The Daily Show: Ears Edition - TDS Time Machine | Third Party Politics

Episode Date: July 12, 2025

As Elon Musk announces the launch the America Party to challenge the Democrats and Republicans, take a look back at some other political third wheels in U.S. politics. Jon Stewart takes an open and honest look at America's other political parties. Independent Senator from Vermont Bernie Sanders sits down with Jon to talk about a third way. Wyatt Cenac helps Jon understand the difference between Republicans and Republicans. John O'Hara joins Jon to unpack the emergence of the Tea Party. Hasan Minaj, Desi Lydic and Adam Lowitt help Trevor Noah understand the third party presidential candidates. Independent candidates Gary Johnson and Evan McMullin join Jon and Trevor to discuss their own candidacies and what it means to run as an outsider in a two party system. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Adidas. When the frustration grows and the doubts start to creep in, we all need someone who has our back. To tell us we'll be okay, to remind us of our ability, to believe, because their belief in us transfers to self-belief and reminds us of all that we're capable of. We all need someone to make us believe. Hashtag, you got this.

What's better than a well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue? A well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue You got this. you're listening to Comedy Central. If you're one of the millions of Americans, American voters, who thinks this presidential race is about two candidates, think again. It's important to remember that our democracy consists of more than just Republicans and Democrats. So let's take an open and honest look at America's other parties, the scary, freaky ones. The most recognizable and significant third party is the Reform Party. Their mission is reform. They're hardworking Americans taking the process into their own hands. The right party is the cancer of this party. The right party is the cancer of this party.

Mr. Secretary, call the roll. That was the Reform Party. And it's all downhill from there. Then there's the Green Party, shaken by the departure of... Okay, enjoy your college education. Shaken by... Shaken by the departure of spiritual leader Al Green, the Green Party will be represented in this coming election by Ralph Nader, who at this moment is still talking on the abandoned

set of Donahue. Is that? And if the Green Party is too socially conscious for you, try the Girl Party. The Girl Party consists of girls between the ages of 17 and 20. They're having a sleepover because one of them got her hands on a bottle of Kahlua. Will they vote for me to come join them? I sure hope so. I've already made the dip.

Rounding out the major players is the Socialist Party with David McReynolds, serving as its candidate this year. You enjoy the benefits of socialism every time you go to a library or ride in a carpool. So good luck with that, David. So when making your decision on where to place your valuable vote, try to remember that in the past, third parties have always played an important role in presidential elections.

That of loser. What about my guest tonight? The independent United States Senator from the great state of Vermont. What about my guest tonight? The independent United States Senator from the great state of Vermont. His new book is called The Speech. An historic filibuster on corporate greed and the decline of our middle class. Please welcome to the program Senator Bernie Sanders. Thank you for joining us.

My pleasure. The book is called The Speech. It is actually just a relatively faithful transcription of the eight and a half hour, would you call it a mini filibuster that you delivered? It's a filibuster, full-fledged filibuster. A full-fledged. Eight and a half hours is real time, yeah. That's real time.

Yeah. And they don't do those anymore, really. No, no. They always say it. They profess they will, but they don't. Right. And you were basically using it to protest the budget deal that Democrats and Republicans reached on the tax cut, or not the tax cut, the budget cut. Well, what that was about was the agreement between the president

democratic leadership in the republicans which continued bush's tax breaks for the very very wealthy at a time of the huge deficit didn't make a whole lot of sense to me burning how can you how can you how can you punish the most productive amongst us with what I think we all know are job cutting and killing tax cuts? They are job producers, sir. I'm really quite shocked that you would go on record in this manner.

Well sorry to shock you, John. But the reality is that today we have a middle class which in many respects is collapsing. Median family income is declining in the last 10 years. We have lost 50,000 factories in this country, many of them shutting down, going to China, millions of good paying manufacturing jobs. And in the midst of all this, the wealthiest people on this country are doing phenomenally well. We have the top 1% earning more income than the bottom 50 percent.

