The Daily Show: Ears Edition - Understanding Gen Z with Jon Stewart and John Della Volpe

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

Jon sits down with John Della Volpe, Harvard Institute of Politics Polling Director and author of “Fight: How Gen Z is Channeling Their Fear and Passion to Save America,” to discuss the economic and cultural factors causing depression and stress with Gen Z and how that informs their political and personal identities.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

John Stewart here. Unbelievably exciting news. My new podcast, The Weekly Show. We're gonna be talking about the election, economics, ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches. Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart, wherever you get your podcast. You're listening to Comedy Central.

Hey there, it's Michael Costa. The Daily Show is on a break this week. But don't worry, we handpick some of our favorite recent moments from the show, in case you missed them. We'll be back with brand new episodes next week. Until then, enjoy today's episode. Welcome, Mark. The Daily Show, my guest tonight is the director of polling at Harvard's Kennedy School's Institute of Politics, and he's the author of Fight, how Gen ZZ is channel-is ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch is channel-in is channel-in, is channel-in, their of Fight how Gen Z is channeling their fear and passion to save America. Please welcome the program John Delaville, John! John! You're a man, come in today. Thank you for joining us.

Thank you for having me. You have spoken to Gen Z. Many of them here tonight, by the way. I don't know if you spoke to them. How many of you spoke to John for the... Okay, you get to them. That's crazy. Turn this into a focus group.

This is a focus group. Is that how you do it? Is it, are these, how do you get to Gen Zee? I have two of them in my house and I don't know what they think about anything. They want to be listened to. It's actually quite, quite, quite easy. You can bring a group of young people together and I ask a couple simple questions. Do you feel understood? No. What do people like me, what do you think people like me don't understand about you? And then there we go for two hours. It's actually quite easy. Can I tell you something? That is the plot of the breakfast club. That? That... How? So is this mostly focus groups? Are these checklists and surveys that you pass out? How is this done? What we do, and we've been doing this for almost 25 years now at Harvard, right?

Because young people 25 years ago were interested in understanding their generation. And to do that well, you need to go beyond traditional polling and asking people what they think, right track, wrong track, you need to spend time, immerse yourself in these communities. We spent a long weekend in Michigan with a 25 students or so just a few months ago to begin to understand. Now, are these people, do they, do you put up a flyer or do you put that on? Well, sometimes we'll literally go into coffee shops? Sometimes we'll literally go into coffee shops.

Sometimes we'll we'll recruit. Sometimes we'll hang up posters, asking people if they want to participate in a town hall. Sometimes we'll recruit people, based upon certain demographic groups, we'll pay them for a couple of hours. Do you worry that the sample size is skewed to people who visit coffee shops? Like, how do you adjust for that? We, well, that's just one phase, right?

That's the qualitative. And then we learn from those kinds of questions, and we conduct very large scale surveys of a relatively small population. So whereas most polls across the country might have a thousand Americans, maybe a couple thousand Americans. We do a couple thousand young people between the ages of 18 to 29, who were representative of that generation across the country.

So we learn from those conversations and coffee shops and community colleges and online, and then we take those ideas. We learn from what we hear and we try to quantify that through very large-scale, very rigorous surveys a couple times a year. And what then do you do with that? How is that, is that then sent to the media and they use it in a reductionist way that doesn't understand anything that you're talking about to make it seem as though on college campuses all across America, all they talk about is Israel, Gaza?

Because I've been on those campuses. All they talk about, listen, it depends It depends upon, listen, it depends upon what media outlet we're talking about, right? There are some media outlets who take these headlines and they run them around the world and they run them around the world as propaganda to say this generation of Americans are anti-American, and you'll see that around the world. So you can use polling as propaganda. This project started because not enough young people were participating in politics. Back in 1996, like when we were young voters, only a third of us voted in the presidential election. Thank you so much for calling me a young voter in 1996, when I believe I was old enough to have been president. Uh, what would you like this to be used for. What would you like this to be used for?

What is useful in this in your mind? Because it's very difficult to take a snapshot of something and say, this is the picture of this generation without it being a generality? This is what's so important. Okay. Is that, I think the goal of this or the goal of any public opinion research is to give voice to a generation, to give voice to the vulnerable. But isn't that tick-talk? Isn't that what social, like, I've never had a more heard generation.

