The Daily Show: Ears Edition - TDS Time Machine | Emmy Nominated Guests

Episode Date: September 5, 2025

Throw on some formal wear and start rehearsing your speech, it's time to sit down with some Emmy nominees. Jason Segal joins Desi Lydic to talk Shrinking, and what Harrison Ford thought of his penis. Colman Domingo, nominated for The Four Seasons, talks to Jordan Klepper about his film Sing Sing. Lauren Greenfield and Ronny Chieng discuss her documentary series, Social Studies. Bowen Yang and Desi talk TV comedy and his comedy film The Wedding Banquet. Top Chef Tom Colicchio joins Ronny to talk food, restaurants and TV. Paul W. Downs and Michael Kosta talk Hacks and life in late night. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We are all huge fans of yours. Thanks. I'm a huge fan of yours, actually. Yeah, I think what you do is really important. Oh, that's very kind. It's true. Very kind. I have loved you since Freaks and Geeks. Yeah, I have a good old days.

Oh, my God. Forgetting Sarah Marshall is still, I think, one of the greatest rom-coms of all times still holds up. Thank you. Wow. Yeah. And nominated for an Emmy last year for season one of shrinking. Yeah. Now you're back at it.

Season two. Yeah. You're not just starring in this show. You co-created it with Bill Lawrence and Brett Goldstein. How did that all come about? I'm really lucky. I got kind of a free ride on this one in that I got a call from Bill and Brett. They had both had an idea about a therapist going through a nervous breakdown and they got in touch with me and asked if I wanted to play the guy. Actually, the truth of the story is apparently I was on a walk and I was listening to, I know what I was listening to at the time.

I was listening to Sign Sealed delivered by Stevie Wonder. And I was like, yeah, I was walking along kind of dancing to myself. And apparently the producer texted Bill Lawrence just saw Jason Siegel. He seems happy. a show with him. That's the true story. I love that. Yeah, yeah, life's not fair at all. I have got to start dancing in the streets more often.

I couldn't agree more. I changed my life. I have to say, if I did that, I feel like people would be like, someone needs to pay that woman to stop moving like that. Yeah. I'm also a gigantic human being, and I live in a small town, and I kind of function like the town, Big Bird. Just a joyful big bird.

I do what I can. Oh, my God. Your chemistry is so good with Harrison Ford on this show. You have this great, like, buddy comedy dynamic. How did you get him to sign on to do comedy? Did he see your full frontal scene in Forgetting Sarah Marshall? Because I'll be honest, it's the whole reason you're here today. Yeah, I accept that.

I have not told this story, actually. It's funny you ask, because I know you're joking. He was not that familiar with me. And so they said, you should watch Forgetting Sarah Marshall. You'll get a sense of what this guy. does and apparently he went off and he watched it and he texted Bill Lawrence I'm in BTW good dick and I have it framed I have the text printed and framed I have the text printed and framed

I would almost retire after that. Not that anyone wants you, but I mean, you got Harrison Ford to compliment your dick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good job, kid. You should have gotten that Emmy. I know, yeah, I know, I know. Pretty cool, right? You also work with one of our Daily Show alums, the brilliant Jessica Williams.

The best. Yes. The best. She really is. I'm sure you know and relate, but like doing improv is a vulnerable thing. Yeah. And there is a sense that if you, if you, if you, go past the line, it can be embarrassing. If you get it wrong, it can be embarrassing. And I have

never had a co-star be so there to catch the ball and throw it back with the mentality of like, if this ship is going down, we're going down together. I will ride the Titanic down with you. And I just feel, I haven't felt this way since Paul Rudd. I feel like, yeah, I feel like I have a teammate that I can depend on until the end. That's so cool. Yeah. We love her. We miss her very much. Does she ever talk about us? Yeah, yeah. All the, all the time. No, that's a lie. You're a good actor, though.

Yeah, no, she doesn't. You play a therapist in this show. Are you good at giving advice? Do people in your life come to you and ask for guidance? That's a good question. I suppose they do. Yeah, I get right at it. Like, I don't really have a sense of pride or shame.

Great. Yeah, so if someone asks me about my life, I kind of go right to it, and I think that opens a door of vulnerability so people can share stuff. Totally. I'm happy you said that. Okay, good. Oh, great. You got some questions?

around the office to submit some questions that we would love for you to give advice on. Are you ready? Yeah. Okay, real quick, fuck Mary Kill. Which of those is the worst to do at your sister's wedding? You have to pick one. Yeah, Mary. Mary, that is probably the worst thing you could do. How do you handle a coworker who keeps slacking off by only coming in one day a week?

This is a very specific one, isn't it? It's very specific. Yeah, yeah. Just tell them they're doing a great job. Great job. Yeah, great job. Mondays are good enough for us. That's right.

Mondays are going to have to be good enough. Stay in your lane. That's right. That's right. My boyfriend just got... You're the anti Garfield. I am. Yes.

