The Daily Show: Ears Edition - Sloan Krosley on Grieving a Friend | Rex Chapman Talks Bouncing Back from Addiction

Episode Date: March 3, 2024

Michael Kosta sits with bestselling author, Sloane Krosley, to discuss her new book "Grief is for People," and how her book helps fill the gap in the lack of resources available to those who lost a friend. Also, former NBA player and "Owned" podcast host, Rex Chapman, talks about his memoir "It's Hard for Me to Live With Me." He shares his journey growing up as a basketball star, his battles with addiction, and how taking better care of his mental health helped him manage demons as he got older. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

John Stewart here, unbelievably exciting news. My new podcast, The Weekly Show, we're going to be talking about the election, economics, ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches. Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart, wherever you get your podcast. You're listening to Comedy Central. My guest tonight is a best-selling author whose new book is called Grieve is for people. Please welcome Sloan Crosley. How you feeling? How do you feel? How do you feel? I feel great. How do you feel? How do you feel? I feel great.

How do you feel? I feel great. I'm excited to talk with you. This book is beautiful and wonderful. You write before this book a lot of essays involving humor. This is a memoir involving loss and grief. Yes. With a lot of humor in humor. This is a memoir involving loss and grief, with a lot of humor in it. I laugh, but how do you strike that balance between grief and laughing?

I know. I can't believe I'm here talking about the sad book. No, I think that the sort of topography of grief that everyone experiences the people you miss, you miss because they're so specific. And. And in this case the person I miss was very dark and very funny. And so you have both my cylinder of humor going and his going at the same time. You mention Russell, but really when you start this book it's about being burglarized. I know so many bad things happen. So many bad things happen. Again, there's a lot of laughing. There is a lot of

laughing, for real, for real. I mean, but one of the most interesting parts of the book is how it turns. And tell me a little bit about, you know, how you approach that from being robbed to then this next bad thing that happened. Yeah, so basically in June, June 27th of 2019, I left my apartment for one hour to get a hand x-ray so I took all my rings off. Right. I mean, what are you going to do? And came home to find all my jewelry gone, burglarized. And not particularly flashy, just gone. And then a month later, my dearest friend unfortunately died by suicide. So that first loss obviously became the sort of more minor precursor to the second loss. But I, as a human being, I am deeply unlucky, but as a, in this case, I am, yeah, but as a writer of

this book I knew, this is a suspenseful story about grief and it's a funny story about grief and it's a funny story th story about th story about thi thi th, th, so th, so th, so th, so th, so th, so th, so th, so th, so th, so th, so thi, so thi, so thi, so thi, so thi. So thi. So thi. So thi. So thi, so thi, so thi, so thi, so thi, so thi. So thi. So thi. So thi. So thi. So thi. So thi. So thi. So, so thi. So, so thi. So thi. So thi, so thi, so thi, so thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, theyy, their their thi, their their their their their their thi, their thi, this case, I am. But as a writer of this book, I knew, this is a suspenseful story about grief, and it's a funny story about grief, and I don't think you get a lot of those, so. Yeah, and it's easy to grieve at first for these items. Yeah, right? I mean, if you have been, it sucked. It sucks. I mean, you know, we had winter coat stolen, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, that, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, the, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi. And, thi. And, thauu. And, thau. And, thau. And, tha. And, tha. And, tha. And, tha. And,. I mean, it's, you know, we had some winter coats stolen. And I'm almost embarrassed.

Yeah, we had winter coat stolen. I'm almost, that's okay. Exactly. Exactly. It is humorous in a way, but also you feel violated. You feel mad. Yes. And then as soon as anything real happens, you go, that's the important thing. Yes, well, it's also the only commonality that these two losses have is the sudden nature

of them. It just felt like a real demarcation of before and after, which you don't always get with grief. Tell me about Russell. tell me a lot of – Unlitefully. A national television, I'm glad to share Russell with it. So I used to work in book in book in book in book in book in book in book in book in book in book in book the book the book the book with, book with book with book with the book with the book with the book with the book with the book with the book with the book with the book with the book with the book with the book, thoomomomorrow, thoomorrow, thi, thi, their, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the work in book publishing. He hired me. I worked for him for 10 years. He was a wildly generous, funny, brilliant, publicist and deeply inappropriate. I'm really hesitant to repeat some of the lines in the book.

