The Daily Show: Ears Edition - W. Kamau Bell - "We Need to Talk About Cosby"

Episode Date: February 20, 2022

Comedian W. Kamau Bell discusses his docuseries "We Need to Talk About Cosby" and the struggle to reconcile Bill Cosby's creative legacy with revelations of his horrific sex crimes. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. W. Kamal Bell. Welcome to the Daily Show. Yeah, maybe my last time. Welcome, maybe your last time. I just feel like I might be doing my last show. You know what I appreciate you, my friend, is the last time we spoke was like in the heart of the pandemic.

I was in my apartment and you're, I think, single time I see you talking about racism, you talk about racism, you're always bringing the room down, you're talking about racism. And I see, you felt that as a challenge. You were like, you know what Trevor, I'm going to show you, and this time we're going to talk about Bill Cosby. Oh, you thought I brought this? I remember you calling me and you said, hey, I'm doing this documentary about Bill Cosby. Would you like to be in it? And I was like, no, there is no reason I would want to be part of this document. But no, but in all honesty, it's because, and I know this is strange to say big Bill Cosby actually was.

So tell me why. Why would you, why do you think we need to talk about Cosby? I appreciate you talking about that phone call because I got a lot of knows for a lot of people and I've been very clear about, other than obviously Hannibal Burris, so a lot of people said no? Of course. Well, I only said no because I didn't. Like, I don't feel like I could add to the conversation. I mean, a lot of people, I mean, yes, I understand that, but I'm saying like a lot of, I mean, if you stack the yeses next to the nose, wow. Yeah. Yeah, and it's, and you know, and a, and a, and a, and a, and a, and a, and a, and a, and a, and a, and a, and a lot, and a, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a lot, and a, and a, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I. And, I. And, I. And, I. And, I. And, I. And, I. I. I, I, I, I, I. I, I, I, I, I, I, I. I, I. I. I, I. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. th. th. th. the. th. the. the. th. the. the. I, I, I mean, I, I, I. So when you were getting all the nose, did you think, oh, should I not

be making this thing? Yeah. That was one of the many times I thought. And right now as I sit here, should I be making this thing? It's like, I can't explain it other than I was, I'm always drawn to difficult conversations. That's kind of my thing. And because Bill Cosby was such a huge cultural, racial figure in my life and so charted a path that I was like, that's the path I should be on. Do good work, be a comedian, but also do good in the world. Like a lot of black folks, specifically of my generation older, we were just gutted to find out about these allegations. And then wrestle with do I believe them and I believe them. And so it's like, and, that conversation's going in my head all the time, every time he makes an appearance or sends out a, sends out a tweet. And like, I'm always thinking about it and talking other people about it.

And I couldn't, I found myself in a position where I was talking to the producers of this doc about it. And they were like, they had never thought about it this way. And so this is this is this is this is this is th th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. I, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, and I. And, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, th. And. And. And, like, like, to. And, to. And, to. And, to. And, I. And, I. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to do it by something that was not rational. I think you doing it has honestly opened up one of the hardest conversations that we need to be having in society, not just specifically about Bill Cosby, but about society as a whole, right? It feels like, especially when you watch the tock series, that there are almost three generations of people that are going to exist. Yes. There are the people who came up with Cosby. You know, you are sort sort sort sort sort sort sort sort sort sort sort sort sort sort sort sort sort sort sort sort sort sort sort sort sort sort the heart the heart the heart the heart the heart the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, their, th hardest, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho' the hardest, tho' the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, the hardest, that are going to exist. Yes. There are the people who came up with Cosby, you know, you are sort of in the heart of that. Yeah, like Cosby. I was, Cosby was one of the influences. He shaped you. No shape, it was part of shaping you, really, you know? I mean people were talking about this, you know, just before we came out for this interview, like my producers and they were talking about how like in white families they were like Cosby's this is the biggest thing it wasn't a black or white

It was Cosby he was America's dad America's dad America's dad Yeah, right and he had done so much and you know we talk about how you know you learn this in the documentary is like how Cosby changed stuntmen in America like Cosby was the one who said hey you can't have white guys in black face? st, just get black stunt men. He changed Hollywood forever. Yeah, yeah. There were no stunt, black stunt performers performers under contract until Bill Cosby. So you have this generation of people who goes, man, Bill Cosby changed my world in all the best ways. Then you have the now generation who goes like, then you have the generation that goes like, how do we, how do we live with the myth? Yeah. And the man. Yeah. And that's, did you answer that question the documentary for yourself?