Love Monday. Okay. My boyfriend just gotten some legal trouble involving 1,000 bottles of lube at his house. Oh, no. Should I dump him? It's a good time. It's a good time to move on. All signs point to...

point to get out of the... Trouble. It's so much lube. It's so much lube. It's a shocking amount of lute. Yeah, yeah. It really is. That's a forgetting Sarah Marshall amount of lute. That really... Great reference. Okay, this one totally anonymous. How can I be better friends with guests on the show that I find super interesting and have cool friends like Harrison Ford?

Oh, that's the sweetest. It happened already. I feel like it happened already. Oh my god. It's almost as good as Harrison Ford complimenting my dick. That's good. It's right up there. Thank you. We're friends now. For sure. You have just wrapped Season 2 of Shrinking. Yeah. What are you doing next?

I'm leaving tomorrow to go to Finland to make an action movie. It's the coolest thing that you possibly could have said. Yeah. Well, I think I know what your superhero attribute is. What's that? Well, Harrison Ford said it's not me. Oh, I see. Yes. Yeah.

I forget that I'm like a gigantic human being. And when I do this fight choreography, in my head, I'm like small. I'm like Kermit in my own brain. But it turns out I look like a one-man killing machine when I'm doing these fight scenes. It's really exciting. It's so, are you allowed to talk about the premise? No, I can't yet. Okay, totally.

But you go and you film tomorrow. Yeah, and I have abs right now. Oh, my God. Yeah. You say that, like, I feel like you want to show us. Is that true? I promised Harrison could see them first. Yes, that is fair.

Please give him my regards. I will. Jason Siegel, everyone. Please welcome Coleman Domingo. What a warm welcome, they love it. Did you feel, even in that clip, we show a 13 second clip, and there's a beat, and the audience is silent, and there's a beat, and the audience is silent, and The teardrops, that's some top-notch action right, Colvin deMago. Thank you so much.

You are feeling in that moment. Oh, man, thank you so much. It's a beautiful film. It's a film about the power of art. You know, when you poured into a human being, what blossoms. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's what it's about.

It's gorgeous. I wish you could just bottle, like, the joy and the hope that's in this film and just pass it out to everybody here right now. You did. You did. You did. You did. You did. That's great.

That's great. You're going to get one, and you're going to get one. You're going to get one. You're going to get one. Exactly. A little bit of joy underneath all your seats. It is a beautiful story. The transformative power of art.

Did you have a moment for you as somebody who's been in the arts on stage, in front of the camera? Like, what do you think of when you think back on that? You know, listen, I was a very shy kid and like just a nerd, and I just felt like, you know, unpopular. And honestly, the moment I took a theater class, and it sounds so, like, silly in a way, but I took a theater class. And I felt like I came alive because I, you know, I started to put myself. in someone else's shoes and become other characters. And it really felt like I had a voice.

And literally, I think my voice dropped into a deeper place. And usually, even when I teach acting, every so often I would teach acting, I teach people more than anything to have a voice. I think that's the most important thing that you get out of like learning theater in every single way. So that's the gift that I was given. And that's what I'd like to share with other people. And that's why this film is very important to me. Because I feel like it's just about finding your voice, finding that you have feelings,

and you can name them, and you can actually place them. And actually, it does some really good work in our film. It's based on our rehabilitation of the arts program at Sing Sing Prison, where these inmates were doing theater, and they really gained some skills that they didn't know that they even needed, and so much so that it just transformed their lives. Yeah. And a lot of the...

Many of the actors in the film were a part of this program. We're formerly incarcerated. 90% of our cast are forced. formerly incarcerated men. Is that right? 90%. It's remarkable. What is it, what is it like?

What is it like collaborating with folks who were formerly incarcerated compared to Hollywood nepo babies? Like were you just relieved to be like, oh, there's no nepo babies on the call sheet today. Thank God, thank God, finally. But you know what's kind of cool is that these guys had the lived experience

of going through this, but also they were trained while they were on the inside. So I was working with actors. Yeah. People had training and had respect for Shakespeare and, you know, we were just doing the work together. So we sat at the table and we just collaborated in a very gentle way. Now, these guys, a lot of guys were imprisoned maybe 20 years, 25 years. And so, but I love, it's a little subversive because when you see the film, you don't know really. Well, now you know, because I told you.

But you don't know really still because it feels like a documentary in some way. But then you realize that people are playing versions of themselves when they were inside. It's really incredible. When you're even working with, like, one of your close friends who you're sort of paired with within the film, Clarence, you have scenes where you're actually working about going over lines and what have you, which in some ways is almost meta as to the things that you were doing off-camera. All of it is so meta because a lot of these guys actually were, we filmed in two decommissioned prisons in upstate New York. And a lot of guys passed through those prisons.

