The Daily Show: Ears Edition - The Cost of Gentrification in Brooklyn - Beyond the Scenes

Episode Date: September 13, 2022

The number of white Brooklyn residents has increased over the years while Black residents have been displaced. Host Roy Wood Jr. sits down with Daily Show segment producer, Jordana Hemingway and urban planner and Pratt Institute professor, Ronald Shiffman to discuss how gentrification directly impacts the displacement of people and culture, the relationship between gentrification and policing, and how people moving into Brooklyn neighborhoods can be part of responsible change. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. What up? It's Roywood Jr. Next, you're about to hear a special presentation of the Daily Show podcast that I host called Beyond the Scenes. Now, all it is, it's very simple. If it's a topic that's already been on the Daily Show, we talk about it again, and we go even deeper on the topic and, you know, see where we are now on the issue, get deeper into the origins of the problem, and we do that with Daily Show producers,

writers, correspondence, and expert guests who know a hell of a lot more about it than us to help us break it down. Have a listen. Have a listen. Hey, welcome to Beyond the Scenes. The podcast that goes deeper into segments and topics that originally aired on the Daily Show with Trevor Nol. That's what you got to think of this podcast is. All right, you got apple pie. Everybody love apple pie, right?

It's warm, crispy apple pie. It's good by itself. This podcast is the Allah Mode. You get that extra scoop of ice cream on that apple pie and they take it to the next level, baby. Listen, now we're going to be talking about a recent segment on the show about gentrification, specifically in Brooklyn, and how the people, landscape, and culture of places like that, have changed over the years.

Give it a clip. According to the latest census, the white population is decreasing nationwide. For the first time the white population in the United States has declined. But there's one place their numbers are up almost 9%. Brooklyn. This wealthy white migration has led to increases in rent, cost of living, and request to speak to the manager. So I follow the trail of succulent in West Anderson DVDs deep into the den of gentrifying Brooklyn.... the world. the the world. the th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. the. the. the. tipe. tipe. thi. tipe. tipe, tipe, tipe, tipe, tipe, the first first the first the the first the the, the, the, the, the, th. Fore, th. Fore, tipe, th. tipipipe, tipe, tipipe, t. t. t. t. tome. tome. tipe. tipe. tipe. tipe. tipe. tipe. tipe. tipe. tipe. tipe. tipe. tipe. tipe. tipe. tipe. tipe. tipe. tip to the manager. So I follow the trail of succulent in West Anderson DVDs deep into the den of gentrifying Brooklyn,

where I set down with Tommy Hollow. The white population has gone up almost 9%. The black population has gone down almost 9%. Would it be safe to say that that's how they're showing Black Lives Matter by just moving them out to somewhere else. What they're doing is they're just buying it out and cleaning out the neighborhood and it's not right. Tommy's lived in Brooklyn his entire life.

Everything's going up sky high and it's harder to live. So the way out is to sell the house. Tommy's mother bought their brownstone in 1963 when black home ownership in Brooklyn was booming. But lately, black mortgages have been going the way of the Dodo Bird. Today I'm joined by Daily Show segment producer and Brooklyn Knight. Jordana, how are you doing today? I'm great, thank you.

Well, good to see you. Good to see you, Madam Brooklyn Knight. And also joining us is a pioneer in urban planning and a professor at Pratt Institute, Ron Schiffman. How you doing, Professor? I'm doing really great. I'm really happy to be with you. Well, we appreciate you for helping us break down this very, very difficult topic. You know, Jordan, let's start with you. The thing that I've always loved about the Daily Show is that everybody has the freedom to pitch. It's not set up in some structured system where you do not pitch, you only produce with this pitch. It's like, no.

If you come in the building with an issue and you can go, guys, I'm noticing this, then it's something that could eventually work its way onto the show as it did with this. So walk us through your inspiration and how this segment came thiiii. their. thi. thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi, thi, thi, thin, thi, thi, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thi, thi, thin, thin, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th.... So, th. So, th. So, th. So, th. So, th. So, th. So, th. So, thi, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin. And, thi. And, thin. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And came together. Well it was very personal so I just bought my house but that home buying process was very difficult and I was I wanted to be in Brooklyn I did not want to go to Queens I didn't want to go to New Jersey I was just like no I will not leave Brooklyn this is where I grew up and I started noticing on the trains that like more white people were like getting off later and later on the train stops and then I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I th th th th th th th th th th th. the th. the their their the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the theeee theeeeeeeeee theeeee the the the the the the thi thi trains that like more white people were like getting off later and later on the train stops. And then I started to realize, and I was like, wait a minute, you know, what's going on here? And then I started realizing that there was all these developments, but I couldn't afford these houses. I couldn't get in and I'm like, you know, I have a decent job and I'm just like, why are we being pushed out? And at that point point th th th th th th th th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi thi thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, that, that, that, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. And, like, th. And, th. And, th. And, the, the, the, th. And, the, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, like, like, like, like, like, to. And, like, to. And, like, like, like, to. And, like, like, like, to. And, like, like, to. And, like, to. And, like, th. And are we being pushed out? And at that point it saw this article where the white population decreased

everywhere else in the United States except Brooklyn, New York. And I said, aha, this is what's happening. this is what's happening. this is what's happening. I'm not crazy. I'm not seeing things. I'm not being you know going on the conspiracy rabbit hole. No this is what's happening. and black people are selling their homes because it's very tempting when you have a developer flyer in your house saying they'll give you hundreds of thousands if not millions to buy your land and therefore it's just like a rabbit hole where you just kind of keep going down the same thing over and over. It was frustrating. So I always try to pitch things and as you mentioned the daily show we are allowed to pitch whatever. And that's one thing that is great about working here. And I try to pitch things that are very personal to me

because that's when I can get my teeth in it. And I'm like, okay, no, I'm trying to buy a house. Let me figure out what's going on. And that's how it came about. You were hired during the toooo'n, and th, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, th, thi, thi, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, I office space. But once we got back in the office, you know how you just know somebody? Oh yeah, Jordan, good to see you. But then when I went out to talk with Tommy Holly,

who was one of the subjects in the piece, it was evident to me at that moment. I was like, oh, does she live on this street? Because for a segment producer to also come out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out. to to to to to to to to to to the to to to to to to to to to to, to, to to, to, to to to to, to, the the the the to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th... th. th. the, the the, the, to, the to, too, too, too, too. tooome. tooom. tooom. too. tooom. too. too. too. too, too, a segment producer to also come out on shoots, it's not uncommon, but it is not a regular occurrence. And so for you to be there and to see the camaraderie between you and Tommy between camera set-ups and all of that stuff, talk a little bit about how you became so close to the people in in Brooklyn. Well, so a little background to even go further So I am married and my husband is African-American slash Puerto Rican, right? And I saw this happen to him when his grandma Who came from South Carolina? They saw that house in Crown Heights and now sometimes if we're in the neighborhood

We drive by it and it's you know condos a million dollars right and we're like damn that was where we used to live that was like his first college apartment and then fast forward you know he has relatives and Tommy is one of those guys in the neighborhood that's always around right so we know him he's always on a block with his stick and he's just a very cool dude so we always used to talk to him and it started getting around that like you know people all over that block were basically considering selling their homes and then I started noticing changes. I their their their their their their their their their their their their. I th. I th. I th. I'm like like like like like like like like like like like like like like, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. And, th. And, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, tom. And, tom. And, tom. And, tom. And, tomorrow, thi. And, thi. And selling their homes. And then I started noticing changes. I'm like, okay, well, there's less cookouts now. People are not as friendly, you know? Block parties?

