The Daily Show: Ears Edition - The Interviews | Ari Emanuel, Tom Morello, Jessica Tarlov, Merritt Wever

Episode Date: September 27, 2026

Catch all of the past week's great guests in one place. Ari Emanuel, of TKO and WME Group, sits down with Jon Stewart to discuss his new memoir, “Roll the Calls.” The two discuss what Emanuel has learned over his legendary career: how to advocate for himself despite his dyslexia, how to channel anger and ego into a successful business, and how to stand up for the values you believe in. Plus, hear why Emanuel thinks his brother Rahm would be an incredible president— even though he’s NOT running. Grammy-winning artist Tom Morello sits down with Desi Lydic to discuss his new solo album, “Everyone Gets Everything They Want.” Morello shares how this is the heaviest thing he’s made since the first Rage Against the Machine album, how he lured his 15-year-old son, Roman, into a guitar career using “Stairway to Heaven” and how Roman ended up co-writing five songs on the album. He also discusses his upcoming festival, Power to the People, and credits his late activist mother, Mary, as the reason he believes every guitar riff can be an act of resistance. Jessica Tarlov, co-host of "The Five" on Fox News and the "Raging Moderates" podcast, joins Desi to chat about her new book "I Disagree: Winning Arguments Without Losing Friends." The pair discuss going toe-to-toe with co-hosts across the aisle, taking criticism in stride (especially from the president), and how the first step to changing minds is opening doors. Plus, hear the special story behind Tarlov’s glasses and which Democrats she has her eye on for the 2028 presidential election. Three-time Emmy winner Merritt Wever sits down with Desi to discuss her new film, “Primetime,” the story of Chris Hansen and “To Catch a Predator.” They talk about her first Daily Show audience-member experience, how Edie Falco became her “acting mom,” and the story behind her viral, emotionally honest first Emmy acceptance speech. Plus, Wever explains how she dove into her “Primetime” character by learning the art of “host finagling” from veteran TV producers and exploring what happens when news, entertainment, and law enforcement get entangled. -- The Daily Show airs weeknights at 11/10c on Comedy Central. Stream full episodes on Paramount+ Follow TDS: YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What does a sunny getaway with Air Canada sound like? Sunny Jamaica moves to its own rhythm. Rio comes alive long after the sun goes down. Philippines slows everything down. And just when you think you've heard it all, there's Sunny Lima. However you imagine your sunny escape, Air Canada can take you there.

Book hot fairs and vacation packages today. Nice travels. travels. Where some see heroes and others see egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. While others follow the noise, we follow the money.

Learn more at Bloomberg.com. You're listening to Comedy Central. serves as executive chair and CEO of TKO and executive chairman of WME Group. His new memoir is called Roll the Calls. Please welcome to the program. RMA. By as way of discreet.

closure. I work for you. You are my agent, sort of. I think that's a role reversal. I work for you, John. Bullshit. This is the longest I've ever talked to you. A lot of people can say that. Very true. You're a powerful man. And you're a legendary agent. You're very interesting. But I don't know if you're this interesting. Ari, this is 400.

17 pages. Did you count how many Fs there were? There's a tremendous amount. You should have called the book. Fuck me. No, fuck you. It's 400 page.

I had to read this. Yeah. We could have waited until Bob Odenkirk did the audio. Bob Odenkirk did the audio? Yeah. How did you get him? Well, it goes way back. I was Bob's agent when Mr. Show happened.

Oh God, on HBO. What a great show. Yeah, and Bob's still a friend, called him up. He said, I'm going to read it anyway. Why don't I just read it and make some money? I said, great. That's the ancient thing there. How much do you as his agent pay him to do your project?

So much. So much. So much. I see. Yeah. And is this, what is the impetus of writing the book, if I may, because there's a lot of other people in the industry that you've worked with that receive, if I may, less than stellar treatment

in the book, but you're still alive and so are they. Why? Should I be serious for two seconds? No. Okay. Yes, be serious for two seconds. No, listen, I know

this is going to shock you, but most of the time I'm talking for other people when I represent them. This is the first time I'm talking in my voice. And the main reason is I'm dyslexic ADHD. A.D. A lot of parents have come up to me and ask me about that.

And this is kind of their Thomas guide, which we used to drive in a way to the map, to say, if you help your kids, one, get endurance and go through dyslexia and let them struggle as hard as it is for a kid. Right. They can turn out, OK. And here's the ways that they can turn out, OK.

And the great thing about dyslexia is, you're not linear thinker. Right. You're, in my opinion, you become a free thinker, because you're not attached to the words. You're attached to other things. So this is about given the setback that you may have had with dyslexia, the fact that you can fight through it.

And then it's also for kids, a road back. This is not for kids. This is maybe the least, like, this ain't Miss Rachel. Let's put it that like. But here's what I would say to you. A lot of people starting out in the business. I started out, making 15 cents a mile, and this was my path. You were a mailroom guy.

I was a mailroom guy. And this is a Thomas guy, a ways about. the struggles that it takes, because, you know, success, as you know, is not a straight line. There's ups, there's down, there's pain, and there's a lot of emotional pain, physical pain, actually, that you have to go through if you want to make it. And this is just to say, it's okay. One, it's okay to say what I want. One, it's okay to go for it, and one it's okay to have agency for yourself.

Right. And I think one of the most important things for a kid. To advocate. To advocate for yourself. I never had our best friends. Did people advocate for you when you had dyslexia? Because I know, you know, and you've talked about this, your parents had very high expectations. For those you who don't know, Ari's brother Rahm, Emmanuel, worked for Barack Obama and Bill Clinton and was the mayor of Chicago.

And your brother, Zeke, is a world-renowned physician. Correct. And that-cologists. And that made you feel sometimes insecure. Well, my mom put our grades on the fridge. You walk in A plus, A plus, idiot. You know? I wanted my voice.

And not that I knew I wasn't stupid, just because you're dyslexic, you're not stupid. But I wanted that ability to kind of make a name for myself. And it takes going forward, it takes agency, and it takes believing in yourself in the face of a lot of different things. And the other thing it does is if somebody tells you, no, you can. can't do it, which they told me I couldn't read. They told me you shouldn't start an agency. It told me a lot of things I couldn't do. But you have to believe, and that takes a lot, emotionally, physically, to go up against

people. And that's not easy. You do talk a lot about the dyslexia, your brother's achievements, it said in you, you begin the book with it, a rage and anger in you. I don't see it right now, but I've been on the phone and have seen it. I have, for you, I have love, gone after people with rage. Yes. Yes.

Thank you. But where does, is that where the rage is from? You know, I didn't have a plan B. I found the entertainment business. The minute I heard about it, I fell in love and I went for it. And that was, whether it's not going

to business school, making 15 cents a mile, my brother's making fun of me, my father's saying, what are you doing in his heavy accent? and going. Ali. Ali. Yeah. And so for me, there was no plan B.

There was only plan A. So I just had to make it work. And it didn't matter what it took. I did it. Nothing illegal. But I did whatever it took. Page 47. I don't want to say I circled it.

As you look back, because I think, and I don't think I'm speaking out of school here, but you have mellowed. You've been on a journey. Would that be fair to say? You want to bring the wife out and see her. She says there's like three pages at the end where I was like, oh my God, now he's Forrest Gump. Like, what the fuck happened?

