The Daily Show: Ears Edition - The Forgotten Black and Queer History of House Music - Beyond the Scenes

Episode Date: October 3, 2022

Beyoncé and Drake released house music albums this year, leaving fans confused by their shift from pop-soul sounds to dance beats. Despite popular belief, house music comes from the the 70s disco era and fostered a safe space for Black and queer folk to feel true liberation. Daily Show producer, Chelsea Williamson, house music great, DJ Derrick Carter, and music scholar and writer, Craig Seymour, join host Roy Wood Jr. to discuss the forgotten origins of house music.  Beyond The Scenes is a podcast from The Daily Show with Trevor Noah. Check out more episodes wherever you get your podcasts or YouTube.com/TheDailyShowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. What up? It's Roywood Jr. Next you're about to hear a special presentation of the Daily Show podcast that I host called Beyond the Scenes. Now, all it is, it's very simple. If it's a topic that's already been on the Daily Show, we talk about it again, and we go even deeper on the topic and you know see where we are now on

the issue, get deeper into the origins of the problem and we do that with Daily Show producers, writers, correspondence and expert guests who know a hell of a lot more about it than us to help us break it down. Have a listen. Welcome to Beyond the Scenes. The Daily Show podcast that goes a little deeper into segments and the topics that aired originally on the show. We th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. tho, tho, th. tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, th. th. th. tho, tho, tho, tho, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. And, thi. And, theeea. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. little deeper into segments and topics that aired originally on the show. We're kind of like the amenities you get when you stay at an all-inclusive resort. You know, you get the hotel room of course, but this podcast is the room service, the buffet, the fancy bathrope, man them bathrope so comfortable, I installed six and let me stop snitching on myself. Today, we're discussing a topic from CP Time

that I did on the origins of house music. The piece highlights the notable black DJs and singers that created the original sound of the genre. House music is all the rage these days. From Drake and Bionte to Swedish House Mafia, to Mickey Mouse's coqued cousin, who lives in the bad part of Epcot. But would you believe that this genre has its origins in the black community? Of course you should.

It's CP time. You've never heard me say, surprise, it's Caucasians. So yes, these modern artists stand on the shoulders of House Music's black and gay founders. So let's talk about some of them, like Francis Nichols, aka Frankie Knuckles. Frankie started as a DJ in New York at a time of ferocious backlash against disco music. It was so bad that in 1979 a crowd gathered at Chicago's Kamisky Park to burn the records of artists in what was known as Disco Demolition Night.

Even watching the footage today, it's still a shocking sight. A full baseball stadium. Disco was dead, but people still wanted to get down in the club. And so Frankie Knuckle started experimenting with the new style of dance music at his home club in Chicago, the warehouse. That's where House music gets its name, not as some people think from Dr. House. Although Dr. House does love popping pills. Today I'm joined by Daily Show producer Chelsea Williamson. Chelsea, how are you doing? I'm good. How are you, Roy? I'm good. I'm making it.

I promise you that this is the voice you have after listening to house music and screaming in the club till four o'clock in the morning. Which is not what I was doing. I th I th I th I th I th I th. I th. I th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. Do th. Do th. Do th. Do th. Do th. Do th. Do th. Do th. Do th. th. th. tho tho. Do tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. tho. tho. the. the. the. the. the. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. house music and screaming in the club till four o'clock in the morning, which is not what I was doing, maybe. You know, that's, we'll talk about that offline. We're also joined by American DJ producer and house music great. Derek Carter and music scholar and writer Craig Seymour. Derek how you feeling the day? We'll start with you. I'm all right. I have my voice and we're doing okay here. Must be nice. Craig, Craig, how you doing? I'm doing wonderful and I definitely have been there with that voice you know after that night at the club isn't quite what it is and I'm delighted to be here because whenever I get the chance to talk about house music and give it up to the people people the people the people the people the people the people the people to to to to to the the to the to the to the to the the to to the the the to th. to th. th. to to to to to to to to to to th. th. the thi. to to to to to to to to to the the, the the, th. th. their. their, their, their, their, their, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the thi. the thi. thi. the the. the. the. the. the. the. the. to. to. to. to. to. to to to to the the the. the. the. the the. th get the chance to talk about house music and give it up to the people who

provided the foundation for music that has been so important to my life, it's a beautiful day. My first introduction to house music was at Florida A&M University. I had a roommate from Milwaukee. We walked down to, this is how old I am, excuse the old people, Chelsea. I walked down to Eckerd's Pharmacy and at Eckert's I bought a two-deck cassette player and that was going to be our music for our dorm room and I popped in Master P. Ghetto D. And then the deal was you get the radio for an hour and then the other person gets the radio for an hour. He popped in the percolator, and I had never heard of this. He starts gyrating around the room.

I think he's having a seizure. It probably took 10 minutes for me to realize, oh wow, this is amazing. I want more. What else do you have? And this brother had a box of nothing but house music and do or die. That was all he had. Midwest Staples. Yeah, and so, you know, being a southerner, this was not something that it permeated its

way, at least not as a 16, 17-year-old, you know, in 96. So, you know, it was shocking for me to like discover this new thing and he's like, nah, this has always been the thing. So Chelsea, you do the research on these pieces. Let's start there. House music has always been associated with white people, but can you give us the basic overview of the black roots of the genre? Yeah, so I feel like you can't really get into house without first acknowledging that it came from disco. It was very influenced by disco, disco, disco, disco, diso, and July 1979, basically in Chicago,

this Chicago radio DJ named Steve Dahl held a disco demolition night. It was in the baseball stadium. There's supposed to be a game that night, and he blew up a bunch of disco records because he was like, I hate this genre. They had like moved his radio beat from rock to disco. It started a riot. The game never happened that evening, to say the least,

and there began this backlash against disco. I will also say that there was part of that that did feel very anti-black and homophobic, because a lot of these disco artists were black and many were gay or in the closet, or just were like involved in that scene, like I just think of Sylvester and others like him. After that, you kind of had this backlash of people not really wanted to listen to disco. But at the same time, these DJs were like,

well, people want to dance, but they don't want to listen to disco, so we've got to figure out something new. And that's where you have somebody like Frankie Nuckles, who kind of came up in New York, the DJing to the And Frankie eventually moved to Chicago, where he started DJing at this club called The Warehouse, which is WhereHouse actually gets his name.

