The Daily Show: Ears Edition - Trump Calls to Terminate the Constitution | Tessie McMillan

Episode Date: December 6, 2022

Trump calls for certain parts of the Constitution to be terminated, the U.S. is out of the World Cup and New York Times columnist and University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill associate professor Tressie McMillan Cottom stops by.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. Coming to you from New York City, the only city in America. It's the Daily Show. Tonight, chatbots are talking. The History of Drag. And Tresi Macmillan Cotton. This is the Daily Show with Trevor Noah. Thank you so much for tuning it. Thank you for coming out in question. Thank you for being here. Thank you so much for being here. Take a seat everybody. We have got a great show for you tonight.

Donald Trump is now beefing with the Constitution. Dulsey Sloan gets into drag and artificial intelligence could replace us all or has it already? So let's do this people. Let's jump straight into today's headlines. All right, before we get into the big stories, let's catch up on a few other things going on in the world. Starting with the World Cup. On Saturday, the world's biggest sporting event kicked off the round of 16 with the Netherlands scoring yet another victory and the United States learning first-hand why they call it the knockout stages. And this was especially

humiliating for the US because the Dutch team plays in those little wooden shoes so but but don't be sad, don't be sad the good news for America is the next World Cup will be in the US. Yeah. Which means, which means all the players will be allowed to use guns. Yeah. Don't worry, they're worried. They can't use their hands to shoot them. Should be interesting. In international news, after months of protest over its strict hijab laws, Iran is reportedly considering abolishing its infamous morality police. Yeah.

That's right. And if that happened, it would be wild. Iran might defund the police before Milwaukee. Speaking of morality police, some news out of the U.S. Supreme Court. This morning, the Justice has heard arguments on whether a Colorado-based web designer can refuse to build websites for gay weddings, which she says violates her religious beliefs. And I'm sorry, but what is this web designer's process that making a wedding website violates her religious beliefs?

It's just like, okay, I'm adding your hotel block info? that making a wedding website violates her religious beliefs. What is just like, okay, I'm adding your hotel block info, time and date of ceremony, a hardcore video of the two of you re-e'eat each other, and done! Out of here, man. All right, let's move on to some of the biggest stories of the day, starting with Twitter. It's what Elon Musk bought for his midlife crisis instead of a Lamborghini. Over the weekend, Elon

released the so-called Twitter files, which many conservatives had hoped would prove that Twitter colluded with Democrats to censor news about Hunter Biden's laptop during the 2020 election. Instead, they mostly just showed the Biden campaign asking Twitter to take down nude photos of Hunter Biden. So, yeah, sorry everyone, if you want to see naked people, you've got to go to every other website on the internet, I guess. So, the Twitter files turned out to be a major letdown for conservatives. There was no proof of a conspiracy to help defeat Donald Trump, but you know who doesn't care about any of that? Donald Trump.

Former President Donald Trump's false claims about the 2020 election now have him calling for the Constitution to be terminated. With the revelation of massive and widespread fraud and deception in working closely with big tech companies. The DNC and the Democratic Party, do you throw the presidential election results of 2020 out and declare the rightful winner, or do you have a new election? A massive fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution.

Yeah, that's right. The Republican frontrunner for President of the United States wants to terminate the Constitution because Twitter wouldn't allow him to see Hunter Biden's dick. Yeah. He's like, I want to see the PPB, I want to see it. I want to see what I'm dealing with. If you want to see Hunter Biden's dick, just get a bag of cocaine like everyone else, Mr. President. Also, why is this still news? Can anyone tell me?