But he fits sort of less and less, I think, in a world that he had helped built in a way. And part of the challenge, the challenge of this book was how to memorialize and pay tribute to someone like that without sounding like a frustrated, septergenarian white man who's like, it's just not the same. Right. The world has changed. But he was just a wonderful, well-read human being, really was almost like, you know, he's my partner in crime. Yeah.

I felt like that. People have that with work relationships and friends. I love when you talk about some of his quote-unquote offensive, whatever they were, remarks, actions. I mean, he sent you an email once as your cat or something. Oh, yeah, the whole account. Yeah, it would say, like, mommy, why are you wearing the same thing you wore yesterday?

Right. Um, mommy, why didn't you come home last night? Right. This is my boss, just so that's clear. I mean, but also like my dear, wonderful friend. Yeah, and what HR doesn't get is, it's, thi's like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, th.. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th... Won't kill them. Right, well it's, it's, it's when someone is gone, it's these hilarious, sometimes they cross the line moments that we think about and we laugh about. Yes, and now having said that, I'm not trying to be permissive over some of the behavior that he exhibited it, but also it didn't come, those things that we're talking about didn't, they weren't attached to you know sort of abuses of power or lording sex over people or anything like that he fought for

everyone's raises you know. Right. You talk about a lack of self-help books or grieving groups for loss of a friend. Yes. Why is that? Well I would say it's not like anyone was trying to take my grief away from me you know nobody was like what you you don't get to grieve to to to to to to to to to to to the to to the to the to to to the to the to do their to do their their their their their their their their their. their. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th.. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I. I. I. I. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I'm. Yes. I'm. Yes. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. Yes. I'm. I'm. th. th. the. the. the. th. th. not like anyone was trying to take my grief away from me. You know, nobody was like, well, you don't get to grieve too bad. Just a friend. You don't get to do that. Sit in the corner. No, but it just felt like the structure of life, of the self-help books, of the internet is very much loss of a spouse, the, you know, loss of a parent.

And so in addition to being so confused and hurt by his death, I had the sort of extra patina of thinking, do I have a right to this? How much is, I'm trying to get purchased on it, how much of it is mine, and it turns out about 200 pages worth is mine. Yeah. hundred pages worth is mine. It can feel very serious, but there's humor. And are you looking for the humor, or are you a person who writes your truth, the world you're in and humor is there? This old thing?

Yeah, yeah, that whole thing. No, I mean it is, the truth is, is I have always been them. I'm asking not for them because do you try to be funny in this serious situation? No. No, I don't. I think that what I have and what I imagine you have as well, in replace of poetry, maybe, are analogies and observations, and sort of this abject exasperation at the world. And that's how I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I the the the the the the the the thuu, thu, thu, thu, thusk, thusk, thusse, thus, thus, thus, the, the, the, the, thus, the, the, the, the, tho thus, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, th, th, th, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thean, thean, thean, thean, the, the, the, the, the, thi, thi, the, thi, the world and that's how I see and describe the world.

So the humor, you know, in my more traditional humor essays, there's a better sort of alignment I suppose between the topic and how I'm telling the story. With a grief book, I think it hopefully gives the book more texture and or will offend massive amounts of people. No, it won't. It's an excellent read. Why are we afraid to to to to to to to afa afraid to to to to to to to to to to their their their their their tapape tomfere tomfe tomfe tomfe tomfe tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow te, texxxxea.. It's not. It's an excellent read. Why are we afraid to say grief? Why are we afraid to talk about it? I find talking about death, especially in North American culture. It's like keep it down. Why? Tell me the answer to this existential question.

