The Daily Show: Ears Edition - Remembering Norman Lear, Legendary Television Producer

Episode Date: December 6, 2023

The Daily Show remembers television pioneer, Norman Lear. In this 2014 Daily Show appearance, Norman talks with Jon Stewart about the premiere of 'All in the Family,' the one line of dialogue the network wanted removed, and why he pushed back. He also recalls his first big break and how he remembers crying because he thought Jerry Lewis messed up one of his sketches. Jon and Norman also discuss how Norman became an icon for the free speech movement, and what being an American means to him. Plus, Jon thanks Norman for raising him with his groundbreaking television shows.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. My guest, the legendary TV producer. His new memoir is called Even This I Get To Experience, please welcome to the program. Norman Lear. Norman Lear. Norman Lear. Norman Lear. Norman Lear! Yes!

What a night to me here! Listen, look at this book here, even this I get the experience. I want to thank you for raising me. I want to thank you for making this, this last piece was, no wonder my wife and I go to bed with you every night. Really, that last piece was, no wonder my wife and I go to bed with you every night. Really? That's right.

Every night. My ears are burning. How, how, first of all, you, kids today, they have everything at their fingertips. They can download things, they have it, theyir fingertips. They can download things, they have it, they can watch things when they want. All in the family, Maud, the Jefferson's. This was appointment television. I can remember as a kid the anticipation and excitement when your shows were going to be coming on.

You owned television back then. I was working as hard as you work today. No, truly, that's what we were doing. We were all working our asses off to make the best television we thought we could. The difference was that we were all serious people. Comedy was our business. You're a very serious man. That was a very serious, hilarious. Well, that's very kind I do. I appreciate that's very kind I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Where I think where I think I learned how to process

complex thoughts, things that I really cared about through the lens of comedy was watching Norman Lear shows because that's and at that time it was the banana splits and the Hudson brothers and then all the sudden thu-and-all-o at that time it was astonishing I mean at that time it was the banana splits and the Hudson brothers and then all the sudden Archie Bunker comes on the scene and all in the family and all of these issues underlying the American culture well not like right now what could make me prouder than to have sat through those last few I'm safe to repeat it again that was so brilliant oh thank you when you the the the the the the the the th th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. the. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And the the th. And, the the th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And the. And th. And th. the. And th. And the. And the th. And th. And the the th. And the th. few, I'm Saf to repeat it again. That was so brilliant. Oh, thank you. But you struggled, though, for a while, right?

Like, you, I have a lot of years of struggling. Tell me about that. What was in your mind, did you think, I'm going the wrong direction here? Did you think people don't want to hear these types of issues through a narrative? Oh, you know, I did, the first big break, Ed Simmons and I had was the Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis Colgate Comedy Hour. Wow. On the Colgate Comedy Hour, it debuted.

After the show, I was having dinner with my agent and his wife, and I was crying. Because Jerry Lewis had destroyed the scene, I thought that we had written for him. Right. He did pay attention the scene, I thought, that we had written for him. Because he didn't pay attention to the, or he did pay attention to the script, but he left the script often. Now we wrote a scene that had some meaning for us, and that's why I was crying. But he delivered the scene so well that they had to apologize to the motion picture industry

because this was a scene about television destroying the motion picture industry. And they made a public apology. Really? Yes, at the insistence of the motion picture industry. And our scene had scored. So there was something on our minds at the very first beginning. At the very first, my career. Is that something, so you went into this very consciously deciding that you weren't just

going to write any kind of comedy, you were going to write social comedy. You wanted to. I didn't go into it with that because that would have assumed I had some conscience of four thus. I get it. All right, fair enough. Fair enough. First night all in the family comes on. This is groundbreaking television. Right. What was your expectation of what would happen when this Archie Bunker character, this plain-spoken, lovable bigot, gets into American television living rooms.

What was the network worried about? What were you worried about? Well, the network was worried about the... It was 20 minutes before the show in the air. the...I. When I got a call that they were putting the show on there because there was one line that they wished out. The bunkers are returning from church because he hated the sermon and he hated the pastor and the kids are have the

house alone Mike and Gloria and they're going upstairs. They come in and interrupt that and Archie says he gets what's happening the meaning of what's happening he he says 11-10 on a Sunday and interrupt that. And Archie says, he gets what's happening, the meaning of what's happening, he says, 1110 on a Sunday morning. That was it. Oh, man! That had to come out. Now, when I said why, they said,

it makes it very explicit. It makes it very, 1110 on a Sunday morning that nails what they're happened. I said, well, look that B. How about the fact that they're married? They're going upstairs. They're married. Yes. What's the problem? Married people are allowed to have sex in the morning. I think so. Sometimes it's good for them. Anyway, they insisted that that come out. Now, it sounds, I don't mean it as a tribute to bravery at all. I had the common sense to understand, if that little thing, if I give up on that little thing, I was dead from there on.

Then, no matter what crazy, silly thing, and I thought that was just plain silly. I also had a three-picture deal offered to me by United Artists. So you had a little fall back. Yeah. I want to talk to you about, within all this, you become an icon for the free speech movement. This idea of, so in 1982 you produce this special, I am.

I love Liberty. I love Liberty. Yeah. Stars from all around Hollywood are going to all gather two hours of network television. Right. Jane Fonda to Barry Goldwater. Both on the same stage. Jane Fonda, at that time, was known as Hanoi Jane.