Why is it still even a headline? Donald Trump thinks this undermines the election? He thinks that about everything. Everything. However the math equation starts, the answer is always, the answer, the the, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, too, th, th, too, the the the the the the the, is the the the thi, is the the the the threatheuice, is the the the threath. thi, the the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the news. the news. the news. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi.o, is still still still still still still still still news. the. thean. thean. thean. thean. thean. thean. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. Doesn't matter where it is. Like a waiter could come up like, I'm sorry, sir, the kitchen says we've run out of the Mickey Mouse pancakes. This is the last straw. We need to redo the election. We do have the Donald Duck Waffles. It's too late. I'm storming the Capitol. I'll have those to go, please. And look, I get that Trump doesn't like to lose. true. And look I get that I that I that Trump I that Trump I that Trump I that Trump I that Trump that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that true true true true true true true true true true true true true true true true true true true true true true true true true true true true. true true. true true true. true true true true true. true true true true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. true. to lose. But my man, 2020 is over. You've got to move on. You know, Trump is like one of those guys who never stops trying to get back with his ex. Like he's texting her years later like, hey, you up? And she's like, yeah, I'm up with my kids from my marriage.

He's like, oh, still playing hard to get her. I like that. I like that. But honestly, though, what a start to the Trump 2024 campaign? First, he had dinner with Nazi lovers. Now he's calling to scrap the Constitution. What's next? Who is he going to give the Lincoln Memorial enormous boobs, and still the GOP's going to come out like, well, I personally would have gone with a tasteful bee cup, but I think President Trump's heart is in the right place. Ma.

But enough of Trump and his craziness. Let's calm things down with a news story out of Tampa, Florida. Where we finally found the onset of the quantum physics paradox, what happens when a police officer pulls over the chief of police? Tampa's top cop has been placed on administrative leave after she flashed her badge, apparently using her status as police chief to get out of a traffic stop. After the deputy proceeds to explain to them why they were being pulled over, which by the way was because they were driving a golf cart on a public road without the appropriate tags,

this happened. Is your camera on? It is. I'm the police chief in tamp. tapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapap. tapapap. tapapapapapap. tape. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. th. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. too. too. too. too. too. to to the the to the to the the the too. the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. t. t. the. the. the. the. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. to. to.'m the police chief in Tampa. Oh, how you doing? I'm doing good. Okay. I'm hoping that you'll just let us go to. Oh, okay, yeah. All right, folks.

Well, have a good night. Oh, all right. You ever need anything, call me? Okay. Serious. All right. Appreciate that video. First of all, first of all, I think it's crazy that she asks if the office's body cam is on before incriminating herself.

Right? Because what was she going to do if the body camera was off? Oh, it's not recording. Quick, dog whapping over the head, let's get out of here, just hit him. And secondly, I love how she does that thing, like if you notice it, she does that thing that white people do, where they act like it hurts them to pull rank over you. You see, I think where she's like, do you know, uh, it turns out I'm the, I'm the chief of police. Yeah, that's, I didn't the, I the, I the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm th. th. th. th. that, I, I, I, I'm, I'm, I, I'm, I'm, I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that, I'm, I'm, I'm, th. that, that, that, th. that, th. th. th. that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, th. th. th. the, that's... I didn't want to bring it up, but I am. White people love doing that shit. Yeah, they'll be at a hotel like, can I get a late check out from my room? Be like, I'm sorry, sir, we can't accommodate you. Ah, but I do own the hotel. Yeah, I'm

I'm Brad Radison. Yeah. Uh, that's what I love about black people. There's no pretending. You know, black people aren't pretending that it pains them to wield they power for you. I'll just tell you. I'm like, sorry, sir, we can't do a late checkout for you. Late checkout for me, bitch, I own this hotel. Shit, I check out when I won. You gonna tell De Quaan Radisson where he can check out of his own hotel? I tell you you can check out. Now after this video came out, the mayor of Tampa suspended this police chief and because of the pressure she was forced to resign. Which can I just say is the

biggest waste of a scandal of all time. This is what you use your part, you realize there are police chiefs who have stolen millions of dollars in drug money. Meanwhile, she's out here like, yeah, I pulled some strings and drove super slow on the highway. But enough about that. Let's move on to a story that had the internet buzzing all weekend. And it's about artificial intelligence, which by the way is not when you regurgitate an Atlantic article and act like you thought of it for yourself. No. For years, people have been wondering when we would see the next step in natural language

processing from the world of AI. And it looks like the future is already here. A new artificial intelligence is astounding the internet with its ease of use and human-like writing ability. Chat GPT was open to the public last weekend and many have already posted their interactions with the bot. So far it's written television scripts, fixed coding errors and even explained scientific concepts in the voice of a pirate. Yeah, that's right. For years people have been saying robots might be able to pack boxes but they will never be able to write a poem like human beings.