Yeah, block parties, right? There was less with those. It's gone. And I was just frustrated. I was frustrated with the home buying journey. I was frustrated with not enough homes. Like, right now, this day, America's 5 million homes short of demand, right? So there's 5 million homeowners that are looking for home that cannot, you know, buy. In New York, it's just, even you see the videos on TikTok and Snapchat where people are online

trying to rent apartments. And there's always that joke of like, you know you can make it here you can make it anywhere but it shouldn't be like that in New York you know New York used to be a community you should be able to go to your corner store and know your neighbor's name and know you know so and so so down the block and I just feel like even in college I just felt like that that was that was missing and I think what we have to be to be to be to be to be to be th. thi a thi. thi. that that that thi. that that that that that that that thi. that that that that that thi. that that that that that that that that that that that that that thi. that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. t. tha tha. tha. tha. I. tha. try. tha. I. tha. to. to. I. the. th. try. And I think what we have to be careful of with the word justification because it sounds so dirty, right? It sounds really bad. But as black people, we have to gentrify our own blocks. Our blocks are beautiful, right? It's we could judge our own blocks. We could call 311, I mean on like, hey,

listen, they need to pick up this trash not call 3-1 on your neighbor right we could actually you know plant more trees and I just think that there's always this resentment like oh well they only did it when white people came in and sometimes that's true because sometimes police don't pay attention to the to the natives of that block until more money is being invested into it yeah so it's kind of frustrating and that's why I was just like listen here here to to to the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi's thi's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi. I thi. I'm thi. I'm thi. I'm just thi. I'm just thi. I'm thi's always always always always always the they. I's always always always there's there's there's there's it's kind of frustrating and that's why I was just like, listen, here is a segue, this is kind of funny, that the white population is kind of decreasing everywhere else. This has daily show written all over it, but let's talk about the meat and potatoes. So that's why it came out. Ron, when we talk about gentrification, just as a phenomenon for our listeners. First and foremost, can you define it?

Let's just start right there. Let's define gentrification for our listeners. And also, what are some of the indicators that gentrification is starting to happen? Like, I know once you get a whole food, stuff is happening when the bodega selling almond milk, you see one of them hacky sack boys. Can't trust nobody with a hacky sack. But let's define gentrification. What gentrification means to me is when one group of people begin to move in, particularly white people,

begin to move into a neighborhood and displace people. Displaced people, displaced jobs, and displace culture. And to me, that is something that one has to fight against. The fact that the area improves economically and provides opportunity for people who live there to make new connections and to live a better life, to me is a goal in life. And Jordan, I think, expressed it much better than I could.

What really scares me is that people want to find out, what are the indicators of gentrification before they want to do anything about it. And if you study it and you come up with the database to prove that gentrification is occurring, you've already lost the community. And the way to deal with gentrification or with displacement issues, which I think are really the most important one, and as Jordan alluded to, also a housing program, we need to build housing that people can afford, and that housing is too often thought of as a commodity and

not really as a right. How do you really build those communities? How do you really address that? Well, the way, the way, the way, the way, the way, the way, the way, the way, the way, the way, the way, the way, the way, the way, the way, the way, the way, the way the way the way the way the way the way the way to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to deal to deal to deal to deal to deal to deal to deal to deal to deal to deal to deal to deal to deal to deal to deal to deal to deal to deal to deal to deal to deal to deal to deal the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the waya the waya the waya the waya toea, toea, to deal the way to deal the way the way to deal to deal thought of as a commodity and not really as a right. How do you really build those communities? How do you really address that? Well the way to know that your area is gentrifying is to talk to the people there, is to see what's going on on the streets, to go to the supermarkets and the storefronts and the commercial strips and to see how it breathes. And when I go through neighborhoods, whether it's Bushwick or Red Hook or others, it's palpable that change is taking place. People are afraid. People are afraid. In Bushwick we were working with a team of people, Make the Road a number of years ago, a really great group that organizes that engages new immigrant populations in the, in the everyday life of the city.

And people didn't want to see the parks improved. They were afraid that if they got a better park, if they had safer streets and better schools, that they wouldn't live there anymore, that it would be for somebody else. And that is a condition that we can't accept. We have to arrive at a point where people can improve the quality of their neighborhood and have the choice to stay, not be pushed out for economic reasons. In many ways, and a friend of mine by the name of Carl Anthony from the west coast talks about it.

It's almost like getting on a bus years ago. When a white person walks on the bus, the black person has to leave or give up their seat. And that's what gentrification has been doing as a dynamic. And what we've got to do is do exactly what you guys did. That skit has to be shown again and again, because it is the database, but we should be looking at, not the statistics, but the fact that people are talking about what it means to them,

what it means when neighbors come in and don't really, are not neighborly. That skit was dynamite, and I think it really, I'm being very serious and we shouldn't be so serious, but it is a serious topic. We really have to begin to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to their thea thea thea, thea, their, their, the the the their, their, their, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. thiii, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, toooooooooooooanananananananananananananananananananxxeau.au.aq.aq.aqaqa, ta, thea, so serious, but it is a serious topic. We really have to begin to talk about housing and housing is a human right. How do we finance it? How do we make sure it's available so that my kids don't have to compete with your kids or displays you or your neighbor so that we can all live together somehow?

And I think that's the real struggle. And if you use a humor as a basis for making this issue and making it an issue that people understand, I think it's really important. And the deep dive into this, I think is really extremely helpful. And I really want to raise a glass and toast you guys for doing it. Thank you. Thank you so much for that. You hear that Trevor Noah, he just th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, th, th, th th th a glass and toast you guys for doing it. Thank you. Thank you so much for that. You hear that Trevor Noah?

