The Daily Show: Ears Edition - TDS Time Machine | Interviews with Obama

Episode Date: August 4, 2025

Take a stroll down memory lane on the birthday of the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama. Stretch back to 2005, when Obama joined Jon Stewart for the first time as a junior senator. Catch his return as a presidential candidate. Hear how he's evolved, visiting the show in his first term as a sitting president. Listen in as he takes a look back at his legacy with Trevor Noah, after his presidency. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to Comedy Central. My guest tonight, a Democratic senator representing the great state of Illinois. His book is Dreams from My Father, a story of race and inheritance. Joining us via satellite from Washington, D.C., please welcome Senator Barack Obama to the program. Senator, thanks for joining us. How are you, sir? Hey, John.

All right, kids. Settle down. How are you, sir? I am doing great. How are you? Very well, sir. Thank you so much for joining us. I know that you had to stay in Washington

to vote on a particular defense bill. Is that correct? Well, you know, we thought it was a defense bill. It turned out that it was a health insurance bill. My staff figured I should go and be on the John Stewart show anyway, but I thought maybe health care for the American people was a little more important. Uh... Senator, do you typically not find out what you're voting on until you get there that day?

That is normally how we organize ourselves around here. I don't know if you can tell by the results. Sometimes. Let me ask you a question. Or is that a thing they do only to freshman senators? Is there a hazing process? Do you have to carry the gavels in and out? Is there anything that goes on? They make me sharpen pencils and sometimes I have to stand between Harry Reid and Bill Frist. That can be a difficult job. Speaking of which, the Democrats have suddenly,

in the past, let's say, week, seem to have gained a bit of a voice and a bit of traction. Are you finding that as well for yourselves down there? Is there a palpable feeling? I think the Democrats are feeling a little frisky right now. No doubt about it. Frisky in terms of? Politically speaking. Is it because you feel like frisky right now, no doubt about it. Frisky in terms of...

Politically speaking. Is it because you feel like now you've got a strategy or that these guys are imploding so viciously that if you just stand back and get out of the way people are going to have to vote for the other party? Which is rich. Look, there is no doubt that George Bush has had a tough couple of weeks. We don't underestimate their political skills. I think what we do is question their governing skills. And some of the issues that we've been talking about on

Iraq, on health care, on public infrastructure, we've been talking about for a while. I do think that part of what's happening is the mainstream media is more critical and paying more attention to what's happening, and that gives it more traction than we had before. See, I don't have a television, so I'm not sure what I'm not sure what's getting out there into the ether. But I always wonder, you know, we've had a few Democrats on the show, Democratic senators, a couple of governors,

and I always say, so what specifically would you guys do? And then they always say something like, we would honor the people. We would help working families. Is there something more specific that you have in mind? If Barack Obama was in charge of the Iraq policy, what would we be doing right now? Well, you know, Iraq is sort of a situation where you've got a guy who drove the bus into

the ditch. You know, you obviously have to get the bus out of the ditch, and that's not easy to do, although you probably should fire the driver. But the... So, seriously, this is a huge problem. I was opposed to the war even before I was in the Senate. Now the question is, how fast can we get our troops home without causing all-out chaos in Iraq? And I think that you're looking at December 15th as the date for the next parliamentary elections. That has to

be a benchmark where we say to ourselves, we're not going to have a military solution to this. We can't replace the Revolutionary Guard of Saddam Hussein in holding this country together. If the Iraqis are serious about keeping the country together, then we should be able to start phasing out our troops by next year. And we've got to have specific benchmarks to do that. Let me ask you a question, Senator. Who's the worst Senator?

In your mind, like, let's say you're looking around, and let's say some guy comes in and you're like, oh, crap, it's that guy. That guy's terrible. guy comes in and you're like, oh crap, it's that guy. That guy's terrible. Is there somebody that you just think, man, that guy, he can't even read? Nothing? You know, they're all, they all have their qualities. Yes. I think there are a couple guys where you do sort of think, how did you get here?