The top 400 individuals in this country own more wealth than the bottom 150 million Americans. You're welcome. How have we been convinced? Because really the tax plate in this country is the lowest it's been since the 1950s. The income disparity is larger than it's been since, what is it, the 1920s, I guess they would say. So why have we been convinced

and why is the argument taking place on those terms? It is now seen as a fait accompli that to tax the high tax brackets, even back to Clinton rates of the 90s, which was very successful economically, that that is unacceptable. How has the debate been turned to that? Honestly, John, I think our right-wing friends and all of their moneyed interests have a lot of power in the media. They have their own television network. They control 90 percent of talk radio. And what they have done is done an excellent job in diverting attention away from the real

issues facing the American people. But this is not the, the, the, the, our left-wing friends or the, the Democrats are not fighting back with that either. The argument hasn't been that. The argument's been the Republicans think government's too big, they want to cut $60 billion, and the Democrats say, have 30. You're right. They have not in any way made an argument for efficiency,

accountability, where the money would go, addressing problems. Well, I think that's some of what I dealt with in the speech. But the issue, it seems to me, is with a $1.6 trillion deficit, it is insane to think that the only way you're going to move toward a balanced budget is by slashing college Pell grants, by cutting Medicaid, by converting Medicare into a voucher program, by cutting programs that working class people and middle class people desperately need.

And at the same time our Republican friends say, we're going to do all of these terrible things to the most vulnerable people in America, but you know what? We're not going to ask billionaires to pay a nickel more in taxes. I think that that is insane. It seems insane. Have the Democrats made the case? Here's what I fear now, is that the public has lost confidence in the government's ability to solve even the most basic common sense problems.

And I point to this even the Zadroga bill that we just found out yesterday that just as this thing was passing, a congressman snuck in an amendment that makes any first responder have to prove they're not a terrorist to get their money. Now, in that atmosphere, how can we make the case to people that this government or our government is competent enough to even make common sense changes to tax codes, to regulation, or is that a false premise? I would look at it in a different way. I'm not here to defend all aspects of government. God only knows there's an enormous amount of

incompetence and waste. But on the other hand, what we do take for granted is you have a social security system today which for 75 years has paid out every nickel owed to every eligible American, has reduced poverty among senior citizens from 50 percent to 10 percent. You've got a Medicare system. It has its problems. But there are millions and millions of seniors today who are alive and healthy because of

Medicare. You have Pell Grants which are enabling young people to get a college education who otherwise would not have so while we want to make sure the government is run efficiently and honestly let's not throw the baby out with the bad back well and let's not accept that republican line that we want to go back to the nineteen twenties when a handful of very wealthy people controlled it all we have fought for seventy years for rights of working

people you're seeing what's going on in Wisconsin. Even the right to collectively bargain for public employees is now being taken away. They want to do what some of them want to do with the concept of the minimum wage. Concept of the minimum wage. So I think what we have to do as a people is say, sorry, yeah, we've got to make government more efficient. But working people have rights. Healthcare should be a right of all people, not just the privilege of the wealthy.

We were just discussing Bobby Jindal's speech with more on the Republican response to Barack Obama's sort of State of the Union address. We turn to senior political correspondent Wyatt Sennack. Wyatt, thank you very much for joining us. Uh... Uh, Wyatt, Governor Jindal's speech has been drawing a lot of criticism. John, for you to suggest that's because of Jindal's race

is just inappropriate. I'm not... I was not suggesting that was because... Look, but where old people can only see skin color, I saw a new political dawn. John, for the first time in years, I'm excited about politics. For too long, this country's been in the iron grip of a deeply corrupted two-party system. But last night, we saw the emergence of a vibrant third party, the Republican Party has been around, they controlled the White House and Congress for

most of the last eight years. And I think they've been around for more than a century, some of them even individually, I believe. No, I see. You're thinking of the Republican Party, the guys who ran up the deficit with massive spending and multiple wars. Bobby Jindal hates those guys. Check it out. Republicans lost massive spending and multiple wars. Bobby Jindal hates those guys. Check it out.

