The great pumpkin, okay, yeah. was tenuous because the world was so tense. You guys, it was just a crazy time. I'm a little older than almost everybody I meet nowadays. And 1968 in America was just awful. And the same year that Dr. King was assassinated.

He got murdered in April. In July, July 1st, the time, that Dr. King was assassinated. He got murdered in April. In July, July 1st, my brother, Billy, who was a wild boy, my brother was seven years older than I. And he was just a wild kid. My mom had a single mom, and she had a hard time with Billy. Anyway, he went out and was horsing around with his friends. We live right near the subway. It was elevated above the street like in Chicago.

We just hear it rumbling all day and night. My mom hated it. She was kind of forced to live where we lived and didn't have any way of getting out of that situation. And she was haunted by the subway, the sound of it. And she feared Billy would be killed on it one day because him as friends was so dude these guys they could jump to turn style get through those doors before the guy had a chant anyway she sent them downtown and said listen I don't want you hoarsing around I know you

need a pair sneakers here's money for your car fare we call it the car fare to get on the subway. Don't jump on it, don't play around. I'm serious. He says, okay, mom, I won't. He was walking through the doors. It's on July 1st, 1968, one of his friends hocked a luggie into the engineer's face as he poked his head out, out, and one of my friend, my brother, my brother's buddies, He booked his head out to check for passengers clearance, put his head out.

And one of my friend, my brother's buddies, hocked one. And he realed backward and shut the door, wham with that crank. Bam! And my brother was only halfway in, and he got torn in half. That was July 1st, when July 31st, Franklin was introduced. You guys, there's a very good chance. I would not have this career. If this dude didn't show up, to cheer me up, the same month that happened.

The same month that happened. I just loved seeing him. If you want to ask me what Schultz did right, he listened that happened. I just loved seeing him. If you want to ask me what Schultz did right, he listened to somebody. Do you have a perfect landing? Did he stick the landing? I mean, you know, come on man, he didn't know anything about his whole trepidation was built around. What do I know about black people and being black, this guy is from Minnesota. He's like, I'm gonna get it wrong. So he's very nervous man. He got it right right right, it right, it right, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to to to to to to to to the to. to to to. they. they. they. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the they, they. they, they. they. He, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the the the the the the th. the the th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. too, too, too, too, too, thi. thi. thi. thi. the thi. thi. the the th wrong. So he knew going in, that. He's very nervous, man. He got it right.

It's okay. You don't have to get it right. He put so much thought and care into peanuts. It became a global icon. I met this guy who was a collector. And I was brand new. I was the youngest cartoonist, the syndication deal in the whole country. And I met this guy who said, I can help you sell your original strips. That's what I do.

And I would never do this today, but you know, I needed money. Sure. It sounds good to me. So this guy, Mark, nice enough guy was my broker. And I was talking about Schultz's influence on me one day. He says, oh Sparky? That's my friend. You want to meet him? I said, wait, who are you talking about? Sparkey Shultz, that's my buddy. I was like, you gotta be kidding me. He says, if you ever come to California, call me, we'll get to get together, I take you over there to meet the Sparky Show. Dude, it was like, but there's nothing to compare that to. It would be like it's

1984. Somebody's like, I know Eddie Murphy. You want to go over there? Yeah, he didn't find that that tee there. Come on me. If anything, you're like, should you be telling me where Eddie Murphy live? Right. Exactly. I was like, but it was crazy. I walk into this campus. It's not an office building or anything. It's a Disney-like environment. He had his own ice skating rink in his own restaurant, like a cafe. Then he had an office type building that you walk into.