But mostly you feel like you can work with these guys. You know, the truth is that part of the criteria for getting elected is that you've got to have some likable quality. You've been vetted of some sort and most of the folks really are trying to represent their constituencies as best as they know how. Do you feel do you feel pressure senator, you know you come in with an awful lot of hopes and dreams on your

shoulder a lot of people look at you as kind of the new vanguard you feel that pressure you just doing your job doing your thing. Well, you know I don't feel a lot of pressure. I think that if I speak honestly, if I try to work hard and do the best possible job that I can, then I think things will work out pretty well. It is true I worry about the hype. The only person more overhyped than me is you. Ha ha ha! Well done, sir.

Well done. Drieser, my father, that's about the best answer I think I've ever heard. Thank you so much for joining us. Please come and see us in person when you're in New York. We'd love to have you here. I would look forward to it. I'm a huge fan, and I've gotten cool points both with my wife, who loves your show,

and also with my four-year-old who remembers you from El Mo Palooza. Oh, thank you. I thought you were gonna say, from your four-year-old, who also watches the show, because that's really the age group that we're aiming at here. His book is Dreams for My Father. It's on the bookshelves now. Senator, thanks for joining us.

Senator Barack Obama. My guest tonight, a Democratic senator from Illinois. He is also running for president. Please welcome back to the show Senator Barack Obama. Senator. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You rock for rock. You rock for rock. You rock for rock. Senator, thanks for joining us.

John, it is good to be here. The effect that you have on a crowd, it's unusual for a politician. You do have, there is a certain inspirational quality to you, my question is, is that really something America is going to go for? Well, we're going to find out. We're going to find out. We've been just having a wonderful time traveling all across the country, and we've been getting these enormous crowds, 20,000 people in Atlanta, 20,000 people in Austin, Texas, 10,000 people in Iowa City. And, you know, we're especially seeing a lot of young people. And that is one of the things that's most exciting about the

campaign is folks who haven't seen a lot of inspiration in politics most of their lives suddenly taking this seriously. Yeah. And coming out to see it. And do you have, if I may, kegs? Because that also can draw them. We don't like to divulge our secrets. I think that's why.

You've been taking... This is amazing. I just pulled some quick clips from the paper because the process that we have in which we elect our officials is so insane. I was on the Web yesterday. Your wife, I guess, had been giving a speech in Iowa in which she mentioned that she feels that she wanted to take care of her own household.

She felt like, you got to be able to take care of your own house. Right. Didn't really feel like you could take care of the White House. I turned on Drudge. It said, Obama's wife slams Hillary. You mentioned something about going

after al-Qaeda in Pakistan. This says Obama stumbles and bumbles on al-Qaeda question. Bam, bombs himself in new gaff. This is my favorite. Angry Obama the Pothead is not how we remember him. Has the insanity of this process sunk in on you yet? Every day it reveals itself in new ways. And I think that's part of what people are looking to our campaign to see is just some

normalcy and some common sense. I was mentioning that we were preparing for the debate. We had an 8 o'clock in the morning debate in Iowa. And this was like the 27th debate for real. And you know, it's always a shock to the system when Sunday morning you wake up and you're face to face with Mike Gravel. Yes. And so we're preparing and one of my staff said, the thing you've got to understand is this isn't on the level.

And I think that really strikes to what people are frustrated with in politics is that so much of what we talk about, so much of what we say, it's not true. People know it's not true. All the insiders understand that we're just game-playing. And in the meantime, you've got these hugely serious problems, which are true. Do you feel like you're stuck in a narrative now? And the narrative is Hillary Clinton is unlikable

but knows what she's doing. Obama is inexperienced but brings change. And that narrative, no matter what you do, because it's easily categorized, the media or everyone else will just slip whatever happens into those two narratives. That's what's happening right now. They will probably find something new later to talk about.