Oh, that I'm. That's why you're here. I'm specifically. No, but you have a good input on, you have a good thought on how to speak to people who are grieving or, so I, I, and why, sorry, on why it is that we talk about it so little, why is there a little bit of an air right now? A squeamish because there's grief and there's sadness. Well, especially the kind of, the kind of death this is is is is is is is is is is is is is is is very very very very is is is is is is very very very very very very very is is is is is is very very very very very very very very is is is is is very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very, this is is is very, this is very, this is very scary. the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind. The kind the kind this is very, the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind this is very, the kind the kind this is very, this is very, this is very, this is very, this is very, this is very, this is very kind this is very kind this is very kind this is is is is very kind this is is is is is is very kind. This is is is very kind. this is is very kind. The kind. The kind. The kind this is very, this is very, this is very, th. The kind of, th. The kind of, th. The kind of, the kind of, the kind of, the kind of, the kind of, the kind of death, the kind of death, the kind of, th. th. th. th. th. th. thi When we say, we don't necessarily say your cancer, our cancer, we do say a suicide or your suicide, his suicide. It's like we give it, it's like hot coal, and we give it back to the dead person as fast as we possibly can.

And I think because we're frightened for ourselves as we well should be. But I think the only way around that is to discuss it more and to talk about it and to be asked questions about it. You know, in the wake of Russell's death, people would often say, did you know? Which I personally don't have the best reaction to, because I don't know if it's for me or for him. Yeah. But I like to talk about it. What should you say? Well, I mean, first of all you should, you should, you should, you should, you should, you should, you should, you should, th th th th th th th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the thi, the thi, the thi, the their, their, their, their, tho, their, tho, tho, their, tho, tho, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi... thi. thi. thi. thooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.. th. thooo. th. say whatever the hell you want to say. As long as it's, I'm not trying to police people's reaction to grief, as long as it's authentic

and it's sincere and not just sort of rubbernecking at a horror story and using your grief for this. I think you should just go with declarative statements. You did. I did. I did. Well, you know, you said, tell me, th, you, you, you, th, th, th, th, sort of. Yeah. Where you said, you know, you said, tell me about him. I wish I knew him.

He must have been wonderful. What a big life that's more than this one moment. That's beautiful. I've heard you say, part of grief is becoming on the side of the living once again. Explain that to me. Well, if you've ever grieved someone, you know that especially right away, there's this sort of almost embarrassing thing I felt, which is I was receiving all of these wonderful condolences and I felt like I was ill-equipped or did not have the shelving to accept them, because everybody had committed the sin of not being able to bring my friend back.

And I just wanted to do whatever he wanted to do. So we had a memorial service. I, I th th th th th th th th th the the the the the the the the the the the the them I, I them I the the the the the the the the the the the thea thea the the the thea the. the. I the. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I the. I the the. I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. I th. I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the an the an the an thea thean thean thean thean thean thean thean thean. theau theau thea just wanted to do whatever he wanted to do. So we had a memorial service. I turned into what I call in the book a funeral zilla, where I was just like, is it hard to shut down Fifth Avenue for an hour? Maybe we should, why are these programs not bound with ribbon? Where is the gold lead? And I'm like, OK, somebody needed to sort of pull me aside and say, you know, you you you you you you you you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, thttau and I, thttau and I, thttau, thttau, thttau, thttau, thtoday, and, and I'm thus, and I'm thus, and, and, and, and, and I'm just, and I'm just, and I'm just, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, th...... th. th.. th.. th..... th... th.... th. th..... th.... th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to. to. to. to, I to, I th like, okay, somebody needed to sort of pull me aside and say, you know he's not going to be going to the memorial service. And honestly, at that moment, no, I did not know that. Right.

So is it like changing that focus back to the present tense? Yeah. Yes, and also changing to what he would want. to know, because again, and especially with someone, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the, the, the, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, that, that, their, their, their, to, to, to, to, to, to, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, they. they. they. they. to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to.e. to. to. to. to. to. to. suicide, they are more than their last act of free will. And we had an entire friendship and an entire life together where I know that he wanted more for me than to just focus on him. Yeah. It's a beautiful book.

You will laugh. You will think, I promise you. But it's also a tribute to your friend Russell. Thank you for chatting with us. A grief tha tha tha thiii thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to to to to to to to to thi, and to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and thi, and thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi..... thi. the. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. Grief is for people, is available now. Sloan Crosley, everybody. And we're going to take a quick drake and we'll be right back after this. Thank you.

John Stewart here. Unbelievably exciting news. My new podcast, the weekly show, we're going to be talking about the election, economics, ingredient to bread ratio, on sandwiches. Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart, wherever you get your podcast. My guest tonight is a University of Kentucky basketball legend in an NBA shooting star who has written a memoir called It's Hard for Me to Live With Me.