Here's what I would say happen. A businessman said to me at one point, he said, you have to know when you're on the field of business and when you're off the field of business. When you're on the field of business, you do what you need to do. And when you're off the field, you've got to be off the hill. And my wife always points out to me, and I've started a new business.

He says, when you're off the field, let's be off the field. And it has made me better on the field. That doesn't mean there's not thousands of calls and a lot of aggressive. Working hard is not the same as working angry. Correct. And I have gone through a lot of work to get to. You go on like licking toad expeditions. Correct, I do.

Now, what was that about? What were you trying to get a hold of? Well, Dr. Calm, my shrink, said to me... His name is not Dr. Calm, by the way. No, definitely not. He said to me at one point, you have an ego problem. And then we did a lot of work on the ego problem. What was the ego problem?

Too much or too little? Hello? What are you talking about? Too much. Yeah. All right. And he said at one point, which really stuck with me, he goes, you know, this anger problem, the ego problem,

back in the 50s, people that were really successful in business were considered smart. And for whatever reason, that statement hit me. And I remember my parents coming into L.A. and I picked them up at the airport. And we were talking about, I had just taken over William Morris with Patrick and everybody. And that was explaining the business to my dad who was asking me a question of my mom. And they, in the back seat, they go, well, who does all that? And I said, well, it's not my brother Rahm or my brother, Zeke.

you know, hello. And that was my life in not a horrible way in a beautiful way. And I then kind of figured out, you know, I'm not stupid and I'm not afraid of being found out. But that's still sticking

with you. No, no, no. No, no. As you're leading WME, you're still driven by this idea that I'm not that dyslexic kid. Well, if your mom and dad said that you're like, who does all this stuff on this show? You would be like, well, You don't think that's what they say. Of course.

My brother went to Princeton for a day. And so I realized, you know, that's just something in the past. And I went on a journey trying to figure out how to deal with that. I did some psychedelics, even though my brother, Zieg, says he would never do it, even though he realizes that there's benefit to him. Right. And it helped me get through, plus being married to a wonderful woman. Right.

this little ego thing. You feel like you've come to a different place. Yeah. And why does Rom still give you shit? I think even at your wedding. Yeah. Like he gave you shit at your wedding. Yeah, that's just competition.

Listen, really why I wrote the book, I just want my mom to love me five seconds more than that. That's it? What's your thing? Let me do say something. My mom is still alive. She's 93. I'm doing an event in Chicago.

and she's coming and I'm going to roll her on stage because she's in a wheelchair. She's still a monster, fantastic lady. And I think I got five days more of love than those two guys guys. Yeah, I do. And that makes it all worth it? Oh, yeah. You know what you could do to really screw ROM over? What?

Oh, dear God, this would be hilarious. You should run for president. You run for president. It would blow his mind. Let me just say some of the interviews, is your brother running? They ask you if your brother. Rom is running for president. No, he's not.

He hasn't. What are he talking about? Okay. So here's what I would say. Here's what I say. Here's what I say about my brother. Yeah. Who I love my brothers dearly.

Thank God we're on different parts of the country. Once in Washington, once he worked in the Clinton administration, Congress, unbelievable mayor fought the teachers union on strike for nine days. Right. Then went into, I think, the tough Obamacare for, President Obama, got through the financial crisis in 08, and he then went into a region. We worked with all our allies to combat what I think is China's aggression. Right.

If you're asking me if, not that he is, running, there's not one person more qualified than my brother to do it. Really? And he would be an incredible president, and I would be unbelievably proud of him. Oh, my God. You buying this? God, hold on one second. Hold on one second.

He's an agent. His whole job is, that's how he got Tyler Perry, his own studio. There is not one actor, I would trust more than you. Than Medea. Fantastic. But you don't, it's so interesting to me because, you know, when I read this book, I have to say, I had a feeling for you that I hadn't, had before. There's a lot of this that feels like you don't enjoy it, that there were moments,

you know, you talk about your thyroid gave out and you lost 20 pounds that, you know, you were squeezing it so hard that it felt torturous to you to live it. Is that how it felt going through it? Did you enjoy it? I've loved every minute. For real. People say, are you happy? Because I asked the question, are you happy? I would say the following. First of all, what the is happy? But second of all, I'm satisfied. I'm happy. And as my mother taught us when we were growing up, would you like to have a meaningful life or a life of pleasure?

I would rather have a meaningful life because that is a life of pleasure. And I have had an incredible meaningful life. I've enjoyed all of it. It has been brutal at times, but I have learned a ton. You did something, speaking of that, meaningful life, that can be brutal at times. You went to, you're being honored at the Simon Wiesenthal Center,

which is a huge Jewish organization, in your speech, you stand up, this is two years ago? Yeah. And you give a Jeremiah ad against Bibi Netanyahu. Yeah. And his treatment of Palestinians. Yeah.

And Israel's complicity in that. Yeah. To the point where people are booing you and walking out. huzaa because that's not an easy thing to do I give you a 10 another time here's what I that that goes to my mom and my dad

they took us down to protest civil rights movements in Chicago three little boys her walking down there from the suburbs but you're like a real like you're a Sabbath Jew like you do the whole like if I did that people would be like well sure he has a bacon egg and cheese for sandwich for Passover

but I'm I'm willing to stand up from what I believe in, what I think is right, and what I think is not right. You know, when my brother was in the White House during the Obama administration, Bibi Nanyahu in a meeting said, you're a self-hating Jew, and I think my brother's speech in Israel where he talked about he's not making Jews in Israel safe. Those are things that are important to do, and you have to stand up for yourself, have your voice, have agency, and those are the things my mom taught me. Right. Well done. I appreciate that.

What would you do as an agent? I'll give you one. This will be a nice little test. Let's say you're an agent and you've got a big music star and his opening act goes out and says things that and you're the kind of music star that's just out there

like, I wear dungarees with your picture on it. Like that kind of show. How would you as an agent and then stadiums start to cancel? And they say you've got to get rid of these guys. If you're representing Ed Sheeran What do you do? We'll go through it.

I'll have you represent McLemore. I'll have you represent Ed Shearin and I'll have you represent Bob Carr. I'll just do the McLemore for you. Do the McLeor for you. So as I would say to you is the following. I do not believe what is happening in the West Bank

is fair and right and just. But if you're talking about, and I had this conversation with a client recently, and we can all, the great thing is I'm okay to have a discussion, disagree, and get better. Absolutely.

But I don't believe the word genocide is the proper word for what happened in the West. You don't. I do not. So that would be your complaint about Malcolm. I would have this conversation with him where we can sit down as human beings. I don't want to live in a country that is a cult or in a kind of echo chamber. I want to have a conversation with him where we can all sit there and say, okay, here's the one argument, here's the other. And let's get to a point where we can have a conversation.

But even if it's not the proper word. Do I think it needed to go to the extent it needed to go to? Right. That they would literally have a guy say, you're not coming into my stadium because that's dangerous. That's my question. Right. Well, that's a conversation I would have with Bob Kraft

and those people about their opinions about those things. This is a lot of gray. Right. Who would you say, fuck you to first? I say, fuck you to a lot of people first. I mean in this situation, in this situation, it's too delicate to say, F you. Would you encourage Bob Kraft not to have canceled, not to have threatened to pull those guys? Bob Kraft, I don't know if you know, he does, you know, the blue square.