Could you tell us what that will be? We don't know yet. Whatever sells papers. Whatever sells papers. Whatever sells papers. Does your campaign, do you find yourself falling into promoting those narratives as well? Is it hard as a campaigner to not see yourself then as a product as well? Well, what happens, let's take the example of experience.

We try to remind people, nobody had a longer resume than Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, and that hasn't worked out so well. And so... What we... So what we try to do is break down these narratives and get to the heart of the question. So when people talk about experience,

what they really want to know is does he have good judgment. And you hope that if somebody has more experience, it gives them better judgment. Of course, everybody knows a lot of 50 and 60, 70-year-olds that don't have good judgment because they keep on making the same mistakes over and over again. And so what we want to try to do is to start talking about judgment, how do we actually get stuff done, what's common sense, and what's been interesting, for example, on not using nuclear weapons to bomb an al Qaeda camp, for example.

Initially everybody said, oh, that's a gaffe. And then suddenly reporters started talking to military experts who said, why would you even consider using nuclear weapons? And some of the press scratched their head and said, hmm. And you notice that... It turns it around. It turns it around.

And that's how we continually have to respond is to just push against the conventional wisdom, push against the habits of thought. It's the same way that we got into Iraq, was nobody is willing to ask tough questions, and there's this- Challenge conventional wisdom. And challenge conventional wisdom. That's what we've gotta do.

Well, that's what's great about it, is the way they've responded is, we agree with Barack on those things, we just didn't know you were allowed to say it publicly. And that's been the best part about it. We'll take a commercial break, we'll be right back with Senator Barack Obama. Welcome back, we're back with Senator Barack Obama. Welcome back.

We're here with Senator Barack Obama. Uh... With the experiencing thing, have you thought about running a smaller country first? No, you know, what I did think about, though, was invading a smaller country. As, uh, you know... Where are you going to get some popularity? Granada? Grenada? Yes. As, you know, like... -"Priority to get some popularity."

-"Granada." -"Granada," or, you know... -"Well, that's a gaffe. I don't know how that's gonna show up in the headlines tomorrow. That's a big one. Now, listen, what do you think about... You definitely also have a little bit of that Hollywood flair. You're gonna start drawing the celebrities.

Oprah is gonna throw you a fundraiser. -"Oprah's doing something." That's right. -"Why would... That doesn't seem good. And I'll tell you why." So the celebrities, Oprah is gonna throw you a fundraiser. That's right. Why would... That doesn't seem good. And I'll tell you why. I still remember Howard Dean in Iowa with Martin Sheen introducing him, quoting an Indian poet to a caucus group

of literally, like, AFL-CIO workers and just seeing their faces like this. Huh? What is he talking about? Well, you know, you don't use folks in that way. Look, I think having Oprah's support is wonderful. I think having celebrities want to do stuff for you. But the truth is, in Iowa, in New Hampshire, people just want to talk to you.

They want to lift the hood. They want to kick the tires. They want to look you in the eye. They want to get a sense. They want to lift the hood. They want to kick the tires. They want to look you in the eye. They want to get a sense. Are you telling the truth? And there's nobody that can do that job other than you. And Iowa can be one on the ground. Iowa can be one on the ground.

And one of the things that we've been so excited about is just seeing the volunteer energy. And you get these young people from Iowa who are volunteering, coming into the office. And people, you know, they're impressed with that. And that's part of the message we're trying to send in the campaign is that the only way we can break out of the gridlock and overcome the special interests and the lobbyists is if people get involved and they get engaged and we break out of this sort of red state, blue state,

half the country is divided, there's nothing we can do about it. You know, we've just got to battle it out. Can a senator do it? Can, you know, so often now it's the governor's. Is there something about, because the Senate, it's very hard to run on your record in the Senate because the Senate is so paralyzed and nuanced. Well, it's paralyzed and it's designed for you to take bad votes, right? And you know, a governor is more likely to be able to set the terms of the debate.