While there, he kind of pioneered this, you know, version of Disco that was like more of a 4-4 beat, and just like put different bases and drums under it. And he created a very, like, helped to pioneer a whole new genre that eventually became house. It wasn't only him. Also, like I said, Larry Levan was in New York and he DJed at this very famous club

called Paradise Garage, which I don't think you can forget in the overall history because it was a legendary club. He was also pioneering his own thing. Then you had all the people the people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people the the the the the the the the the the pioneering his own thing. Then you had all the people after them, such as the people that we mentioned in the CP time, like Ron Hardy. You had Jesse Saunders, who had the first number one record in 1984, called On and on, and helped also make it global.

You know, you had a variety of people that also made this happen, but it was all the early 80s, and I do th th th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the, thi, th, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th, th, th, th... too, too, too, too, too, too, together, together, together, together, thr.e. too. the the, the, the, the, the the 80s and I do think it's very important to also acknowledge that, you know, especially the origins of it were very much black and very gay and you can't divorce those two things from it. So then Derek first to the black part of that. Now, we get to the gay part in a second. But to the black part of that. Now, you've been 10 toes down in this genre since seven, eight years old, messing up your mama's needles on her 45s and scratching up everything in the house, as we do as children when we learn our craft.

When you started, you know, first, walking through your introduction into the house music scene. And as you matriculated in it, did it feel like you were being snub? Like, as a consumer, I understand that we sometimes have a different perspective from the artist. So as a creator of this genre, as one of the pioneers of this genre, did you see this, did it feel like you all were not getting the credit? Give me the origin and then talk about it once you were inside the tornado of it all well I remember the first time I ever heard the term house music friend of mine had come over and just was talking about house music house and like what the

hell is house music I mean I was probably 12 13 at the time we said on my the front porch at my parents house and we'd the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. tho the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the te te. te. tea. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. the the the the the the the the the time. We sit on the front porch at my parents' house. And we'd all been DJs. That's the thing. Like I started, I DJed for the first time at nine. You know, we all had little crews. And the amazing thing is that in Chicago. What were your rates at nine years old? What was you going for?

What can I book you for? Give me a plate? Where I grew up is just like just outside of the city and a place called Broadview Maywood, Illinois. They were probably, man, easily like 10, 15 other like kid DJs in my neighborhood. Like we battle each other in the garage and just like make music and have fun and do that sort of thing. And one of my friends who was in this kind of,

I don't know, our association. Just like start talking about house music. I'm like, I don't understand what you're saying. Then he explained it to me and I was like, oh, you're just talking about music. Like, why are you calling the house music? Like, what is this? But the thing about it here locally was that they played,

it had mixes on the radio. So we had like disco DAI back in the Steve Dahl days. and then it went onto WBMX and WGCI and then on through like B96 and all that stuff. But basically we had on Friday nights from I guess like 9 till 4 a.m. Basically the time that the club if you couldn't make it to the club they were radio DJs that would a.m. Basically the time that the club would be open. If you couldn't make it to the club, there were radio DJs that would give you mixes. It became sort of the soundtrack, you know, and I was crafty and broke, so like I would manage to, like I wanted to record all these mixes and find all this music, so I figured out a way to hook up my parents' VCR to the radio and instead of a tape deck so I can get six hours on the tape so I could tape the whole mix show from start to end and just like have it on a VCR tape. The thing was that there was a lot of record stores like all over the place.

There's one locally, Reamer's records that sold a lot of stuff. There's one, we had, you know, Rose records in the city and a bunch of other things. I worked at a place called Imports, etc., which is the store that gave house music its actual name. Like it came from the club, the warehouse, but Paul Weisberg, who was the owner, had set up a little bin of music that Frankie played. Because that's kind of the thing at the time, you know, it's like DJ Picks or like music that you could hear in these various places. And this is also, I'm talking like 19, that would have been like 1984, maybe, 1983, somewhere in there. But I started working there at 87. I mean, I was 18, I had just, I was a fresh 18. And we just, th, th, th, th, we just, we just, we just, we just, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, started working there at 87 I mean I was 18 I had just I was a fresh 18 and we just used to run around and like man it was the heyday it was like

there's a party in every little neighborhood every weekend for you know like years you know there'd be the dance off battle and like a DJ battle or like a dancer battle or biggest booty battle, you know, those have never gone away. The spirit of house music, do you feel like it was properly honored by white people to have been this thing that originated within the black and gay communities? At that time, uh, yes. There were club issues and things like that with segregation Chicago was notoriously terrible about that sort of stuff and at that time particularly. But there were a lot of parties and a lot of events and like they would be, you know,

all kinds of people. I mean, yeah, most of the DJs or a lot of the DJs and the places where it found its start were primarily black and brown queer spaces, helmed by black and brown queer people. But they weren't exclusionary, you know, they weren't in any way running the same kind of game that the actual club owners in the city were running. We had to have four pieces of ID to get in. And who the hell has four pieces of ID in 1984?