-"Republicans lost your trust, and rightly so." -"Look at that. He nailed them." ["The Republicans are all about fiscal discipline." Why, he said Republicans lost your trust and rightly so, but Jindal is in the Republican Party. No, he's in the Republican Party. There's a difference. The Republicans are all about fiscal discipline,

not like those big-spending fat cats across the aisle. Man, did Jindal tear them a new one. You elected Republicans to champion limited government, fiscal discipline, and personal responsibility. Instead, Republicans went along with earmarks and big government spending in Washington. Ouch! Those Republicans have got a lot of work to do.

But this is a big opportunity for Republicans. Quiet. Look. Republican, repub, licking, repub, licking. It's all the same party. Do you even watch the news, John? The Republican Party has a black guy, an an Indian guy and a milfy wolf huntress All right, they're they're like the mod squad except their enemies are taxes and gays

Right again Taxes and gays those are the traditional enemies Right. I know it's so cool. Two parties who clearly can't stand one another can still come together when it comes to national security. All right, thank you, Wyatt. Wyatt Sinak, everybody, we'll be right back. We'll be right back.

We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Miller Lite, the light beer brewed for people who love the taste of beer and the perfect pairing for your game time. When Miller Lite set out to brew a light beer, they had to choose great taste or 90 calories per can.

They chose both because they knew the best part of beer is the beer. Your game time tastes like Miller time. Learn more at MillerLite.ca. Must be legal drinking age. Learn more at MillerLight.ca. Must be legal drinking age. My guest tonight is with the Illinois Policy Institute. His new book is called A New American Tea Party,

the counterrevolution against bailouts, handouts, reckless spending, and more taxes. Please welcome to the program John O'Hara. Sir. Thank you for joining us. I'm John O'Hara. I'm a former president of the Illinois Public Health Association. I'm a former president of the Illinois Public Health Association. Sir! Thank you for joining us. The police called a new American tea party.

I'm going to ask you a question, and I want an honest answer off the bat, sir. And I expect an honest answer. Are you, sir, an elderly racist? Are you going to overthrow this very government? No, John, and it's, you know, folks laugh and it's a good question because as you very well know, the media has a way of creating some interesting narratives. They enjoy conflict. I think they enjoy the sensationalized aspects of things. So they'll seize on it. But when I met you, how old are you? I'm 25.

You know, kids today, you should be out smoking pot in a foreigner t-shirt, quite frankly. How did this come to pass that you wrote this book? Well, I got involved back last year, February of last year after that famous Santelli on air rant about he got up on the Chicago border trade and started talking about the moral hazard of bailing out irresponsible corporations. And a lot of folks, and he called for a tea party. And a lot of folks said, hey, a tea party and a lot of folks said hey

You know what if we really got one of these together and a couple friends and I got on the phone So I was gonna be in DC in a about a week later And now is it have you found that it has been infiltrated you you set this up you start working with your friends And now do you find when you go to a meeting? There's maybe a heavyset guy older gentleman in the back He's like I'm with the GOP come come l p come come visit it it feels like either they're trying to co-opted it's natural brethren

i think that in many ways you know the g o p might be nine times at ten uh... natural vehicle for for some of these ideas but the the new thing is we we have this empirical evidence from a handful polls in the last month uh... this movement is made up of Republicans, Democrats, and independents. They're very all independently minded. There's a lot of anger towards Republicans and Democrats. It's really an incumbent. See, I probably read the data a little bit. It feels like when they talk about it, it's mostly very conservative leaning people. Depending on which poll, about 58% or so Republican the rest independent Democrats man which is a far cry from you know the media

narrative that's 99% Democrats are somehow 99% Republicans are not GOP run and when you say conservative conservative economically I mean the the the concerns we found the social views to be I think it's it's very I think it's I know in terms of what really did you get into this to get laid? Is that it, my brother? Here's where I believe there may be some confluence. I've read the book, progressives and the left are generally, do not come off favorably, in it. What if we looked at it, it seems like the big concern for the Tea Parties is the protection of liberty. Would that be accurate?