And as you walk in, there's an atrium massive maybe three stories this sound like Eddie Murphy house. Yeah I'm not gonna lie it. Endopoo pool, outdoor pool. That much more money you're like why wait so how did you decide what to spend it all? Because I'm actually expecting you to say weirder stuff than what I'm here because what I'm hearing still seems relatively reasonable. You know he was a, you know? He was a, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, three, maybe, three, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, three, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, three, three, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, th th the the th the the the the the the the the th the th the the the the th the th th th. th. thi, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, thi, maybe, the thi, maybe? Because I'm actually expecting you to say weirder stuff than what I'm here, because what I'm hearing still seems relatively reasonable, you know? He was a, yeah, he was a reasonable, humble man,

which I'm gonna get to in a second. He, um, he did have this one celebratory space though. As you walked in, he just had the Red Baron, you know, Snoopy on the thing, you could look up and it's flunk. I can't even describe it, just everywhere you look, there was something. A lot of commemorate presidents and actors and they, I love you Sparky and that's not reali's name was Sparky. Everybody calls him Sparky. Everybody calls him Sparkey, everybody, Frank Sinatra, like, like all this stuff. I was so eager to meet my idol. I sent him an original jumpstart from my first like month of syndication. His office was Spartan, famously Spartan. He had a desk to draw on, a table write letters on, a bookcase

he was a voracious reader and a sofa. And my, my jumpstart was the only thing hanging up on the wall of his office. So I walk in, I thought I was seeing things, I said, um, I said, I get it. I said, I get it. Your friend told Joe I was coming and you framed that. That's very nice. I said, I get it, man. I said, what do you mean? You knew I was coming. So you put the thing. very nice. I get it man. That's very, I'm very touched. He said, what do you mean? I said,

you knew I was coming. So you put the, uh, put the thing up. He said, no, your work is great, man. He said, Jumpstar has what peanuts has, great characters. You can do this comic strip for the rest of your life. He said, but just remember one thing. Don't let the syndicate, the people who distribute my word, don't let the syndicate ever tell you what to do. Don't pay any attention to them. The whole office filled with non-talented people. It's to make entertainment too, Josh.

Yeah, it's not like, the wildest thing about this whole story is just the idea of Charles Schultz talking shit. So it's like you get in the office and he's like close the door behind you, listen, don't let anybody son you, all right? Like just like, you always imagine him as like talking the way Charlie Brown talks. So the fact that he's like, nobody knows what they're doing. Totally. Josh, I'm not th, I th, I th, I th, I, I, I th, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm th, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, it, it, it, it, it, it doing, all right, you hold on your IP, okay? Totally. Josh, I'm not kidding. It's extremely important that a creative person have utter trust in the talent that they've

been given. Because everybody has not been given talent. So, hey, by the way, Roy, just want to tell you, probably myself, I would tell you this. When I saw you do, is Boston racist? I just thought, like, this might be, like, this should go on a time capsule. It's so good. It's so good. Thank you, brother.

You didn't jump on anybody's cage. You never called anybody anything. You just let them big themselves into a hole they could not get out of. Just tell me what you think. That's it. That's it, man. Surely the people of Boston must be filling all that structural racism. To find out, I went to one of the city's most beloved cathedrals, Fenway Park. I don't see that racism, honestly.

No, I don't think Boston's a racist city. I think that we've got a lot of attention with our sports being in the media. Finding great candidates to hire can be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. You might get a lot of resumes, but not enough candidates with the right skills or experience. But not with Zip Recruiter. Zip Recruiter finds amazing candidates for you fast. And right now you can try it for free at ziprecruter.com slash zip. Zip recruiter's smart technology identifies top talent for your roles quickly. Immediately after you post your job, zip recruiter's powerful matching technology starts showing you qualified

people for it, and you can use zip recruiters pre-written invite to apply message to personally reach out to your favorite candidates and encourage them to apply message to personally reach out to your favorite candidates and encourage them to apply sooner. Ditch the other hiring sites and let Zip Recruiter find what you're looking for, the needle in the haystack. Four out of five employers who post on Zip Recruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free at this exclusive web address, zip recruder.com slash zip. Zip that's zip recruiter.com slash zip. Zip recruiter, the smartest way to hire. It's been said that nigh skies finish last.

But is that really true? I'm Tim Harford, host of The Cautionary Tales podcast, and I'm exploring that very question. Join me for my new miniseries on the Art of Fairness. We'll travel from New York to Tahiti to India on a quest to learn how to succeed without being a jerk. We'll examine stories of villains undone by their villainy and monstrous self-devaring egos, and we'll delve into the extraordinary power of decency.