Downstate is one of those prisons that everyone sort of lands at, and then they're spread out throughout New York. But a lot of guys were like Clarence Maclin Jr., literally, he said he was in, we were filming one scene. and he knew, he said, oh, no, there was a cell that I was in before. So it had that meta, but it also had a meta quality that my best friend, Sean San Jose, is actually my best friend. Is that right? Exactly. I've known him for 30 years. He's another professional actor that I know from San Francisco. So there is the meta of, there's, that's why I think it feels like a documentary

because there's something really real happening. Yeah. And I feel like, you know, there's no real, the only agenda is looking into a person's humanity and filling it with art and hope. That's the agenda of the film. Yeah. You know what? I found really remarkable...

It's such a lovely film. It feels so... It feels insular in that, like, I've seen many films that take place inside a prison that have so many external plots that act on these characters. And I think this movie lives so much within the characters. And there's a world that exists outside of it and consequences that exist within the prison. itself, but it really sits with people kind of dealing with their own emotions and how they connect with one another. Which is so rare because usually anytime you see a prison drama or something,

it's all these tropes that you see. It's violence. It's a horror story. Now I'm not going to say it's not a horror story, but inside there are other people in there, people who are like trying to advocate for others who are in the law library, trying to advocate for good food or make sure their fellow inmate is ready for their parole board hearing or starting theater programs or gardening or taking care of animals and things like that. And how it's having a profound effect on them. So much so. And I love to give this out because a lot of people don't know. Like, I didn't know about this until I started going on this journey, that there is a 3% recidivism rate amongst members who go through this program compared to 60% nationwide. So it's something

that works. Is that right? That's the truth. Yeah. People, a little bit of hope and a connection to one another. Yeah, yeah. But also, I like to say, the film is actually really funny, too, which no one would ever believe when you, when you think, oh, it's about. about like inmates, you're like, it's actually really funny. These guys are doing some, first of all, we have a whole crazy play musical that we're doing in it. And that's based on there's some little clips at the end. It's based on a real it's called Breaking the Mummies Code.

And you have everything in there from Mummies and Freddie Kruger and what, see you've got these grown men putting on a play and watching them in their antics and rolling around under the floor and being silly. But also it brings out these really warm feelings. I feel like I know anyone that knows who's watched it, they're very surprised because they go and thinking it's going to be one thing. And they walk out

feeling with, filled with so much hope and love for their fellow man. And it's a one, I think that's what we need right now. We need more warm feelings, right? Right? We need those warm feelings. We do. So you're going to win an Oscar for this. Do you have your speech written?

No. No? No. What do you do? Do you're going to prep one? No. No? You can't.

You can't. You're going to kill it. You are going to kill it, though. I don't know. I just think it's in like, I don't know, it's something, I'm a little superstitious about that. Yeah. Any award that I've ever won, a lot of times I'm working and I'm not able to be at an award show. Sure. Which I always feel like, well, maybe that's good because maybe I don't know I'm going to react like a weirdo or something.

Or I'm at the awards show and literally my publicist, she literally told me, she said, you didn't expect to win, did you? I said, I don't even think about winning. I just sit and I'm just, I'm happy to be there. I'm just with a big smile on my face, hugging and kiss on people. And then I'm like, oh, wow, I got to get to the stage and say something. But then I try to trust that I'll be in the moment, and I'll try to say something loving, I'll try to say something appealing to the moment, and that's all I can do. But I don't want to, I'm not going to be standing there, like, oh, I want to, you know, first thing, thank God. And, you know, I'll thank God on my own.

But I feel like, you know what I mean? That's personal. I'm not judging people who do that. But I'm just saying that, like, wow, wow, things are really dark here. No, no, I think it's important, but that's private for me. For me, I think I'd like to have those private conversations and I'll say something to appeal to the moment. But I think, like, I'll thank you afterwards.

Really? Yes. Okay. I appreciate that. It would mean more on stage. I will say another fun thing, though. Just saying it. Structurally, it'd be nice for my family to see it as well.

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in this show because, like, because I went into this docu-series thinking we're gonna see a bunch of, like, spoiled kids who are narcissistic, who are on social media, and they're just being total dicks. But instead, lo and behold, What we saw mostly is what struck me the strongest was these kids who, you can tell, they feel like something is wrong with them being on social media and they are asking for help. And I didn't expect that.

Absolutely. I think that's why a lot of the kids participated. We started after COVID and the usage had gone way up to 8, 9, 10, 12 hours a day. And I think they felt very trapped by it, very affected by it. and we're really interested in being in this long-term inquiry where we filmed them for one year and they gave access to their phones. Right, and the access of the documentary is incredible

because you see them in the bedrooms, you see them using their phones. In some cases, you see them, like, the cameras on as they're using it. And how did you hack their phones? That's actually a really good question because some of the programs were very difficult. So first it was the technological

problem I had to solve. We hired an engineer. Anonymous. You had anonymous to hack these kids. We hired an engineer to hack these kids. One of the, no, the kids had all agreed to let us into their phones. That was the agreement. Really? Really? That was the agreement. That was like the starting off because I realized when I started this project that we needed to know what was inside these phones to be able to do this social experiment about what is the impact. Of course. And you trick them with candy? So no. They had to. I talked to a lot of kids and their parents. and part of the ground rule was they needed to agree to do this. And they just let you in. They let you in.