Well, it turns out your shitty poetry has some competition. Because I don't know if you've used this chat box, but it is insane. Not only can it understand a question you're asking, and then teach you about the topics. It can design a lesson plan. It can give the the their their their their their their their their their, their, their, their, tha, thiii, thi, thi, thi, to thi, to to to to to to to to to to be plan, it can give you the information, and it's not regurgitating it, it's explaining it to you. It can also write out the answers as if a pirate was teaching you. You understand how amazing that is? Like, quantum physics is what, but a pirate on top of the, like, I wish I had this technology

as a kid. The only reason I failed any subject is because the teacher was boring. But if Blackbeard was teaching me about physics, I would have remembered everything. Yeah, light operates as both a wave and a particle. The same way you can operate as both a human and fish food. Walk the plank! Ah! Don't forget today, homework. Obviously, obviously, obviously, this technology has a lot of people asking, is this going to replace my job as a teacher or as a receptionist, journalist, or even an author. And the truth is we don't really know. But it is interesting to see how our fears about AI have shifted radically over the years.

In the 80s and the 90s, we thought that in the future people would be like, these damn machines are wiping out the human race. And now our fear is that in the future we're going to be like, these damn machines keep writing love letters to my wife. She's going to leave me. And you've got to admit, you've got to admit, to be to be to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their their their their their th me. We're th me weird.pi. thi. thi. thia'ease thia'ease thia'ease thiakehiakehiakehiakehiakeh. We're their their their their theirmmakeh. Weakeh. Weakeh. Wea, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi.e, thiiiiiiiiia'n'ea'ea'ea'ea'ea'ea'ea'ea'ea'ea'eananankeweaseasease, thease, thiiiiiii She's gonna leave me! And you gotta admit, you gotta admit. It's weird that we're this obsessed with robots talking like humans, but we all hate talking to actual humans.

Like everyone's using this like, wow, it's like I'm talking to my mom. It's like, hey, your mom's actually calling you right now. Let it go to voicemail. Ask it if it's proud of me. All right, that's it's it for the headlines, but before we go to break, it's time to check in on all the latest social media trends with our very own, Ronnie Chang, everybody.

Thanks, one grubber. Thank you, thank been pouring through tweets, Instagrams, only fans, Tic-Tock, Snapchat, Only fans, 4chan's, Master Dons, only fans again. And now I'm mentally ill. Here's what's trending. The World Cup, where for 90 minutes, two countries can put politics aside and hate each other based on pure ethnicity. Today, Croatia beat Japan and Brazil knocks South Korea out.

And the thing about the World Cup is that when you come from a country like me, Malaysia, that's never in the World Cup, all you can do is cheer for people who look a little bit like you. Japan, Korea. And then when they get eliminated, you just cheer for whoever's not white. So, France. And then when they get eliminated, you just cheer for whoever's not white. So, France. But the big story of the day, as you said, was the AI chat bot, the fucking Charles Dickens robot,

trying to make Siri look illiterate. Personally, I don't like this bot, okay? Because every time you ask you a question, it cranks out a 10,000 word think piece. Relax, we got enough humans with opinions. I don't need my Rumba to develop a heart take on anti-Semitism. And by the way, did I miss an update or something? Because we got robots writing sonnets here. But every time I call Verizon, that robot can't even recognize me saying yes. Okay, so let's bring back the picture AI.