Please welcome Rex Chapman. This book. This book, thank you. All right. All right. All right. This book, you lay it out. You are, I know you from basketball. Some people know you from social media. You have it out. You are, I know you from basketball. Some people know you from social media.

You have a podcast. In this book you talk about your addiction, your recovery. How difficult was it for you to write that? People have been telling me I should write a book for a long time. I never really understood why. And then Seth Davis, the guy who co-wrote, the author who co-wrote the book with me. I've known Seth a long time.

He called me up. I had a level of comfort that I don't know that I had with a lot of other people. And we started the process. We started it probably, I told somebody today, I think it was like two years ago, it was like four years ago, because about a year in Seth said, hey man, I've got another project that's kind of time sensitive. Do you mind? I said, no, I don't like talking about this anyway, so you take all the time

you want. I said, sure, what is it? He said, well, it's sister Jean, who's a hundred and four years old, and I laughed. I. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, that's, I said, I've that's that's that's that's that's that's th. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I've th. I've th. I've th. I've th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th.that's the sweetest thing ever that you think I might outlive sister gee. So anyway, there we are. Man, I resonated with so much of this. You're incredibly honest. One of the things that jumped out at me was you broke the rules and oftentimes the law a lot before kind of the big bottom. I mean there was cheating in school, there was cheating on your girlfriend. That's not against the law.

No, right? There was driving with a suspended license. There was breaking tons of curfews. I mean, every single time. But then it really seemed like it all crashed in 2014 when you get arrested for stealing from an Apple store. Is that right? No, not you OK.

But I mean, by the way, I didn't just bring you out. I just told you all the shit you did that. Yeah. I'm asking a question that I should probably get to it. The perks of being an athlete and being a successful athlete, is that would allow you to. I. I. I. I. I. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I th. I th. I th. I thin. I thin. I thin. I that. I that. that. that. thathea. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that. that. that. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. then the. the. the. the. the a the a the a the a the a the a the a th being a successful athlete, is that what allowed you to? I think so. I was just talking about it in the green room, really, with Larry Hughes, my Simon and Schuster guy. My last two years of high school, I have dyslexia, and I didn't know any of that though. I just knew higher math and science and all that stuff. I would sort of check out, like, how are you guys getting this?

This is not easy, and then I'm being told it's kind of common sense. And I just kind of, I quit. I'm not going to be a math teacher. Why do I need to know this? And so that was, and then I'd cheat. But my last two years of high school, I just left school, I just left, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just th, I just th, I just the th, I just their, I just, I just left thus, I just th, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, like even in high school, well they can't afford to sit me. What kind of craziness is that? But I left, and the only time I got in trouble, assistant principal called me in one day after school.

For two years I've done this, and I thought I was in trouble, and he said, listen, Rex, I don't mind you going home after lunch. But don't be washing your car out there when the school buses are coming by in the after-point war. This also shows just how good you were a basketball. Well. Because you know, maybe I could put up seven points, but if I skip school, they're like, hey Costa, you're not that good. Yeah, but listen, man, man, th you, th, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho. And, tho. And, tho. And, tho. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, I I, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, tho. And, tho. And, tho. And, tho. And, tho. And, tho. And, tho. And, tho. And, tho. And, tha. And, tha. And, they're like, hey, Costa, you're not that good. Yeah, but listen, man, you played tennis and you played it at a very high level. That's right.

Going and playing, you know, you did. Wow. He really did. He went to Illinois and played tennis. And anybody that goes to college and plays a sport, that's thetime. That's right. I didn't really have the, I didn't have the probably the capacity for the school part of it, but I was having to go every day and I remember sitting in class, because it takes all your time. And for me back in the day, we can only play basketball like three, four hours a day by

rule. And so I'd be in a geography of Kentucky class sitting there. It's such a complicated class. Yeah. And I'd be sitting there and thinking, well, Reggie Miller, Clyde Drexler, Michael Jordan, Ron Harper, all these guys are working out right now. Right. And I'm stuck in this class. And it's my only avenue to get where they are.