Well, it was a process because we really built trust and spent a lot of time with them through the year. I mean, they definitely took it very seriously. They looked at my work. Their parents looked at my work. They didn't make the decision lightly. But even so, in the beginning, we found out later they weren't sharing everything with us,

but their trust grew and grew. Yeah, no shit. They weren't sharing it. But I was very transparent with everybody about what we were doing. And they had skin in the game. They wanted to participate. But I still had to figure it out technologically.

And I hired an engineer to help me, because one of the programs in particular doesn't want you to download it. And the engineer couldn't figure it out. So my 14-year-old son ended up helping me hack into the. Yeah. You turned to your son for tech support, yeah. But you got the access.

The access is one thing. But what you actually saw and what you are showing in this docu-series is probably It's remarkable, I think. I mean, these kids are using social media. Like, so are these kids going to be okay? Are they okay? Well, you've got to watch till the end.

No, just tell me now. Just tell me now. We just need to know how this ends. Are they alive? Yes. By the fifth episode, I think we see that they do find their voice, and that's an antidote to this very toxic comparison culture. I think what we see in the show is that kids are suffering from 24-7 comparison, that that takes away from everything.

They never feel like they're enough. And kids have always looked at like, what are the popular kids doing or what are the kids at my school doing? But here they're looking at every person in the world, half of them who are not even real or who are enhanced, and they don't measure up. So I think that is so tough. And I think that's one of the reasons they participated

is because they wanted to talk about it and have a place to process. Right. And I mean, okay, so them, them not feeling good on social media, no, duh. Like, of course, I, again, I hate kids, and I could tell you that. They're probably going to, but I guess, how much of that is just normal teenage awkwardness, and how much of this is social media playing a factor into it?

Social media has a factor on everything. I've looked at youth culture since the 90s, and social media is amplifying all of the problems of coming of age. I'll give you an example. 2006, I made my first film about eating disorders. It was called Thin. At that time, one in seven girls suffered from an eating disorder. While I was doing social studies in one interview, one girl said,

half my friends have eating disorders from TikTok, and the other half are lying. What you see in the show, and that's where the silent clapping that you saw in the clip comes in, is it's so ubiquitous, it's so universal, and the kids are relating to each other, and we're not just talking about feeling bad, about, you know, not being the football, quarterback. We're talking about self-harm, eating disorders, depression, even suicidal ideation. And these are things that many kids, even in our small group of 25, we're dealing with. Sure, but how does social media specifically, does it? I mean, isn't this just a teenage, you know, kids are, they, they, we feel anxious. I remember feeling anxious. I barely had a pager when I was a kid.

I'm like 39, so is that old? I don't know. Am I old? I don't know. Anyway, the point, I'm saying, I'm just saying like I also felt going to school awkward and comparisons. So how much of this is just, are we blaming the wrong people here? I mean, social media teaches values and values change behavior. Like, for example, Sydney, in the first episode, she talks about how when she got on Instagram, she started posting her passion, which was photography, wasn't getting any likes. So she started posting her body, started getting a lot of likes. That leads to very provocative thirst traps,

which you see this young girl talking about it in her bedroom. She looks completely innocent sweatshirt, fidgeting nervously, pastel colors in the room. And then when you see the videos, you don't recognize the same girl. It almost could be like an only fan site. Okay, now you're scaring the shit out of everybody. So how do we, like what's a solution here?

Because I, again, one of the things that struck me in the documentary, was I can't emphasize enough how much the children in this, they were saying, they were using it, the phones, and they were like, we know this is bad, and we need adults to step in and help us, someone help us. And, you know, and I think that's a marked departure from kids who usually think they're, like, telling the adults to .

And give me some drugs. And these kids are like, these kids are like, hey, we need some adults here, because we don't know what's happening. Can you please help us? Yeah. So how do we help these kids? I think that's, you've touched on a huge problem, which is parents.

Drugs. Well, it is a drug. It is highly addictive. And so they can't do it on their own. And that's something I learned as a parent. I used to get upset with my son and blame him. And beat him, and beat him, yeah. But it's like blaming a drug addict for an opiate addiction.

It's almost like, it's like blaming, it's like, giving your kids drugs and telling them not to use it having drugs in your pocket as you use it as kind of what's well jonathan says at the end it's our lifeline but it's also a loaded gun right it's got this dual thing where they can't you can't live without it and you can't live with it so what other thing is a lifeline that we would also say is as dangerous as a drugs no oh sorry no and i think they are calling out for help like sydney says it's kind of like when we learn that cigarettes had a connection to lung cancer Like now we know social media has a connection to eating disorders and depression and suicidal ideation, we need to do something about it.