Bring back that one. That one was cool. They were putting Drake in the Matrix. Now that was useful, all right? And if you don't recognize this, that means that you're not on black Twitter enough because that shit was popping, all right? Follow me at Stir fry Hotepp. And by the way,

it's a joke for the black people. And by the way, I know you're saying this AI is going to take over a lot of jobs, okay? And maybe it will, but I'm not worried about it taking over comedy jobs. Because AI can't do what we do, all right? AI doesn't have the emotion, the artistry, or the fundamental ability to get hit in the balls. And as we know, nothing is as funny as getting hit in the balls. I mean, the magic of what we do is not a mathematical equation that can just be... Oh! Oh! Oh! You see that?

You see that, Trevor? You see how funny that was? An AI bought can never do that. See you can kiss my ass, R2D2. Everyone's so excited about this thing. I mean, look at what people are tweeting about it. I mean, just look at this guy. Look at his idiot.

What, oh, AI is the future. Oh, wow. What a genius? Did this guy go to MIT? I mean, what's you going to predict next that Apple will come up with a new iPhone next year? I hope this guy's a bot because no human would write anything that's stupid. Anyway, Trevor, I gotta go meet this really hot woman online. She really likes me and she's smart as hell and she talks like a pirate.

So I'll see you later, loser. Good luck with that, Ronnie. She sounds like a real funny. All right, when we come back, Jose Sloan is going to school all of us on drag, so don't go away. Welcome back to the Daily Show. Drag shows are going through a tumultuous time in America. On the one hand, it's never been more popular. But on the other hand, it's become the target of huge right-wing backlash, as we saw just this weekend in Ohio. Demonstrators protested a drag storytelling event in Ohio over the weekend.

It was supposed to take place at a church, but was canceled because of safety concerns. Several dozen members of the far-right proud boys and Patriot Front stood along the roads, touting guns and face masks. Some chanted Reclaim America, others gave a Nazi salute. You know, I don't know if it's a chemical reaction or a genetic predisposition, but any time a white man covers his face and white fabric, ain't no good coming after that. Because all over America, more and more stories like this are popping up, right, where grown men are showing up to drag shows to fight the tyranny of people

wearing dresses and having fun? Which you've got to admit is a little ironic, isn't it? It's just these guys running around angry, like, these grown men dressing up in these ridiculous costumes, it's not right! Are you in the military, sir? Oh no, but the character I role play has is a Navy seal. Yeah, do you like it? Do you like it? Do you like it?

And conservative And conservatives will give different reasons for why drag must be stopped. You know, some say it's immoral, some say that it sexualizes kids. Some say that Monet Exchange should have won season 7 of all stars, and they'll never forgive Rupon for that. But, if you ask us, this just shows how little conservatives know about drag. So here to educate all of us is our very own, Dose Sloan. Drag dates all the way back to the world's most ancient civilizations. I'm talking the Incas, the Aztecs, the Egyptians. Basically anyone that could build a pyramid also had a fierce walk. I mean, why do you think every man, woman, an eagle in ancient Egyptian art had a smoky eye?

Now drag was originally done in these ancient civilizations for tribal and religious ceremonies. It's pretty much how Priest got started wearing mooombs. It wasn't until modern times that drag played a role in entertainment. And not just any entertainment. I'm talking about the bad the bad the bad the bad the bad the bad the bad the bad the bad the bad the bad the bad the bad the bad the bad the bad the bad the bad the bad the bad the bad bad bad the bad the bad the bad bad the bad bad bad bad just any entertainment, I'm talking about the bad bitch barred himself, Shakespeare. Back in this time, men dressed in drag to play women's roles, although that was really less about drag and more about keeping women out of acthe-me. Me Sinks that doth be some bullshit, Horatio. So for a long time, the stage was pretty much the only place drag was acceptable. It wasn't until the 18th century in England that drag performers started to express themselves

outside the theater. They met at private residences where they could safely dress as their female alter egos, and those places became known as Molly houses. And it was at these Molly houses where the first Proste was the first drag queen to take her drag out of the privacy of the Mali houses and into public events like masquerade balls. And it was a big deal and incredibly brave because it meant volunteering to deal with cat calling. Now while 18th century England gave us drag queens, 19th century America gave us drag balls. It's the only time queens colonized the country and made it better. One of the most famous drag performers at that time was a former enslaved African named