He just said, give us a raise. Yeah, give them a raise. Are there ways for those moving in to ingratiate themselves to the culture? There was a young man, I can't remember his name, Jordan, but there was a young white guy in his early 20s who lost a job after moving to New York and walking around the neighborhood and making fun of the bodegas, not realizing that he was in a food desert. He was making a video complaining that there were no grocery stores. And every time he googled a grocery store, Google sent him to a bodega. And he didn't even, he just, he just, he just, he just, he just, he just, he just, he just, he just, he just, he just, he just, he just, he just, he just, he just, he was just, he was just, he was just, he was just, he was just, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the, was, was just, to, thi, was just, was, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, to, store, Google sent him to a bodega. And he didn't even, he just was just completely unaware that where you've chosen to live for so long has marginalized the community.

Okay, so I just moved to New York and I'm trying to go grocery shopping, and so I type in like grocery stores on my Apple Maps and like every fucking, like, every fucking, like, thi like I'm walking too, like they're like this shit or like, like this, like bro that's not a grocery store. Like I'm trying to get like egg, yogurt, like cheese, like shit like that, right? Like where are the Kroger's and like the whole food's at? Is there a way to educate people

so that they don't come in and be disrespectful or is there presence in a way inherently net negative for the neighborhood? I'll say right now I don't think that guy should deserve to get fired right I think he deserve to get educated I think that he didn't know I think a lot of people from you know the midwest the south everybody comes to New York and it's like which is where he was from you know you know and they're like wait the where's my we don't that the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their.. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. they. they. they. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I th. I th. I th. I. I. I th. I. I. I. I. I. I's. I's is. I's is. I's is. I's. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. th. I'm. I'm. I'm. my public's? Where's my? We don't got that. We got Carlos Vodega, you know? And another thing we kind of touch on the piece, and I kind of feel like it matters in this point is sometimes, not necessarily a race thing either, right? I think sometimes it could be a class thing.

I think it could be sometimes maybe who has more money because you know maybe I'm a gentrifier right maybe I'd probably gentrify somebody and maybe I'm complaining about the lack of almond milk right there was one guy in the piece he was a Jewish guy in our piece I don't if you remember him and he lived in Crown Heights and he got pushed out so sometimes it's not necessarily like the the little white girl the little white guy who come to New York with these you know big dreams sometimes it's these finance bronesones. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I's thi. I's not thi. I's not thi. I's not th. I'm not th. I'm not th. I'm not th. I'm not thi. I'm not th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm thi. I I'm I'm th. I I I I I I I I'm I I I I I I I I I I I I I'm th. I I I I I I I I I's th. I I I's th. I's th. I's th. I's th. I's th. I'm th. I'm thi. I'm thi. I'm thi. I'm thi. I'm thi. I'm thi. I'm thi. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm thi thi. I'm the the the the the little white guy who come to New York with these big dreams, sometimes it's these finance bros that are gentrifying. Sometimes it's just people with more money.

And I think housing as a right is the bigger conversation. Everybody should have fair access to housing. You know, the black home ownership rate right now is less than what it was like 10 years ago. It's getting worse for black homeowners. And we have to act our to myself. Why is that? We don't necessarily have the access. We don't necessarily have the tools. I mean, I don't want to go down the whole rabbit hole, but you go from 40 acres of the meal and it's just like, oh that was so long ago. Real estate is the greatest transfer of wealth there is to every generation, right? If you have to the the to to to the to the to their to to to their their their to to their to their to theheaugheckhapeckh. their to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the their. to go to go toeck. toeck. toeck. I'm toeck. I'm toeck. I weck. I weck. I weck. I toeck. I I I toeck. I I I toe. I I toe. I I I toe. I toe. I toeckhen. I toeckhen. I toeck. I to go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go. I toeck. I'm toeck. I'm toeck. toeck. toeck. toeck. toeck. toeck. I'm weck. I'm weck. I'm weck. I'm w I mean? And there's no, it is what it is. If you have some land, you could leverage that, you

could borrow against it, you could, housing you need, housing and transportation you need. So when you look at just people like that guy on that Tick Tock video, who's just like, why has the noble odegas? And it's sad that black people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi, thi, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi. thi. thee, thi. the. thi. thi. as? And it's sad that black people, people of color, have been living in these neighborhoods, like where there isn't like a regular grocery store. Why is that my grocery store only has like chips and snacks and stuff like that? I'm not trying to get the bodega bros, but we should have that equal opportunity to, and what Ron touched on, like, sometimes there is a fear, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, th... thr. thr, thro.. that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, th.. that, that, thro. thro., back then when even my black friends didn't want to go there because it was hood.

They're like, where are you going? And I remember seeing it and I remember being scared like, well, shoot, there's a new Tesla being built, the IKEA coming down. Are they going to raise my rent? And that fear is something that you can't describe. Because it's just like, well, I'm working. I graduated college. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the th. the th. the the the th. the th. th. th. th. the th. th. th. their. the thrown. th. th. th. th. their. their, their, their, th. I th. th. I th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the their. I the their. I their. I'm their. I'm their. I'm their. I'm their. I'm their. I'm their. I'm their their their their. I'm their thr. I'm thr. I'm thr. I'm thr. I'm thr. I'm thr. I'm thr. I'm thr. I'm thee. I'm thr. I'm the. I'm working, I graduated college, how do I keep up, right? And you see the influx of people, what do you do in that case as a black person, as a black woman? There's not enough programs, you know? And it's bad enough that maybe our parents didn't have the home or maybe our parents sold the home, right, not knowing, not realizing that maybe I should hold on to it. So it's just it's just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just th. It's just th. It's just th. It's just th. It's just th. It's just th. It's just th. It's just th. It's just thi. It's just thi. that's just that it's just that's just that that, that, that, that, that that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that that, that that that that that that that thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. thi. thi. thi. thi the thii thi thi the thi thi that's thi thi thi thi. thi. that's all around. You know, the whole issue of housing as a means for building wealth obviously occurs.

And it's a major benefit for many. But for others, you know, a lot of people bought homes and invested their life savings. And if they lived in some parts of Detroit or they lived in some parts of Cleveland or even parts of New York City. They lost that wealth. They lost that housing. They lost the housing because they couldn't afford to improve it. They didn't have access to loans. When I started working again in Bedstye in the 60s, we held hearings on insurance redlining because somebody because of the color their skin could not get the kind of insurance they needed for their skin, could not get the kind of insurance they needed for the building.

They couldn't get the home improvement loans. And so how do we really deal with the systemic racism that permeates a lot of what we're talking about? At the same time, we also have to think about how we create housing as a right that doesn't diminish over time other people of low-income getting it. It's not that if we, if everybody makes so much housing money on housing, it means the next generation's not going to be able to afford it.