I can't get them off my phone. And if he take a moment off of their phone, know what they're going to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their to their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their take a moment off of their phone, know what they're going to tell you? They're going to tell you that several days, last couple weeks, they were depressed. They're going to tell you some serious, serious concerns they have about their own mental health. And it gets pretty dark in some cases. They're going to tell you that they're not confident that they'll ever be able to do what we did in terms of own a house. They'll tell you that they're concerned about literally being homeless. It's virtually every focus group I do, whether it's virtual or otherwise. Last night, two members of a focus group of young people had already been homeless for an extended period of time in their home. How quickly do they reveal these sorts of things?

Within 15, 20 minutes. There was a woman in tears when I simply said, see this is the difference between kind of what the polling is that you might see the reductionist polling versus true public opinion research. Right. The way I get to this is I ask three questions. Okay. The first question is, your name, where you're from, what's the best part of your life today? Next question, what keeps you up at night? What are your stressors? Right. And then very, very quickly, it gets to the point that they open up.

And this is something I think unique about this cohort of younger people, of Genzir's they feel so disconnected from older generations because older generations through the media and otherwise consider them snowflakes, right? But no generation ever feels connected to the young generation never feels connected to the old generation, that's the whole point. They're here to replace us. We're we're our job is to breed swim upstream and then die off. Right. But this generation what this generation is they're up front then die on. Right. But this generation, what this generation is they're up front telling us about these concerns.

And I argue that these concerns are more real and versatile than maybe our concerns. I don't think that's what would you like our political system or our media system to do with this, other than to come out and go, hey, these guys are worried because what we ultimately end up getting, I'll watch the news and just see the Harvard School of Politics Institute did a survey and the number one concern is inflation and number 15 is Israel, Gaza, and 14 is emo music. Like it's and it'll just give you this list and there's no

illumination there, It's just a list. What I want elected officials to do, and they are doing, is to understand these concerns so they can speak to these concerns. Because if they speak to these concerns, young people will be more likely to vote. Not only can they speak to these concerns, but if they could show the track record record record, and the record, and the record, and progress, and progress, and the record, and the record, and the record, and the record, and to, and to, and to, and to, and to, and to, and to to to to to to to to to their, is their, is their, is their, is to their, is their, is their, is their, is to, is to, is to, is to, is to, is. to, is. to, is is. to, is. to, is is. to, and to, and to, and they.................... the the the to the the to to to to to to to the too. the too. toe. toe. toe. the toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. the the the the to record and the progress that we have made. Because, John, this is a different and better country because young people voted in 2020 in record numbers. We don't have KBJ on the Supreme Court.

We don't have the largest. They voted record numbers in the last one? In record numbers. What was the percentage of young people that vote? We look at 18 to 29 year olds. It's the first time in history that more more more more more more more more more more more more more more more more more more more more more more more more. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. th. th. thi. the thi. to. to. to. to. to to to to to to to to to to to to their. to to to to to to. to to to. to to to to. to to. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the ti. the times. the the the the the the times. the the the thea. thea. thea. to to to to to to to to to 20 to voted 51-52 percent. Really? Even in Vietnam, the young people didn't vote. This is higher than any time on record. On college campuses, it was over 60 percent, which is essentially the same rate as all Americans.

And what's interesting about this is not only would we have a highest turnout ever, but also it was the youth vote specifically in those five battleground states, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona, Georgia, who by 20 points voted for Biden. Donald Trump won everybody over the age of 44. So it's a young people in particular who are responsible flipping those states from red to blue and elected by. So if you were young people today and you did that and you overcame that, what has been done for you other than some of you you know in terms of like loan forgiveness or something along those lines but do you think

that the politicians did honor that vote? I think so because let's start with student debt debt relief. I think so because let's start with student debt debt relief in the last three years for over four million, soon to be 10 million Americans. That doesn't happen. We don't have, in my opinion, the first bipartisan gun violence prevention act in two generations without young people. You feel like that information just has to be delineated to them or they're not feeling those effects yet. Or did they, are they disappointed? Is to be delineated to them or they're not feeling those effects yet or did they are they disappointed is this survey different for young people do they feel did they feel that they were heard no I think

well I think that's the challenge right because what I care most about is participation okay and what drives participation is whether they can see a tangible difference in politics and government in their vote right and despite what they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they're they they they they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they're they're they're tha tha tha.a. tha. thttttttttttttto. thtttttttthea. they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they can see a tangible difference in politics and government in their vote. And despite what I believe has been the most pro-youth agenda in several generations from the Biden administration, despite that, few young people appreciate that. Few young people know the climate, the gun violence and student debt for kids as examples. Right. Right. climate, the gun violence, and student debt for forgiveness as examples.