They can give a speech, they say, this is my initiative, this is my proposal, I won't sign it unless I agree with it. You know, with senators, you end up having to actually vote on stuff that has no relevance whatsoever, but can be used later on to attack you. So... Where's the whole meme that Hillary Clinton is very experienced? She's been in the Senate a few years longer than you. And then she was the First Lady.

Is that... Are they counting that? Is that... Does that go on the resume? Because I'm not sure. I mean, if that's... They keep saying she's the experienced candidate. And I keep wondering, man, she's been in the Senate a couple of years, but I don't think First Lady counts. Does it? Or does her husband's resume somehow under her?

I think that, first of all, she's a very capable senator. She's very smart. I think people rightly give her credit for having been a participant in the Clinton administration and that she was doing some heavy lifting on issues. But I do think that increasingly what Americans are looking for is not Washington experience but do you have life experience that is going to lead you to make good decisions and are you in touch with what's happening on the ground? Would you take any Democrat in the field over any Republican? Is there a Republican in the

field you admire that you think would do a nice job? You know, I think some of these folks are decent people. I mean, Mike Huckabee. No, no, no. Worst backhanded compliment ever. No, no, no, no. I think there are guys like Huckabee who I think are sincere and decent. But, you know, if you look at how they were trying to outbid each other

on Guantanamo, we're going to detain even more people and alienate even more folks outside our borders. That kind of stuff, I think, is not serving the Republican Party well and is not going to serve the country well. Well, here's to staying above the fray and not having the red-blue divide anymore. And we hope you come back and see us again soon. It is a thrill. I love this show. Thank you very much. Say the word, Barack Obama.

The President of the United States, Barack Obama. Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming the President of the United States, Barack Obama. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Please have a seat. Thank you. Please have a seat. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

I'm sorry. That's all the time we have. Thank you for joining us. This is a nice set. Thank you very much. It reminds me of the convention. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I. This is a nice set. Thank you very much. It reminds me of the convention. We actually bought it. It was in a warehouse. And we bought it. We had a chisel. Let me give you Mug Force One. This is yours. There's no water in it. Let me get some water for you. I'll get that on the thing there. Thank you so much for coming by. There you go. Does that happen to you wherever you go? Is that just a wild...

Because when you guys go to work, do people typically applaud? it's a nice feeling. It was a wonderful welcome. It does not happen, for example, when I go to the Republican caucus meeting. I see, slightly different. So here you are. Here I am.

You're two years in to your administration. And the question that arises in my mind, are we the people we were waiting for? Or does it turn out those people are still out there? And we don't have their number. How are you feeling about that? Well, you know, I'm feeling great about where the American people are considering what we've gone through. I mean, we've gone through the two toughest years of any time since the Great Depression.

And in light of that, the fact that people have been resilient, that folks are still out there working and opening businesses and working in the community, looking after their families, taking care of their responsibilities, that's encouraging. So there's still a lot of good stuff happening. But people are frustrated. A lot of folks are hurting out there still. And in that environment, I think that they're hoping that we can do a little bit better here in Washington

than we've been doing. Now, do you feel that as well? Because it is, you're coming from a place, you ran on very high rhetoric, hope and change, and the Democrats this year seem to be running on, please baby, one more chance. Now, how did we go in two years from hope and change, we are the people we've been looking for to, you're not going

to give them the keys, are you? Are you disappointed in how it's gone? Are you surprised that other people, even your base, can be disappointed, or do you reject that narrative? You know, look, when I won and we started the transition and we looked at what was happening in the economy a whole bunch of my political folks came up and said You know what? Enjoy this now because two years from now

folks are gonna be frustrating and That is in fact what's happened when you've got nine 9.6 percent unemployment, when folks are seeing their homes underwater, when the economy is growing but is still not growing as fast as it needs to to make up for the 8 million jobs that were lost, folks are going to be frustrated. And that's going to reflect itself in the political environment. But having said that, I look over the last 18 months and I say we prevented a second Great Depression. We've stabilized the economy. An economy that was shrinking is now growing.