We'll face mutiny on the vast Pacific Ocean, blaze a trail with a pioneering skyscraper, and dare to confront a formidable empire. The art of fairness on cautionary tales. Listen on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change.

Like none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes a second look on Apple podcasts starting September 17. Boston's racist reputation is a conspiracy formed by people who hate Boston sports teams for winning all the damn time. Yes, they love to hate us. Yeah, I don't think of Boston is a racist city at all. So how do you know? I don't feel it. You know it's just a gut fie. I don't feel like it's racist. I've just never encountered it. I said oh my god this guy is an assassin. Like you just went in love,

and you have this pleasant face and everything. I'm like, he's just taking it to him. Oh my God. Well, what you all are able to do, you know, as cartoonist is so beautiful because you have the gift of disarming people. No one reads comic strips with their guard up. You watch the daily show in a different sense. So it's hard to explain, but there's always a way to sneak in that knowledge. Yo, after the break, there's a little fact about Franklin that I didn't know until we was doing the prep for this. And also, Josh, I want to talk to you about some of your favorite black cartoon characters that maybe inspired you and put you in a different place and made you think, oh, yes, it's okay to be black in this world.

I have two. I got a white one, too, but I definitely got a black one. I got a black one. I'm not even sure if he was written by black tha black by black by black by black by black by by by by by that I'm older that I'm older that I'm older that I'm older that I'm Now that I'm older, I'm not even sure if he was written by black people. It's beyond the scenes. We'll be right back. Ford Motor Company is committed to leading an innovation with its products and services, but an innovative future requires future innovators. We learn from the past, take action in the present, and impact the future. Ford honors African Americans

who've made significant contributions in science, tech, engineering, and math. Ford is working towards empowering black youth to continue innovating within these fields and giving thanks to individuals who've helped Ford create automotive icons like the Bronco SUV and Thunderbird. Ford also also wants to highlight their employees who've advanced to titles like chief technology officer, assumed leadership roles like chair of Michigan's Black- the black the black the black, the black, the black, the black, the black, the black, their, tech, tech, tech, tech, tech, tech, tech, tech, tech, techni-in, tech, techni-in, techni-in-in-in-s, techni-in-in-s, techni-s, techni-s, techni-s, techni-s, science science science, science, science, techni-s, science, science, science, science, techni-s, science, techni-s, techni-s, techni-s, techni-s, techni-s, techni-s, techni-s, techni-s, techni-s, techni-s, techni-s, techni-s, techni-s, techni-a-a-a-a-s, thi-a-s, te-s, tea-science, tea-science, science science science science science science science science science science science science science science science science science science science, science science, science, science, science, thi-s, who've advanced to titles like Chief Technology Officer, assumed leadership roles like Chair of Michigan's Black Leadership Advisory Council and graduated from similar programs like those that Ford is proud to sponsor including the LabDraw and NACME, the National Action Council for Minorities and Engineering, which help build a community of leadership throughout these fields. Our purpose is to help build a better world where every person is free to move and pursue their dreams.

Ford pays tribute to black history, our shared present and an equitable future for all. Built Ford the to'coude to lead in innovation with its products and services, but an innovative future, Innovative future requires future innovators. We learned from the past, take action in the present, and impact the future. Ford honors African-Americans who've made significant contributions in science, tech, engineering, and math.

Ford is working towards empowering black youth to continue innovating within these fields, and giving thanks to individuals who've helped Ford create automotive icons like the Bronco SUV and Thunderbird. Ford also wants to highlight their employees their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their to individuals who've helped Ford create automotive icons like the Bronco SUV and Thunderbird. Ford also wants to highlight their employees who've advanced to titles like Chief Technology Officer, assume leadership roles like Chair of Michigan's Black Leadership Advisory Council, and graduated from similar programs like those that Ford is proud to sponsor, including

the Lab Drawer and NACME, the National Action Council for Minorities and Engineering, which help build a community of leadership throughout these th th the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their employees their employees their employees the Lab Drawer and NACME, the National Action Council for Minorities and Engineering, which help build a community of leadership throughout these fields. Our purpose is to help build a better world where every person is free to move and pursue their dreams. Ford pays tribute to black history, our shared present and an equitable future for all. Built Ford Proud. This episode is brought to you by Baked. Baked Lays, Cheetos, ruffles, and Tostitos give you all the flavor, with less fat. So you can snack a little smarter this year without giving up your favorite snacks. Reveal what else you're never going to give up in 2022 for a chance to win $1,000.