There weren't even four pieces of ID to be had. You know, you write your name on a piece of paper if that counts, that's one, you know, bringing your electric bill. But at these events, they would be white people. There'd be like, you know, white passing Latinos, and, shoot, white passing black folks. There would be all kinds of people and just having a good time. And so, uh, I feel like House kind of fostered and, um, nurtured this kind of community, and for lack of a better term,

that anybody could come, you know, and like there's a famous song, you may be black, you may be white, you may be Jew or Gentile, you know, it don't make a difference. Working at the record store, I saw it all the time, you know, people coming in, like black people, brown people, white people, gay people, gay people, straight people. People just catching up to it more so because it was on the radio at the time. So it became something commercial that could be, I guess, exploited. Some of you could sell commercial times to make a little money off

of it. But I think that in the blackness of it, I mean it was black, it was real black. You know, you would get like just steppers coming in and full green outfits and, you know, brothers from the deep south side who just didn't leave the south side to go, to do anything but go get records, you know, for the party. It was a lot of characters, you know, you would run into some interesting people. To that point, Craig, speak a little bit to the LGBTQ community and how they fit into the history of house music, specifically queer, black and Latin X men.. Well first of all I just have to

give it up to the black ingenuity of hooking up a cassette player to a VCR. I ain't never heard nothing like that ever so yeah that just needs some moment. First of all just give it up to that. All right and then I also wanted to say a little bit about the the Steve Dob, the disco demolition riot. The reason why it can really, I feel very comfortable calling it racist, is because some of the people that were taking the records that people would get, were able to get in free for a reduced price to get, they were bringing in Stevie Wonder records. They were bringing in Aretha Franklin records. They were bringing in funk records. So the record, they

weren't making any distinction between black music in general and disco. They just wanted to burn these black records. So that's something that's very important that often gets lost in that that was definitely racist. I don't care what anybody drives to say, the point is, and what this one, I believe it was Vince Lawrence, excuse me if I'm wrong about that, but I believe he said, you know, he didn't see any Carpenter's records coming through, he didn't see any Doors Day records coming through, but he did see mainstream black R&B records coming through that were not disco. So to me, what's what's the, you know, connecting threat between all their artists, they're black, you know. So it really did have a racial implication.

So, you know, I think it's important to very much think of a black, queer, aesthetic, and queer community as very distinct from a white queer community. And I think it's very important to think of the practices of black queer communities as very different from the practices of white queer communities. So that's why when Mr. Carter said the thing about it was always a mix of people, a black queer aesthetic and community and the principles of the black queer community have always been about inclusion. And they've always reflected sort of the thinking of black feminist authors that I'm not free till everybody's free. You know what I mean? It's not a get-mind type of situation.

It's a someday we'll all be free situation, you know, and we're trying to free everybody's mind. So that's why the inclusion of all sorts of different people was so possible within these black queer safe spaces where they might not have been in white gay spaces, which again, like Mr. Carter said, when you show up to the door, you know, if you weren't white, you have to show, you know, multiple IDs, this and that, have to go through all sorts of changes. But I think that inclusive aspect was always a part of it.

For me, not growing up in Chicago, but being around the, I was born in 1968, so I saw it all from the point of view. I grew up in D.C. But I lived in New York for a long period of time, during this period. And New th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thiiii, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thin. And, thi. And, thin. And, thin. And, thi. And, thin. And, thi. And, thin. And, th New York for a long period of time during this period. And New York at this time in the early 80s was the capital of dance music. Like everything came out of New York or New Jersey filtered through New York through clubs like the Zanzibar and Tony Humphreys and then they get played by Larry Levan at the Paradise Gara and that type of thing. So that was the center. And I distinctly remember when House came on the scene because what was big back in those days is kind of like what we now call freestyle, but you can call electro and records like Shannon's Let the Music Play and things like that which are very kind of sort of jaunty records. And I remember when the first time like Jam Silk's Music Is the Key started playing, people were like, what is this? Because because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th, because, the, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, the, because, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the s-cane, thi, thi, thi. they. Because what they. Because what they. Because what they. Because what they, what was they, what was they, what they, what the the I remember when the first time like Jam, Silk's Music is the Key started playing, people were like, what is this? Because it's just, it was much more fluid than the sort of

electro rhythms before. And then once we start getting like Marshall Jefferson's house music anthem with the pianos and all of that kind of stuff, it was like somebody switched a light switch and like all of these kind of hard electro records that were once popular were just gone and now it was all about house music whether melodic house music or the sort of cut up tracks that people like Todd Terry and people were doing New York producers really picked up on the sort of cut-up sounds that Chicago producers were doing. Producers like Arthur Baker, who produced Looking for the Perfect Beat, one of the first

electro hip-hip records, he really started being a champion of house music and bringing that into the New York scene. And once it became big in New York, then the pop artist wanted to get in on that money. So that's when you started getting Frankie Knuckles remixing records for like Janet Jackson and Whitney Houston and people like that. And that's when it really exploded when the pop people started getting into it. But again, it was about how the New York producers were

kind of translating this raw sound that was coming from Chicago. So then would you all say that these house music venues became a bit of a cultural and behavioral safe haven for the gay community and I would guess to some degree the black community as well where you could come and just be yourself in this one bubble away from all of the other bullshit that's going on outside in the city. That was literally it for so many people, including myself that I knew, particularly because clubs were always, in many ways, meant to be an escape from the sort of of just things that you do every day. My job is terrible but the weekend. You know my girlfriend, my boyfriend's mad at me but the weekend. You know all the things that you go through during the

make your money part of the week are absolved and you are just the weekend. So having those places where you just could be free, well, you wanted to be free and then were able to be free. That is a great recipe for a good time and people were coming to have great time. You know, the interesting thing, both Mr. Carter and I've talked about how in certain cities, like the big cities, the New York's, the Phillies, the Baltimore's, the Chicago, House also had a life on radio, which really sort of spread the message. But in terms of black queer spaces, there were places all around the country,

even in the south, in Atlanta, and Houston, and all of these other places, where house music clubs were really all that the black gay and lesbian community had at that time, because they weren't hearing it on the radio. They weren't, couldn't even find it in the record stores, but they would go to these particular clubs in order to hear the music. And in many ways, they were much more isolated than people were in bigger cities like Chicago and D.C. and stuff where there was a larger Black Gay community, and then there were