I think that's a big part of it is liberty, but another big part of it is really is the role of government. And I think a lot of people feel in the Tea Party movement, and this is actually reflected in the broader public, that the government is taking on too much and doing too much. Here's my point. I believe in the government. Do you believe the government is the sole enemy of liberty, I guess I would say? No.

In many ways, the government can be the protector of liberty, but there's a role for it. Look, this is another big misconception about the Tea Party. It's not anti-government. People believe that there's a role for government. It's just what that role should be. I think it's a very healthy debate that we're having. This is, I think, my point. I believe the government can play a role.

I think we've been given a false choice between tyranny and anarchy. Do you understand what I'm saying? Why not try competent government intervention? As a, just to throw it out there. To see, because everybody's comfortable with them running the military. Let's bring the same urgency to them running other things. People have been very satisfied with Medicare over, you know, 60 years is a long time to last for a program.

Well, and so, well, Social Security is is a long time to last for a program. Well, and so, well, Social Security is bankrupt. It's essentially a Ponzi scheme. But it's been, I mean, for a program to last 70, 80 years to the great satisfaction of its citizens, there's no question it needs reform. Right. But why throw out the baby? What would you have government do?

Oh, I would have government do a lot of things. There's things it does. And in fact, it's not about anti-government. It's that there's a core role for government. For example, let's take the Obamacare debate. No question our health care system needs reform. The question is, is putting more power to the government. Isn't Obamacare, by the very nature of you using the phrase,

derogatory, rather than saying, let's talk about this new health care reform? Sure. Well, that's how it's popularly discussed, though. Well, let's talk about this new healthcare reform sure well that's how it's popular discussed though well let's talk about the way they popularly discuss tea party movement why don't we use the same rules well it's it's not I don't think that's a slam it's a moniker that it's been given because it was his John John John, John. Let's call it the healthcare book. Why don't I call it the tea bagger book? I don't think it's a slam. It's not a slam. It's just something I said.

Well, one is an obscure sexual fetish, the other one is a guy's name. Okay, don't say obscure. But look, there's no question there's a role of government, it's what that role should be. And go into the healthcare debate. A lot of people feel that, most people feel that there's a role for government to help the poor and disadvantaged among us get quality access to healthcare. The question is, is this bill the way to do it? And a lot of people feel it wasn't. And listen, that sounds pretty reasonable. I think part of the problem is the language of the discussion is that

it's tyranny. What I hear a lot is it's government tyranny and I think it's confusing tyranny with losing an election. My point of view was not, but I don't mean that disrespectfully, my point of view was not represented over the last eight years. Bush went to war in Iraq. I didn't want that. I didn't think it was tyranny. I just thought it was a mistake and i was hoping that in the next election we could change it that's why and and and of course you had that fringe element at anti bush uh... rally absolute imit calling him would you say though that the tyranny

thing the undemocratic nature i mean it's sprinkled throughout your book as well there in the in the idea and when what particular sense that his policies are undemocratic that they that they go against the will of the tape Take the healthcare bill the majority of Americans were opposed to that and I think they had a Most polls yet were opposed to this particular. No, you can't use the majority of Americans were opposed to us staying in Iraq Him leaving us there wasn't undemocratic you elect a commander-in-chief for four years Of course you you elect. You elect public officials,

and you give them the responsibility to these things. But I think in many ways they've sorted that. Many incumbents have stepped over that. And look, Republicans and Democrats do it alike. I think people felt, particularly with this bill, that it was done in a way. It was very quick. It was, you know, we're not, we'll find out. Nancy Pelosi, well, the final version.

Nancy Pelosi said, we'll find out what's in it after it's passed. It was the longest throat shove in the history of throat shuffles. Well, listen, here's the thing. It's a dialogue that needs to happen without all those pejoratives and without all those things. And I really do appreciate doing it. And you seem like a very genuine cat, a very nice guy. And I appreciate you coming out to do it.