And I have to do what is being told, you know, probably cheating on my tests weren't the best thing, but I only did that once. But as I read this, it, man, you worked hard. You know, you were going at night. You know, you were going to go to the gym at night. And having you and your buddy and have him rebound for you. You. You you. You to to to to to to the to th. You th. You th. You th. th. the th. th. th. th. thi thi thi thi thi. It thi. It tho. It thoing thoes being thoes being thi. It's being thoes being thoes being thoes being thoes being thoes being thoes being thoes being thoes being thoes being thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes th. It th. It is th. It th. It th. It th. It their th. It is th. It is their thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's the. It's the. It's being the. It's being to be to be to be tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooe. It's being were getting a key to the gym at night and having you and your buddy and have him rebound for you. I mean, you might have been a rule breaker. No, that was the only thing that I had.

That was the only thing I felt like I could control. And no, I worked at it. I was obsessed by it. I told someone earlier. I used to wake up at midnight on the East Coast. I'd fall and sleep, wake up just in a sweat, thinking, my guy, Gerald Madken, somebody I know out in LA, my grade, he's at the park right now. It's nine o'clock. I need to do some push-ups. Let me go run a mile, I'll come back and go to bed.

Like obsessed like that. Somebody's working harder and I can't allow that. So that same level of commitment, that stubbornness, that anxiety overworking, how do you, does that help you in recovery? Or in a way is it like, is it hard to go to recovery because I'm a bad mother f-feehaw, I can beat this? I know I can beat this. I think that's probably the mindset that got me there. Right. You know I for sure went through, you know, very first when I started taking Vicodin or OxyContin, I just remember one day very vividly thinking, oh, can I cuss? Can I cuss? I think already, I say all of it. Okay. I thought to myself, oh, f' a f-shut. oh. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I to to to to to to th. I th. I for th. I for th. I for th. I for th. I for th. I for th. I for th. I for th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. th. th. th. tho. th. th. tho. th. th. tho. th. th. tho. th. th. I for th. I for Yeah, you can cuss. I think I already, I already said, I say all of it. Okay.

I thought to myself, oh, fuck shit. Right. Right. Uh, no, I thought. You played against Michael Jordan. Yeah, I've heard it all. But I was thinking, all the sudden, you know, I was taking this medicine, it was saying take it once every whatever, all this, where I'm making that call, all of a sudden one day it just flipped

where that medicine was telling me when to take it. And before I know it, oh, I was only supposed to take three today, now I'm to four, and now I'm to five. And then I'd get to seven or eight and I go this is an issue man yeah and I cut it down to four or five and then guess what maybe an argument or whatever and then fuck this and and then that was from the time I was 15 or 16 year old though I started having some depression and whatnot and really started coping that way then because I didn't know how to cope. I would, well, I would sneak off to the racetrack all the time, bed horses.

That was what my dad and I always did. I just thought it was normal. He talks a lot about in this book, not just the pills but also a horse racing. Yeah, I liked basketball. I love thoroughbred racing. So, and the only horses these people know are the ones at Central Park. Yeah, I like those two. Let's talk about because as you're talking,

and you know, you discuss before games in high school, you always would vomit. Yeah, as a nerve. But then you also talked about how your dad, who was a coach would do this as well See this wasn't that yes yes Yeah, I he used to be a coach and I would be in his locker rooms before games and he'd give his pep talk and they'd go in the Restroom yeah stick his fingers down his throat and throw up. Yeah, and a lot of times it was dry he? Heaves and I just hear him in there, but I, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thu thu thu thu to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to thi, thi, th, th, th, th, the th, the th, the the the the the the the th, th, the the th, th, the th, they thi, they thi, they they thru thru they they thruuu thee thee thee to to to to to to to to to the the you got ready for a game. I don't know if he did that when he played I just know he right did it. We never talked about it but then I started doing it right like I well I did it out of nerves he brought his

whole team to watch like a third grade game of mine. I didn't know they were coming. I went out on the court puked everywhere at midcourt, I mean big throw-up. And they cleaned it up. I felt like Superman after that. I was ready to go. And from that moment, I was a regular puker. I puked every single game from third grade till my second or third year in the NBA. And then I was just like, and I would stick my fingers down my throat. If I was playing bad, one of my teammates might be like, bro, did you stick your finger

down your throat? Go in there and throw up. But I'm reading this and... I didn't realize that. That's crazy. This is anxiety, man. Yeah, and it's also anxiety. When did you face that? When? Out of rehab. Last time, 2014, I've been clean for nine years. I'm not the model. I smoke marijuana.