also the clubs. In the south, there was a larger black gay community and then there were also the clubs. In the south, there was only the club and the black gay community was the club and the soundtrack to the club was house music. So there's, it provided such an important connection. And you know, like I was saying about the inclusivity of house music, you hear that in the music. You hear that in Sterling Voice, it's all right. there. there. there. the, the, the, the, the, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the club. the club, the club, the club, the club, the club, the club, the club, the club, the club, the club, the club, the club, the club, the club, the club, the club the club the club the club the club the club the club the club the club the club the club the club the club the club, the club, the club, the club, the club, the club, the club. the club. the club. the club. the club. the club. the club. the club, the club, the club, the club, the clubs, the clubs, the clubs, the clubs, the clubs, the clubs, the clubs, the clubs, the clubs, the clubs, is clubs, the clubs, the club, is the clubs, the club, the club, the club, the club, the club, was saying about the inclusivity of House music, you hear that in the music, you hear that in Sterling Voice, it's all right. You know, you hear that in Joe Smooth's Promise Land.

You hear that in C.C.Rogers someday. You know, you hear that in Mr. Fingers, can you feel it? It's all about trying to seek for a better world for everybody. It's not just a day-Fing. thine-Fing. It's in in. It's in. It's in. It's in. It's in. It's in. It's in. It's in. It's in, it's in everybody. It's in everybody. It's in everybody. It's in everybody. It's in everybody a better world for everybody. It's not just a day pride anthem. It's an everybody thinking. It's talking about, this was the 80s, so it's talking about apartheid in South Africa. It's talking about all sorts of things that oppressed people. That's what House music is to me. So with those artists you've just named Chelsea. Inthe segment we featured you know the late great Frankie Knuckles Martha Wash made an appearance we actually got Martha Wash to just straight open up the zoom

camera and do a joke with us on the fly and she was with it on zoom she knew the button you like what ain't no sharp. Well because she's got I mean she's seen the errors you know she was two tons of fun she was the baking the the ba. the back the ba. the back the back the back the back the ba. the back the ba. the ba. the ba. the ba. the ba. the ba. the back. the back. the back. the back. She. She's the back. She was the back. She was the back. She was the back. She was the back. She was to to the b. She was. She was. She was the button. She was the button. She was the button. She was the buttoned. She was the buttoned. She was the button. She was the button. She was the button. She was the button. She was the button. She was the button. She was the button. She was. She's. She. She. She's. She. She. She. She. She. She. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's the the the the the the the the the to. the to. the to. to. the the. the the. the seen the errors. You know, she was two tons of fun. She was the backing band for Sylvester. So she was, she's as disco as disco gets. Yeah, she is pedigree. That wraps up our time with house music, if you like that sort of thing, which personally I do not. Maybe I'm old school, but that type of music is undignified Shaking my hips like a heathen. No, thank you

There's no commandment about dropping it low That movie dirty dancing was about two people rubbing crotches in public places. It's a terrible film Wouldn't it? Roy. Is that you got? I knew you were a black woman. No, it's me, Martha Wash. What's this I hear about you not liking dance music? Martha, I cannot abide by dance music. Not a single note. I'm a man of culture. I shimmy once a decade and that's it. Nonsense. Everyone can dance.

Everyone must dance. Hit its studio. Hit what from the... You are gonna... Oh, oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh. Come on, Roy. Chelsea, who were some of the other DJs or singers in the house genre that came up in the research that they just, we just ran out of time. I mean, there's a lot. Like, that's the thing with House is like, there's so many thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. thi. thate. that, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to, to, to, t. t. to, t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t just ran out of time on. I mean, there's a lot. Like, that's the thing with House. It's like, there's so many DJs and so many people that were integral. I know, especially on the,

we were trying to find, you know, a lot of women DJs that helped out early on. And we came up with Yvon Turner, the answer dub mix that is this huge song and she actually was never properly credited for it. She was actually credited on the original vinyl as Evan Turner. They credited her as a man weirdly and that happened her a few times in her career and she ended up actually leaving but then coming back a couple years ago and got Grammy nominated for a song so you know she's like managed to do the whole thing but you know people like her. And I recommend to see Yvon Turner tracks. the the the the the the the the th. th. the th. th. the th. the thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thu thu thu thu thu thu the the thi thu thu thi thi thi the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the original the original the original the original the original the original the original the original the original the original the original the original the original the original the the th. th. thin vinyl. thin vinyl th. thin thin th. thu. thu. tu. the the the the tu. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th do the whole thing but you know people like her and I recommend to see Yvonne Turner tracks just while we're on Yvonne Turner oh sure yeah I would I think they would like and know Google

Whitney Houston I'm your baby tonight the Vaughan Turner mix do yourself a favor and also Lisa Stansfield you can't deny it the Yvonne tu mix and Lela Hatha Hatha the way the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the deny it, the Yvonne Turner mix. And Layla Hathaway, heaven knows the Yvon Turner mix. I just want to throw that out there because that's, Vaughn Turner's, I'm sorry about that, okay, just had to do it. No, all good. All good. And then on the singer side, I think, one of the things that's very cool and that's, and th th, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, the the than, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, tho, tho, tho, than, than, than, than, than, than, than, than, than, than, thanks, than, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, the thanks, thanks, the than, than of the things that's very cool and interesting about house music, it really allows for a lot of women to sing it full voice, whereas like, especially now, I feel like in a lot of pop music, it's not.