Official rules at Never Gonna Give It Up. No Purch purchase necessary. Enter by February 27th 2022 17 plus 50 US DC and PR. I'm gonna be honest let me let me show you what representation can do Rob I also used to think that pigpin was black because he was so dirty. And I just always thought, and then not only did I think it was dirt, the way they represented Pigpin, I thought it was must. Because I never associated black people with being dirty, but your aunts and your aunties always tell you boy you smell out, you smell like outside. Y'all need to put some be odor in on. Y'all kids stank. I was just like, oh damn, it'd be their their their their their their th and your your your th. Your th. Your th. Your th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, thi's th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. thi. thi. thi. t. t. te. too. too. too. too. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. 'all need to put some be odor in the y'all kids stink. I was just like oh damn maybe some funky kids I just need to be like pig pin just reminded me I need to always take a bath

and be fresh. There was something interesting and Josh I don't know if you knew this either. Well first off Josh did you know that Franklin has a last name? So I didn't know Franklin had a last name until more recently, but also just real quick off of your Pigpin thing. I think that by the time I was growing up, I had, there were more black cartoon characters. So I never thought Pig pin was black, but as far as representation goes, he did fully represent poor whites.

Like, like, that for me, when I saw a pig pit, I was like, I know a kid like that. I know, and he's struggling, you know what I mean? And like, nobody, and we all act like it's not happening, but it's like he shows up, he's got weirder stories than everybody. We're all 11 and he's smoking. It's like, that's Pigpin. How could it not be th be th be not be th be th be th be th be th be th be th be th be th be th th th th th th th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's like, that's like, that's like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, th. He th. He's th. He's th. that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that, that, that's that's that's that's that's Pit. Like how could it not be? He had no last name either by the way. Pickpin has no last name. Schroeder has no last name and Franklin had no last name for a long time. But now Franklin's last name I found out is Armstrong. Rob Armstrong. Is there any relation to Pigman? Is he named after you? How did that happen?

Well, I was in my office, my studio working. And the phone rings and Sparky's on the phone. He says, listen, I'm not going to keep you on the phone. I just want you to help me out with something. You ever, uh, wonder what Franklin's got no last name? I said, well, I thought Franklin might be his last name. Sometimes you know a person, that's the last name. He says, no, no, no, no.

I'm doing a video. It's going to go straight to DVD called, you're in the Super Bowl Charlie Brown. And in a video. It's going to go straight to DVD called, You're in the Super Bowl, Charlie Brown. And in that video, there's a PA announcer. And he announces the kids, first name, and last name, and they run out, and they kick a football, or throw football, or whatever. And Crally Brown runs out, and Linus Van Pelt runs out, and Lucy Van Pelt runs out. But in the script, you can see that when Franklin is called, there's a space in there.

Because the PA announcer says, and now Franklin. And there's a kind of a awkward, like, you go, you know, kind of, he said, that's not, that's not cool, right? How would you feel if the P. A. A. announcer says, and now Franklin Armstrong runs out, how would you feel about that? I said, wait, you're not thinking about putting my name in your video. He said, no, no, no, I'm thinking about changing his name to your name. From now on. There are a few hard-to-believe moments in my life, and I already talked about one. That's the other one.

The other ones are awful things. Josh, this is basically like if you went over to Eddie Murphy's house and then Eddie Murphy was like, I'm thinking of changing my last name to Johnson. Exactly. I'm Eddie Johnson. They always have to wonder. It's like should I quit now then? Like should I, like, should I stop? Because I've done it. I've done everything. Yeah, this is wild.