We've got nine months of consecutive private sector job growth. We have passed historic health care reform, historic financial regulatory reform. We have done things that some folks don't even know about. What have you done that we don't know about? Well, are you planning a surprise party for us? Filled with jobs and health care. When you look at what we've done in terms of making sure that before we even passed healthcare, four million kids got health insurance that didn't have it before through the Children's Health Insurance Program.

Expanded national service, expanded national service more than at any time since the beginning of the Peace Corps, made sure that credit card companies couldn't jack up your rates without notice. Over and over again, we have moved forward an agenda that is making a difference in people's lives each and every day. Now, is it enough? No. And so I expect, and I think most Democrats out there expect, that people wanna see more progress.

But certainly in terms of the folks who voted for me, my expectation and hope is, is that if you look at the track record that we've accomplished in very difficult circumstances over the last 18 months, we have done an awful lot that we talked about during the campaign, and we're gonna do more in the years to come.

Well that's... Well that come. Well that's. Well that's. Well that's. Well that's. Earlier this week, I sat down with President Barack Obama for a wide-ranging conversation. We talked about the challenges facing the world, his message to young activists,

and workshopping slogans with Michelle. Enjoy. Are you gonna filibuster me? Because I don't have all the time. And you're very good at like. So is this like a roundabout way of saying you just want me to give short, pithy answer? No, I don't want short questions.

You want me to speed up? You want me to talk faster? No, no, no, no, please, Mr. President. I will not, I will not purposely filibuster, but sometimes I will have a pause as I'm formulating my thoughts, as you well know. Michelle, Michelle has been formulating my thoughts, as you well know. Michelle has been speeding up my audio book.

So I guess you can press a button so it plays like one and a half times. Yeah, you can do like 1.25 or one and a half, yeah. Yeah, you're a one and a half guy. You're definitely a one and a half guy. I was a little offended by that, but that's okay. That's fine. It doesn't communicate the depth of feeling

with which I'm doing the reading, but it's okay. How do you like being referred to, like, just as a human being? Do you like Mr. President? People call me Barack, but then sometimes some folks feel awkward doing it. Obviously, that's what my friends call me. So I consider you a friend, but you may feel, you know, so...

No, no, no, the people will feel like, like even Africans will, they'll write me letters saying, how dare you refer to... So I don't want to get you in trouble. So you can say, Mr. President... That makes sense. You can call me POTUS. My favorite one was Obisil.

That was my favorite. Please call me that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mr. President, welcome to the daily social distancing show. I am very happy to be here with you.

You're out there promoting a brand new book, A Promised Land, a 700 page book, if I may add. I love reading your stuff. Don't get me wrong, but like I would have like 350, 350. Why 700 pages? You know, I would have but like I would have like 350, 350, why 700 pages? You know, I would have broken it up even more, but you know, the publishers thought that bringing it up into two volumes would be about right.

And look, the goal of the book was to give people a sense of what it's like to be in the White House as a normal person, finding themselves in extraordinary circumstances. And I think part of the goal, particularly for young people, I wanted them to get a sense that not everybody is going to end up being president, but if you decide that your voice makes a difference, if you decide that your voice makes a difference, if you decide that you can have an impact, then through the ups and downs,

you will end up having some pretty extraordinary experiences. And I wanted it to be an encouragement for people to say, ah, you know, the guy, yeah, he's okay, but he's not so special. And look what he ended up doing. Maybe I can do something as well. It feels like this book is Barack Obama convincing Barack Obama to remain optimistic.