So housing as a financial vehicle as a commodity is really something I think we have to address. And we have to find other ways of really building wealth in communities as well as, as well as, as, as as, as well as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, housing, as, housing, housing, as, as, housing, housing, as, as, housing, as, as, the housing, the housing, the housing, the housing, to housing, to housing, the housing, the housing, to housing, to housing, to housing, to housing, to housing, to the housing, if housing, if housing, if housing, if housing, if, if, if, if, if, the housing, the housing, the housing, the housing, the housing, as, the housing, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, the housing, as, as, as, the housing, as, the housing, as, the housing, the housing, the housing, the housing, the housing, the housing, the housing, the housing, to housing, the housing, to housing, to housing, to housing, to housing, to the housing, if housing, if housing, if housing, as a housing, as, as, as a housing, as a commodity is really something I think we have to address. And we have to find other ways of really building wealth in communities, as well as investing in housing and in real estate. Ron, what are some of those other negative and positive impacts, if any, that gentrification has on a particular community. We've talked about loss of culture, but what about also, you know, from an educational aspect, are there any ripple effects? Well, one of the benefits that occurs is when you have a mixed income community

and it doesn't have to be based only on race, as Jordan mentioned on economic diversity, is that the younger kids who are impoverished and grow up in mixed neighborhoods apparently are doing much better than kids who grow up and are isolated from the contacts, just pure contacts, are important to have within a society. And I'm a great believer in social and economic integration. It's in my roots, it's in my blood, and it's something I've always fought for and have really worked towards over my life. But the fact of the

matter is I think we need to begin to look at investing in communities so the people who are in those communities can grow. So they can grow culturally, they can grow economically and they can really benefit. What we now have is this idea that you improve communities by replacing them. So we now have to start thinking about providing the best education for kids wherever they are. We have to make sure that what we're doing is we're providing opportunities for people to access all of the mechanisms that they need in order to get housing, the technical expertise,

the initial financing, the ability to stay within their own homes if they have some economic difficulty. A home is more than just the four walls. It's the people who are in the neighborhood, the person you can call who can take care of your kids if you have an emergency, you have to go off somewhere. It's the churches, it's the networks, it's the friendships. And how do we really begin to value that? I think what we need to do is really develop a universal housing program, that everybody has the right to a house.

Everybody has a right to a house in a community that provides them with education and health. You know, what we do often as professionals is we go into a community and we ask them, what's more important, education or housing or health? Well, you know, if you're living in the community, you want all of those. And the community should work to doing all of those and weaving those together. So I would argue we need not only comedians, but we need weavers. People who will take these ideas and weave them together

to create more viable communities. And the first one is to stop the speculation. I think we really need to make sure that people can get the invest in housing, they can make, get their money back, so that savings can grow, but you can't get this enormous speculation where somebody buys the building,

two years later flips it for $2 million dollars more than they had before. And as a result, everybody loses. You lose the quality of the neighborhood and you're losing the networks that you had established before. So I would argue that we need anti-speculation taxes. I would argue that we'd take those taxes and direct them to low-income families. Okay, now I want to get into that after the break because I want to talk about who's to blame. Is it the people that are buying? It's the people that are selling? Is it the red

lining? Is it the government will be back with more? This is beyond the scenes. Beyond the scenes. We are back now. We have broken down what gentrification is and the ways that it negatively impacts communities on a socioeconomic level and education and opportunities and the stripping of culture and we forgot to talk about Jordan they paint over murals in some of these spots sure it is what's that a nice picture that a artist did to add some character to the neighborhood let me just put a nice picture that an artist did to add some character to the neighborhood? Let me just put a nice code for no reason. But Ron, I'd like to start with you, and let's talk a little bit about how crime and policing

changes. In the gentrification piece, when I had spoken with some of the wonderful, wonderful women that are Brooklyn nights. They talked about how, you know, people will just call 311 for random complaints. The snitches. I wanna go say it, but you said it, so let's get into it, Ron. Well, you said it, and I'm copying you because you're absolutely right.

And 311, you know, people move into a neighborhood, thii. And they should be moving to that neighborhood, because they they to to to to to to their their their their their their tha tha, tha, tha, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, all right? And they should move into that neighborhood because they want to be part of that community. They want to be able to walk down the streets. When I, again, I'm an old man, so I always referred to the past, right? When I moved first, you know,

do Bedford Stuyvesant, it had 400 or 500 block associations. There was even a group called the Association of Associations. It was a network of people. They were friends, they were neighbors. And if you want to move into a neighborhood, you move in there and become part and adopt its culture. And over time, cultures will change. They'll adapt. But it's the abrupt speed that people want to change places. It's the speculative nature. Why should people get a call a week from a real estate agent to sell their property? Why should they be harassed to sell their property?

Obviously, that's skit with you and Tommy Holly, you know, he talks about how much he paid and how much he'll get if he sells the house. It's a very attractive thing to sell, but what's he going to do when he sells? Is he going to move to Florida and face the racism and antagonism of that state? Or, is he going to lose all his friends on that block? Prices are this skyrocketing. Our houses are going for three million. Before... Wait, I'm sorry, what'd you say?

The house is in the best tiger for three million now. Three million dollars. How much you paid for this house? 23,7. $23,000. And you can sell it right now for close to 2 million. Oh, you got to go. Wait, you got to go. Wait a minute, you don't want to say that was his stay.

Why did that's before you told me what you was getting? You know, the money is great, but it's not everything. We've got to provide alternatives and we've got to make sure that we are, we slow down the speed of change and get to people to understand the neighborhood they move in. It's not just just just just just th th th th th to th th to to to th to the to to to to the to to to to the to to to the to the to have to have the to have to have the to have the to have the to have to thoom. to to to to to to to to to to thoes more that's that's that's thoes more thoes more that's thoes that's that's that's that's that's that's thus thus. thus. thus. thus. thus. thus. thus. thus. thus. thus. the the the the the the the the the. the to the to to to toe. toe. tooesuuu. tooes. tooooooooooooes. toe. toe. toe. toea that's that's thoeseses they move in. It's not just a place to buy a house. It's a place to live in. And you have to live and you have to work with your neighbors. And if people don't do that, if they don't understand that, then they really shouldn't be welcomed.