Very normal. So, especially, you know, in the 80s and 90s, we talked about Martha Walsh, but there was also Crystalate who had this huge hit free, and she's one of the most commercially successful house music singers ever. And when we were speaking about the sampling of these disco records early on, you have Lolita Holloway's love sensation, which then got turned into good vibration, which everybody knows, but she actually also did not get credited for her vocals because it was just remixed and sampled so many times. So you know, there's so many women that have like made it in this, and made dance music

their main career because especially for a lot of black women with huge like church gospel vocals, like house music is at home. It's a safe space, and it's a place where it's consistent work and they know that people will listen to it, they'll get paid for it, and their voices will be appreciated. One of the things that is often overlooked I feel is lesbians. Back in the good old days when I would go clubbing and things, they were like lesbians who were just out being themselves and finding places because because it's hard for especially, you know, black and brown women to be queer in public. And I feel like they are often relegated to the, at the bottom,

when in reality, at that time particularly, there were a lot of female DJs running, like coming to the store and buy things for, you know, the Paris Club and all these other places that were going on at the time that just catered more specifically toward women. So there was a place that existed for them in this sort of pantheon or this hierarchy of black and queer. Like it wasn't just men. You know there were a lot of women, there were a lot of trans people. I knew Queens that kept razor blades in their cheek because they couldn't get home unless they had some protection. Keep a razor blade in

between your toes. So all you gotta do is kick your shoe off and you can kick somebody in the face if they try to, you know, mess with you. Like, these are like hard bitches. Like, you know, just ain't playing with you, and you're gonna know it. You could learn a lot of self-protection, a lot of self-protection things that I know from trans women back in the day.

Keep $50 in your shoes just in case you get arrested, eye bond. Like all the good, all the good street stuff, like the street knowledge came from, you know, trans girls, especially the ones who were, uh, the girl. We need this knowledge in the, in the textbooks. I mean, and if you had somebody had, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you had, you had, you had, you had, you had, you had, you had, you had, you had, you had, you had, you had, you had, you, you, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th, the, the, the, the, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, th girls, girls. See, this why we can't get rid of CRT in schools. We need this knowledge in the, in the textbooks. I mean, and if you had somebody, and if you had, you know, a trans woman, you know, that had your back, like that, baby. Oh, baby, she would go to town. Speaking of inclusion, after the break, I want to talk about the way that Europe played a role into the evolution of house music and what many would argue is the pushing out an erasure of black and gay faces within the craft and how that affected the evolution of house

music. We're going to get into that after the break. This is beyond the scenes. Beyond the scenes, we are back, we are talking house music. Now we have discussed the foundation of it, we've discussed the base of it, the origins of it, but let's talk a little bit more about how it evolved beyond America and how that led to what I suspect would be some of the erasure of black and LGBTQ folks from the historical context of the music. Why do you all think the erasure started and what role did the global evolution of house music play in that? Well, I don't have anything against Europe in the erasure because Europe is responsible for house music gaining its international popularity. When house music started,

nobody in the states in terms of music journalism, in terms of anything cared one small bit. It was the European journalist who came over here and wrote about house music. It was the licensing deals from the small, independent Chicago labels that theythey licensed and took over to Britain. And in the UK, these records became like number one records, Jack Your Body, the house music anthem. They became number one records. When over here, nobody was trying for them. I remember one of the best, one of the most important house groups of all time,

Ten City. They were signed to Atlantic records here, but the best, one of the most important house groups of all time, 10 City. They were signed to Atlantic Records here, but their record was blowing up overseas. Do you think that Atlantic Records gave them money to tour overseas? No. The lead singer Byron, he had to ask his grandmother for the money. She gave him a razor blade, told him to slit underneath the curtain where she hit her money. $10,000 dropped out on the floor and that was his touring budget. They went over there and toured it and I believe it was that's the way Love Love is became

a top 10 UK pop record but not because of any support of the US labels. And also all of the old house music legends can go overseas now and still get a check and still perform and they get performed like rock stars. What really happened is that and we haven't talked about this yet but we can never underestimate the power the just the loss that happened with AIDS. That decimated the black gay community at every single level. So that affected the people that were making the music. That affected the people that were in the clubs listening to the music. Those clubs began to close because there wasn't enough of an audience.

We're talking about estimates where some black gay clubs feel like between the 80s and the 90s, they lost 40 and 50% of their audience. More. Or more. And so as the music's getting popular, it starts getting played in the white clubs and these big clubs, it started to be calling the big rooms. So the music started to be couldn't be made for these big white clubs, it started to be calling the big rooms. So the music started to be made for these big rooms that were mostly white. It wasn't being made for a black gay audience anymore, and it lost many of the, it lost the soulfulness, the rootedness in R&B, and it lost the sense of social responsibility that was so much a part of early house. So to me that's where the erasure comes from. I don't blame a UK kid who

grew up with, you know, 10 City and Steve Silk Hurley in the top 10 trying to create their own version of that. I mean, that's just something people are going to try to do. I think it was because so many black creators and audiences died out because of AIDS that made it very easy for the erasure to happen because once you got these big rooms, these white gay spaces doing their version of house music, then those DJs became the prominence and they came to set the aesthetic. And it actually became the first time, I think, in the history of music, I'm going to go this far to say, when dance music in general was not connected to the priorities of

black people. Like every from the blues to jazz to R&B, Motown, to disco, to original house. All of those were, um, the aesthetics of those were founded by black people and were rooted in black culture. But once you started getting the music playing in these white venues and these circuit parties and all of that kind of stuff, dance, raves, all that, thank you EDM, all that, that was no longer rooted in anything black. And that to me is what led to the erasure. I feel like part of this also exists on a level that. And that to me is thate that to me is what that that to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. that that the the the. that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that the. the. the. the. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the theee theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee the the the to the erasure. I feel like part of this also exists on a level that has a lot to do with socioeconomics. So I knew growing up 30 DJs, 15 of whom I would easily say could kick my ass and DJ were in a battle. They were great, great, great, but you know, you have to get a job and you know you, which you just go DJ all the time.