I don't know what that means. He has a, he has given a lot of money to a movement to stop hate. How's that going? Well, you know something? We need more of that. We need more people talking about let's not hate each other. talk to each other. Let's not talk about things that are really kind of, I think. Let's all get on the same page about what we're discussing. We can disagree, but let's not be disagreeable. I think

people have said that. And Bob Craft is doing an incredible job with the Blue Square to try and combat hate. And I don't like hate anywhere in the world. And I don't like Jews committing hate on West Bank Palestinians. I don't like any of it. And I think there's a way to kind of, we have to keep on having this conversation. Do you believe what he said on stage was hate? I don't think it was completely understanding the facts. And I think it was belittling to Jewish people too. So if someone got on stage and said like Happy Hanukkah or... Well, as I said in the book, there's certain people that have said things that I think are hateful. Right. And I have written about Mel Gibson and Kanye that I didn't think were right. How do you do? You know, it's so interesting because

it is the people in this book, like, you're in with very powerful, people and there are bodies and they are buried and like you have relationships that are severed people that you came up with yeah and it's been difficult yeah and you write about mel gipson and how upset you were and conya and all that but Elon escapes you know he's still a very good friend of yours but yeah he's very clearly i don't know if you get his twitter feed but i can't i can't stop it somehow i would say i think he's done incredible things for the human race and continues to do great and unbelievable things. And when I did, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I disagree with him.

Yeah. When I disagree with him, he and I have a conversation where we have a very intense conversation and hopefully I have moved him in this situation. I would have the conversation. Do you still do that? Like, can you call them up and go like, hey, what's with the Rhodesia nostalgia pictures? I text them all the time about stuff. Yeah.

And he accepts that. Oh, yeah. We get into very good conversations about it and heated. And I think that's a good thing. Again, I do not want to live in a cult. I want to live in a society. In society, you have to talk. You're a complicated individual. Listen, but I enjoy you very much.

I enjoy talking to you. And I very much enjoyed the book because my favorite part about the whole book is just out of nowhere, and this is random and this is very inside baseball, but you hate Jeffrey Katzenberg. And that's like, that's so funny to me. I mean, he, he, I was, we were a small agency. Yeah. He tries to, we get these seats right next to the Laker bench in the heyday. Phil Jackson.

This is the best. Shaq, Kobe, we're winning. Right. We can't afford to see. And getting Lakers tickets is for your business, you look like a big guy. We look enormous, right? Billboard. Yes.

He goes behind my back. I have a contract, tries to steal him. Your Lakers seats. On you own Kipper. And I go, I'm, I'm going to sue you. And I go. Then he doesn't give what we're starting out doesn't give us a package on a Jeffrey Lane show. Then I scream.

A package is you get a percentage of the profits and things like that and a fee that goes along when you bring like the director and an actor and a few other people. And then there's some other things that he does. And then I had a problem with, he called me up and says, do you want to give money to President Biden? I said, do you think I need you to help me get the President Biden? My brother was in the White House. And then, and then, and then when things go south, when things go south, and President Biden, it's going south for a way,

and I'm going nuts. Like I said a year before, like, this is not right. Raising the money, I can get you in a room. I call them up, does nothing. I'm like, what the fuck are we talking about here? You know, like, if you say you can do it one time, go deal with it.

But you said literally, you were on a date with your wife, present wife and he was sitting next to you and you asked to move loudly while sitting next to him. Yeah. And that's it. No. Of all the people you run in the world with, of all the Elons and the Kanye and all the blue squares, the one guy. No, but no. That guy is a guy who, from my perspective,

yeah. Does stuff that it's only about himself. All the stuff he talks about is about his own reflection. And, yeah, he definitely me, and I was not going to put up with it. That's such a great story. By the way, and it's all of it is in here. The Lanker's story that got, like, it's great.

And if you're in the business, it's great, and if you're not. I'm definitely not, it's not a, well, I'm not saying, here's all the things that I did great. No, it's a lot of stupid shit I did in that book. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. I love it.

Roll the call is available now. All right, I'll take a break. What does a sunny getaway with Air Canada sound like? Sunny Jamaica moves to its own rhythm. Rio comes alive long after the sun goes down. Philippines slows everything down. And just when you think you've heard it all, there's Sunny Lima. However you imagine your sunny escape, Air Canada can take you there.

Book hot fairs and vacation packages today. Nice travels. Winning musician and activist whose new solo album is called Everyone Gets Everything They Want. He's also the founder and curator of the upcoming festival, Power to the People. Please welcome Tom Lolo. It's very nice to see you. It is so nice to see you. Thank you for being here.

My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Tom Morello, legendary guitarist, rock and roll hall of fame inductee. I just learned that you didn't pick up the guitar until you were 17 years old. That's correct. I started very, very late. I had only heard of one other guitar player in history that had started that late and made records. You know who it was? Who wasn't?

Robert Johnson, who had to sell his soul to the devil to get good. Oh, my God. Given my Catholic background, I wasn't going to make the trip to the crossroads. Yes, smart. I just had to practice my ass off. It's very smart. I love hearing about how your journey to discovering your own unique sound. Yeah, yeah.

You started with the guitar that was frustrating to you. It was based on consecutive failures. I took some lessons at 13. I wanted to learn a Led Zeppelin song. They wanted to teach me how to tune the guitar. It seemed like a huge waste of time. So it sat in my closet for four years. Then I got a guitar and I could never find the right guitar tone that I wanted.

And so I finally just gave up and accepted the guitar tone that I had. And that's the guitar tone I've had on 22 consecutive records. Unbelievable. I think that is such a beautiful lesson in embracing the failure, abject failure. No, embracing what is and making something, making something unique, making it your own. I think that's so inspiring. Yeah, and one of the things that sort of all roads have kind of led to this record, and one of them was certainly, I was in a band before Rage Against the Machine, and we put out a record

with perhaps the worst name in the history of Western music. The album was called Something Bitchin' This Way Comes. I'm terribly sorry, but that band got... What was the bitching thing? What was something? It's best left forgotten. But the lesson from that was another abject. That record came out.

No one paid any attention to it. But we made that record. We listened to what everybody told us. The producer, what they said, what the record company said. The record came out. It was, you know, I had wanted to be a rock star. I wanted to make albums. I was 27 years old.

I've been dropped from my label. And I thought, well, I'm never, none of that stuff's going to happen, but I'm still a musician. And so I made a solemn vow on that day that I was never going to play another note of music that I didn't believe in. And that's when I began working on songs that would eventually become Rage Against the Machine songs, and songs that would eventually become this record right here. I want to talk about this album.

This is your first solo rock album with your name on it. That's correct. Yeah, I've made folk albums. I've made collaborative records, but this really is like, it's the 22nd record of my career, but it's like the first solo rock record. And I wanted to do something that had embraced the best of what I do, from the big, huge Morellian riffs to the crazy R2D2 or Barnyard Animal Guitar Noises. You know, it's just like the folk side and sort of the source.