I think one of the issues, at least what I gather in Jordan, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the issues that I think Tommy Holly was dealing with was that he could stay there and preserve the culture or he could take the money and have an increased quality of living for the back half of his life and I think that's ultimately what I felt like he was kind of struggling with because you know your dollar is going to go a lot further in Florida. Now granted you're going to probably get called the N-word a couple times. There's an in-word tax you have to pay, depending on the county. But, you know, I think that that's what a lot of residents, you know, are dealing with. It's just what I found so interesting, though, Jordana, was despite

of people calling in noise complaints and increases, and increases, the the the thaphaphape, the stealing of Amazon packages, it seems that a lot of the black Brooklyn nights still have a resolve where even with the changes in their relationship with law enforcement as white residents become uncomfortable with black people who were indigenous to that block, somehow they're still okay with staying. Why do you think that is? I think it's just the principle, right? I was like, I'm not leaving. I'm not leaving, you know? And that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi thi thi thi th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. their the thi. thi. thi still okay with staying. Why do you think that is? I think it's just the principle, right? It's like I'm not leaving. I'm not leaving, you know? And that's how I felt too. Previously we talked about some of the signs of justification. For me, the sign is like, there's three. There's the white woman running with her dog late at night. If I see that happening, okay, something's going down. There's, if, that, that, that, that, that, that, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's how I's how I's how I's how I's how I's that's that's that's that's that's that's how, and that's how, and that's how, and that's how, and that's how, and that's how, and that's how, and that's how, and that's how, and that's how, and that's how, and that's how, and that's how, and that's how, and that's how, and that's how, and that's how I's how I's how I's how I's how I's how I'm the. thateathea, th. thathea. that's how I's how I's how I's how I's how I's how I's how I's how I's how I's how I's how I Jamaican restaurant for a free sample. I'm like, okay, what's going on? And then there's a white person that's just basically complaining about the Labor Day parade

or complaining about a block party, right? I think the issue that we have as Brooklyn is, I love Brooklyn so much. I love it. I talk, you ask any Brooklyn night where they're from. They don't say I'm a New Yorker, they say I'm from Brooklyn. That's how I introduce myself. So of course I want to share my burrow with anybody and everybody. The issue I have is that when you guys come here and you call the cops instead of introducing yourself

and you complain about a block party that has been happening, like the Labor Day parade for instance that's been going on for over 30 years. You complain about it. You complain about the jerk chicken being sold on the corner. And that's the issue we have. Of course, I would love people to talk and talk about Brooklyn, visit Brooklyn, and live in Brooklyn, but I think the sense of community is just gone. And I feel like, and tomomomomomomomomy the they. they, and I'm, and they, and thi, and they, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and the thi, and thi, and th, and I's, and thi, toe, and, to me, to me, to me, to me, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their, their, their, their, their, th, th, th, th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, their, thi, thi, toe, toe, toe, toe, toean, toean, toean, toean, toean, toean, toean, toean, toean, toean, toean, toean, toean, toe, he would stay if he didn't feel like an outsider. Do you understand how hard it was? I remember when he told that story,

you know, he was moved to tears, this white woman holding her purse, and this is an old man with his old magic stick, remember? And it's just like the, how degrading was that right? And this guy has been there for decades. And it's just like that feeling th, thi th neighborhood where you were born, where you grew up, it just, it sucks. So there's two people, there's some people that says, you know what, I'm going to leave because the area around me, the neighborhood is not the neighborhood no more. I can't afford the neighborhood. The neighborhood is not the neighborhood. the bodega, the bo laundry mat, the nail salon, everything has gone up. So let me just take my dollars to South Beach, wherever, right, like LeBron, and just move.

And then there's the people that are like myself that are just really trying to hold on. I think it's so important for for black people in Brooklyn, if you have the might, if you have the will, to stay into your homes because we're losing that. And I don't think, I think it's just really sad. When I talk about it, I get emotional. When I hear people selling their homes, I'm like, damn, come on man, what do we gotta do? You know, and it's really hard when you have fliring at your house, when, as Ron mentioned, you know, you could be house house, th. So now how do you maintain your house, right? How do you, you know, upkeep the furnace or the boiling and all that stuff?

So it's bigger than just having a house. Having a house is a lot of responsibility, but we need the access. And there's a lot of grant programs, and there's a lot of grant, that people like to throw so hard to get some of these programs and it's unfortunate that the easy way out is leaving. Who has the wills to really just fight all the time? It's really hard but I implore people to

to try to stay in Brooklyn and try to meet your neighbors. I think why it's Spanish or whatever? Because even I had to have a moment of reflection where like, crap, am I a gentrifier? Because I moved into a predominantly Spanish neighborhood and they play bad bunny all times a night. But I'm like, okay, well, I can't call the cops on these people. I don't want to be the person that Tommy and Judy were talking about. So it's like meeting my neighbors, right? meeting people, going to the community garden, and introducing myself, say, hey, you know what, I'm really good at garden and how can I help out?

And I think if people who moved into Brooklyn to that approach, versus just moving here, going to their fancy coffee shops and just treating us, like outside, we have no problem. I promise you, every Brooklyn night, I don't know what Brooklyn night that's like... Oh, I know. You know, we would love to share it. I just think it's the way. I think Tommy touched on it or Judith did about like, you know, integration, right? People from Brooklyn, tell you they're from Brooklyn when you didn't eat mass but

but they was from, that's for sure. Brooklyn. If you say so, I grew up in the Bronx and it took a, it was a psychic change to move to Brooklyn. You know, because Bronxites would never move to Brooklyn in those days. We moved there because we were able to get a house at a very low price, and that was in the 60s. So we've been living there for a long time. And it was when people were leaving the city.. And the city. And the city. And the city. And the city. And the city. And the city. And the city. And the city. And the city. And the city. And the city. And the city. And it was, and it was the city. And it was the the the the the th. And it was thi. And it th. And it was thi. And it th. And it th. And it th. And it th. And it th. And it th. And it th. And it th. And it th. And it th. And it th. And it th. And it th. And it th. And it th. And it th. And it th. And it the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. And th. the. the. the. thea. thean. thean. that's thean. that's thean. thean. thi. thi. thi. the.. So we've been living there for a long time. And it was when people were leaving the city. The city was losing population. In the 70s, you know, New York City was losing maybe 30,000 apartments a year.

It was shrinking. And what saved the city were the community-based organizations and the groups like Bedstar Restoration, the groups in Fort Green, the groups in Red Hook and all other places that stabilize the neighborhoods, that fought for federal government to stop what were basically discriminatory lending policies, changing the FHA to begin to lend money, to stop what was really what were fast foreclosure schemes. You would go into a neighborhood, East New York for instance.

You'd go into that neighborhood, predominantly working class white. Some people were beginning to integrate it, then all of a sudden, people's racist fears came up. They would hire people to integrate it, then all of a sudden people's racist fears came up. They would hire people to have stage fights in the street. They would then panic. They buy the buildings low. They would then get the federal government to insure them. They'd sell to a black or Latino family.

The next thing they did six months later, they would foreclose on that and shurn the building over and a couple of years later the neighborhood was abandoned. They pitted white racist fears against whites and blacks. And it really was, and we had to take them to court. We could document that there were places that were basically using government programs and manipulating them for fast, for these fast-foclosure schemes. To that point, Ron, then this sounds like gentrification to a degree is something of a bunch of different entities all working in concert. So if that is true, who is the real villain of gentrification?