People particularly black and brown people often don't have a parent or a family structure that allows them to be independent Musos to you know chase their dreams and you know like I knew people that wanted to keep DJN but somebody mama got sick and he had to go get a job I knew people who DJN broke you know got into a motorcycle accident and couldn't keep Djan because you know it didn't have insurance, you know, got into a motorcycle accident and couldn't keep DJing because, you know, didn't have insurance and, you know, all these sorts of stories that I feel are particularly tethered to black and brown and their own and often queer spaces because

of a socioeconomic position. Oftentimes, particularly with black and brown queer people, they were excised from the homes. You know, when someone found out that they were gay or queer or transgender or, you know, just not, not right, whatever it is. And so they were, they living on the street. They are, you know, doing these things and trying to cobble together a sense of expression from whatever they can, however they can, whenever they can. That's hard. And then

that's also why a lot of the AIDS, when it came in, I remember people just disappearing, you know, just not there anymore. You know, you would, like, even at the record store, you know, what happened to so and so? And then somebody would come in with a little spot on their face or something, something looked a little different about them. And then the next thing you hear is that they're in the hospital, but you know, it was still a shame attached to it. So no one really would say the real the real, the real, the real, the real, the real, the real, the real, the real, the real, the real, the real, the real, the real, tha, the thi, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, to, to, that, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, thin... So, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, their, their, their, their, their, their, they.a.a.a.a. So, so, so, so, so, so, somea, somea, somea, you know, we called it the package back then, you know, she's got the package. And people would make, you know, oh, working me to my last

tea sale, honey. You try to find the humor even in tragedy, but I can, like when, Craig is talking about, I felt like, man, I remember just so many people who I just disappeared that I no longer see that like aren't around and it kind of like made me, you know, like in a better world where people had been able to be recognized and be seen and not treated as outcast and not sort of stuck on the side on these margins. There could have been more, but also feel like if that was the case, then these marginalized people wouldn't have been so eager to live for today and live for now and have this enthusiasm, have this like strive and drive to create and do these things because tomorrow is not promise. Or, you know, like you better get it now because tho because you never know. And, th, and th, and th, th, th, to, th, to, to, th, to, to, th, th to, th to, th to, th th th th to, th th to, th th to th th, thu, thu, thu to thu, to thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu, thu thu, thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu to to thu to to thu to to thu thu to thu thu to to to thu to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to thu to thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu strive and drive to create and do these things because tomorrow's not promised. Or you know, like you better get it now because you never know. It's so much deeper too, not deeper, but I mean there's another layer in that you have to talk about the business owners and the social economics of black club ownership. Once black club owners were losing their audiences, they couldn't

always afford to pick up and start a new venue somewhere else just because of the socionomic conditions that affect black businesses. You know, so that's why you had the white-owned big clubs and what do white-owned big clubs want as their customers, they want white people, they want white DJs. So that's why I don't quite, I'm not so quite as quick to blame it on Europeans. Because if you think about a lot of dance acts like Daft Punk on their first album, they don't do anything but like they have the song teachers where they just throw out. I get a the their th th th th th th th th th. I th. I th. Yeah th. Yeah th. Yeah their th. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like, like, like, like, their, their, their, their, th, th. their, their, their, th. th. that, that, that, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, th.. th. the, the, the, the, the, their, the, the, their, the, their, their, th. thi. their, th. thi. thi. thi. thi. the, the, the, the. the. the. theat, that, that, that, that, that, their, their, their, the. the. the Teachers where they just throw out people's names. I'm in it. I get a shout out. Oh yeah, yeah, you are, yeah, right, exactly, exactly.

After the break, we're going to take it home and we're going to talk about where house music can go. We're going to talk about Beyonce and Drake. It's beyond the scenes. We'll be right back. Beyond the scenes, bringing it home, we are talking house music. Now, we've talked about the de-evolution of it in terms of black and gay creators being able to still be at the forefront of the creative evolution of it. So, Derek and Craig, I want to pose this question to you all before we talk Beyonce and Drake. Do you think y'all's work and contributions to the industry help keep the history, the black history,

and the gay history of house music alive. Let's just talk a little bit about the work that you do now to make sure that this genre still remains as relevant as it was, you know, back in the day, because, you know, Derek, I feel to some degree with what happened in the 90s, with the eighth epidemic, what happened with poverty and just the, you know, and we really could even blame crack in jail and drug sentencing as well as part of that. Yes, yes, yes, yes, all of that.

Losing some degree of your autonomy and being able to control this genre, you lost some of your autonomy, so talk a little bit about the things that you all are doing now to try and get some of that back. There's a lot. There's really a lot. I mean, I travel a lot for work, for DJing, playing clubs, doing various events and things like that. And I always try to make sure that there is a heavy dose of blackness and something that represents me and my upbringing and my people and my feelings in what I do.

I don't play hits. I don't play the latest, whoever the new girl is song. I mean, I, you know, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, L. Chapa, A. S. S. B. G. G. G. P. Who ever. D. G. G. Pooke. You know, Billy, somebody. I, I, I don't because that, that doesn't represent me or speak. So I play records with jazz, I play records with funk, I play records with blues keys,

I play records with women who are telling you, selling you their story. Like you're going to hear this right quick. I feel that one of the best parts about being able to still be here and still have a platform is that you should use it. You know, you should take that platform and make it so that it has some sort of relevance to what it is you're trying to say. Like I have people that you know DJ friends who I don't want to say sell out but you know they're oh it's about the music it's about the I mean yes about the music but it's about the voice you know I always say the voice was the first instrument and people who don't understand that can't quite relate to a lot of things I do.