Springsteen, Dylan stuff that I love very much too. But my muse on this record has really been my 15-year-old son, Roman, who's a very, you know, is kind of a prodigy of a guitar player, and he co-wrote five of the songs on the record. And, you know, it's... At 15 years old. I mean, we've been touring together for the last three years. He's played with me in front of over two million people

over the course of the last three summers. And, you know, it's two things. Two things I'll say. One is that I just listen at his bedroom door, and I poach his best riffs, and I put him on my record right here. And then if we have like a band meaning and we have like disagreements, I just send him to his room.

Perfect. Excellent dad too. Excellent. I feel like you're the kind of dad who's like, son, you better turn that music up. And fucking rock out. That was surprising. Something as you catch yourself saying some of the parental tropes

and I try to like. Not you. Not you. What was, is it true that you tricked him into learning the guitar? I did. I did. Well, your kids never want to, you know,

do what you do for a living. But he was a fan of Led Zeppelin. And so during the pandemic, there was a lot of time, you know, on Zoom school and, you know, playing Fortnite with his friends was very, very boring. So one day I said to him, give me five minutes and I'll teach you the first three notes of stairway to heaven, right? I could probably teach any of you. Give me five minutes.

We got it. We have five minutes. Everyone get out your guitars. My lessons have gotten more expensive. But he said, Comedy Central Cannot. He said, he said, I'll give you four. minutes. I thought, you know, fine. So I told him the first three notes, and you can,

that was doable. The next day I said, give me four more minutes. So we learned the first six notes of Starry to Heaven. And then the third day, he said, Dad, can we learn the next bit? And so that's when I hooked him. And from that day to this, he's been playing out. He's already put in his 10,000 hours and it shows. Oh, you must be so proud of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's fantastic. The album is so fantastic. When you were writing this and playing on this, did you envision a particular audience that you were writing for? Well, I mean, I've always sort of gone to the beat in my own dorm, but I wanted to make

like the heaviest record that I've made since the first rage against the machine record. But also, this is a record that it's like, it's rebellion as self-care, you know, in these troubled times. And it's also music as resistance in a time. I mean, first of all, every act of art now is an act of resistance. You know, every,

every truth-spoken, you know, every truth-spoken is a glimmer of light in the gathering darkness, and every riff rocked, can serve as a bulwark to the against the rising tide of authoritarianism. That's what this record is. I want to talk about power to the people.

Sure. This you founded, curated this incredible event October 3rd. Is that right? Yeah. Just outside of DC. You, foo fighters, Dave Matthews Band, Springsteen. Talk about this event. Cyprus, Public Enemy, Joan Baez.

You know, it's like Jack Black and his band of little kids we call Jack Sass. we call Jack Sabbath Romans in that band too. So, yeah, no one wants to go on after them. Everybody's fighting to not follow them on the bill, right? But yeah, so the idea, it's a festival, it's not just hyperbole or promo. It's a festival of peace, love, justice, and music. In a time where war is being celebrated, this is a festival of peace. In a time where, like, hatred and division are the norm.

This is a festival of love. In a time where injustice we see meet it out every day at home and abroad. this is a festival that celebrates justice. And in a world of a lot of shitty music, we're going to have nothing but awesome jams. Hell yeah. I think at this point, you are just as known for your political activism as you are as a brilliant artist.

At what point did you realize that those two things could intersect? Yeah, well, that's a good question, because I've had the same kind of political North Star since I was 16, 17 years old, and then what got in the way of it was my finding, having the calling to play electric guitar. I did not choose that. It chose me.

And sort of being stuck with that, had to throughout my entire career, you know, from my high school band to today, have tried to to find a way to weave my convictions into my vocation. For me, the North Star of that was artists, whether it was from the clash to Public Enemy, to Bruce Springsteen, to Woody Guthrie, who had found a way in their own authentic voice to say what they have to say while making compelling music. And that's the one thing about that I've, you know, in playing the Power of the people concert and every night at my own shows is you try to create a little bit of the world that you'd like to one day see on that night.

A world of unity, a world of celebrating resistance, a world of having a great time while rocking out despite the fact that the world has absolutely gone to hell. And then the courage you feel in that concert hall hopefully becomes contagious and people take it beyond the concert hall. Yes. And someone in your household that must have been a big inspiration

when it comes to activism, your mom, Mary. Sure, sure. My mom, Mary Morello, who recently passed away at 102 years old. was the most radical and the most popular member of the Morello family by a wide by a wide margin she lived a very humble yet purposeful and powerful life you know from the 1930s where she fed hobos on the back porch during the Great Depression to raising war bonds to stop the Nazis in World War II to opposing Jim Crow laws in the 50s to supporting anti-colonial movements in Africa in the 60s she helped you know hundreds of people get their

GED at the Salvation Army and marched against wars for oil, et cetera, et cetera. For her 100th birthday, she had two wishes. One was to feed the hungry at the Midnight Mission in downtown L.A., and two, was to walk the picket line for striking hotel workers in Beverly Hills, which she did in her wheelchair. And her life was one that, you know, was... But the most radical and the most, the craziest, most dangerous thing she ever did

was allow my punk rock band in high school to practice in the basement. And without that, we would not be here today. That is badass. Well, listen, you, you, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, you've sold over 30 million records. You're trying to stop fascism. Is there anything? All in a day's work. All in a day's work.

Is there anything that you would still really love to do that you haven't done yet? Yeah, I mean, I look at this way. Like every show, the next show, I anticipate, I'm going to do everything I can to make it the best show I ever played. The next record I make, the best record I ever made. The next guitar solo, the one that's going to blow. your mind the most. I think that I'm at the beginning of my career and I've never been sort of more fired up at a time where, you know, hopefully we're all fired up because no one's coming to save us but us. History is not something that happens. History is something that we make. And it's now and

it's now. Thank you for your work. Thank you for all that you do. What does a sunny getaway with Air Canada sound like? Sunny Jamaica moves to its own rhythm. Rio comes alive long after the sun goes down. Philippines slows everything down. And just when you think you've heard it all, there's sunny Lima. However you imagine your sunny escape, Air Canada can take you there.

Book hot fairs and vacation packages today. Nice travels. This episode is brought to you by animals. How far would you go when someone threatens everyone you love? Who can you trust? From Academy Award winner Ben Affleck. Animals stars Affleck, Carrie Washington, Gillian Anderson, and Stephen Young. When a Los Angeles mayoral candidate's son is kidnapped, he and his wife are pulled into a web of deception, forced to make choices that could tear their world apart.

Watch Animals only on Netflix on October 9th. Rated R. Host of the Five on Fox News, co-host of the Raging Moderates podcast, an author of I Disagree, Winning Arguments Without Losing Friends. Please welcome Jessica Tarla! It's more people in the studio and a very nice, lovely welcome, though it's actually physically cold in here. It is a little chilly. They don't tell you that. Well, we keep everyone awake.

You know, we don't want him falling asleep like Brian Kilmead. Radio with him just minutes after the nap, and he was wide awake. So I think that just, you know, dips in and out. The Melania doc put him to sleep a little bit. It was, you know. November is the time. Yes. So I'm excited about that.

We all wake up before November. You are the only liberal voice on the five. Now, did you tell your co-hosts that you were coming on the show? Do you need a fake alibi? I think if I did need one, it's over now as I stare directly into the camera. No, I told them when they were so excited. They were? Yeah.