Like, what is the root of the problem contributing to it? Because we talk about the commodification the government government the cification the cification the cthe the c. the the the the government the the the government the the the the government the the the government the the the government the the the the government the thi-ui-ui-ui-ui-ui-u th. thi-ui-u th. Weau th. Weau th. Wea-u th. Wea-u th. Wea-nipip-nip-nip-nip-nip-nipipip-nip-nipip. And th. We th. We th. We th. We th. We th. We th. We're th. We're, th. We're, th. We're, th. We're, th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I's, th. I'm, thi-a-a-a-a-s. I'm thooooome. thoooome. thoooome. th. thoing. thininii. thea-a-a- Like, what is the root of the problem contributing to it? Because we talk about the commodification of housing. You have real estate developers that are predatory. Airbnb is a big issue as well. You got everybody wanting to flip a house because they don't watch two shows in a row on on HG TV or whatever. So, you know, is it the government? Is it the developers or is it the home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home? the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. I. the. the, the, the, the. I. the. the, to. to. to. to. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. the. I. I. the. I. I. I. I. I. I. the. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. the. the. the. I. I. the. to. the. to. I. to. to. too. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. the. is it the government, is it the developers, or is it the homeowners? You know, because, you know, Bloomberg and, you know, like, there's, there have been

policies and redlining that also have helped as well to contribute to this issue. So, is there any one specific smoking gun? There isn't one specific smoking gun, but there is a whole network of systemic racist policies that have come to play a ongoing role, whether, you, you, th.. th. th. th. th. th. th. Because, th. Because, th. Because, thi, thi, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, their, thi, thi, because, because, because, because, because, because their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the, the, the, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, thi, and, the, and, and, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the the the the the the the they, they. Because, they, theybibibuu. Because, theybue, theybue, theybue, theybue, theybue, theybue, theyb-a, theyb. Because, theybue, theybue, network of systemic, racist policies that have come to play an ongoing role, whether or not people are doing it willingly or unwillingly, the system still persist. You still have real estate agents that are involved in racial steering. You'll be sent to one neighborhood, I'll be sent to another neighborhood. We've got to begin to monitor those quickly. A lot of this is because government turns a blind eye to it.

We need a city planning commission. We need a development entity in New York City that is aggressively fostering the healthy development of all our communities, looking for a diverse goal of building a diverse multicultural city. And we haven't been doing that of late. What we're doing in some cases is we're going into an area like East New York, all right, and we're building new housing. We're displacing 20 families. We're building 100 units of housing, 25% which will be low income, so that it will in many ways accommodate the ones we displaced. But 75% of the building is going to be super wealthy.

Because in order to provide low-income housing, we're going to need the wealth and the income flow from the upper-income families. That kind of inclusionary housing works if you want to build a racially economically integrated community. It doesn't work when you want to build more housing. And what we need to do is say we're no longer going to allow it only to be the private sector, but government has to be committed to a housing policy to meet the neu.. to meet to meet to meet to meet to meet to meet to meet to meet to meet to meet to meet to meet to meet to meet to to the the housing policy policy policy policy policy policy policy policy policy policy policy. to meet to meet to meet to meet to to to to to to to to to the the the to to to to to the the the the the the the the upper families families families families families families families families families families families families. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thii.cui.cui.cumoooooomcumooea. thoooooooo-cumo-cumo-cumo-cumo-cumeumeumefa. thi. longer going to allow it only to be the private sector, but government has to be committed to a housing policy to meet the needs of every quartile of our population. And we have to start really promoting what really are our healthy communities. Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna just say it right now. I think real estate is just racist, right? Currently in 20's me too, if I was to get my house appraised.. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the housing, the housing, to to the housing, the housing, the housing, to to to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to to be to to to to to to to to to to to to the housing, the housing, the housing, the housing, the housing, the housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, the house house, the house house a housing, housing, the housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, housing, the housing, housing, housing, housing, to to to to to the housing, housing, housing just say it right now. I think real estate is just racist, right?

Currently, in 202, if I was to get my house appraised and a white person was sitting in this house and get it appraised, they're going to get a better appraisal value. That happened during COVID. There was a black family that happened to in Seattle. It happens all over the country. So now, not only, let's say you can't buy a house, but then you do the right thing, save your little money, you get your little FHA loan, you do all the right things, but now when it's time to that for appraisal, automatically I'm getting less. So we just have to really take a deeper look at real estate and figure out how can we change it, right? throwne. to the throwne, throwne, throwne, throwne, throwne, throwne, throwne, throwne, throwne, throwne, throwne, throwne, throwne, throwne, throwne, thr, tho, the their, thr, tho, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their their their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, throwne, throwne, toge, toge, tomoo, toge, thea, thea, thea, thea, thooo, thooo, their involved? How do we speak out? And I really think it's important as a homeowner, as a black woman, not only just sitting back and just saying it is what it is, no, we need to hold our local officials accountable.

So maybe that means going to let every, and now it's on Zoom, Royce, so you could go and speak up on the meeting and knowing your council member's name and say, okay, well, what are we doing about the trash on this street? What are we doing about the abandoned building on this street? And really rolling up your sleeves and getting your hands dirty. And when you talk about East New York, I remember when I was looking into the home buying process, I said, you know what, I want to move where there might be a little bit of action. So that means, the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their...................... their, their............ their.... they.. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. the tape. tre. tre. tre. tre. tre. tre. tre. tre. tre. to. to. to. to. to. the they. they. they. they. the to move where there might be a little bit of action. So that means looking up where are they pulling permits? Where are some of these developers going? If you don't want to be a problem, you don't want to be a part of the problem, right?

So I know I didn't want to be that person that's going to buy a piece of land and make it a luxury building. No, I want to be part of that change. And I think sometimes a lot of like, we just automatically assume, let's go to South Carolina, let's go to, you know, ATL. I love Waconda, I love ATL. Don't be wrong, but there's great stuff for black people in Brooklyn. And I just think that we have we wea we wea we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have th th th th that that that that that that is that that is that is that is automatic that is automatic that is automatic that is automatic that, like that, like that, like that is automatic, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, th. th. th. th. th. th. that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, like, like, like, like Whereas others are trying to, they see the value in Brooklyn. And it's just really hard and racism is threaded throughout

the whole real estate process. The other thing that I want to put on the table is I think we really need to start talking about housing that is rental housing. Not everybody wants to be a homeowner. Not everybody has the ability to be a homeowner. Not everybody has the ability to be a homeowner. And so we need to think about how we increase a supply of rental housing in the city of New York in such a way that it's woven into the fabric of communities,

that it's right next to middle income, right next to home ownership areas. We have to think about social housing, public housing, housing that's owned by the, and meets the needs of some of of of of of the of of the the of of the the of of of of the very of the very very very very of the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the., the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thea., tea., tea., tea., teana.eananananan, tean, tea., tea., their, their, their, their, public housing, housing that's owned by the and meets the needs of some of the very poor. You go into Red Hook with Red Hook houses. Some of that was built originally in 47, occupied primarily by white families. It was a step up. New York City still has thousands upon thousands of people on the waiting list to get into public housing. We need to expand the supply of affordable rental housing in the city of New York. How can residents stop the harassment that they get at the hands of their landlords as well?

