The Daily Show: Ears Edition - Timothy Snyder - A Guide to Maintaining Democracy in "On Tyranny"

Episode Date: January 8, 2022

"On Tyranny" author Timothy Snyder explains how Americans can uphold democratic values. Originally aired May 2017. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. Timothy Snyder. You're today. You have to the show. So glad to be here. You have written a book about tyranny. Now.

I don't understand why. Why would you do this now? I can't think of one good reason. Yeah, the reason is everything that we know about history. And the reason is the best American tradition, which is that when you're in a moment of peril like this one, you look around for how other people have failed, and you learn from them. So that's what the framers our constitution did.

But now we have 200 more years of failed democracy and 200 years of smart people we can learn from. The book tries to get that across in about 20 minutes. You know what I will say, what I enjoy about the book is, it's tiny, it's easy to get through, and it's super interesting. You've got a lot of history in this field, I mean, excuse the pun, but you've studied the rise of fascism in the 1930s. You know, you've published, I think, a dozen books or so.

If you were to look at the Trump administration, not to be hyperbolic, but what similarities would you see, or would you say you see between the rise of fascism in, you know, pre pre pre pre pre pre pre pre the rise the rise the rise the rise the rise the rise the rise the rise the rise the rise the rise the rise the rise the rise the rise the rise the rise the rise of fascism in, you know, pre-World War II Germany and in the US right now? Yeah, history is great because history is bracing. On the one hand, it's bracing because it tells us how bad things can get. Right. So we're in the second globalization now. The first globalization had the thrown. the first world war, the second world war, the Great Depression. Hitler, history is bracing because it tells us th. It h it h it h it h it h it has th. It has th. It has th. It has th. It has th. It has th. It has thiii. It has thi. It has thi. It has thi. It is thi. It is thi. It is thi. Hi. Hi. History is thi. History is thi. History is thi. History is thia history is is is is thi. History is thi. History is thi. History is history history history history history history history history history history history history history history history history history history. It is th. It is th. It is th. It is th. It is th. It has th. It has th. It has th. It has th. It has th. It has thi. It has thi. It has thi. It has thi. It has thi. It has thi. It has thi. It has thi. It has thi. It is great thiiiii. It is great is great is great thii. It has great thii. thi. thi. thi. thi. thithe Second World War, the Great Depression. On the other hand, Hitler is, history is bracing because it tells us what we can learn and

what we can do that there are alternatives. So how are we like the 1930s? Globalization is being challenged. That's similar. There are people coming from the far right and saying globalization has a face, maybe a Jewish face, maybe a dark face. maybe a dark face, that's also similar. Mr. Trump in particular in his rallies and his habits of speech is a bit like a fascist. There are things here we have to watch out for, but history also empowers. It helps us

to get out of these traps, but we have to look at it first. So if we're looking at history and we're looking at the core differences, what are the differences, Are the differences that Hitler knew when he was leaking information? Like, what would you say the core differences are in terms of what America is dealing with now versus any leader, not just Hitler in the past? So there's a reason why I don't use Mr. Trump's name in the book, which is that it's not really about Mr. Trump, it's really about us. History is there for us. It expands what we can see, it expands what we can learn. So although it is really important that Mr. Trump invites Russians to the Oble Office with digital equipment at their side and then spills national security secrets, right?

Yes. That's important. That is important. Yeah, right? So I'm agreeing with your opening. OK. But it may be even more important that the Germans and the Soviets and the other people of the 20th century who saw democracy collapse were just as smart as we are or maybe smarter. So it may be time for us to learn from them what we can do to defend democracy. That's the book. It's interesting that you say that because I mean like some of these these chapters are really fascinating in what they say like for instance a chapter 10 here is believe in truth and you write to abandon facts is to abandon freedom. If nothing is true then to abandon freedom.

If nothing is true thrown. the biggest wallet pays is to the the most blinding lights. That's a powerful statement to make. their their their their their their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is true. their. their is their is their is their is their is their. their. their. their. their. their. their. to to to to to to to to to to to to to tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. true. true. true. true. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. lights. That's a powerful statement to make. Why is post-truth so powerful? It goes back to your other question about fascism. So fascism says nothing's true, your daily life is not important. The facts that you think you understand are not important. All that matters is the myth of one nation that's together. The myth of the mystical connection with the leader. When we think it's thuth, we think it's something new, we think it's something that campuses, we think it's something irrelevant. Actually, what post-truth does is it paves the way for regime change.

If we don't have access to facts, we can't trust each other. Without trust, there's no law rip the heart out of a democracy directly, if you want to go right at it and kill it, what you do is you go after facts. And that's what modern authoritarians do. Step one, you lie yourself all the time. Step two, you say it's your opponents and the journalists who lie. Step three, everyone looks around and says, what is truth? There is no truth.

And then resistance resistance resistance resistance resistance resistance resistance resistance resistance resistance resistance resistance resistance resistance resistance resistance resistance resistance resistance resistance then the then the then the th th th th favorite thing about the book other than the steps that are in it and the stories you tell is that it's tiny, so you can keep it in your pockets and then when the tyranny is chasing you, you can be like, ah, what did he say again? Oh, you don't want as well. Ithis stuff. Thank you so much for being here. On Turity is available now. Timothy Smaid, everybody. The Daily Show with CoverNoa, Ears Edition. Watch the Daily Show weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central and the Comedy Central app.

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