Those are normal people. You're saying they like me? I would go that far. I would go that far. Interest. All right. Yeah, that's good to know. So you, I truly think you have the hardest job in television.

You go toe to toe with four other co-hosts who are disagreeing with you at all times. And you come armed with something very foreign to them over there called facts. You come with all the facts and you drop them. You have every stat, every data point ready to go at any given moment. How do you do that? How are you that prepared all the time? It's a lot of work, honestly, but it's not just, you know how it is when you're talking about various degrees of the same story. You're just updating day to day, right? Like you have your

treasure trove of information about whatever the subject might be, and then you're updating for the day's advance. So there's a reservoir of information, but there's a lot of prep that goes into it. I have one of the most screwy algorithms I think of any person, because I have the left-wing side, I have the right wing side that I want to make sure I'm taking it all in. And then whatever else Elon has cooking for me. Right. Always something. I have, I guess, held my gaze too long on Sidney a lot. So I also have like porn. Haven't we all? I mean, she looks amazing. Listen, if I had a body like hers, I would never wear clothes. Never wear them. Just wear footballs. Oh, of course. Yes. Maybe I drop one. Or two.

Just when you feel like it. So I have, you know, what's going on on the left, the right, and the porn. You, I'm, I'm, you are also incredibly well prepared, well educated. You have a PhD in political science from the London School of Economics. You are a Democratic pollster, researcher, and now you sit next to Jesse Waters. Can I ask you a question about him? Is he as charismatic as he doesn't? seem on television.

Ha, ha, ha. I'm sure that you have heard this before. No, I have, no, I have not. No one has told me I would enjoy Jesse Waters. You would have fun hanging with him. You wouldn't enjoy the politics part of it. No, I would not. But you watch his interview with Abdul El-Said.

Yeah. He has a sense of humor about it, and I think it gets to a fundamental... You know what, Jessica? I disagree. I hope that you get better at it because you've read my book. But it gets at the...

fundamental reality of politics for the two sides, which is they just don't take it as seriously as we do. And there are some bad things about it when you're talking about something enormously serious about immigration policy and they can kind of wave off, you know, a couple of Americans ended up dead in Minneapolis or, you know, what's going on with immigrants who have been here and just contributed to the community for 30 some odd years and they're getting, you know, picked up at Home Depot. But then it also, in a lot of ways, makes it easier to talk to them about politics than some folks think. And you can form relationships with them that are textured and layered. And it makes for, you know, good TV some days for sure.

But the possibility of opening up minds to a different perspective, which is what I'm trying to do with my work. And, well, let me ask you about that. Do you set out, how do you see your role at Fox News? Do you set out to change minds, to open minds? Changing minds would be fantastic, but it's really hard. And in doing research for the book, I started looking at the social science behind how we actually hear and process information that flies in the face of long-held beliefs. And it's literally painful. You know, when you're talking to someone who is so.

entrenched in their beliefs and you think, are you okay? Yeah. Like, are you alive in there? Yes. Like what is happening? And their threat reflexes are going off, their pain sensors are going off. And that has made me feel a lot more empathy towards folks that are engaging in these conversations and having that understanding has reframed how I think about the job.

So opening someone's mind to the idea that there's an alternative point of view worth considering. And I'm playing the long game, right? I'm in a long-term relationship with my co-hosts. I've been doing it four and a half years, but also with the viewers. And there are millions of people on the other side of the television, and I hear from them regularly. And it's frankly lovely.

I mean, some of it isn't. There's a petition to get me fired, which no such luck. Actually, there are definitely multiple. And then the weird stuff about my feet. That these messages, they always start with, you know, I don't agree with your politics. Yeah. Fine.

But I really liked what you said, or this made me think, or could you say more? Like if I've been interrupted, which has been known to happen, there will sometimes be threads on Twitter that just say, I'd really love to read that article that you were talking about. Could you send it to me? And Jesse hears from people saying interrupt her less.

It's been his New Year's resolution for four years, actually, to interrupt me less. Yeah, failed every year. Let's hold him to do that. But maybe the fifth year. I think they say five times of charm. Okay, 2027, we're going to do it. Has anyone, you write in your book about a woman who came up to you

and apologized for writing something negative about you on message board or something like that. Have you had people come up to you and say you actually changed my mind about something or you made me think about something differently? Definitely. I mean, this woman, it stuck out, because she also, which was absurd, thought that I would have noticed that she'd been calling me the C word online for years. I was like, that's just a normal stream that's coming in here.

But it was an incredibly moving conversation, and she had had cancer, and it had reframed how she saw the world, and she wanted me to know that she knew that I was a good person and that we actually believed in the same core things. And I, you know, walking around the RNC, for instance, you, I mean, you were there. We were doing different kinds of things there. But running into people like that, who would say, you know, I want my daughter to be like you or my granddaughter, which is always

such a wonderful compliment, because these families are complicated and they are layered. And I think that's setting a good example for someone who shows up with the facts and the data prepared for the conversation, but also with the humanity that we do want to be infused back into our lives, is something that they really connect with. Yes. Speaking of people coming up and saying they want their daughters to be like you, this was one of my favorite quotes from your book. You said, whether you agree with what I'm saying or not, I want you to see a woman who argues without being afraid. I think that's so powerful. And you talk a lot in your book about, I mean, just let's talk about the fact that you are a woman

on television, which automatically opens up a certain amount of criticism. And then you're going toe to toe in disagreement with four of your co-stars who, for the most part, represent the views of the viewers. How do you process and navigate that criticism? You have a whole chapter in your book about receiving criticism. How do you navigate that? Yeah, it's definitely been one of the most difficult processes in doing this job. I was not destined or wanting to go on television.

I said in my background is in research, worked as a pollster, a behind-the-scenes type person. And then I started doing commentary, and you know what comes with it. Like, I'm actually sitting here freaking out about whether I'm sucking in properly. And, like, my husband's back there monitoring. Not, he doesn't think I look fat of her. But you know what I mean? It's like, those are the things that you're thinking. No, I, yeah.

I look great. I'm wearing black intentionally. I'm doing kegles right now. You never know who's watching at home. No. This is high death. After two births, I actually should be doing kegles too. So now I'm sucking in and doing kegles.

Okay, here we go. Just in case you all wanted to know that. You do them too. You all do them too. But the criticism, it really stings. And I wanted to lead the book. It's my first chapter focusing on most of the criticism that I've gotten from President Trump and how I thought about it in the moment and then how over time I learned to cope with it and deal with it and eventually use it to make me feel stronger.

But, you know, Donald Trump, who is the ultimate TV critic, he loves the five. We have a lot of viewers. He's one of our important viewers. And he has picked on me. All his information. It's the only thing he watches. Well, but he also hears me, which aggravates him. And then what he does, which I think is so important, especially for women to understand,

is he takes a load of information that he runs counter to his beliefs, if I put it gently, but that it's against the narrative that he wants to put out there because he wants to say all the polls are wrong and we're winning the war in Iran and Melania's documentary is actually coming out in October

you fuel. And so he says Jessica Tarlev has an unendurable voice and a jittery presentation which are two things that I've been self-conscious about because I was not destined to be on TV I know it's not melodious

the sound of my voice and that Jessica I disagree You are really. Thank you. This has been so good for my ego already. But in sitting with it and letting myself honestly cry, which I did, and my husband not knowing what to do, he was like, what kind of tears are these, you know. But getting to a place where I can understand that if someone is criticizing you on style, you're winning on substance.