Right. Right. Right. John Stewart here. Unbelievably exciting news. My new podcast, the weekly show. We're going to be talking about the election. Economics, ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches.

Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart wherever you get your podcast. Are they thinking about things more immediate to their lives? Is that why they're feeling differently? I don't think they're watching the news as closely. It's hard to get some of this information the news, so much what's in the news, it's a negative part one. But the other thing is, compared to what the policy preferences are for seniors, like, you can feel $2,000 prescription drug cap. You know that.

That's immediate, right? You can see in your 401k, right? The kind of the record performance. You can feel that. These things may take a generation to actually feel, with the exception of debt relief. So, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, the the the their, their, their, the, the, thi, thi, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, tho, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the a generation to actually feel with the exception of debt relief. So wouldn't it make, I wonder if it made more sense if instead of, if the idea is to make it useful information for people that can be actionable, is the idea maybe to think of this more as a customer survey, the way that a corporation might, to say, what is your satisfaction with the United States government, orthe government or your government or your life and how would what would improve it? Exactly. Do they do that? We essentially do that. We essentially do that. So it's like a customer service. It is essentially

a customer survey and I will tell you it was pretty tricky, very difficult 20, 25 years ago when we started. Right. We have been honored inside the RNC, the DNC. Our students have honored inside the RNC, the DNC, our students have briefed the administration, the Obama administration, the Trump administration, and the Biden administration directly. So we are honored because of the work of the young people who craft the questions here that we do have the ear. And you think there's an understanding now of this? Are you finding the kind of polarization that we see on social media and is the algorithm

driving their opinions in a way that wasn't happening 25 years ago? Absolutely. And of course, there's no equal side to the algorithm, right? It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, the threat. the thin. The. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. the the their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the algorithm, the algorithm, the algorithm, the algorithm, the algorithm, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their................. T... T.. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. their. their. their. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the's an element of those people who feel like the kind of the backlash, right, who don't feel connected. The thing about this generation is essentially two-thirds of this generation share a relatively common set of values in terms of what's important for government to focus on and to fight for, right?

So if you're a part of that one-third who feels disconnected, there is that opportunity, I do think, with these algorithms, to go into some pretty dark places. Where's the disconnect? Is the disconnect from the media? From how the politicians utilize that information? From their own misunderstanding of how the world should listen to them? You know, where is then the disconnect? I think it's all of the above. I do think that young people, you know, they used to information quickly, right?

They're used to, you know, asking for something in receiving it, you know, in an instant, or being delivered to them, right? So there does need to be, I think, some greater appreciation for the system and political parties need to understand that elections are won and lost based upon what young people think these days. 40 percent, 40 percent of the electorate are going to be Gen Z or millennials. 40 percent and this coming election. This election? Gen Z and millennials, okay. They have a shared

set of values. And you write in there that their passion will save this country? I do think so. Because as I talked about the severe kind of anxiety and depression that they have, but in many cases, other generations, okay, who feel that way, it's normal to actually, you know, flee, okay, and to run away. But this generation is decided to use all the tools, as David Hogg, the Parkland activist talks about, and their civic toolbox to fix problems and to stand up for their vulnerable, whether it's voting, whether it's protesting. Did you really think they're different than than th I mean, that kind of idealism and that kind of activism

has always been a part of that, and then everybody gets jobs and says, fuck it. Well, listen, generally, I mean, that's been my experience. I mean, that's the whole, you know, what happened, the hippies like the children of the future and you're like, yeah, they've been saying that forever and the cycle keeps repeating as though we