And they say, so let's get off. But then somebody brings up the existential question, do you exist if you're not on social? And all the kids are like, no, people forget about who you are. Okay, yeah. So what should we do? I mean, I think there are things that we can do. The algorithm does not have to be this way. The algorithm is this teaching tool that will literally take somebody who,

is just interested in a diet and eventually bring them down a path that could lead to an eating disorder. Sure. Or kids are self-diagnosing their mental illness. So the algorithm doesn't have to be like that. It's not like this in China. Chick-Tock is educational. In fact, kids can't be on more than two hours a day. Is that true?

I don't even know. And so the algorithm is made by engineers to do exactly what it's doing, which is maximum engagement without any concern for young people's well-built. being so of course it brings everybody adults too deeper and deeper into these dangerous rabbit holes right td bank knows that running a small business is a journey from startup to growing and managing your business that's why they have a dedicated small business advice hub on their website to provide tips and insights on business banking to entrepreneurs no matter the stage of business you're in visit td.com slash small business advice to find out more or to match with

the TD Small Business Banking Account Manager. Oh, I am so happy that you're here. I hope you're ready because I am going to hammer you with tariff questions. Yeah. We have got to get to the bottom of Trump's trade war. Let's do it. I mean, first of all, I miss 104. We're at 125 now.

But 104 just felt like a sexier number, right? Right. I totally agree. It's like random. This opportunity. Oh my God. I am such a huge fan of yours. Likewise, Desi.

But like, okay, I ran into you. I think it was some, it doesn't matter, some awards thing, but like. I'm sure it was very fancy and very elite. It was very fancy, very elite, but I, like, whatever. I have tunnel vision at those things. I don't look in the perif because I'm like, I don't know who I'm going to, like, you know, and get into the crossfire with. But, like, you, I turned to you and it felt like there was a star shower behind you.

I'm like, Desi Like is right there, and God, I love her. Oh, you're so sweet. I travel with a ringlight. Yes. And I haven't entered. Your backlit? Yes, I'm always backlit. That never works.

I hire an intern to follow me around, so I, it makes you think it's a moment. Yes. No, I felt the same way. I was like, I need to corner you and make sure that you come on the show to see us, and then I can snag you. Yes. And snagged. And we did it. We did it.

I love all of the characters that you play on SNL. You've played George Santos. Yes. Oh, there he is. Yes. The very handsome George Santos. Thank you. J.D. Vance.

Aye. There he is. And my favorite, the prima donna iceberg. Yeah, that guy. That's my favorite of all time. It feels like you choose these highly unlikable, unsavory characters. and just somehow find the humor and make them engaging. I really love just this thing in our culture of, like,

people who are in media who, like, hate it too much. But, like, they chose to, like, be in front of the camera. They chose to be on display. And they're like, don't look at me, don't look at me. But it's like, you know, you opted into there's some buy-in on some level. The idea that the iceberg is a victim in all of this. Totally. That's very.

And isn't he? He was just sitting there. I mean, what was he doing? It wasn't really his fault. And by now, he's gone. He's melted away with climate change. What was the moment when you were asked to play J.D. Vance? Lauren asked you, and what did you say?

Lauren asked me, and I said, please, please, please don't make me do this. Why? I really find him challenging. First of all, I like, God's honest truth, I really do my best with him, but every time I have to play him, I go to Lauren and I say,

you can do a buyback. You don't have to stick with me. You can please reach out to Zach Alfenakis. Please reach out to Terran Kill him. But no, that's my charge. How did you find your way through him? Was it a challenge? It was.

Oh my gosh. You really are grilling me. We'll get to the Terrace. I love it. I love it. No, you know what? I worked with, you guys are going to roll your fucking eyes. I worked with like an accent coach.

We had to find the middle between. We had to find the middle between, like, Appalachian, but Ohio. Like, we really had to, like, find the right. Yeah, and, like, I was like, I don't want to screw this up. Like, I have such an uphill battle here. Like, I've got my almond eye. I've got, like, this, and everyone in America's going to be like, this Asian guy's playing that guy.

Like, I was like, I really got to nail this down. And I'm just telling you guys, I'm doing my best, okay? No. It is so far beyond that. I love hearing that because your presence on SNL is like, like I can't imagine the pressure cooker it must be, and you always look so calm and cool and relaxed. So thank you for sharing that you work really hard and you hire an accident.

And I'm not even on ketamine. It's amazing. Yet. Yet. Yes. I want to talk about your podcast. Yeah. Las Culturistas.

Yes. Pop culture has been a huge. part of your life, you started doing that in 2016 before SNL. How has your perspective changed over the years, being someone who observes and is passionate about pop culture, to then becoming part of the culture? Oh my gosh. I really think there is no big difference.

We're basically the same show as we were nine years ago, which is dinosaur years in podcasting. Yeah, truly. But I mean, it's the same show. We start off, we just riff, and then we end with this silly segment. But I think, like, I'm just, like, y'all going home watching The Pit, you know what I mean? Like, I, like, we're all watching the same stuff.