And that you can take that strength, that you can take that you can take. from that, not just if President Trump's going after you, but in any of your lives, and especially for women, you know what it's like in the workplace, right? You're giving a presentation, and suddenly something comes in about the way your voice is hitting, or it's not loud enough, or like, you're a mom, or not enough of a mom, or you take, you know, your soft skills are great, but maybe you've had more hard skill, and oh, no, no, we want this or that. And it pulls you in all of these different directions. And so finding these core philosophies that I can anchor the way that I navigate my job has been so helpful.

Like, if we're having a discussion about politics on the show, not you and me. Right. And I'm making a point about our munitions stockpile, something very sexy, right? That is... I'm into it. Just depleted down to the bare boats. Oh, my God. How would we protect Taiwan?

So I'm talking about munitions, and then someone says, Jessica, what is a woman? And you think, oh, I nailed it, right? Like, I won. And that's an internal win. So I've gotten good at loving the inside W's. But you know also that the people on the other side of the screen,

maybe not all of them, but a lot of them saw that that conversation that was supposed to be substantive about what's going on vis-a-vis the war in Iran devolved into some weird Marshall Blackburnism from a few years ago, meant to bring it back to a cultural, war issue that only affects two people. So it's a good thing, honestly. Do they, can I ask you, do your colleagues believe in what they say? Yes. They really do. It's not performative.

It is not like I am playing into this person. It is not playing a role. And I know that that upsets people. And we hear all these stories about, you know, all of the Republicans on Capitol Hill behind the scenes, you know, they're saying, well, Trump is just awful. They believe in the project. And Republicans are much better at them as much better than Democrats at putting their heads down and also saying this is part of the larger puzzle. That is right. Like you don't get Roe v. Wade overturned 50 years later unless you believe and you can stick with it. And looping back to what I said up front about how seriously they take politics, there are things where they can say, okay, that wasn't great. But in general, we need to make sure that

were deporting a bunch of the people who are here illegally. And they can make concessions and not take it as seriously as we do in pursuit of the larger agenda, which they believe in. So, yeah, they believe it. TV, obviously, there's, you know, for emphasis. Of course. Of course. But, yeah, I don't want to let you down. But are there times that you have changed your colleague's mind about something? Definitely opened their minds. In terms of we talk a lot, you know, the commercial breaks are always a lot of fun, honestly. And I feel like it's up to me how serious it is. Like if we had a very intense exchange, you know, do I want to carry it over into the commercial break?

Or is it better to talk about dogs and babies and whatever else you would talk about with colleagues? But, you know, in the break, I'll talk about one example with Jesse. I'm talking a lot about John Ossoff, which I feel like everyone on the left. and you know, his Sunday speeches with like the beautiful camera work and the glow up and all the things. And I was saying how he does all of this constituency work. And that's how he's getting these endorsements from Republican mayors that everybody knows you can actually get John Ossoff on the phone, not just connect with his office. And then it just seeped into Jesse's commentary where he was like, well, yeah, no, I know why John Ossoff is up 10. he does all this constituency work.

So is he going to be voting for John Ossoff? I doubt it. But it got in. That's a bit of a win. You're just packing away at it. Packing away. Planning those Osaf seats. Okay, you bring up Assov.

Who are exciting Democrats right now, thinking about the next presidential election? Who is exciting you? And what do you think that the Democratic Party needs to hear right now from the right candidate? Well, everyone's just so angry. Yeah. And that's part of why we have a podcast called Raging Moderates, because moderate is not sexy to anyone. But if you are raging, it can be better. And that's capturing the mood.

And that's what John Ossoff is and Alyssa Slokkin and Josh Shapiro, these people who would typically, you know, occupy this moderate lane. But they understand how dire the moment is and that people are talking about what they see to be human rights issues. that if you don't have access to good quality health care, what do you have if you can't afford a home? And I've been pretty tough on the party about not delivering an agenda that people can sink their teeth into. You know how Republicans, they always have the great bumper sticker policy. Like, MAGA, it's annoying and it's recycled, but it makes sense to people.

No tax on tips. It's a lie the way they did it. Like hedge funders and corporate lawyers also get to use that. But it makes sense to people. have no bumper stickers. You know, it's like, you know, a smart set of reforms that will ensure that you have better quality health care and deliver a quality for all.

Like, put it on the bumper sticker. So I mean, I've been throwing around 10 million. That seems like a lot of housing. But if you told people, we're going to build 10 million affordable housing units. Yes. That might sound good to them. Yes, that would resonate.

If you're going to, for every new regulation, you're going to cut 10. Take it. It was Trump's first term. steal it right just steal it and say it yeah I'm begging you so I've been thinking along those lines you know John Ossoff is obviously exciting people yes I think all of the governors have been doing a really good job especially trying to be a backstop against the administration you know there's the Newsome wing of it

Josh Piro who I mentioned I don't think that they're going to be household names in the same way until we get through the midterms right if the midterms is very kind to Democrats and it certainly looks that way. Is that what you're feeling right now? I'm so nervous to feel it. Yeah. You know? Like I've been there before and I had my heart broken.

So, yeah. And I hope there's not going to be some massive polling error. But when you look at the fact that we're like spending money in Kansas and Nebraska, it's like, oh, okay, what's happening here? And I've been on the ground with candidates like James Talariko in Texas. It does feel like something. something is happening. And the sad part about it is that something is happening because people's lives are so

tough right now. Yeah. That they're having to consider somebody or a set of policies or a type of governance that flies in the face of the way that they've lived their whole lives, right? And maybe it's passed down through generations. But it's really tough out there. And Republicans for some reason, well, that's some reason is Donald Trump. Trump. Actually, I know what the reason is.

Yeah. We can say it. We can say it. Donald Trump is bad. And he that he rules the party doesn't allow for them to speak to people's needs. And that's what the point of government is. And I talk about that a lot in the book, and it was a lesson that came from my dad, where he always told me the job of an elected official is to alleviate as much anxiety as

possible for the average American. And right now, the government is just making you more anxious. And they're making your life harder. Speaking the truth, you're speaking the truth. And I loved the story in your book about your glasses. Would you tell everyone about the story behind your frames that you wear the famous frames? So first of all, there's a real prescription in them.

I get that a lot. And people are like, are those, you know, one of those liberal glasses things, or you just sit there? I legitimately can't see that wall without them. And they were my father's, and he was actually wearing them when he passed away, and he died five years ago from a 9-11 cancer, which I know if your Daily Show fans, you hear a lot about 9-11 from John and how expansive the victim community is, and just how many people are continuing to pass away from the after effects of this.

I loved the seventh bell this year that they added that. which felt like a real olive branch or bonding moment, I guess, for this wider community. But, you know, after someone dies, not in a gross way, everyone's like, okay, who gets what? You know? And I was like, I really want these glasses. And it helps me stay connected to him and also thinking about his framing of politics. what I was just talking about with the anxiety, and that that's why you send people to Washington

or why you pick a mayor or a city council member who you feel like gets it, that their purpose in life is to make your life easier so that you can go out and you can fly and you can succeed. And it's a lot of the book focuses on the importance of framing and how you can use data to frame your argument and literally having his frames, I feel like keeps me focused on what I believe in

and what my values are, especially if you're going up against people who have a very different way of looking at the world. So it's just a great way to stay connected and also on message because time is so finite, not just in the like we're all technically dying as we sit here together, but when you're on TV, you know what it's like.