And it is, listen, I think it's an interesting read and read it, learn about it for yourselves and separate it, but I really appreciate you coming by. And I'm sorry we ran out of time and that I've been sweating the entire time I've been talking to you. Not a problem, it was a great dance. All right, well thank you very much.

It's great to see you. A new American Tea Party, it's on the bookshelves now. John O'Hara. ["The New York Times"] As much York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, The New York Times, Thank you everybody. Thank you so much for joining guys. Hassan, let's start with you. How does a dissatisfied voter decide between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump? Well, it's easy Trevor, you don't. Why choose between Coke and Pepsi

when you can have Diet Shasta? I'm talking about libertarian nominee, Gary Johnson. I'm sorry, Hassan, who? Trevor, Johnson is an experienced entrepreneur. He's former governor of New Mexico, and he's so legit that he calls himself Honest Johnson. Honest Johnson sounds like the worst porn name ever. Okay, well, I think we need some more honesty

in the bedroom. Oh, you know what, Hassan, I have heard about this candidate. I mean, this is the same guy who's really open about smoking weed all the time, right? I don't know if Americans want their president to be high in the Situation Room. Hey, look, if America had a president who smoked weed, maybe we wouldn't be so quick to go into war all the time.

Like, imagine if George Bush would have been high. Would we have gone into Iraq? I think you still would have gone in just a lot slower. Yeah, but Gary Johnson is against gun control. Yeah, that's what being a libertarian means. No government anywhere. They won't raise my taxes, regulate my businesses, or tell me I can't marry a Sasquatch.

Okay, you know, that last, did you say Sasquatch? This is ridiculous. Desi, surely you don't agree with this madness. No, first of all, good luck finding a Sasquatch that's single, okay? And secondly, I don't want a president who I share a weed dealer with. There's a perfectly good candidate out there

who happens to be a woman and I am with her. Of course, Hillary Clinton. No, Dr. Jill Stein. Hillary doesn't own her. You see, Trevor, the Green Party nominee is pledging to move America to 100% renewable energy and cancel all student debt. She's the perfect progressive candidate.

If Hillary and Bernie had sex and someone watched it, that person would be Dr. Jill Stein. Are you kidding me? A candidate who's skeptical about vaccines? Oh, is someone afraid of polio? I am. Okay, look, maybe Hassan is right about the vaccines, and Desi is right that Hassan's being a little bitch about it.

Um, but that's not the only thing, Desi. Dr. Stein is also very suspicious of Wi-Fi. There's a video making the rounds now, it's being reported out, in which you appear to say that broadband internet access in schools, Wi-Fi, is somehow having an adverse health effect on children's brains. Many countries, and including the European

regulatory agency, have seen fit to protect vulnerable people from that sort of radiation. I am not saying that the science is done on this, rather that the science has just begun. So, Desi, your reply to that? Well, I don't know what's so strange about that, Trevor. Dr. Jill Stein is just saying she wants to do more research on Wi-Fi. And how am I supposed to research Wi-Fi without Wi-Fi? Aww, someone doesn't have an unlimited data plan.

I don't actually... Hello, can I please say something? Please, Adam, go ahead, go ahead. Yeah, are we really having this conversation? Honest Johnson or Dr. Dial-Up, you know? Like, everyone knows who America needs. Evan McMullen. Sorry, who? Who?

Just roll the clip. Former CIA operative Evan McMullen launching an independent bid for the White House. McMullen is being funded and helped by GOP members unhappy with Trump. That's a real choice there, Trevor. Evan McMullen is being funded and helped by GOP members unhappy with Trump. That's a real choice there, Trevor. Evan McMullen. Adam, are you supporting McMullen

because you guys look exactly the same? Wow. Wow. So all bald people look alike to you, huh? Yeah, actually, to be honest, they do. I think so, too. It's crazy, right be honest, they do. I think so too. It's crazy, right? I once got mistaken for Ving Reims. What?

I know. Well, thank you so much to our panel. We came into this discussion talking about two candidates. We came out realizing that there were actually five people who could become president of the United States. Whoa! Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on, Trevor.