And I feel like there's, I get why everyone thinks that, like, things are fragmented now and there's no monoculture anymore. But I feel like we're still, like, tuning into, like, the same shows. Like, there's just fewer shows that we're all tuning into. But I feel like that kind of makes our jobs, our jobs as people, as consumers, easier.

If we're just like, all right, it's Sunday. We're gonna watch Walton Go. You know, be scary. Yes, yes, and we all did. Except I have not caught up on the finale. So please, no one in the room, blow it for me. I'm going to watch tonight. I want to talk about your new movie, The Wedding Banquet.

It's so good. You're fantastic in it. This cast is amazing. Lily Gladstone. Yep. Yajung Jun, Joan Chen. Yes. Honky Chan.

It's his first English movie ever. He's amazing in it. Kelly Marie Tran. It's a great. Tell us what the story is all about. So it's a remake of an Ang Lee film from the 90. It's about this sham marriage that has to get staged between these two couples who are friends with each other. The lesbian couple needs an IVF treatment.

The Korean guy, my boyfriend, needs to just stage this wedding so that his parents in Korea, his family in Korea doesn't find out. He's really wealthy. He offers to pay for the IVF treatments, and my character kind of gets sidelining. He's like, how do I fit into this? And it's so fun. It's a warm hug of a movie. You'll all love it. I promise.

It's great. It's a rom-com. You're bringing the rom-coms back. Yeah. Finally, we need more. It's me. Oh, my gosh. Thank you.

Yeah. It's me, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, all, all the front line. I'll take, I want, that's a movie I'd like to see, actually. A thruffle. A thruffle with the three of you. The, the, the movie, as you said, centers around a sham marriage. Yes.

Have you thought about who you would want your sham white. to be for a green card like if you had to totally situation um let's see who who needs one um but who wants to come here anymore you know what i mean a fair point uh i'm gonna say um would she be like a blonde in in late night or um it's like if you could choose anyone but aren't she i see i i feel like you're spoken for i feel like right but um she would absolutely be a blonde and no as you were as i was i you know what i would really take any um i i'm i'm a self-proclaimed boob gay i'm i love a i love a booksome bosom yeah i appreciate that uh so yeah as long as you're stacked i'll marry you yeah i love that i love that

most respected chefs in america thanks for coming on the show great to meet you Great person as well. Your book, cookbook and memoir, you've managed to trick us into reading about your story. In between, you kind of hide it in between these recipes here. It's well written. I encourage everyone to go read it. For a chef, the stereotype is everyone's very angry, but you write this with so much love. What is the real you?

It's this. This is it. Yeah, that's it. Because on this, I know this is kind of like a half. khaki question, but I just got to ask it, because you also bring up in the memoir, when you are up and coming, you're being trained by these legendary chefs, the training in the kitchen was pretty hard-core. Yeah, it was.

People were yelling at you. People weren't yelling at. But, you know, I think there's a reason for that, and especially when I was in France working, I got a sense that they couldn't communicate any other way. That was the only way they could actually, like, get a point across. Right, the French. Yeah. And so you got used to it.

But, I mean, even in America, you're training in America. Same thing, the American chefs. Same thing, though. So I guess my question to you is like, I mean. They only got you in different language. Yeah. Yeah, fuck is fucking. It doesn't matter.

Exactly, yeah. Because I feel like I don't know enough about cooking at all, but with comedy, I feel like there is a certain amount of toxicity that you need to endure to get good at this, you know? And so do you feel the same way with cooking, you know? I guess what would you say to all these woke cissies? who are complaining about being mistreated in the kitchen. Like, really, are you like, hey, like, tough enough? Or are you like, hey, something's...

Not anymore. No, we don't do that anymore. No, no, we can't do that. No, things have changed. When I was coming up, it was 40 years ago. It was a very different world that we lived in. And it was, you know, there wasn't a whole lot of, you know, in your face, screaming and yelling, but there was a lot of hard, long hours.

And there was a lot expected of you. But it wasn't the yelling and screaming that you think about. But the misogyny was obviously there, the sort of machismo of kitchen, you know, you know, you burnt yourself, that was a badge of honor. How many times you burnt your arms and things like that. And so, but I think that's a lot of that's going away. Right. But I guess the question, again, to you is like, is it going away for the, is it good that it's going away? Or do you feel like something's missing in the transfer of knowledge or?

No, I don't think anything's missing in transfer of knowledge. I think that it's going away for the right reasons. You know, the idea of getting someone to do something through intimidation, does it. really work. I mean, maybe it works than military. I have no idea, but it certainly isn't necessary to get your point across. And I think also, if you look back to, you know, chefs that were running kitchen. So I didn't drop you. Actually, I spoke to a military guy about this. Because I'm, as an Asian person who grew up in Singapore, Malaysia, I've been yelled at my whole life to where learning was being yelled at. And I asked the military guys about this. And the

U.S., I mean, small sample size, but one of the U.S. military guys said that when you're yelling, you've already lost control. You lost them. Exactly. You lost control. So, Meaning you shouldn't be in that situation first place. You don't have to be. I think it's a matter of 40 years ago, the chefs that were working in kitchens, they weren't able to communicate exactly what they were looking for. And so they were running around and screaming the whole day

because they thought that was the way that you had to motivate people, because that's the way they were motivated. And somewhere along the lines, I mean, for me, and I think I mentioned this in a book. Yeah, with Thomas Kellynne. Well, that was different. Sorry, don't interrupt you. That was more psychological nonsense that he was playing.