I mean, first it was the, it was the advice with the like, hey, don't let the son you make sure to get it? Like, honestly, that, like, that story is already like, that's a that, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that story is already like perfect and amazing and insane but a part of me wishes that he even went further like he just put a pistol on the desk he was like I remember to keep that thing on you like just like Carl Schultz is actually like an insane thug and nobody knew he's like about my money and about my time Josh what were your favorite did you have because I think what Rob was presented to me is it's made me reflect this, I've been sitting here thinking

the whole time we've been telling these stories and I'm like, well damn did any black character do that to me? Did any black character make me feel like, and I got, and I got two, I have two from my childhood. I want to hear yours first. Are there any black characters? Then have to become a strip. Let's just go full television animation as well. Okay. I love the Prout family growing up. And so a lot of characters on Prout family, like Sugar Baba, everybody, I felt bad

for the dad. Like, honestly, the dad in Proud family, they gave it to him too hard because he's catching it from all angles. Like even as a kid, I was watching Proud Family and I was like, this is why dad's don't stay. This is like, look at what he has to deal with. He got Sugar Mama, he got his wife, he got the kids, he got other kids coming over. It's like, why would you sign up for this life? The other one, I loved Black Panther. I'm not going to lie.

A part of me, this is like, you know, like when you're a teenager and you're like real, like, I don't know if I can speak for the two of you, but sometimes in your teenager you're already rebellious so then you get a little American history, you get mad at everything. A part of me was like, like I know that the story story we saw in Black Panther was written for Black Panther, but a part of me was like full killmonger. Like I was like, man, killmonger just right. All right, so how about, how about we blow up everything? Like, I think that I had that weird. Yeah,. Yeah, because I'm like green complex as a tea tager, which is already niche.

And then I'm coming across characters who are supposed to be crazy. But then I'm like, they might just be correct. You know? Because also when you're a black kid, you have to make characters black sometimes. So like, when you're a black kid. Finding great candidates to hire can be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. You might get a lot of resumes, but not enough candidates with the right skills or experience. But not with Zip Recruiter. Zip Recruiter finds amazing candidates for you fast. And right now you can try it for free at Zip Recruiter.

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I'm Tim Harford, host of The Cautionary Tales podcast, and I'm exploring that very question. Join me for my new miniseries on the Art of Fairness. We'll travel from New York to Tahiti to India on a quest to learn how to succeed without being a jerk. We'll examine stories of villains undone by to succeed without being a jerk. We'll examine stories of villains undone by their villainy and monstrous self-devaring egos and will delve into the extraordinary power of decency. We'll face mutiny on the vast Pacific Ocean,

blaze a trail with a pioneering skyscraper, and dare to confront a formidable empire. The Art of Fairness on Cautionary Tales. Listen on the IHart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it. This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television. Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives.

You're rolling? But that's all about to change. Like, none of this stuff gets looked at. That's what's incredible. I'm Seth Done of CBS News. Listen to 60 minutes, a second look on Apple podcasts starting September 17. Any character that doesn't have peach or pink skin is black. So Piccolo from Drag Ball Z, black.

Thanos, black, like everybody that is not white is black and a black kid's vibe when they're coming up reading comics. You just nailed one of my people that I was about black in a black kid's mind when they're coming up reading comics. He just nailed one of my people that I was about to name. Oh really? Panthro from the Thunder Cats. Yeah. He's blue.

That was my dog. Because he was like the leader. He was very wise. And you know, he was always fixing shit. You know, Panthro was always the repair man of all the Thundercats. You know, Panther had those shoulders too. Yeah, it just deep vort, Lion, oh, you shouldn't be doing that, like a, like a living ancestor. It's the code of the Thundercats. Then it's a stupid code. No, the code has served us well for centuries.