You play a lot of vocals, you do this, you know, I'm like, the voice is the first instrument. People, you know, they made, I didn't see any, dinosaurs didn't hit on rocks or, you know, but they did holler you know all animals even going back you know that's that's how you got a mate you sing your little song in the tree or whatever you make your call in the forest go go go go go and that's how you got some so I mean so I mean that's what we do with music and with instruments we do these things because there's also a like level of I have something to say or to say or to say. that. that. that. that. that's that's that's that's that's that's to say. I I to say something. I to say. I to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to that's. that's. to that's. that's. that's. I that's. I that's. I that's. I that's. I that's. I that's. I that's. I that's. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have some. I have. I have some. I have. I have. I have. I have. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. with instruments. We do these things because there's also a level of, I have something to say, or I'm trying to get some, or you know, there's a story I want to tell,

you know, communication, all these sorts of things. And so I still feature heavily, black and brown people singing and playing and Music that suits and sits within that wheelhouse. I mean my parents are from Miss Mississippi like Miss is it like I called my dad to yesterday to make sure they had water because Jackson, Mississippi ain't got no water. So I was like y'all got water down now. He's like yeah, but you know, but you know, and I was like, you know, that. And I was like, you know, my, thou, and I was like, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, and th, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and th, and th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. thu. thu. thu. thu. thu. that, that, that, that, that, that, thu. thu. I was like, y'all got water down now? He's like, yeah, but you know, and I was like, well, I mean, you know, my parents, not stepping fetch it out. I don't want to sound like that, like my parents are just in a ten roof shack. Oh, no, my mother's side is from Clarksdale, so I'm not offended in the end of the road where the road stopped, you know, that was where my grandmother's house was. So I am of this kind of like people who really, really,

really had it, I won't say, I don't want to like, I don't want to make it sound like, you know, these are victims because they never really considered themselves victims. They don't play like their victims. My parents are not victims of anything. but they, their conditions and and their situations weren't always the best. They weren't geared for success and the fact that you know they made it out my mom's a teacher, my dad's engineer, like you know they raised their kids in the suburbs and said we had enough of this cold, we're moving back and allowed me to go to private private to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their kids in the suburbs and said we had enough of this cold, we're moving back. And allowed me to go to private school and this sort of thing. I find that in all that and all the like whiteness that I was often the blackness in the whiteness. As a child, a lot, you know, I always had my roots to keep me strong, if that's another analogy, you know, like a good foundation of things.

You know, my roots kept me upright. My roots kept me from doing some things because there's always like, you know, an ancestor here or like, you know, my mother still sits on my shoulder and corrects my English. You know, and this sort of thing. So, I feel like being able to still be the blackness in the whiteness is part of my very platform in general and the way I approach a lot of this and go through it. Beautiful. Craig, talk a little bit about your writing. Yeah, as for me, one of the most perplexing questions that I'm dealing with in my writing is like I think a lot about the brothers who aren't here, like the brothers who like might have become superstars but past evased, the brothers who like might have become superstars but past evade. The brothers

who might have been a great producer but just didn't get that chance. That haunts me all the time and I don't know quite how to get at that. But I know I do write, you know, so much of my work is about preserving the stories and the names of black gay men that have contributed to pop music throughout, you know, from singing the Sissy Man's Blues to Sausy Santan, a booty. You know, I mean, it's all the way. And, you know, I just wanted to call some names. I mean, I think we do have to talk about the people that were out during the period like the Robert Evans, you know, one of the greatest vocalists, you know, house music vocalists ever. Like, and David Cole using his church piano playing, you know, became part of C&C Music Factory and

then remix the Witneys and stuff. But just these men I think it's important to tell those stories. I just kind of try to record to record to record to record to record to record to record to record to record to record the stories to record the stories the stories the stories the stories th th. thi thi the stories thi. I feel I feel I feel I feel I feel I feel I feel I feel I feel I feel I feel I feel I feel I feel I feel I feel their their their their their their their their their their their their their. their. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their. their. their. their. their, their. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi. thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I'm. I th. I'm th. I've. I've th. I'm, th. the. the. their, their, their, their, their, th men, I think it's important to tell those stories. I just kind of try to record the stories of people who I feel haven't been given their due and also to sort of share my stories of how it felt literally to be a black gay man in their 20s, in the 80s, dealing with this kind of stuff in real time. To that point with the saucy Santanas of the world and the more present-day artist Chelsea, give us some of those genres that have been influenced by House since its rise through the 70s and 80s.

Yeah, I feel like House is ever present and omnipresent actually, which is so crazy because a lot of people don't necessarily equate it with a lot, but it's had so many influences. So I think you have Acid House, which is kind of like known for more of like squelching noises. It sounds a little bit, it sounds different and Ron Hardy was actually one of the ones who helped to kind of bring it to the forefront. Pre-techno. It's like proto-techno. So then you had you th, you th, you th, you th, you th, you th, you th, you, you, you, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the, the, the, the, themed, themed, themed, themed, themed, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, the, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, thea.. the. I the had, you know, you kind of started Acid House, you know, two live crew, two of the members in there actually started Miami Bass, which is huge

and is also part of the house family. They also helped to start, you know, Baltimore Club music, which we still hear to this day. You know, I will say for people the latest-ish ones that you've heard more mainstream is probably like on Drake's album, Sticky is like a Baltimore Club influence, but also WAP samples, you know, early Baltimore Club song, you know, whores in this house. So, you know, we hear that one a lot.

You have Amapiano, which is like a South African house, you know, a genre, like deep house, gospel house, hip-hop house, ghetto house, like houses like everywhere. Gospel house house, we're going to Jesus. Oh yeah, that's true. Yeah, gospel houses. Yeah, gospel houses. Yeah, we're actually just finished doing a gospel house record. Every Sunday morning, yeah. No, every Sunday morning, I listen. DJ Spin, who's a Baltimore first evening. He has his Sunday service. Gospel, you know, because of the thing is the pianos like that Marshall Jefferson brought in through the house music anthem.

That's nothing but church piano. And then you got people like David Cole who were used to the church. So all that piano you hear in house music, house remixes, were used to the church. So all that piano you hear in house music house remixes, that's all from the church. And the singers were all from the church. So it's like, that's the most natural thing. That's the most natural thing in the world. If you had to sit in church eight hours on a Sunday and couldn't leave except to, you know, you get some food and then, the the, their, their, their, that was your life, you know, especially for a lot of black men and women, that was your life for the first 16, 17 years of you being on this earth.