He played a lot of games. I mean, he's a great chef. But I just had an issue with the way he was talking to me. You know, I, I, you know, I promised myself at a certain point, if I got a restaurant that I wasn't going to sort of, the things that, the way I was treated, I was going to break that. I was going to do something different. And, you know, did I lose my temporary times? Absolutely. But nowadays, you kind of walk away.

Before you lose your temper, you walk away. Okay. Okay. No, I'm genuinely interested in this because you're arguably the most respected chef in America. If you're saying that, hey, we don't need to be yelling in kitchens, then I guess everything that's happening in the bear is completely unnecessary because those guys, you know, what are you guys doing? I don't know, but I don't know if you saw the third season.

It went to a whole lot of yelling in the third season, and it wasn't that good, right? Oh, okay, well, I mean, that's something I can't speak to, but you speak to the kitchen stuff. I think there's a lot of people who think that the third season was a little slow. Okay, well, I'm not going to know. That, yeah, I love and watch the band. Not me, it's the critics say this. Sure, well, it's not me. I'm still available for guest appearances on the band.

Yeah, and, again. They're going to take my cookbook. I have a cookbook on the shelf there. They're going to take it off now. No, they won't. Season four, my books gone. No, you see, you don't yell at it anymore. You just say that they suck quietly.

Very quiet. That's what you're doing now. You're not in the kitchen going, you suck. You're on the daily show going, you suck. They suck. success of hacks. Thank you so much. We laugh. I laugh so hard at the show. That's the goal. So much of this season, so much of this season is about acquiring or attempting to get a late night show. Yes. Did you reach out to people in late night? Did you not have my email and you were

nervous? And then you got it, but then you still didn't want a cold email. How did it work? You know, I know you have a lot going on. You have a lot of news to read. You have a lot of things to do. So we did have, we had a bunch of consultants on the show that had worked in late night, so we had a peek behind the curtain from our writers. Because it is, I mean, I'm, I feel like you're writing about the comedy industry and it's singing to me, but then I'm going, is the rest of the country also understanding and laughing and all this? But it feels like you've really done that.

That's good. How have you created a show about show business that my friends in Michigan like also? Wow. And they're idiots. I love them. You know, I think because it's a show about people who have been kind of cast aside by the industry, I think it's really relatable because you know what it's like, or a lot of people know what it's like, to be on the outside of something and want to break into it.

And, you know, this woman, Deborah Vance, played brilliantly by Gene Smart, you know, is this Vegas stand-up and kind of had to carve out her own path outside of show business. So I think because of that, you know, people who want to do creative work or people who want to do something and have a craving for something, really understand that, want. Her drive, her ambition, yet her selfishness, that's one thing I also got to ask you about. Does one have to be selfish to be successful?

I'm asking, basically, I'm asking myself that question. But it comes up in hacks. Oh yeah, it's a major theme. I hope not, because I'm an angel. So, I mean, I hope you don't have to be. But, you know, I think you have to be selfish to a certain degree in that if you are somebody like the characters in the show, you have to really be married to your work. You know, it's like really all about devoting yourself 150%. So in that way, I think, yeah, you kind of do sacrifice things in your life.

Was it important for you to create a show where women from different generations are interacting? because that's one thing that I, when I was looking at hacks and not just laughing with it, and I was saying, I was like, holy shit, these are just two totally different age groups interacting, which is pretty rare on TV. Yeah, I mean, that was the thing for us is we had never seen a show, I mean, other than maybe mother-daughter or something, where there were two people that were so different that became friends.

So that was really one of the most interesting parts of the dynamic. Also, it led us explore different ideas from their frame of reference, which would be so different. And so we can do that over and over again. in a way that hopefully is, you know, sensitive to both of their points of view. Nobody's ever 100% right. Yeah. Well, that is what's fun is you, as soon as I'm liking Deborah, she breaks my heart.

And then I'm, you know, it's, yeah, so you've done that very well. Thank you. Hacks that term in stand-up comedy. It's an insult. It is. It means you are telling old jokes, you're not being creative. Right. How do you know?

Exactly. Honestly. I know because I'm fearful of it. Yes. You're very, you know, the worst thing you can be called is a thief. The second worst thing you can be called is a hack. Yes. So how did this term in the title happen?

And sometimes I wonder if it's accurate for the show. Am I right to question that? No. Okay. Absolutely not. I'm going to ask you that. No, I mean, it is interesting because we We kind of called it that in the beginning.