I said you can vote for Gary Johnson, but there is no way he can win this election. Voting Gary Johnson is as useless as me getting TSA PreCheck. I'm still getting that random search. Yeah, yeah. I think Jill Stein is great, but the truth is America is a two-party system, so voting for Jill Stein is like throwing pennies in a wishing well. It's fun to say what you wish for,

but that doesn't mean it's gonna come true. Yeah, I don't even remember my guy's name. Oh! Evan... Evan McMullen. Who? The guy you were talking about earlier. You mean Ving Rhames? All right, you know what? We're gonna have to cut it there.

Thank you so much for wasting everyone's time. Give it up for the correspondents one more time, everybody. We'll be right back. I said... -♪ The Daily Show theme music plays. -♪ My guest tonight... he is the former governor of New Mexico. He is now the libertarian candidate

for president of the United States. Please welcome to the program Governor Gary Johnson. -♪ The Daily Show theme music plays. -♪ Hello. Thank you. -♪ The Daily Show theme music plays. -♪ Nice to see you. Good to be here. Now, you, so you are now the libertarian nominee. I'm the libertarian nominee.

I'm going to be one of three candidates on the ballot in all 50 states, Obama, Romney being the other two. So you're, this is, this is big dog stuff. This is how did they approach you? Did they, you were running in the Republican primary or trying to get on the? Yeah, kind of a mutual thing. I mean, they asked me if I would consider running

and for the most part I think I'm delivering a message of liberty and freedom very much along the same lines as Ron Paul. I don't think Ron Paul's gonna be successful getting the nomination. I wish him luck. The Republican nomination. Republican nomination.

So that message goes away when his candidacy comes to an end. And who's to say it comes to an end? I mean, I still wish them all luck. Was there any thought that he would then go to, did they ever talk to him, or is there a talk of the two of you? Is there any of that kind of?

No, none of that going on. Ron Paul asked for my endorsement in 2008. I readily gave that endorsement. And when I dropped out of the Republican Party, I asked everyone that was going to vote for me to vote for Ron Paul. And, uh... But, like I say, I think that's going to come to an end. Libertarian, very interesting,

because Democrats and Republicans both seem to agree with half of it. Yeah. Yeah. But the opposite halves. No, I-I with half of it. Yeah. But the opposite halves. No, I got it. It's like one of those friendship necklaces that has like the half. And each one has a half and if they put it together, oh my God, a libertarian.

Well, I think so. The notion that most people in this country are fiscally responsible, socially tolerant, I'm in that group, I think most Americans are in that group. Libertarian candidates are going to come at Obama from the left and going to come at Romney from the right. Kind of that necklace that you're talking about. So nobody sees this coming. That's what I'm saying.

Why is it that the Libertarian candidates have trouble then gaining traction? Because even you were saying in presidential politics, no one's gotten more than 1%. But there is very popular policy When you were saying in presidential politics, no one's gotten more than 1 percent, but there is very popular policy within those party platforms. No, I totally agree. I totally agree that there are more libertarians, people that declare themselves libertarians,

than vote libertarian. Right now, though, you have an unprecedented amount of people in this country saying they would consider voting for a third-party candidate. We'll see if that takes place. But more important than anything is the message. I mean, the notion that let's end the war in Afghanistan. Let's bring the troops home. Let's not bomb Iran.

Let's end the drug wars. Let's balance the federal budget. These are important issues that, you know, half are embraced by the Democrats, half seem to be embraced by the Republicans. What holds it back? Here's what I think holds it back. And people say like, everybody is for, I'm for making my own choices. And then people screw up.

Because you are, let's face it, you're a marathoner, you've climbed mountains, you're a governor. Not all of us can do that. Some of us like Doritos or... I do too, by the way. But what I'm suggesting is, is Libertarian, is that a good party for people that are perhaps not as able? You know, one of the things that always struck me is, do Libertarians put too much trust in us?