And what I mean by convincing Barack Obama, I think of like a young Barack Obama. I think of a fledgling Barack Obama. Not trying to emulate you per se, but rather anyone who's trying to make a change in the world or their world. That's what it feels like. If you are writing to young people

to be optimistic in the book, what are some of the frustrations that you understand on their side that may hinder that optimism? Because if a young person says, yeah, but this system right now is crumbling more and more, how do you maintain that optimism? Or do you think there has to be a point where they go,

I'm not optimistic, I'm just fighting to break what it is to create something new? Part of the reason that it's 700 pages long is because by reading the book, they'll see, man, there are a lot of structural problems or barriers in making this place better. We're learning right now in vivid, a vivid example of the fact that our democracy is not the way we would imagine it to be.

There are all kinds of elements to it where the most votes don't necessarily translate into the equivalent amount of power. Very popular proposals can wither on the vine because of a filibuster in the Senate. And so I don't try to gloss those over. The Paris Accord did not solve climate change, but it created the first global framework whereby all countries agreed we have to do something about this, and here's a mechanism to do it. You can still be terrified about the pace at which we are burning up the planet, and

yet think that was a worthwhile endeavor, because it gives us at least the opportunity maybe three, four, five years down the road to keep building on that. So that is the kind of mentality I want young people to have. A certain impatience, a certain frustration, a certain anger about the status quo. There are times now where you have younger activists criticizing me for Obama, why didn't you take care of this or that or the other? And I welcome them feeling frustrated and impatient, because that's how I was before I got started.

And then they'll get their own knocks on the head and some stuff won't work out exactly the way they want. But the impulse is the one that I want to encourage, because it's as a consequence of that constant striving and imagining something better, that things don't get exactly as we want it, but they get better. You're a very serious person,

because, I mean, you're a president of the United States, but at the same time, you're a lot more fun than a lot of people think, you know? I'm constantly trying to explain to people I'm a funny guy, but I don't know. But you really are, you really, really are. And what I liked in the book is there are moments where there's just like a roasting of people or life,

like the G20. I've never heard a world leader describe the G20 the way you do in the book, the high school of it all. I wondered on a personal level, have you maintained connections with those world leaders as like friends, like do you send Angela Merkel memes? Do you, like who are you still close with

just as a human being? You know, I don't send Angela Merkel memes, but I talk to her sometimes. Sometimes, you know, she'll give me a call, I'll give her a call and we'll trade notes. There are a handful of folks who you've been in the foxhole with, right? You've done some good important work. Some of them are still in power, so I don't want to mention that, you know, that I'm giving them a call because

who knows, that might get them in trouble. You mentioned somebody like Angela Merkel. Look, you know, the stance she took in Europe relative to immigration, and the enormous political costs she paid for that. And yet there was something inside her that said, look, I'm not going to simply abandon a million people who are in desperate need. You know, you see that in somebody and you say,

it encourages you that for all the cruelty and venality and corruption around the world, there are a lot of good people doing good work and some of them actually rise to significant positions of power. And in that sense, democracy can work the way it's supposed to. If we have a vigilant citizenry, and that's not always the case. You've started leadership programs, not just in South Africa, but all over the world. The Obama Foundation has set about on a journey

to inspire young people to grow up to become leaders. Growing up in South Africa, I was taught about the different levels of what a struggle is going to be. The freedom fighters may not necessarily be the best politicians. The best politicians may not necessarily be the best leaders.

The best activists may not be the best organizers and so on and so forth. Everyone has a role to play in trying to get to a certain place. And so I wonder, when you set up these, you know, this leadership academy that's all over the globe, you know, you're clearly trying to create

mini Obamas everywhere, which is probably like a fever dream of the right, but what you're trying to do is create something specific. And I would like to know what that is. What do you believe a leader is? Not just somebody who's in power, but a leader. The program we did in Johannesburg, we gathered up 200 young leaders from 50 countries on

the continent of Africa. And it was as varied, you had young women who had started rural health clinics. You had MPs who had taken a more conventional political route. You had entrepreneurs. The thing they all had in common, though, was this sense not only that the world could be better and that they had a role to play in it, but also the belief that they couldn't do it by themselves and that they had to, in some ways, unlock the potential and power of other people.