Like you, it's in your bone. Yeah. And how you hear music. It's in how you approach people getting happy. And it's the release you want from it that you expect from it. Oh, she doesn't get happy. You got a fan them and like put it, you know, the whole, like all of that, you know, the church fan. And you, because that's a it that's like a club you know that's what the club is you get there and people get the holy ghos on the dance floor. Church is the club with better chairs if you're lucky. Frankie Knuckles used to call the club the

Haven for the Children Fallen from Grace so he was very much aware that a lot of the gay people that came to his club were people that were grown up in the church experience but were then outcast because they were gay. So yeah you need to get on that gospel house wave now, come on now. This has been a wonderful discussion. I will end on a simple question. We can answer as quickly as we can. Chelsea, you'll go first. We'll end with Derek, Drake and Biance house influence albums that came out in 2022. Good or bad? Chelsea go. I will say that I think that anytime somebody black mainstream artists taking back a black

genre, overall, I will say is a good thing. I think also they're two completely different types of house, which I think is another part of it. But, you know, Beyonce is ballroom house. Drake is more, I'd say like tropical, a little bit more UK, I'm a piano-ish, but yeah, Afro beats it. It's a little bit different, but I enjoy both go up in the club. That's what matters to me. thia. thia. thia. thia. thia. I thia. tho. tho. I tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho, I tho, I tho, I thi. thi. thi. thi. tho, I tho, I tho, I'm tho, I'm thi. thi. thi. B. thi. B. B. thi. B. B. B. B. B. th. B. th. B. th. B. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thee. theean. thean. thean. thean. thean. thean. thean. thean. theananan. thean. the. the in the club, that's what matters to me. So that's what I'll say. Yeah, I agree. There's just two different albums.

I mean, Drake is very much as Cows has crossed the Black Atlantic, as I say, you know, as try houses moved its way through the UK, through South Africa, back up through Toronto. Exactly, really. I mean, that's what it is. And it's that's that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I'll. the the they. they. the w. the whole. the whole. the whole. the whole. the whole. totally. the whole. totally. th. the whole. th. the whole. the whole. A reverse middle passage. Exactly, really. I mean, that's what it is. And it's, you know, so it has that kind of modern feel. Where Beyonce, I think even when she's not making house tracks on the record, she incorporates a lot of the sort of bravado and self-love and perseverance, those themes that are so, um, particular to house music, She really embodies those in the album even though you could say like Break My Soul and that the last song the

samples Kevin Avi on Saman and Renee like those are the most housey songs I feel even on tracks like heeded and stuff like that you get the feeling of house and so yeah I love that I think it's fantastic. All right Derek what say you final word well I I I I I don't like it Here's the thing two of my absolute best friends in the entire world one of whom I started labor with and one of whom I've been best friends with since I was 17 wrote and produce some of the things on the Biance album. the thousand thousand thousand th. th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tou tou tou tou tou tou tou tou tou tou tou the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the entire world, one of whom I started labor with and one of whom I've been best friends with since I was 17, wrote and produced some of the things on the Beyonce album. Honey and my ex-classic music company partner, Luke Solomon, did Alien Superstar, and then they did

that other, one of the other songs, I forgot the name of it. So I give them credit for entree into this kind of this different world. Being present and being seen being in these places, presenting this music and having something to do with a large amount of shine. Honey is my best friend since we were, you know, forever. It's great for them, I think, and it's good for a community to see black people be black people unabashedly and deal with black producers and have a sense of this pipeline. And deal with black producers and have a sense of this pipeline of this music. It's started here and it's come through.

I think there's a place for it. I find that often it's not to my taste because it's created and made for someone who isn't me, apparently. You know, it's made for someone who listens to the radio or has a much, their incursion into music is a lighter and often, it doesn't come fraught with the kinds of issues and problems that I have had to go through and currently deal with regarding music. My music experience is it's heavy a lot. I understand that. What you say it's essentially

like taking if we're gonna go back to food again as an analogy, if you cook this the home way and you've used everything in your kitchen and it's a home cooked meal and you see a more mass produced version of it, that is still flavorful and decent and does the job. I mean yeah, it is but if you grew the vegetables but that's not that and raise the animals and then, you know, all these sorts of things like I grew the vegetables.... the vegetables. the vegetables. the vegetables. the vegetables. the animals and then you know all these sorts of things like I grew the vegetables I helped to raise these animals you know I I feel like I have maybe I'm a bit precious about it but I can be a bit precious about if I want to you know and that's my place in that and I I respect them and I am happy

that you know they're putting a little shine on things and that they're able to cast some of this music in a different their this music this music this music this music this music this music their this music in a different this music in a different their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. their. their. their their their their their their their their the, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi thi, thi. thi. the, thus, that, they they that, thus, thus, that, thus, thus, thi, thi, thi, thi, DJed with, we did a party here at Chicago a couple months ago. These are people who are in the community. So I like that they are also getting shine. It gives you a, a, you know, if you could see it, you can be it kind of thing that posits these people. And a place that offers, you know, this is something available to you too. Honey being trans is, you know, one of the absolute first trans people to ever be on like the Billboard Top Ten as like, you know, a producer or something, like these

sorts of things. So there's a place for it my appreciation for it is not in a critical place. It's more in it. I feel like the corona of it the corona of it is amazing. Yeah it's net positive for the genre it's net positive for the people who have been ten toes down in that culture even if it's not positive for the genre. It's net positive for the people who have been 10 toes down in that culture, even if it's not something that you would run with, this is a terrible analogy, but it's the way a lot of stand-up comedians feel about tick-talkers and internet comedians and they go, well, that ain't comedy, hey, if it's bringing asses to the seats and these people are going to comedy clubs clubs,

If it's bringing asses to the seats and these people are going to comedy clubs and helping keep comedy clubs open, I see them as net positive for the genre. We could talk for for years about this but I thank you all for giving me almost an hour on this topic. Thank you all so much for going beyond the scenes with us today about house music. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Thanks Royne. music. Thank you. Thank you for having us. That's pretty nice. Watch the Daily Show, weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount Plus. This has been a Comedy Central podcast.