William Dorsey, the Queen's swan. Dorsey slayed so hard he went on to become a pioneer of modern fallroom culture. Now there are no existing photos of the queen herself because how dare you? She was too glamorous to have her image captured by you peasants? But for reference, historians believe her look was probably something like this. Now, that is fashion. Come through Bridgeton. America's drag balls brought the culture to the next level. In Harlem, they became so popular that men and women would come from all over

to present their looks to a panel of judges, pageant style. And you know, there's something something something something something something something something something something something something something something something something something something something something something something something something something something their something their something their something thi something thi something thi something thi something thi th present their looks to a panel of judges pageant style. And you know there's something comforting and knowing that even hundreds of years ago, people were telling someone to their face that they were a messy bitch whose outfit is trash. Ah! The circle of life. In the early 1900s, one of the top drag performers was William Dalton, or better known by his drag named Julian Eltage. Damn, look th th, th, both leads in Casablanca. Just look how good her makeup is. And that was before Wet and Wild. She pulled that off with house paint and beat juice.

Julian was able to take her drag mainstream, her performing on Broadway and even in front of King Edward the seventh. I mean, of course he liked it. That dude could rock a cape. In fact, the king was so impressed, he gifted Julian with a bulldog, which personally, I don't think is a great prize. I prefer trophies that don't need to shit three times a day. Drag balls then exploded throughout the 1920s and 30s,

but like with most things, popularity brings out the haters. Mainstream actors started linking them to homosexuality, and soon masquerade laws were passed prohibiting cross-jessing in public. And you know what that meant? That's right. The Harry Stiles World Tour was cancelled! Due to these laws, drag went underground again. And it wasn't until the late 80s that it returned to the mainstream.

But when it came back, oh, it came back in a big way. Drag performers were featured in major motion pictures, including one of the best-known sisters ths s s s s s s s s s. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi-s, thi-s, thi-s, thi-s, thi-s, thi-s, thi-s, thi-s, th, th, th, th, th, thi-s, thi-s, thi-s, th, th, th. And, th. And, th, th. And, th, th, th, th, th, th. And, th, th, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thi-s, thi-s, thi-s, thi-s, thi-s-s-s, thi-s, theeea-s, thea. And, thea. And, thea. And, thea. And, thea. And, thea. And, thea. And, th in major motion pictures, including one of the best known sisters of the silver screen, Divine, who starred in the movie hairspray and was the inspiration for the Disney character Ursula. Damn, Kirby, incredible singing voice, and impeccable taste. Are you sure we're not talking about me?

Thanks to all these brave drag performers today we have hit shows featuring drag queens and we have a good reason to eat a meal as beautiful as brunch. So to all the outraged conservatives trying to drag drag through the mud open a history book. Now I know you hate those but now they have picture. Thank you so much for that Dulce I stay tune because when we come back, New York Times, best-selling Walter, Tresi Macmillan Potson will be joining me right here on the show. You don't want to the Daily Show.

My guest tonight is a professor at UNC Chapel Hill and a New York Times columnist. She's one of my favorite guests, so I'm delighted to have her back on the show. Please welcome Tresi Macmillan Cotham. Oh, true. Oh, you know. I'm going to be. Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh,

Oh, Oh, Oh, the tree. Oh, Oh, the too'n'e'l. Oh, to the today. to be back. to me, to say, professor. I'd love to know what you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th you tho tho to to to tho, to to tho to to the Daily Show. Welcome back to me indeed. It's a pleasure to be back. Right?