Are we impressive? Have the two parties gotten so out of touch? Have they gotten so out of touch? And paper, rock, scissors. I mean, if we elect a Republican or a Democrat, is there really going to be a difference four years from now? I don't know if there's really going to be a difference. Well I would say there was in the, you know,

the difference between, let's say, George Bush and whoever the Democrat was, or the difference between Obama and who the Republican is, I think is... Well, and then you're... There's a good distance there. Is that distance, though, along the lines of what people might want?

But I don't necessarily believe that both parties are identical. Each has their own, their own strength and weakness. Well absolutely and like I say historically I think people have embraced the Democrat Party because they're good on civil liberties. I'm gonna I'm gonna make the case that I'm better on civil liberties than Obama. Historically I think Republicans are about dollars and cents the checkbook historically Republicans are good in that category, but I'm going to make the case that

I'm better than Romney when it comes to dollars and cents. Now, that's the case that I'm going to try and make. How do you make that case? How do you get onto the debate? How can you become like Ross Perot did and get included in the national debate? So the notion here is to actually win the race. I mean, that's the pie in the national debate. So the notion here is to actually win the race. I mean, that's the pie in the sky notion. To do that, I've got to poll at 15%

to get on the national debate stage with Obama and Romney. Right now, I'm polling at about 8% against the two of them. OK, hold on. I think more important than the... I'm just working this out. Well, the biggest ingredient in my being at 8% is the fact that I'm the third name being listed. Not so much me, but the opportunity exists that people recognize there are going to only be three candidates on the ballot in all 50 states. You've got to get to 15%. Whose rule is that?

That's the Presidential Debate Commission that established that as a result of Ross Perot. Oh really? Yeah. Because they went like, we don't want another crackpot in here. Guys coming in here and going like, hey, what you gotta do? So let's set a 15% threshold. And anyway, lots of opportunity to change the world a little bit. Have you found when you're talking to people, they're more open to it when you go out and you go, you know, there's also RC Cola, also very tasty.

Like when you talk to people, do they, right, do they say like, oh my God, I never tasted libertarianism, let me, oh, oh. That's the opportunity, the notion that perhaps libertarians embrace what most people actually philosophize. You know, it's one thing to philosophically be in tune with the libertarian party. It's another thing to actually point out the problems that face the country. I think a homeless person could do those same things, but I think you have to have a resume to actually do this.

I'm posing myself as having that resume also. Having served two terms as governor of New Mexico in a state that's two to one Democrat and taken on issues that I think were really important and politics be damned. I'm glad that you gave those impressive credentials because at first I thought what you were saying was, hey man, I'm better than a homeless guy. Like, I wasn't sure at first where you were going with this. It sounded like you were saying, like, look, a homeless guy could do what I'm doing right now,

what I'm just saying. But then you get- Homeless guy could point out the problems. Homeless guy could maybe even point out the solutions. But I don't know- There's a guy on my corner who's doing it all day and all night. Turns out it's Eleanor Roosevelt's fault.

Well, Governor, I wish you well. Have you had good success meeting with the people and starting to generate some enthusiasm? Well, yes. I mean, that's what it's all about. I have seen nothing but increased crowds, increased appetite for what it is that I have to say I wouldn't be doing this if that weren't the case. This show? A couple people watched it. Yes, that I have to say. I wouldn't be doing this if that weren't the case. This show. Couple people watching.

Yes, I was gonna say. This show's not gonna help that much, but it's a start is what I'm saying. Call Brian Lamb. Governor Gary Johnson, ladies and gentlemen, libertarian candidate. Go, Gary. He's out.

He's out. My first guest is a former CIA operative, the former House Republican Chief Policy Director and 2016 independent presidential candidate. Please welcome Evan McMullen. Welcome. Thank you for being here. Let's jump straight into it. Real quick, for those who don't know you, I mean, you were a name or a face that I wasn't

familiar with during this race, and then when it got really deep into the election, all of a sudden, you came out of nowhere and you said, I'm running, I'm a conservative, and I'm running to oppose Donald Trump. That's right. Why did that happen? Well, it happened because somebody from the conservative

side needed to stand up and oppose Donald Trump's bigotry and his threat to our system, this threat to our democracy. It couldn't only be Hillary Clinton. Standing up for the most fundamental ideals upon which this nation was founded, number one, that all men and women are created equal, and number two, that we have liberty, we have rights that come from the fact that we're humans, not from the government and not from any leader. Donald Trump does not dictate what our rights are.