Yeah, but I use medical marijuana. I have a course light from time to time. Nine years clean from opioids. I think I really started delving. time to time, nine years clean from opioids. I think I really started delving, I hit rock, I was broke, I was broken, I'd embarrassed myself, my family, my kids, my ex-wife, all of my friends, and my friends' kids that looked up to me. Yeah. I felt like, man, if you're gonna live, you better start tackling some of why you do the things you do.

Your dad is in here a lot. Yeah. Tough on you. I mean, one night time you scored 40 points, you come home, dad's gonna like me. And he was mad that he didn't play a better defense. Yeah. And I played collegiate tenis. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. tha. tha. tha. te. te. te. te. te. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to play. toe. told. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. toe. toe. told. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah if he would have been harder on me, I could have been a better pro. And I'm thinking, well, which one is it? I don't want that. But I also wouldn't mind me a couple more bucks playing tennis. So what's the balance, dude? I don't know. I don't know. Because to be honest, I never in my college. I never in my life. My whole life was on the floor

with my dad playing basketball. He never rebounded for me. He never did any of that stuff. Also, I didn't want him to do that. I was focused on what I was doing. I was watching his teams, watching everything. I was absorbing it. And I think he knew that I was, I honestly think think think think think think think think think think think think think think think think think think think think think think think think th listening to everything. I was absorbing it. And I think he knew that I was, I honestly think he knew that I would be too nice

if and maybe fizzle out as a college player or whatever. He knew I had the talent. The problem is I did very much similar things with my own son, and he didn't have the same like talent, he was way tougher than I was, but I treated him almost like my dad treated me sometimes. I was better. But still, I would, I think that's what we're all trying to do. Little better than our parents.

But it's a hard balance. And no, I I becoming a professional basketball player was a dream come true and I that's the one thing my dad like as as it's complicated. Yeah I love him to death. I appreciate everything he's done for me. My mom the same way. Yeah. Are there some things I wish we'd done differently? Yeah who's not that way? I mean, my mom's here, you know, and yeah. And there's there she is. And, and there's a, and on black woman history night.

Yeah, and here's a list of things she should have done better. And on Black Woman History Night. Yeah, that's right, yeah, and here's a list of things she should have done better. That's a joke. That's a joke. You know that mom. What do you have to say to people listening who might be middle school phenom in a sport or high school phenom in a sport? Everything's in front of them, it seems like. And there's a reality of this that you have lived. What do you say to somebody who might be in the throes of addiction right now? Do you have a message or a thought? Man, I guess it's really just fine somebody to talk to. I had so much pride that, you know, I was this king-rxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, I thx, I thi, I thi, I thi, I had so much thi, I had so much thi, I had so much thi, I had so much thr-a, I had so much thro, I had so much thi, I had so much thi, you know, I was this King Rex type thing, this image, and I had

so much pride about not living up to anything. I had all these secret, you know, insecurities, and, you know, your pride can get in the way a lot. And once you let that move a little bit, then you can start to see a light at the end of the tunnel. However, I also recommend therapy therapy ther therapy ther therapy therapapapapap therapy th therapy th therapy th therapy th therapy th therapy tha tha thia thia thia thia thia th. I'd that th. I'd thi thi. I'd thi. I'd thi. I had to to to to thi, I had thi, I had thi, I had thi, I'd thi, I'd thi, I'd thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I th. I th. I had I had thi. I had thi. I had thi. I had thi. I had thi. I had thi. I had thi. I had to thi. I had to to to to to theeat, I had to toeat, I had toeat, I had toeat, I had toeat, I had thi. I had thi. I had the end of the tunnel. However, I also recommend therapy. If I would have been able to have therapy, like as a teenager, 18, 19 years old, I feel like, I don't know if it would have changed anything, but I know it I had a better shot of managing the stuff

that goes along with being a popular and kind of famous athlete. That's a great message. Thank you for this book. I loved it. You're the man. Rex Catman, everybody. Explore more shows from the Daily Show podcast universe by searching the Daily Show, wherever you get your podcasts. Watch the Daily Show weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Fairmount Plus. This has been a Comedy Central podcast.

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