Yeah. Hanoi Jane. And Gold Order was running about to run for the presidency of the United States on the Republican ticket. Also, the producers of the show were Gerald Ford, former President, and Lady Bird Johnson. And Lady Bird Johnson, and Lady Bird Johnson. It was a thrill to be doing a show that was about America and about the treasures of those documents, the Bill of Rights, the

Declaration of Independence, the Constitution. I mean, we were taking it all very seriously. How did you get, you know, could a show like that happen in this environment? Is this environment more divisive than the environment that you protest that show in, and could you get a show like all in the family on the Air today? I'm told by guys and gals that are, and there are not some girls, that are running shows, that no, it couldn't get on the air today. And yet I think there are some glorious shows on the air today that are dealing with subjects that are unbelievably difficult. But they tell me, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thoes, and thoes, and thoes, and thoes, and thoes, and thoes, and thoes, and gals, and gals, and gals, and gals, and gals, and gals, and gals, and gals, and gals, and gals, and gals, and gals, and gals, and thoes, and tha, and tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, the, tha, tha, the, thanks, thanks, they, they is thanks, thoes, thoes, thoes, thoes, thoes, thoes, thoes, thoes, thoes, thoes, thoday that are dealing with subjects that are, you know, unbelievably difficult.

But they tell me, the answer to the question that when I ask it is no. It's interesting because even that the story that you tell about, the network is complaining that he's saying it's 11, 10 on a Sunday morning, you know, the explicit nature of what we see on television today in terms of sex and violence, but it's interesting to me that ideas are still forbidden to some extent. I think you've nailed it and certainly context is forbidden. Right. There is no context. When we get our news it's bumper stickers. Right. And people yelling at each other on the talk shows. Right, right, right.

But there is no context. America doesn't have the opportunity. I often think we're a country. I think it's in print these words. That a government that depends on an informed citizenry. And that would suggest that the establishment everywhere, whether it's media, journalism, pharmaceutical, American leadership would help people understand what it means.

But we get none of that help. No. And it's funny, because it's almost the antithesis, it's almost as if they actively work to uninform. You know, you see, even with some corporations and things, people will say, well, why can't we put the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's their their their their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, You know, you see, even with some corporations and things, people will say, well, why can't we put the ingredients on the label? What? You can't require that.

You can't. We don't have to tell you what we're putting into your food. We don't have to tell you what's going into the ground. You know, there's that, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I the, I the, I the, I the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the.. the. the. the. they. they. they. they. they. the they. the the they. the the they. the the the the, the, the, the, the, the the the the ground. You are going in. Right, exactly. But I think they just pass one now that companies that give chemicals that are used on death row don't have to, they can be shielded from the idea that they use that. Yeah, just interesting little things like that where it's almost like they're actively keeping people from knowing what's up. Don't know what. Well I think that if you know what's up their their their their their their their their their their their they're their their they're their their their their their their to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to be going.cci. Chimony. Chimony. Chimony. Chimony. Chimony. Chiccioling chemicals chemicals chemicals chemicals chemicals chemicals chemicals chemicals chemicals chemicals chemicals. It's to be to be to be to be to be to be they's they's they're they're they're they're they're they're they're going. It's they're going they're going they're going they're going their. It's going their. It's going to to to to to try. to to to to to toe.c.c.c. toe.c. toe. toe.c.c. they're going you're not going to deal with this substance. Right. Or maybe you're going to try. If you know what's up you're not going to stand for the government the way the

government is working. Right. Or the way the government isn't working. What was it like to ride the wave of controversy back then? Because you weren't in that same type of media the the the the the the the the the the the the of of the the thia thia thia the of the of the of thii. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I'm thi. throwne. I'm going. I'm going. I's going. I's going. I's going. I's to to to to to try. try. try. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thin. thin. I. thin. try. try. try. I's, try. try. try. I'm going. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. W. try. W. t of media environment, that 24 hours where if you do something controversial, man, it's just picked apart for a week or so. Did you feel the weight of the controversy? Did you feel that on your shoulders? We were working. I mean, truly, we were just working hard. I didn't feel that on my shoulders.

It wasn't that long after, what's his face called us, my generation, the greatest generation. The greatest generation. Brokaw. Brokaw. Is that sad? This is like a bad game of password. The greatest generation, broke all. All right.

Well, I had to do something to prove my age anyway. Exactly. To be a gentleman, do people think they know how old you are? Because it's... We're not going to tell him. All right, we're not telling him. 38. 42. There you go. It doesn't matter.

So yeah, broke up. So he called us the greatest generation. Now, I fought in World War II. We won in World War II. There was no reason to believe America was going to win World War II if there were people sitting around watching the Axis powers and where we were at the time. But this country came together and miraculously. We pulled it together, and we won that floor. Then we were good enough to do the Marshall Plan, get Europe, help get Europe back on its feet again.

And we were splendid. We were really terrific. But we began to believe our own publicity, I think. And we reached a place not all that long afterwards, where we looked ourselves in the mirror and didn't see ourselves accurately at all. as just, just, just, the to, as, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to to to to to to to long afterwards where we looked ourselves in the mirror and didn't see ourselves accurately at all as just a group of human beings that got it right. You know?

And today, I think, we suffer from that. We suffer from the platitudinous, you know, the mythology that we were in the mythology. That's what it means to be an flag pin. That's what it means to be an American. That's not what it means to be an American. What it means to be an American is being able to criticize what you feel is wrong. From whatever perspective, left or right, which is what that last piece that before I had got on.

Knock me out. Well, I just, I can't tell you how excited we are. That that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's not that's not that's not that's not that's not that's that's that's not that's not that's not that's not that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tha the thea thea thea thatea that's not that's that's that's me out on that level. Just knock me out. Well, I just, I can't tell you how excited we are to have you here and what a treat it's been for us. And you're a good good man who made great, great television. Good to see you. Norman Lear, even this I get experience, is on the book sales now. Norman Lear. Explore more shows from the Daily Show Podcast Universe by searching the Daily Show,

wherever you get your podcasts. Watch the Daily Show weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Fairmount Plus. This has been a Comedy Central podcast.