Our rights come with us when we arrive on earth here, and the government's role is to protect them. Now, it's interesting... It's interesting that you used the word dictate because we... No, we made a joke on the show about Trump as an African dictator, but you worked as a CIA operative,

which I'm assuming means spy. Which makes you look like Jason Bourne kicked you out of a window somewhere. Like you have, no, you've got that look, like the guy who's like, you look like you blend into a crowd and you fight with Jason Bourne. But you've worked all over the world for the CIA. And what really interested me is I read your op-ed

in the New York Times where you wrote about the fact that you've seen leaders like Trump all over the world. What does that mean? Well, yes, I mean, I served all over the world, especially in South Asia and the Middle East and Africa, and there I saw authoritarians and I saw how they operate, what they do. The most important thing to understand about an authoritarian is that an authoritarian

is uncomfortable with any threat to his or her power. And that could be the law, for example, the Constitution in our case. That could be other leaders. It could be other branches of government. It could be cultural leaders, it could be other branches of government, it could be cultural norms, democratic norms, it could even be the expectation of consistency or common decency. All of those things threaten in the mind of an authoritarian their power. What they want is for everything they say right now, their latest whim, to be supremely

important. And so if they undermine or destroy all of those restraints or other sources of power, that inflates their power or grows their power at our expense. And so I see that in Donald Trump. I saw that during the campaign. I certainly see that now post-election. So who knows what will come next?

This is where I'm confused. So I go, Evan, you are a conservative. You are running for president. I go, help me and my viewers understand the difference between a principled conservative and Donald Trump. So I go, so with regards to, let's say, a ban on Muslims, what is your view on that?

Well, it's absolutely counterproductive and runs counter to everything we should believe in in this country are foundational principles. I've opposed that publicly over and over again. So with regards to, let's say, climate change, because I mean, the official stance now of Donald Trump and his administration is that this is, they said, a load of bunk, I believe, and it does not exist.

Is that a conservative standpoint? Is that a Donald Trump thing? Well, a lot of Republicans hold that and it does not exist. Is that a conservative standpoint, or is that a Donald Trump thing? Well, a lot of Republicans hold that view. I don't, I think the climate is changing. I think we are contributing to that, and I think we need to take action in response to it. And we can debate how to do that. Yes.

But yes, but you know what, I think there's something, I mean, that's an important issue, don't get me wrong. Yeah. But we've got to fight for liberty and equality in this country. We can debate these kinds of things, which are important, don't get me wrong, we have so many important challenges in this country.

But there's a real opportunity for those of us on the right and the left who are still standing for the truth that all men and women are created equal, regardless of the color of their skin, or their faith, or their gender. Those their skin or their faith or their gender, those of us who are still standing for that and standing for liberty, for our basic freedoms, we need to stand together right now

because we have a president coming into the White House who may be an authoritarian. Now, let's see what happens when he actually gets there. But every data point we've seen so far essentially suggests that he will be an authoritarian. Let's unite. We will have these political debates on these other issues. They're important, don't get me wrong,

but this is a different kind of moment here, I fear. You know what it sounds like you're saying? Like when you watch Independence Day and those movies, and the people are like, I know we have our differences, but the aliens are coming. Right now we can all agree that the aliens are gonna kill us all. That's what... I hope it's not that bad.

That's pretty much what it sounds like. But you know what? I would love to have you back on the show. I'm sure we won't agree on everything, but I'm glad you came on and I appreciate your voice. Thank you very much. Likewise. Explore more shows from The Daily Show Podcast Universe

by searching The Daily Show, wherever you get your podcasts. Watch The Daily Show weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount Plus. This has been a Comedy Central podcast.