And the other one was roadblock from GI Joe, but now that I'm older and I look back at it, they was always kind of making him rhyme when he talked and shit. It was it was almost jive. It was a truck full of good eat, huh? What's it to you, Jack? I'm a gourmet chef and the name's not Jack. It's Roadblock. I'm with GI Joe It wasn't quite But it was close to job and I'm like I don't know if this was the right thing to influence me Surprisingly though growing up like and this is me not trying to start any comic beef for whatever reason fat

Fat Albert did not connect with me. And I don't know if it was the music, like I'm not a dancer, like I don't know what it was, but like my older cousins, they loved it. Fat Albert was their thing. I don't know if I met, you know, I'm 42, so I graduated high school 96. So by the time I caught Fat Albert, it was it was it was it was it was it was it was it was it was it was it was it was it was it was it was it was it was it was it was kind the back in the the the the th. It was kind th. It was kind th. It was kind th. It was kind. It was kind. It was kind. It was kind. th. thi. th. th. th. that. thiol-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-s. I. I. I. I'm a that that-s. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not tha-s. I'm not tha-s. I'm, you know, I'm 42, so I graduated high school 96. So by the time I caught Fat Albert, it was kind of on the back end of it, and maybe even syndication here and there. So I don't know if it was because the music wasn't over my era or what,

but that was the one I just, I could never, like, I would watch what the black, like I would watch all the black sitcoms. So when Fat Albert came I was th th trying to go outside. What a what an attack. First of all, that wasn't an attack. No, no, no, no, I'm just saying think about if you're like if the creator is listening, that's so funny because it's like you're already kid is a cartoon and with their cartoon comes all you're like, I think I need some exercise. I loved Fat Albert, you guys. I was real into Fat. I was so into Fat Albre. I painted a giant mural.

My first time painting a mural in my bedroom. It was, you know, it was five and a half feet, whatever I could reach. It was five and a half tall, big fat belly. I loved Fat Albert. It's so awful. Like the legacy of Fat Albert is so thatarnished. I was, I was, I'm a Philly dude. That cartoon was set in Philadelphia. Bill Cosby was a Philly dude. I mean, he still is, still is a Philly dude.

Yeah, legendary, you know, cartoon. It was just, I don't know, they started dancing Josh and I was like, I don't know to dance girls. Where's my baseball? But I'm just saying, okay, my only perspective that I'm coming from is like since it's a cartoon and you're a kid, it's like, let's let's pretend for a second, Fat Albert was a cereal or a candy. And there's somebody put in front of you, you were like, you know what, I should eat my vegetables. It's like, it's the complete opposite of how kids are supposed to respond to those things. And so that's why it's killing me that you watched it.

And you even saw it was going to, you saw the thame song and you were like, ah, let me do some calisthenics. Just like big words for a little kid too. Just, ah, I think I needtalk to you about the inspiration that you try to put into your characters in the way that you try to influence. You know, the better question is how much of it is overt versus covert influencing in the content that you create with Jump Star and we're going to talk a little bit about the book. This is beyond the scenes.

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Follow the Fox News Rundown. Follow the Fox News Rundown on Spotify today. We have been talking about black cartoon characters and Franklin who was the first black, do we know what, do we even, was Franklin from the west side or the south side? Did Charles Schultz Robb? Did he get that beat into Franklin's back story? Two parent home? Single parent home? And peanuts, they all come from a kind of a murky parent home. But Franklin, unlike the other characters, talks about his grandfather a lot.

Franklin said to Charlie Brown, my grandfather fought in Vietnam. So, you know, he went away for a long time. And Charlie Brown said, my dad, my dad's a barber. He fought in a war, but I don't know what you won. You know, there's no idea. He has no idea. He doesn't know shit about his parents. His grandfather. That's a major. That's a major. He has no idea. He doesn't know shit about his parents. His grandfather, like, that's major.

Not to know. So parents are net. Parents. Parents are parents and peanuts. They're like, ah, you know, want, want, want, want. I like how, yeah, Charlie has a conversation with Franklin is like, listen, I have an agreement in my house. I don't talk to them and they don't talk to me.