You know, the red light's going to go off and it's going to be over. And you had 30, 60, 90 seconds to make a case that could impact the lives of tens of millions of people. That's right. And the way that the ecosystem works, if you can, if there's a clip of you representing a vulnerable community or a perspective that an audience hasn't heard before, that can live in tens of millions of people's feeds, right? And that's what I'm playing for. That's why you do this and that's why you show up in uncomfortable places. And it's also part of signaling to people who believe in a different politics than me that I don't think any less of them.

I think that they're wrong about a lot of things. But I can tell you that politely. And I can find a way to also build connective tissue with people who feel differently than me that doesn't invalidate their perspectives, it just elevates mine to one worth considering. And I think that's the whole game in modern political communication right now. And you see elected officials taking on that challenge, you know, how many more Democrats are showing up in uncomfortable places. So, yeah, that's...

It's... Your book couldn't come at a more perfect time. We have midterms coming up. Thanksgiving is coming up. A lot of people will be sitting at the Thanksgiving table with relatives who have different ideas in their own. If you could leave our viewers with one piece of advice from your book, one most helpful piece of advice, what would you say? That's a hard one. And I will say, I don't even know if I told you this, but my alternate title was surviving Thanksgiving.

Which would have been good. We would have ever had November, the documentary and my book would have had to come out. Time. Maybe November. Maybe not. Maybe in the near future. Maybe you'll never see my book. But the appendix is 10 tips for your table. Because I wanted, I know that there are some people that are going to come to this for the Cliff's Notes. Like, I'm doing an hour and this A-hole is going to be talking to me about immigration or who doesn't want to talk about abortion over Thanksgiving dinner, right? It's in there if you need it. Dual answer. So one of the best pieces of advice in the book that I think we could all use is to think in averages and not in anecdotes and to get out of our feelings more because feelings are very easily dismissed.

And that doesn't make them invalid. It's just not that strategic to rely on that. Ben Shapiro with the facts don't care about your feelings. He was right. Right. We saw that everyone, the access Hollywood tape. And, you know, Mike Pence was like, still good with this. you know, we're going to move on.

So think about those averages versus the anecdotes. But the kind of meta principle that I think is most important from the book is to lead with your humanity and to listen more than you talk. And when you open those doors, a lot is possible and you'll get another crack at it. You know how it feels sometimes when you're talking about tense issues that like a stopwatch is on? And if I don't get this out, and I used to do that, I would go all over the place. and Dana Perino, one of my co-hosts, is an amazing friend and mentor pulled me aside

and said, you're gonna break. It is too much pressure. Like the whole Democratic Party is not sitting on your shoulders. You'll be back tomorrow. And you will all be back tomorrow. There will be another opportunity if those doors are open and if people sense that you respect them.

You can disagree with them, but that you don't think they're bad people. Right. Right. Excellent advice. I am... Thank you. Congratulations on all of it.

And I am so grateful that the Fox viewers have your voice. Thank you for doing what you're doing. You're doing God's work out there. Thank you for being here. In Toronto, every arrival is a statement and nothing says it better than this.

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Philippines slows everything down. And just when you think you've heard it all, there's Sunny Lima. However you imagine your sunny escape, Air Canada can take you there. Book hot fairs and vacation packages today. Nice travels. The actor who stars in the new film, Primetime.

Please welcome Mary! I'm so happy to be here. I'm a huge fan of your work. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so nervous that I have not one but two safe words. Yes, yes. You do. Yes.

Should we share what they are? Or should it be a surprise? I think it should be a surprise. Okay. If they come out, I think that you'll understand what's happening. Yes. Yeah. Hopefully they don't come out.

I know. It might be our secret. It might be our little secret that we'll keep forever. You are a three-time Emmy winner. Yeah. Three of many incredible performances of yours. Anytime you turn up in something, I know it's going to be an incredible project. Nurse Jackie, Severance, Marriage,

story godless i could go on and but this is your first time doing late night yes this is so new to me i really i really squeaked by there for a while you did but it's not my first time in the building the reason i keep looking over there is that i was an audience member like 20 yes and i got tickets um right at the beginning of mr stewart's tenure and i sat right there i think you can see me looking at you and it was my first yes yes Totally. And it was my first lesson in don't tell the truth in show business because it can bring a vibe down.

Oh no. What truth did you, did John interact with him? Yes. He came out and he was, you know, before the show starts, like there's like a hey, good vibes, let's get rapport going. And I don't remember how, but me and him started talking and he asked how I was doing and I was like, I mean, I don't know, I'm in college, but I'm not sure if I chose the right one. And I'm like, I don't know what to do about, like I was honest.

First mistake. And like the room really came down. I'm going to be honest, he was a little off for the segment. We went to commercial. It was quiet. And he just said, I don't know. I'm kind of bummed out. I've been thinking about that college girl.

And the lesson is emotional honesty and show business. Not always. Not always. Not always. This is, I will say two things. One, John just told someone through the studio who just told me that he's very jealous that I get to interview right now because he's a big fan of yours. Because he doesn't remember. So all is forgiven.

That I cost him like maybe two and a half laughs. Yeah. All is forgiven. And I would argue that is what makes you the most incredible actor is your honesty. So please don't ever change it. It's true. It's true. And it's also what I love about.

your first Emmy acceptance speech winning for Nurse Jackie. It is, if you haven't seen it, it is the greatest Emmy acceptance speech of all time, and I think we have a clip. Can we play the clip? Thanks so much. Thank you so much.

I gotta go, bye. You know what, I didn't have, I did not have banana minestrone. Banana minestrone is our safe work. That is the safe word. That is the safe word. But I'm very lucky that, like, yeah, it's true. That was an instance of me being quite emotionally honest, and it was okay.

It was okay. It was perfect. It was perfect. It was so perfect and so you. You got to work with the great Edie Falco on Nurse Jackie. What was she like? Love of my acting life. Right?

Yeah. Was she a mentor to you? Yeah, she was. And I still, I mean, I love her. I still can't believe I got to learn from her for seven seasons. seven seasons and I don't, I mean, I always knew how important she was to me, but something happened last year where I really realized I was, you know, on a set and I was supposed to kind of get to a place emotionally and I was like, ah, I didn't really get there. And so you

get kind of walk away kicking yourself and I texted her and, you know, I am very lucky that Edie Falco texts me right back, you know, and she gave me like the perfect comforting words, you know, happens to everyone. Happens to all guys. That's like her thing. Exactly. I was like, you know, Yeah, I know. Comforting. Yeah. Have heard them, have said them. And I was like, you know, hobnobbing with the actor and the director afterwards. And I was like, yeah, you know, just didn't get there.

What are you going to do? You win some, you lose some. And the actor was, I said, but I'm okay because I texted Edy. And he said, why did you text Edy? And the director, unprompted goes, because she's Ety Fonco. Because she's Edy Fico and she's my acting mom. Oh, that's so lovely. that she is to me. And now you get to pass on that wisdom to other young actors.