Like we're talking about big government systems and whatever, but sometimes you've just got an asshole who's running your building and who's trying to run you off as well. So talk a little bit about that, both of you, if you can. Well, one of the things that occurred, you know, during previous to COVID was putting pressure on the DiBlazio administration to stop the harassment that was going on in Crown Heights and the harassment that was going on in East New York and in many other places in the city. And so setting up these anti-harassment units where people really know they could go into South Brooklyn legal services or they could go into Williamsburg legal services

and get support by some of the legal lawyers there to go after the landlord. It really is important because that was happening. They would that that that that, and th. And th. And th. And that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that the the the that the the that the that tho the tho the tho the the the tho tho th the th the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi the the thi thi thi. thi. thi. thi. thatee. thateateauuuuu. theauu. thoooooooooooooooooooo. And many other their their their their their their the of the legal lawyers there to go after the landlords. It really is important because that was happening. They would come in, they buy a building, right? They vacate one or two apartments and they start making noise and they would do all sorts of things to drive the tenants out. And part of it is you have to knock on the people. You have to start organizing people, help them understand what their rights are, and provide the legal and the technical and the organizational capacity to follow through.

A housing program involves organizing, it involves financing, it involves financing, it involves regulation, and the role of government has to be one that is not passive. And people have to not be passive. We have to really stand up for our neighbors and begin to organize on a community by community basis. It's all about the neighbors. I think that happened in my old building in Red Hook, just basically talking to each apartment like on the elevator like hey Have you been getting these letters? What's going on? You know and just organizing? So I think

You know the power of like five is better than power one right I could write one the email all day, but now if we have five different emails coming in they have to pay attention. So I definitely think organizing, like? like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to to to to to to to to to the to their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their they.e.e. I they.e.ea.ea.ea. they. they. they. their they. their their with like the anti-harassment law firms and just try to say, hey listen, something weird is going on here. I don't know who to go to. Can you help me? You know, and it's unfair because you look at the rental prices, the average amount of rent right now in New York is like $3,000 depending where you're at, you know, you look at certain places. And it's unfortunate because people are lining up. I remember one comedian said, oh, New York is dead, right? And now New York came back tenfold, right? Now what? Now there's no houses to be bought. There's no apartments for rent. And you're just stuck in this vicious cycle. And I think it's bigger than just you know it's obviously politics, obviously government but we have

to take action too. And we have to do it now by the way because if one of the things we have been looking at is what will the impact of climate change on New York City be? You lived in Red Hook and so you know what happened you know just 10 years ago this fall, right? When all of a sudden the waters came in and what saved a lot of the neighborhood With the green space around the public housing was an absorbed water, and he never got credit for that Meanwhile, the folks in public housing didn't have electricity for months What's going to happen to that huge supply

of public housing, which is in harm's way, within 15 to 20 years, we're going to lose those units and you're all going to have to relocate those families? We can't accommodate them today. What are we going to do a few years from now? How do we really begin to engage government today? And that's why the timing of your episode was really crucial. How do we, how do we engage government so that we really are developing and using the new infrastructure money and the new climate change money to make sure we're not displacing people, but we're in placing them, that we're beginning to build communities

that will live beyond the first mortgage cycle. No, absolutely. Well, coming up after the break, we're going to talk solutions. We've talked about what gentrification is. We're trying to figure out who's to blame, but now let's figure out how to fix it. First off, we need more people playing music out there. Are you doing that yet, Jordan?

In your new spot in Brooklyn? I am. I am. Point that speaker out at the street. Okay? You gotta be done. That's one to be the more technical ones after the break. This is beyond the scenes.

Let's talk solutions here for a second, Ron. Andra, Donna, until we get the policies in place, until we get, you know, everything that you all are talking about in terms of establishing, you know, proper rental properties and proper policies and to stop predatory, real estate, you know, corporations and conglomerates from coming in, how can the people who currently, currently, the people who are currently part of these Brooklyn neighborhoods, and not just Brooklyn, matter of fact, let's open it to the whole country. Gentrification just ain't a Brooklyn thing. How can people in these neighborhoods help to honor the rich cultural history in the places that

they're now, you know, have chosen to be a part of? I think the first cultural history in the places that they're now, you know, chosen to be a part of. I think the first thing is to celebrate the places that we all live in. I think what has been going on annually now for a great number of years in Bedstye, where there's an event on Fulton Street near Restoration Plaza, I think is a really important event. There have been similar efforts over the last few years in Red Hook to really bring people together, show them the waterfront, make sure that the groups working on this show and actually parade the diversity and the multiculturalism that exists. I think that really is a major selling point.

Let's attract people based on the quality of a neighborhood, not based on really just baking money. That shouldn't be what we talk about when we're dealing with housing. I think we really have to start looking at how we take back our neighborhoods and promote them. When you talk about celebration, I think that's the most important thing, as I mentioned before, you know, going to the block parties, bragging about about their their their their their their their their their their, their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and, and, and, and, and, and their, and, and, their, and, their, and, and, and, their, and, and, and, and, and, and, their, and, and, and, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, and, their, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, their, and, and, their, and, and, their, and, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, te.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e. te. te. their, their, their celebration, I think that's the most important thing, as I mentioned before, you know, going to the block parties, bragging about being from Brooklyn, knowing your neighbors, and making sure that, you know, you're active in your community. I know sometimes people think,

oh, that's corny, oh, I don't got time for it. You have to make time, because sooner or later, you're going to look up and be like, what neighborhood the neighborhood the neighborhood the neighborhood to to to to the neighborhood, to to the neighborhood, to, and be the neighborhood, to, and be the neighborhood, and be to, and be the neighborhood, the neighborhood, and be like, to, the neighborhood, and be like, to, to, to, to, to be their the neighborhood, the neighborhood, their, to be on your local officials neck, you have to figure out what permits are being filed, you have to take action in your neighborhood, even if you're not a homeowner, right? Just like rental, you know, renters are equally as important, right? Because you have to say, okay, well listen, I'm paying, you know, let's say for instance a two-family mortgage. So my rights matter too. And I think it's about being active,

not being complacent, and really saying, hey, listen, I love it here, how can I make it better, right? I think as black people especially, we have to be the ones to gentrify our own blocks. I think that we cannot sit back and get mad when other people people start thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes tho tho that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that, I'm that, I'm that, I'm to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to that, I'm that, I'm that, I'm that, I'm that, I'm that, I'm that, I'm that, I'm that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... that, th start seeing the value in our neighborhoods. You can't cry over spilled milk, right? Because like even to the point of like if you can find the local businesses and support the local businesses, what's wild is that you know the bodega guy that we were talking about at the top of the show, he could have

made that into a win for himself by just going there's's no grocery store, so I love going to bodegas. And I'm gonna go to all the bodegas around me and buy a little bit from all the bodegas. And it would have been one big, hey, support local business, Kumbaya. But instead you got fired. Years ago, there was a group in Fort Greene that worked on Myrtle Avenue and Fulton Street and called it Bogolan. It was based on African fabric and the various different colors that went into that fabric.