didn't also have the potential to do it but we didn't and they. I think, so two things. One is, this generation of younger voters voted at twice the level as millennials, genetics, number one. That's still twice, like when we were their age, when we were their age, 14, 15 percent of us voted, okay? Now why we were building a society. We were out in the streets, bricks and mortar building a society. And how to go, right? Not well how to come so that's part that that is part one but I am and telling you that they are committed they are committed to to dealing with these issues because I'll tell you why we're just the ones you talk to I that's only my curiosity because we know we talked I have I have two of them I don't talk to you don't talk to you to the the the the I the I to the I to the I to to the to the the the the to the to the the the to the the the to the the to the to the the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the they. I'm I'm I'm I to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the they. I I I I the the they. I they. I they. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I. You don't talk to my kids. You'd come on here tonight and go,

they just like watching Netflix. They really, it's, do you understand what I'm saying? I think we tend to want to look at it and make sweeping judgments about who these kids are. And we tend to then simplify it into a monolith. first step in misunderstanding and misrepresenting what they actually do. I liked much more what you talked about when you broke them down and they started talking to you as individuals. It's maybe when we have to take the reality of their lives and make them into data that we go wrong. Is that possible? I think so but in each generation does have have kind of a central identity.

So for example, Gen Xers, okay, we were in terms of politics and ideology split relatively the same as many as conservatives, as liberals, republics as Democrats, whereas this generation is different. The reason that this generation is different, this is important that no generation, no generation, since the greatest generation has dealt with more chaos, more trauma, more quickly than Gen Z. All of this at their footsteps before the age of 25. Listen to me, listen to me.

No, that's completely not true. Great. When I was growing up, Martin Luther King was killed, John of Kennedy was killed, the Vietnam War was on and then there was water. And th, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, to th, th, th, listen, th, th, listen, th, th, th, th, th, that, that, that, tho, that, that, that, tho, th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. And, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, Kennedy was killed, Robert Kennedy was killed, the Vietnam War was on and then there was water game. We put someone on the moon and we came together for that. This generation, this generation, but that did degate all the other shit? It did not, it did not. And every generation has their trauma. Yes.

But this generation hasn kids felt good about being American and connected to everybody this morning really yeah I think this is the kind of generalization that I think I take issue with that idea that like this generation has had challenges in a way that no one else has I just think that's putting upon them a sense of victimhood that is not necessarily and I think can ultimately have them play into that identity as opposed to saying, yeah man, your perspective is this is the worst the world has ever been. But I'm going to tell you something. The world is hard and it's horrible sometimes and it spins out of control. All we can do is fight every day to make the world more look like the one that you want it to be.

But to treat them as though they have faced some kind of condition that is so anathema to everything that all these other generations have faced doesn't feel real to me. I didn't say more than all other generations. Well you said since the greatest generation. And the difference though is without seeing America united. The difference between a millennial, in my view, in a Gen Zier is a millennial remember September 11th, and September 12th and 13th for that period of time when we came together, a red county and a blue county hung the flag. That's like a day. It was a short pair of thrown.

But this generation doesn't understand that. And it's been division after division. And it would be easy for them, in my opinion, to not engage in politics, not try to work with other people to try to address this. How much of that is imposed upon them through the algorithm and the the the the algorithm the algorithm the algorithm the algorithm the algorithm the algorithm, thi the the the, the, the algorithm, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thia, thi, thi, but thi, but thi, but thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the the the the the the the, the, the, the, the, the, thuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuan, thutry to address this. How much of that is a fiction? How much of that is imposed upon them through the algorithm and through the media that somebody, you know, we were just talking about this, a young woman in the audience said, how do you remain hopeful?

And I said, the way I remain hopeful is to separate the world that you experience as a human being every day. And aren't we by creating these data points of the horror that they all live in? Like, yeah, it sucks to have shooter drills. But we had nuclear war drills where we hit under desks. And I didn't know that much about the atomic bomb, but I was pretty sure my desk wouldn't help. But do you understand what I'm saying? I do. So we we we we we wee we wee we wee we wee we wee we wee. I th we th we create. I th we create. I th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. And aren't thi. And aren't thi. And aren't thi. And aren't thi. And aren't thi. And aren't thi. And aren't thi. And aren't thi. And th. And th. And th. And th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. And the. And thea. And thea. And thea'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'er. And, thea'er. And, th. And, th atomic bomb, but I was pretty sure my desk wouldn't help. But do you understand what I'm saying? I do. So we create this mythology around these things that is part of that separation. But there's nothing, seeing children