A speech I gave in Johannesburg in conjunction with that, it was for the anniversary of Mandela's 100th anniversary, where I contrasted that sort of democratic inclusive leadership to the strongman leadership that in some ways, we've seen ascendant in certain parts of the world, in some ways was ascendant here in the United States. And those are two different stories of what it means to be a leader and power. And that conflict, that battle between a more democratic, inclusive vision and one that's

top-down, dominant, subordinate, that's a contest that's taking place here in the United States and around the world. And it's not gonna be finished just because the election's over and Donald Trump was defeated, because you see examples of this in the Philippines, in Hungary, in a variety of countries, in Africa and Asia.

And so that contest is gonna continue. What I find fascinating about the conversation that a lot of Americans are having now, and you talk about this in the book as well, is how America's influence in the world has diminished over the past few years. You know, how countries around the world have no longer said, what is America doing?

We'll work with them. It's been more like, no, guys, we can't wait for America. We're doing our own thing. But I wonder, as somebody who has grown up in other parts of the world, as someone who has family in other parts of the world, is there an argument that maybe that's a good thing that the world doesn't follow America anymore?

Or what would the inverse of that argument be? Like should the world follow America? Or is it time for the world to start doing its own thing and America to be less the world police? I think it is a good thing that other countries catch up and have their own capabilities and their own agency. Yeah. That's not something that I think America should fear.

My argument would be that even in a more multipolar world where you don't have just one big power, but you have other countries who are coming into their own. The principles that America articulated at its best about rule of law, human rights, freedom of speech, democracy, those values, at least I choose to believe, are not exclusively American. You as somebody who lived in South Africa know

the play that in other countries sometimes you hear where somebody who's doing something entirely for power and money and influence will say, if they're criticized, they'll say, ah, you know, you've been just influenced by Western thinking. That's colonial thinking. No, no, no, no. You are stealing from your people.

And when we criticize, you don't claim that somehow this is some American hegemony being asserted against you. We're calling you on the fact that you're a thief. I think it's important for us to recognize that for all its failings, the values that America has often articulated on the world stage had been ones that I would still believe in

and that a lot of people took comfort from. And when we are not asserting them, oftentimes they don't, you know, they don't play out on the world stage. I sometimes wondered if you ever grappled with the difficulty of the paradox that America was creating in what it was trying to do in the world

and then what its actions were sometimes creating in the world, you know? I mean, I think about do in the world and then what its actions were sometimes creating in the world, you know? I mean, I think about that in the Middle East, you know, wars that have been started under false pretenses, people who have been killed, who had nothing to do, you know? And so I wonder as someone who had to make decisions

and someone who was in that leadership position, do you sometimes grapple with how America did or did not help itself in how it acted with the world? Because in the world, like I'll tell you as an international person, we would oftentimes go like, man, yes, America is great and it's doing wonderful things, but then you'd be like, but also, man, sometimes they just break the rules

and no one can say anything about it. Absolutely. Well, and I record examples in the book of where I'm grappling with this, right? And one of the interesting challenges of being president of the United States, but I think being head of government or state in any country is you inherit a legacy, right?

So if I come in as president and I can't undo the Iraq War, the decision to go into Iraq. and I can't undo the Iraq War, the decision to go into Iraq. Now I can manage as best I can how we can wind down that war, mitigate some of the damage that's been done, but I can't reverse it. Did you ever envy though how like Trump just came in and basically broke shit though?