It was sort of like a temporary title. Okay. But it is like this thing of, and you see people on late night, actually. A lot of times comedians I find, or I think we can all agree, sometimes go on a late night and they still kill. And they're so funny because they're in touch with what's going on in culture. And then there are some people that age out. And some people that you get, are on and you're like,

why is this person still doing it? Or why are they still telling the same jokes? So in the beginning of the show, this young writer interviews for this job with this older stand-up and says, I would never want to work for a hack. But what she learns in the course of the show is that a hack is somebody who does the same thing over and over again,

but our character learns and grows because of her relationship with this younger person and vice versa. I mean, the younger person is an entitled Gen Z person that learns the value of hard work and gets up earlier. You know, there's a lot of things that... She gets back from Deborah.

You co-created. There's a lot of, you know, you write on it, Yeah, you've directed, right? Yep. And you're in it. Yeah. That's a shitload of stuff. Too much.

Too much stuff. Too much, yeah. Wearing all the hats. How do you compartmentalize? Is it too many things? You know, they all kind of go hand in hand for me. I mean, being able to perform is the most fun, but also having written it, it just, it gives it a little bit more of a freedom and an effortlessness when I am performing.

Directing is something that, you know, I think when we write, we write visually. and we think about the way that the show looks and how it's composed. And so that is also something that feels like it's just integral to the work, but it is the hardest part. Directing is hard. Directing is really hard.

Because you have to think about time and there's a whole crew of people that are making this thing happen and you're deciding if you can move on or you'll get another take. It's just like that stuff is much less fun than saying lines. I mean, you're also dealing with talent,

but in yourself, you're dealing with yourself. And that's the hardest. You ever think about that? Yeah. Like, God, this guy, Paul, is such an aspect. to the director. Absolutely. Yeah.

I am the most demanding of the director, and I'm the hardest on the actor Paul. Yeah. Exactly. There's a line in episode one, season three, where you're at the JFL Just for Lafts Festival, which, rest in peace. Rest in peace is now bankrupt. Yeah. But there's like young people at the bar, and one of them is looking around, and he says,

God, it feels so 80s in here. Yeah. And I laughed out loud. Who wrote that? What is that line? improvised by that actor. Are you serious? Yes, I give credit where credit is doing.

Wow, well, shit. Thanks, but he's a co-writer. Now he's a co-writer. Yeah, Jordan improvised that. And yeah, that's the thing we try because myself, my wife Lucia Inello and Jen Staski, who created the show, we all come from improv and sketch comedy. And so when somebody brings something to the role

that makes it better, we're like, great, let's use it. So we're constantly adapting on that. I feel like you and your co-star the scene that showed, are improvising a fair amount. Is that accurate or is it just feels so natural? Yes, but in the scene that you just saw, that was completely scripted. It was. That was very, very scripted because there were so many, you know, that woman who was taping us had

like, you know, there was a lot of moving parts to that scene, but we do improvise a fair amount. That's great. That, I told you backstage, but that episode really resonated with me because as a comic, it's like, get to JFL, get to Just for Laughs. And holy shit, you guys nailed it so well. Thank you. But there's also a little bit of a dig there on this show.

show called, On the Contrary, that Hannah's character plays. And it's a man wearing an Uncle Sam hat, and they're talking about how important comedy is, how it changes society. Oh, yeah. And I'm watching it, and I'm looking around here, and I'm seeing the red, white, and the blue. Yeah, yeah. And then I was thinking, you know, one of the things I like about Deborah's comedy is that it isn't always important.

It isn't always changing the world. And I want to know what your thoughts are on, is comedy important? Is it meant to be? Does it need to be? Can we just do a joke where we do fart noises in our armpits sometimes? My favorite joke. My favorite joke. Yeah, I think that, I think comedy is important, even if it's not satire and it's not political comedy.

I think it's important because, I don't know, that thing of, like, getting together with people and laughing, it does bring people closer together. I know that sounds so woo, but it's true. I mean, don't you guys feel connected? Yeah. It might feel like, yeah. Yeah, that was fun. Was the Daily Show in there when you were thinking about that? Oh, there's DNA in the Daily.

Yeah, there's absolutely Daily Show references in there. Speaking of the Daily Show, tell us quickly, you have a little bit of experience in this building. Well, I met Ilana Glazer from Broad City, who I worked with on Broad City, on this street, because we both auditioned to be on-camera interns on the Daily Show. and neither of us got it. That's why I made it bring it up because, no. That's okay. It's okay. I do love that.

It worked out. Because that's where you met her. We met on the street. She had met my wife Lucia and she said, hey, you're Paul. And I said, yeah? And she said, I know Lucia. And I'm just like her, but three years younger. And I was like, is this a time travel thing?

But you know what? That's very Alana. It's kind of classic Alana. That's so funny because this is also part of the reason why everybody I meet on the street I keep in touch with for years. Yeah, because you never know. Explore more shows from the Daily Show podcast universe

by searching The Daily Show, wherever you get your podcasts. Watch The Daily Show weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central, and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount Plus. This has been a Comedy Central podcast.