Or do I say professor? I'd love to know what you prefer because you have so many prestigious titles, you know, it's a New York Times best-selling author, or you know, it could be professor, it could be MacArthur. Is it a genius? Is it a genius? That they're like, you're not allowed to say that. The foundation would prefer not, but it's interesting. So they say you're a genius, but they're like,

you're not allowed to say it of yourself. Exactly. Kind of like your mother tells you, some things are best said about you by others. I see. Oh, you're amazing. But don't ever think that is Tricy, welcome to the show. Thank you very much. And what a time to have you on because you know there are few people who I've enjoyed learning from, engaging with, studying, because you're not just a

professor, you're a sociologist, you're somebody who looks at the world, you study what has happened, what is happening and how you think it will happen going forward and right now feels like an interesting time of everythingness going on. Let's start with, you know, one of our favorite platforms that we chat on all the time, Twitter. It's been a really interesting time on Twitter right now. Yes, that's an understatement. I try.

I specialize in those. I would love to know your opinion on Twitter itself and how we see its role in our society. There are some who say, because it is a business, Elon can do whatever he wants, he paid for it, he can take it, he can do as he pleases. On the other hand, there are people who are saying Elon taking over Twitter, which has become this public square only goes to show how dangerous it can be to have billionaires defining what everybody else can speak or what their speech might or may not be. And all of those things are true.

They are not true to my mind in equal parts. So I think the bigger story here is that we outsourced the public square, right? Twitter becomes, or it feels like the public square. But it has never operated in practice th th th th then then then then then then then then tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha thus thus thus thus thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thoes th out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out tho thus the the the the the toa. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea thea th becomes or it feels like the public square, but it has never operated in practice as a public square. It cannot. It is not owned by the state or by the people. And in fact, one of the things that minority people,

queer people have said for years about Twitter, is that they could not participate the same way that really powerful brands could participate, or politicians, or particularly, especially trolls. And....... And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, th. And, and, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their their, their their, their their their their their their their their, it is their, it is their, it is their, it is their, it is their, it is their, it is their, it is their, it is their, it is their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the same way that really powerful brands could participate, or politicians, or particularly trolls. And so in a true public square, there would be some way for people to talk back, right, to the powers that be. That's never been Twitter. That's never been any social media platform.

That is the difference between a business and something that is truly public. So it is a business. Elon Musk can buy it, as he was eventually, you know, forced to do. You know, he wrote a check and then his behind had to cash it. And that's how we find ourselves here. That we have used it to try to express sort of people power. Does not mean that the people own it or have any authority over it. What that says to me and what I th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi that is that is that is eventually that is eventually that is thi that is that is that is that is that is is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is that is is that is is that is that is thly th is is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the is thi the is the thi thi thi thi thi to thi that is that is that mean that the people own it or have any authority over it. What that says to me and what I think it says to many other people is that there should be a public space.

We are in an information society. Information is power and it is money. Why don't we have a civic public square that exists on the internet? Elon must buy in Twitter would not have mattered if the state was competing with Twitter. That's interesting. But do you think, but do you think, you know, many of these ideas are sound except when you add in that the state in question would be America. Yes, that's not her. And I mean this not because America's ineptness or anything, but rather because

America sees everything through the lens of, you know, left or right, Democrat, Republican always, it doesn't matter what the issue is. And it feels like America itself would never be able to create something like this because both sides wouldn't agree on what the thing should or shouldn't be. Oh no, absolutely. I mean, we see this debate about everything that is publicly governed, thamamam, where we cannot agree on whether or not our schools are indoctrinating our children, or should be preparing them for the economy of the future. Somehow Americans want it to do both, right? Don't teach my children anything, but make sure that they can be competitive in the

economy of the future. But you know what, that is the mess of democratic participation. It does not mean that we get it right. It means that there is a way to get it right sometimes. So we don't have to have the whole thing figured out for us to invest in publicness. So one of, you know, I teach at a public university in North Carolina, and I teach a lot of students who will go on to work in libraries and in the information sector. You know libraries are to me the shining example on the heel of what a public space can be. Are they perfect? Absolutely not. But do they welcome people into them and meet people where they are? Absolutely. Can America do that?