slaughtered in schools, we didn't see a nuclear war, is not mythology. But we were seeing in Vietnam, we were seeing, I mean, right? No, no, we are, and we are seeing that. the. So, and we we we we we we we so. So we so. So we so we so we so we so we so we so we so we so we so we so we so we so we so we so we create, so we create, so we create, so we create, so we create, so we create, so we create, so we create, so we create. So, so we create, so we create. So we create. So we create, so we create. So we create. So we create. So we create. So, so we create. So, so we create. So, so we create. So, so we create. So, so we create. So, so we create. So, so we create. So, so we so, so we so, so we so, so we th. So we th. So we th. So we th. So we th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. we th. th. th. th. th. th. we th. th. th. we the. the. So, so we create, so we create, so we create, so we create, so we are the. war, is not mythology. But we were seeing in Vietnam, we were seeing, I mean, No, we are, and we are seeing that, but what I'm telling you is, I listen, there's elements of this, I agree, and we collectively should be putting this into context for people. It does stress them out. I agree with that. But what I'm saying is that we just have to agree with, we don't have to agree that, but we just have to understand the way that they feel and where they're coming from and help them, help themselves and help us.

That's all, that's my message. And in these issues are real because we could work a summer job as an intern or cutting grass in a thorough, I mean oneyear tuition, a public or private university. We could do that in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s. Young people can't do that today. Okay, you can work a one job and afford a house. These are the rights. Not only is this generation losing reproductive health care from the Supreme Court,

but this is a generation who feels like they're losing other rights. The rights to attend a college without going broke if you work hard, right? The rights to own a home or piece of property. Right. Those are the rights. And those are... But isn't that a different conversation? Isn't that... I don't think so. It's about any... It's not... Listen, young people live in the same economy that we all live in. thin. I would look at it like, you know, I they. they. they. they. they. Young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young young the same the same, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same, young, young, young, young, young, young the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young, young people the same, young people the same, young people their, young people, young people, young people, young people, young people, young people, young people, young, young people, young, young, young people, young, young people, young look at it like, sometimes we'll think, like I happen to be in an unbelievably fortunate situation, but I look at the crunch that people feel, you know, just as they get into middle age after having worked for so long, and they just get to that college age

where they're putting their kids through college, their parents start to need help. And you're in that crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy that crazy squeeze. But separating that through generations isn't that losing the overall thread economically? No, there is clearly economic stress around all Americans right now. Right, right. Listen, before we did this survey... Do we really need to talk to the Gen Z anymore? Before the...

Don't we know enough already? I watch the Tick-Tock. It's everywhere. Are they, do they, do they, do you think social media has hurt them? Unquestionably it's hurt them. Really? Yeah, it's hurt them. What would you do to ameliorate this feeling that Gen Z is having and to, or has it helped them organize and so you wouldn't lose it because it's a double-edge? It's certainly some pros to it. I mean there are folks who feel vulnerable who can find community on that space where they can't find in

their own in their own community and that's good right they can organize from it but the degree to which fear is instilled in their lives I was talking the other day in terms of what people are anxious about. And a lot of young men, I talk to you, have feeds every morning of car crashes, like horrible, horrible car crashes. In their TikTok Instagram feeds where they're concerned about driving to work. The economic fears about... Wait, what? Yeah. In terms of the algorithms, right? Oh, it just feeds them car crashes to that. It feeds car crashes to that. How the fuck does that even start? That's just one example. Can I tell you all I get is that one girl going,

I'm two days into college and on three lectures behind. And then it's just a thousand people dancing to that. That's your algorithm, right? They found you. I'm doing it wrong. Thank th. th. th. th. th. th. th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th to that. That's your, that's you, that's your algorithm, right? That's, they found you. I'm doing it wrong. Thank you very much for coming by. Harvard's John Delavolby. Explore more shows from the Daily Show podcast universe by searching the Daily Show, wherever you get your podcasts. Watch the Daily Show weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central, and stream full episodes anytime on Fairmount Plus. This has been a Comedy Central podcast.

Hey everybody, John Stewart here. I am here to tell you about my new podcast, The Weekly Show coming out every Thursday. We're going to be talking about the election. Earnings calls. What are they talking about on these earnings calls? We're going to be talking about ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches. I know you have a lot of options as far as podcasts go, but how many of them come out on Thursday. Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart wherever you get your podcast.