I think the way we, is to deal with all of it. I think the only way you can deal with it. Like, Roland Martin makes a great point. It's like you can't talk about America in the 21st century without talking about Bill Cosby. I think he says Black America, but you can't talk about America in the 21st century without talking about Bill Cosby, but you can't also ignore all the things that have come out in the 21st century. Right. And so for me, this whole doc is about creating a space to talk about all of it. It's we need to's sorrow, there's a lot of it is based in conflict or a roiling frustration and you have to talk about all of it because otherwise we

lose essential parts of American history. For a lot of people I'm hearing like they've been waiting for this conversation to happen in some format and the other problem in America we have the like it's not time now it's not time, it's not time now anytime. And anytime there there's any anyany any any any any any any any any any any any any any any any any there's any any there's any there's any there's any there's any there's felt like it's time and then he got out. He got out on the last day of filming. Yeah I had two questions one how did you feel about that and two did you ever reach out to him to be a part of the documentary? So he got out on the last day of filming it was one most surreal days of my life up until tomorrow when he releases a the surreality will continue the surreality the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to the to to the the to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I will will will will will will will will will will will will will will will will will will will will will will will will is is.a tea tea toea toea toooooo to a to a to a to a to a to a to a to a to a to to to. You know, I thought maybe the project goes away and also, yay, maybe the project goes away,

you know, because it just so hard to make. I didn't reach out to him because I was always clear that one, it's a conversation about him. It's not a true crime documentary. It's not about finding out what this person thinks. It's a conversation about the allegations, I believe, as I said. And it just felt like I had really, we had worked hard as a team to get to earn the survivor's trust. To sit down and have these conversations in a more wide open way.

And that would have felt like a real betrayal of their trust to put Bill Cosby into this. One thing I appreciated in this documentarytackle it in a nuanced way. You didn't just go like, so what happened? It seemed like there was more to the conversation. What do you think we missed in some of the ways we were trying to have conversations in and and around Cosby and in many of his survivors who came out? It was really important for me and them in the dock when they're just commenting on the time and the era. And if they have good memories of Bill Cosby, let's bring them in to talk about that.

Because then the thing happens is like maybe some woman is telling you about how Playboy worked and he who's who Hefner was another man who's in this era. And you go, oh, she's an expert because, and she was in, and they, they, they, to, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, to, they, they, they, they, they, they, to, the, to, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, and, and, and, and, the, and, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, bring, bring, the, bring, bring, bring, the, bring, and, bring, bring, bring, and, bring, bring, bring, and, bring, bring, bring, bring, bring, bring, bring, bring, bring, bring, bring, bring, and, bring, bring, bring, and, bring, bring, and, bring, and, bring, and, and, bring, and, and, and, bring, to. to. to. to. to. to me. to me. to me. to me, to me, to me, to me, to me, to me, they. they. they. to me, bring they. you get to meet her as a human being who's an expert in her life and her field, and you're out bringing all that, the survivor's about to tell me a story to. Right, right. Is it possible to separate the artist from the arts? Do you think it is possible? I mean, I would say this,

we separate the art from the artist all times. Musicians could be actors where they don't have to be criminals, but you go like right now You talk about Eric Clapton you know I mean? There are a lot of people who don't agree with any of his vaccine stances But but but maybe felt touched by the song tears in heaven you know I mean like so we do that all the time we just don't think about it until it becomes somebody who's so Seminnel as Bill Cosby where if I th, the the the the the the the the the to the to to to to the to the to the to the the to the to to the the to the to to the to to to to to to to to to to to to be so to be so th is to be so to be so to be so to be so to be so to be so to be so to be so to be so to be so to be so to be so to be so to be so to be so to be so to be so to be so to be so to be so to be so to be so to be so the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the they. they. they. I they. I th. I'm th. I'm they. I'm they. I'm the the the the the the the the the the. the. I's thethe stuff anymore and you go, I can, then it becomes a fight of you mad at me for because you think I don't understand and because you don't think I'm taking him seriously. And so for me, I'm like, in this doc,

we can take the art seriously, but we have to talk about the other stuff. Well, I'll tell you this, throwne this man man man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, thus, thus, thus, throwns, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the, the the the the throwne, the the tho, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the, the, the it just on a personal level because I think it gives people an opportunity to consume an extremely complicated story and a complicated legacy in one of the most nuanced ways possible. So thank you for that. Thank you for putting yourself on the line. And I want you to know if your career ends, I will, I will like claim that I never knew you, but I appreciate what you did. And I will respect that. This tape will be to to to to the the the the the the the the the the th the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tape tape tape tape tape their their tape tape their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their tape... tape. ta. ta. ta. ta.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e. ta.e. ta.e. ta. te.e. te. te. te. you, but I appreciate what you did.

I will respect that. I will respect that. This tape will be deleted. I understand. No, I'm in for real mind. Congratulations and thank you very much, Trevor. We need to talk about Cosby. For me is January 30th, only on a show time.

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