Yes. Now do we have to fight to do it every step of the way? Absolutely. But we can have that fight. You can't have that fight when an entity is owned by a single megalomaniac. Huh. You know, when we talk about these spaces and we talk about these ideas and we talk about these conversations, there's no denying that Twitter and many places like it have benefited from the diverse array of voices that have now been part of the platform. You know, you wouldn't know what was happening on the ground in the same way in Charlotte's were it not for Twitter. You wouldn't know what was happening on the ground in the same way, were it not for Twitter. It has has. It has become, as you said, it has the illusion at times of a public square, but many people have used it to that effect.

I would love to know, you know, from your perspective, if somebody who has seen your own journey, you know, from general obscurity to now becoming somebody whose voice is so respected and recognized. You write, you're, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is. and, is. and, is. and, is. And, is. And, is. And, is. And, is.I.I. And, is.I. And, thi. And, to.I.colic.c.c.c.c.e.c.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a. And, to. And, to. And part of their op-ed. You're shaping people's opinions. How do you find the balance? Or how do you inspire people you teach to think critically about the world that they're living in? Because half of the things we know are taught to us. And then at some point we have to decipher between what we've been taught is the truth or where the gray even exists? How do you even begin that journey as a teacher and as a learner who's constantly, because you're constantly learning?

Well, I think that is part of it. I try to always be a learner. It's really easy, I think, to develop and grow in your career and forget how overwhelming it is to learn something new for thery to be an idiot as much as humanly possible. I love that. I do that all the time. Yeah. You know, I enroll in something, I take up something that I'm just absolutely horrible at doing because I want to feel how vulnerable it feels to learn.

And it is a very vulnerable space. So when I am feeling generous, I think that there is a not insignificant part of the American public that isn't so much afraid of the other as they are of being ignorant. And some people would rather be angry than stupid. Interesting. And so figuring it out is actually really hard. This is something I've learned as I've taught people. And so there's a certain amount of vulnerability I think we have to share with each other, to say that just because I have achieved something in one part of the world or in one profession, doesn't mean I know everything. Now the challenge for us is that we have a culture that absolutely likes to turn every success

story into a universal story of genius, right? So you found it Facebook and now you can solve world hunger. As if those have anything to do with each other. So that is a problem of the culture, but I don't think it has to be that way. And I actually think one of the good things about Twitter has been how many people have been willing to model learning and public so that other people could see that it doesn't have to strip you Of your status or your position that learning can happen without you you know flailing about

I think I'll miss that about Twitter it ends no, I think it's gone you know it ends eventually listen Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Right. There'll be something new, obviously. But I don't know that anything else would be able to capture. That was one of the best things about Twitter. It was a space for people to see different kinds of genius. I like that. That you could be a good in one domain, still learning in another domain, that you could risk it. It is something that I enjoyed doing personally and I think that it was never the intent, the app's intention. Listen, people

turned it into that. That is not what it was designed to do. You think that's because we innately want to do that as human beings? I do. I have to believe that human beings are fundamentally curious. And social media is only popular because we're curious. We go there because we want to see. We're nosy. We, you know, we, we want to rubberneck the world, you know. And so what it is done, it is made it profitable, made our curiosity profitable. Right. And it has made our curiosity politically polarized. But that doesn't mean the curiosity is bad. I actually think it is a thing that separates us,

you know, from the rest of, well, no, the animal kingdom. I don't want to, I don't want to throw shade on animals. Animals are good. They are pretty curious. Yeah. I think, at heart we're aches. If we're lucky. But it does does th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi. thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, thi. It's, thi. It's, thi. It's, thi. thi. theeea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. that's, thea. does separate us, I think, from like a brick wall. It does indeed, it does indeed. Shade to all the bricks has been thrown.

That is correct. The animals have been spent. I can talk to you, I can talk to you for hours, but that's why we have your books. That's why we have some of your tweets. Thank you again for everything. So much. One more time. Trit and Edlin and clock from everybody. I'm going to take a quick break. I'll be right back after this. Thank you again. Well, that's our show for tonight, but before we go, before we go, this holiday season, consider supporting Feeding America. the largest hunger today. But before we go, before we go, this holiday season,

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