We have to find those keys again, you know, the Brooklyn Movement Center has been doing a lot of work, organizing residents. We have to begin to, again, build those foot soldiers within the neighborhoods that really talk about the culture and tell the stories about the history. Think about places in like Weeksville, historic society, and what it's doing and what it really means to have these roots in a community. It's something that we really have to embrace and not run away from.

And just taking the power of your dollar, right? You know, the black spending dollar, right? We have to invest into our local businesses also. Like I make an effort to go to my local hardware store when I know I could easily get it shipped or go to home depot correctly, you know, you have to also start circulating that dollar in that community. So businesses kind of want to stay, you know, or those mom and pop operations want to be there and versus selling their bodega versus selling their laundromat, they know they have

a loyal customer base, versus kind of taking the easy way out and getting your groceries or whatever. Try and save your spending dollar and put it back in the community because it all Everything affects everything right and people are people at the basics We are all human. We want fair housing. We want fair food. We want fair access to Housing is a right and if we start treating our dollar as it's powerful and start making sure like we are active in our community Nobody nobody can stop us. I don't care what you say Ron you have seen innumerable iterations and evolutions of various boroughs in New York. What does the future look like?

Let's end on that. You know, what does the future look like? Because, you know, we have people like Jordana and her husband who are going to be there, they ain't leaving? Jordan've been Jordan might mess around run for city councilor what's it called over there alderman I don't know I don't know what they call it what do you think these neighborhoods are gonna be like in the next 10 to 20 years right well I think we have to change the path we're on and I think we have to change that path right th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their. their. to to their. I to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their we're to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their to their to to their their too. te. te. te. theuu. theu-Iu-Iu-Imea. toeau. toldeau. to path right away. What I'd like to see us is to begin to take some of the money that we have and have access to and begin to reinvest it in our

neighborhoods by building up those neighborhoods and investing in them dramatically. We in New York State have something called the stock transfer tax. That tax is on the books. It's collected every day, but it's rebated. That's a taxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx that's a that if you you you's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's that's that's that's that if you, that if you, that's that's that if you're that if you, that if you, that if you, that if you, that if you have that if you have that if you have that if you have that if you have that if you have that if you have that if you have that if you, that if you, that if you, that if you, that if you, that if you, that if you, that's that's that's $ $ $ $ $ycoughc, that's $yc, that's $. thiauiaqqqqqqqqqqqqqqaqa'a'a'a'a'a'a'eat. thia'ea'ea'eck. thia'e. thia'e. that's $1. that's $1c. is on the books. It's collected every day, but it's rebated. That's a tax that if you invest $100,000, the tax is $30. That's how the minimis it is. That would generate 12 to $15 billion a year for New York State that we should invest in infrastructure. We should invest it in transportation and in low and moderate income housing so that we can really begin to renovate our neighborhoods and generate the kind of quality neighborhoods that meet the needs of every income group.

We have to start telling the stories, the stories of how neighbors function and work together, so that they are the things that attract people to our neighborhoods rather than just thinking that we're going to make money on housing. I think we have to critically address the issue of climate change because it is going to dramatically affect every one of us. The number of people that were taken ill because of the recent heat wave in New York, we can't measure.

We don't really know, but I'm willing to bet it was significant. It's going to get worse. The number of days of over 100 degrees is going to increase dramatically over the next 10 to 15 years. That's a challenge that we have to convert into an opportunity, an opportunity to build stable, viable, livable, multiracial communities within the city of New York, ones that allow people to build their own, build on their own culture and really celebrate the diversity of this city.

And that, to my mind, is what we should be working towards. And using the challenges, the money that may be coming from the diversity of this city. And that to my mind is what we should be working towards. And using the challenges, the money that may be coming from the federal government, the money that we could generate in New York State and use as a model for the nation, the way we did in the 30s, and really begin to think about how we build a post-racial society, how we can really build a multicultural democracy. I think that really is something we have to work on and work towards and invest in. It's not going to happen unless we change those policies. To your point about climate change, I mean there was a couple of floods that

happened last year and people were dying in basement apartments, right? flooding, heat, it's getting really bad. I floods that happened last year and people were dying in basement apartments, right? Flooding, heat, it's getting really bad. I think that housing across New York is just such at a turning point right now. So we definitely have to take action. We definitely have to make sure that we talk to each other and mobilize and say, hey, what can we do to make our living conditions better? Because as Ron toucest on, as you touched on, it's a right.

I think housing is a right that some people find it so unattainable, but it's yours. And I think the other thing too, it's just like, stop changing the names of the neighborhoods. That's one thing that really ticks me off. Like, when you guys come here, I don't don, I don't want don, I don't don, I don't tho, I don't tho, I don't tho, I don't tho, I don't tho, I don't thin, I don't thin, I don't thin, I don't thin' thin' thin' thin' thi, I thin' that's thi, I'm that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's ast I said, hi, it's like, from the inception of the time you guys come, it's like, oh, I don't want to call it, Beth Stein no more. Well, no, it's Betheside. Respect the neighborhood and stop with all the acronyms.

Well, I think that's as good a place to end. And she is a wonderful, a wonderful, a wonderful, a wonderful, a wonderful, a wonderful, a wonderful, a wonderful, a wonderful, a wonderful, a wonderful, a wonderful, a wonderful, a wonderful, a wonderful, a wonderful, a wonderful, proud Brooklyn night. Jordan, thank you for going beyond the scenes. And Ron, thank you for everything that you have contributed to preserving culture and building culture and making sure that people respect culture. Thank you all both for going beyond the scenes with us. Well, thank you for what you're doing.

I just try to crack the jokes. You guys do the real work. Listen to the Daily Show Beyond the Scenes on Apple Podcasts, the I-Heart Radio App or wherever you get your podcast. Watch the Daily Show, weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central, and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount Plus. This has been a Comedy Central podcast.