You get to work with. It's kind of nice about getting older in this business. Like she taught me, no, it's true. Like she taught me how to shepherd someone and how to protect them even if they don't know that that's what you're doing. Right, right. I have to talk about this movie, prime time.

It's about Chris Hansen and his show To Catch a Predator. Yes. So I guess my first question to you is, Merritt, what did you think was going to happen tonight? I know. How old did you think I was? So creepy. I don't like being on the other side of that question.

It's super creepy. And Pattinson does a great job. Yes, he does. Great job with that voice. The performances are incredible. It's a deeply haunting movie. It explores not just the predator, the actual suspect, being caught, but kind of predatory behavior behind the scenes.

It's true. The Chris Hanson character. You play a producer who has some moral complexity. Yeah, certainly moral complexity. To say the least. Yeah, I think it's a group of people who think that they are hunting the monsters. And I think they find by the end of the film that the monsters within themselves are also revealed.

Yes. Did you, so you play essentially the showrunner of the ship, the main, producer who's kind of this unsung hero of the whole production. He, you at times your character feels invisible and you're kind of waiting for... You served, taken for granted, yes. Yeah, yeah, and she's the whole reason that it's able to carry on. Yeah. What was it?

How do you prepare for a role like that? Do you, did you actually do research and kind of shadow other producers? Did you interview people? I did a lot of different kinds of research, but the thing that I found most helpful besides just working with the material was speaking to two long-time TV news producers who were working the show takes place or the film takes place 20 years ago and they were working at a very high level back then and continued to do so now and they kind of talked to me about the weird work life merging that happens when when you're responsible for getting a show made

making sure the trains run on time, but also host finagling, which in this moment, I am I am sure no one has ever had to finagle a lady like this. Oh, no. Yeah. Ask around. But tougher hosts. Tougher hosts might need a shoulder to cry on. They may need a mother, a therapist, a girlfriend, a mommy, a pharmacist, whatever.

You know what I mean? And so in addition to like getting a show made, her job, is to manipulate the on-screen talent. Right. Yeah. And it also kind of forces the viewer to get, like I very much remember that show being on the air. It was so much a part of our culture.

And it makes you ask yourself, like even as an audience member watching that show, was that predatory? Were we participating in that kind of? I know. I know. Everyone asks me. First of all, like, I'm old enough that I saw it when it was first on the air. And I'm old enough to not realize that I was making

period piece. Like I thought it just took place ago. We didn't know that it took place like in another time. But yeah, I watched that show when it was on the air and it's true. Like I wonder if younger people who don't know that that show exists are going to hear about it and think that it is shocking and kind of like, oh my God, how could that exist? Or if they've become so used to seeing anything and everything online that to them, well, of course, you can have a hidden camera show where you have people come looking for, you know, looking to prey on children and you have a gotcha moment. Right. I don't know if it'll feel tame almost to today's audience.

It was at a different time before everyone had phones in their pockets and cameras. Yeah, cameras in the internet in your pocket and yeah, I mean, I think part of, but it's true. Like I watched the show and now I look back and I'm like, oh God, what was I a part of? Why did I think that was okay? What was I looking for? Because it, you know, I was, I, You know, I watched it. The movie, in part, is about what happens when news, entertainment, and law enforcement get in the same room, and the wrong entity starts to call the shots. The wrong head of the dragon starts to take over.

And what do you think at that time, 20 years ago, got people so interested. Was it the salacious nature of the crime happening? Was it the justice that was being served? Was it? You mean, I'm sure that the show likely sold itself on the idea of justice. I can't imagine that was the prime concern. I'm scared Chris Hanson's going to come after me. I don't think he watches this show.

Okay. Wrong network. But if we see him lurking around the building, you know, Banana Ministroni. Well, I think it also brings up an interesting idea of like, and the idea of entertainment versus justice. And this particular moment in time, why do you think that this film is so resonant right now? I think that's a very fair question,

but I think it's kind of a question that more than anything else I've ever been a part of, I need other people to answer. Like, I'm still too inside it. And the writer-director is also, he is a documentary film background. So there was a lot of, there was a lot of, like, mobility,

isn't the wrong word on set? There were a lot of shifts and changes, and I think I'm still learning what the film is. And talking to other people is kind of like having, the audience ends up holding a mirror and telling you what it is that you just made. And more than anything else I've been a part of,

that's the way I feel on this one. I need other people to tell us what we made, which is not so unrelated to that show. Right. Right. Right. I do. When I left the movie, I thought, I have to go back and watch that again because there's

so much to process. And it's such a visual, it's a visceral experience. It's very voyeuristic. It's kind of, it kind of makes you want to go jump in the shower afterwards. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Clean yourself off. I know.

Full throttle, Icky. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go see it. Go see it. Are we selling it? It's just actually.

Your performance is incredible in it. Robert Patton says performance is incredible. Phoebe Bridgers was in it. I know. I know. I thought to like, you know, on the down, were you a fan? Yes. Yeah.

Yes. I know. And I got to like hang out with her for a couple of weeks because she had to be there because she was being paid. Yes. She couldn't leave the room. I know. She's great in it.

She's a great actor. She's so good. I know. She is so, so good. And I also liked that she's. seemed to confirm, you know, she was like, yeah, I was comparing what my job, the traveling circus of a set, of a film set in particular, the like band of Mary Pranksters, you go from town to town and have this kind of little informal family that makes something together. You know, I was,

I was comparing that to what she does as a musician when she tours, and she was like, well, when I'm on tour, I'm playing like the same album over and over, and the place is new, but I'm going with my band. So like, I'm traveling with my people. And every time you go to work, it's a whole new band of Mary Pranksters, and you're doing different material every day. And it felt good to have Phoebe Bridgers be like, your job is hard. Yes. What is?

And you make it look so easy. How, what do you enjoy most? Do you like being able to go onto a film set and put everything into this role and this story and then walk away and move on to something entirely new? Or do you like having a TV show where you can play a character? for an extended period of time. I think that I'm sure I'm not the first actor you've heard say, like I like to do,

the next thing that I do was always, you hope, different than the thing you just did. It's like you need to let a certain muscle rest for a while and build up a new one. But it's been a long time since I've been a part of series television in a legitimate, committed way. And I've started to kind of miss what it's like to be written for and what it's like to spend

in a character's shoes and really get a sense of ownership and a sense of knowing who that person is. Being written for is a wonderful thing. And so when series television, yeah, when series television is going well, it's a gift. It's like every script is a gift for you. And I miss that. A gift from writers. Yes. Yeah. It truly is. I know. Do you hear that, writers? Is there anything that you're dying to do next, any particular role that you would love to play or genre that you want to dip your toe into? The boring answer is Shakespeare. Really? Yeah, weirdly.

But also, I miss comedy, especially after this. I miss comedy. Oh, come back to comedy. I know. I would love to watch you in a comedy. That's very nice. Your ears. Well, you've said it, so now it's going to happen. You put it out into the universe. You will have 10,000. In the words of a great actress, I know.

Thanks so much. I got to go by. It would be wonderful to have me on the night. I adore you. Congratulations. Explore more shows from the Daily Show podcast universe by searching The Daily Show, wherever you get your podcasts. Watch the Daily Show weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central, and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount Plus.

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