Okay? Exactly. We eat at the same time and we stay out of each other's business, all right? So Rob, let's talk a little bit about Jump Start and let's talk about the book. What's interesting about Jump Start to me is the level in which you choose intentionally at times to bathe the characters in positivity and humor in positivity. You're not using woe as me or humdrum or, you know, know like as to use peanuts as an analogy snatching the football away from someone and you know and denying the

character of the reward like you had you had a strip where the kids just want to spend time with dad dad just got home and dad is like get off me I just need a brief and it's just the kids waiting to hug their father. And I'm like, that's so touching. What are the storylines that you're trying to draw to with JumpStar? Because it really does leave you feeling good and better about the world, more often than that. It's a subversive attempt to address a very hot

topic in a black community rather than tell people I'm not this. That's a misperception. That's a misconception. That's a misconception. That's a misconception. That's racist. That's stereotypes. That's a stereotype. That's a thii-sau, that's a thi stereotype, instead of telling them that, jumpstart sneaks in a different door with a lot of things to refute that. Joe is desperate to spend time with his kids and goes out of his way to be entertaining. He's got a ritual with his twins with a sock puppet called the sock nest monster in the bathtub and all that. He's just one of these dads that would spend all of his free time with his kids if he could, with his wife and his kids.

He's desperately in love with his wife. Marcy is his girl. You know, Joe doesn't have a fleeing affairs and all this. He doesn't look and check. That would be a great special edition series though the jump start side chick run like a special tenor don't let me tell you what to do but you know keep talking yeah I was warned a long time ago if someone suggests to you to have one of your characters run off with that girl from the office don't don't listen to them Roy I will take it

under advisement see I take everything under advisement I never say never say never yeah but I want to you guys you guys here's th th th th th th you you you you you guys you guys th th you guys th th th th you guys th th th th th th th th th to th th th the to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to to to to to to to to to th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th the the thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi to thi to thi thi to thi thi thi thi thi thi advisement. I take everything under advisement. I never say never. But I want to, you guys, here's a thing. People think I came up like that, like my characters. People think I have a nuclear family. I was raised with a mom and a dad and all that. Or I have a lot of brothers. Marcy's got 12 step brothers. One plays in the NFL. They're huge. George Giants. One is eight feet tall. He teaches kindergarten. One's a pastor and one's a fireman. All of that is made up for the sake of presenting something other than what people are expecting to see. I'm just trying to stun the reader sometimes and have them think, wow, that's, I never saw that. I never saw that coming. And I want to do it in the the way it, the way, the way, the way, the way, the way, the way, the the way, the, the one, the one, the one, the one, the one, the one, the one, one, one, the one's a the the the the the the the the the the their, one's a their, one's a their, one's, one's, one's, one's, one's, one's a their, one's a their, one's a their, one's a their, one's a their, one's a their, one's a their, one's a their, one's a their, their one's a their one's a the one's their one's their one's a their one's a their one's a their one, their one's a th. the, the. theat, thea, th. them think, wow, that's, I never saw that. You know, I never saw that coming. And I want to do it in a way that is charming. I want to make people think twice before being bigoted. Calling people racist is tricky.

Racism isn't what people might think it is. Racism is awful. It's someone deliberately holding you back, impeding your progress, hurting you politically, coming up with bullshit to arrest you with and to stick on you. Like bigotry though is more pervasive, kind of a narrow-mindedness that affects us, that affects almost everyone. And I want my black reader also to re-jumpstart and feel like they're seeing something new,

like they've never seen before. It's not like that. Joe's an actual cop. Like Joe's been shot, like Joe's been shot by Joyriders, black kids in the car, all that. Like he's just out there doing police work, you know what I mean? So when all this police stuff happened and cops got vilified, Joe didn't get vilified. My profile was elevated during BLM. Like cop shows were taken off the television. And my profile went boom. Because I do a character-driven work, not a circumstance-driven work. Not a, not a, not a, I'm not gonna comment on the newspaper today.

These are people to my readers. They seem to be going through life, love, and disappointment. And they seem to be redemptive. They just keep loving each other, and itthose around them, no matter what. And that can help influence a lot of social good. Josh, what is it about stand up? Or maybe you disagree with me on this, but Rob makes a good case for the repetitive nuance of humanizing characters, thus eventually influencing your views, right? Comedy, we don't have that luxury.