Cause I mean, he didn't care. No, I didn't envy it because I do care. And I do not think that is an option to simply pretend that the legacy of problems or issues that you inherit are somehow things you can just brush aside. So the answer is yes. I would struggle with the fact that any action I took,

particularly when you're talking about, you know, counter-terrorism. That's probably the area where I wrestled with this most, because my obligation first and foremost in the United States was to make sure that people didn't get hurt. That's sort of the bare minimum that you expect out of a nation state that you're living in, is that you can defend against harm. Because you're dealing with non-state actors,

that meant that by the time I took office, you had networks that were embedded in societies, not necessarily supported by those societies, but they're there, and they are plotting and they're planning. And that wasn't made up. And there were organizations that if they could blow up the New York subway system they would. If they could get their hands on a biological weapon they would use it. You then are wrestling with how do I protect the American people from those actors, but do it in a way that is morally and ethically justified?

And war is madness. Kinetic action of any sort, military action of any sort that results in death and destruction at a certain level is not the thing I would want humanity to do. And what happens to people is tragic. It is not something you gloss over. What it does to our soldiers and our troops, as I talk about in the book. It's not just the harm that our young men and women suffered, and I would witness in Walter Reed, but it's also how it changes them internally when they have engaged in violence,

even if necessary and justified against others. So the best I could come up with was to never glorify it, to never pretend like it isn't a dilemma. And so those kinds of questions I think are ones that not only should American leaders have to grapple with, but I think the American people have to be aware of it. And sometimes the media does not do a very good job. It's a very binary, you know, the Iraq War, it's glorious for the first year and a half,

and then suddenly it's not. Yes. And we're shocked that us invading another country might turn out to be messy. Hopefully that's not a lesson we have to repeatedly relearn. Let's talk a little bit about, let's loosen things up. Let's unbutton one of those buttons on the shirt there. As someone who I consider to be one of the best deliverers of jokes and roasts,

are you gonna be more careful going forward about who you roast? And I say this because you roasted Donald Trump, he ran for president. You roasted Kanye West, he ran for president. So I don't know if you've noticed, but you have an ability to inspire people to run for the highest office in the land

with some of the jokes that you tell about them. Well, I should roast people, people I admire more. I'll start roasting you, man. Who knows? Although you weren't born here, so, you know. But look, I was able to get away with it apparently. I'll be fine. Yeah. Who knows?

Before I let you go, I wanted to know one last thing and that is being president of the United States is arguably the toughest job in the world. When you transition back to personal life, I wonder what that is like, because unlike you, I don't have that power. I've never been able to like just change a thing in the world or do something about it.

But now in many ways, you are like me, in that you see the thing on the TV and then you get angry or sad, but you cannot really do anything about it. And so I wonder as former president Barack Obama, have you transitioned into that completely or do you find different ways to try and fix the problems that you see in the world?

Well, first of all, I'm not anything like you. I still have a lot more influence than Clout. So let's just be clear. Come on, man. Come on. Let's try to keep things in perspective. I was hoping you'd just let that one slide. I was hoping you'd just be like, yeah, you know, Trevor, in many ways...

Oh, look, uh, the truth is that I did not have those kinds of withdrawals. And I know that there are people who I know who've had them when they leave public life and very visibly, you know, they wanna get back on stage. Yeah. Michelle and I, that's something we share. We feel good about the work we did.

We don't feel anxiety about not being the center of attention. We get frustrated, like I think citizens around the world and here in the country do, when we see something unjust or unfair. And yes, the goal I think for us is to find new ways to have that same impact, understanding that we'll never have the exact same impact

as you have in your office. But a lot of the work around the foundation is, you said create a lot of Obamas, I'm not sure that's the goal. But if 10 years, 20 years down the road, there are 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 young people who are now moving into positions of authority and power, and in some ways have been shaped by our example

in a positive way, that's a legacy that may exceed anything that we did while we were in our formal positions. And that feels pretty good. Well, I could talk to you for hours, but luckily I have a 700 page book to answer the rest of my questions. Thank you for joining me. Thank you for taking the time.

And yeah, thank you for being you, Mr. President, AKA Obizzle. Thank you for joining me on The Daily Social. I enjoyed it, man. We'll do it again. Volume two. Explore more shows from The Daily Show Podcast Universe by searching The Daily Show, wherever you get your podcasts.

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