In most instances, you have an hour in any market. On TV, you have an hour. Do you think comedy can be an influence for social good or because the nature of our performance genre, we don't get the luxury of that nuance all the time? I think you just have to make sure that that's how you come off. I think that when when it's you as an individual, you become something more than just checking boxes when you speak, and if people get to know you, I mean one of the things that comes with it is fame. I think that with a certain amount of fame people are seen as more than just this person who thinks this thing and people give them a little bit more of an opportunity to express a nuanced point but I

think that it's there but it's just it's very tough for it to be that that same, not just because they're two different mediums but but I think that with stand-up it is like easier to twist someone's words or to like willfully misinterpret what they're trying to say. And I think it comes with a body of work and just a public persona that's laid out over years to give people the time a day. Yeah, it's gonna put. Rob, tell us about the book, tell us what the book is and where people can find the book, brother. So my newest book is called On a Roll and I'm so like, it's just an honor, honestly, because this is the only 30-year treasury by a black cartoonist in history. It's the first one like it. You know, you see Calvin and Hobbs books

and the far side books, this is all a jumpstart, brother. And it's got more than just comic strips in it. It's got, it's got paintings I've done. It's got, that's my desk. That's this desk right. And it's got 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 that that that that that that that that that's got 500 that's got 500 that's my desk, that's this desk, right? And it's got 500 strips that I felt were my best work, my best representation of how 30 years have gone. And I know you'll like it. I know you'll like. Anyone can read a collection. I think you just gave me, you know, what will be, you know, little activity for me

in a five-year-old. He's getting decent with the reading. He is interested in humor. I try not to encourage it, but I will expose him to anything he shows interesting. Thank you. So, that's very nice. Appreciate you, brother. Instead of having him laugh at Garfield and then he'll grow up just wanting to eat lasagna all the time. Respectfully, Jim Davis, no disrespect to Garfield.

I like Garfield. I ride with Garfield and friends every Saturday morning in the 90s. See? That was my shit. So I love. So we've done it. Because what would be wild is if Jim Davis was a thug, too. So it's like they both have like a low key thing that nobody that nobody that nobody that nobody that nobody that nobody that nobody that nobody that nobody that nobody that nobody that nobody that nobody that nobody that nobody that no that no that no that no that no that no that no that no that no that no that no that no that no that no that no that no that be listening for anybody that breaks him up

just happily he's ready he's Jarool he's Jarool and he's 50 50 why Charles Shultz put the gut on the desk goes like keep that thing on you all right you never know well thank you so much thaugh well thank you so you so much Rob thoo the book tha jump start, treasury. Rob Armstrong, thank you so much for coming beyond the scenes with us. Josh Johnson, as always, thank you, good sir. Are you, you back out on the roll? I guess not. We back in studio. So you're all the tasks, got to work now. Yeah, if you're asking about dates that have to promote, you're correct. I do not have that many. the the the the the the the the the the to to to to to the the to to the to the to to the to the to the the to. the the to. the to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. the toe. toe. toe. toe. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. tie. to be. te. te. to be. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. te. to. te. to promote. You're correct. I do not have that many right now. I'm on the row with Trevor so whatever his dates are you can see me open up for him but that's about

it. Oh well then you straight then. That's dope. Thank you so much Rob. Thank you so much Josh. That's all the time we have for today. I wish we had more time man. This is history. Because you know the next story from you about Charles Charles. Thank. Thank. Thank. Thank. Thank. Thank. Thank. Thank. Thank. Thank. the the the th. the th. th. th. th. th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that. that. that. that. that. that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, th. th. th. th. th. the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the, the, the, the more time man. This is this is history. I would do because you know the next story from you about Charles Schultz was going to be about his private Learjet. He probably owned three planets all that off that peanut's money. Look hopefully we've taken you beyond the scenes. See you next week. Are you enjoying yourself? Well, if you are, you can do the podcast things, liking and subscribing and leave the nice little comments where you say how smooth my voice is. Make sure you add that in the review. Smooth voice. Ford Motor Company is committed to moving forward together, but all new electric vehicles

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