The Daily Show: Ears Edition - What Is Esports? | Beyond the Scenes

Episode Date: May 1, 2023

Esports competitions have seen a boom in popularity in recent years with some of the highest paid players making up to six figures. Celebrities like Drake and Post Malone have even invested in the sport. Host Roy Wood Jr. sits down with Daily Show correspondent, Michael Kosta, and LA Thieves Call of Duty player, Sam “Octane” Larew, to break down the similarities and differences between traditional and electronic sports and how professional gaming is making its way into the mainstream.   Follow Beyond the Scenes from The Daily Show: Watch full podcast episodes: dailyshow.com/beyond Listen wherever you get your podcasts: http://podcasts.iheartradio.com/5VF7TkWF?sid=soc See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to Comedy Central. What's up, Ears Edition, listener. It's Roywood Jr. Correspondent for the Daily Show. You're about to hear an episode of one of our original Daily Show podcast Beyond the Scenes. Hosted by me, it's the show where we dive deep into segments and topics from the show with the show's writers, producers, and experts. In this episode, I'm joined by Daily Show correspondent Michael Costa and LA Thieves Call of Duty player Sam Octane LaRue to dive deeper into

the world of e-sports. We talk about how professional competitive gaming compares to traditional sports, gamer's ability to make up to six-figure salaries and the growth in celebrity investment in the games. Take a listen. And if you like the show, check out the Beyond the Scenes podcast wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to Beyond the Scenes. The Daily Show podcast that goes a little deeper into segments and topics that originally aired on the show. Like, look, this I got a thing about this podcast. If the Daily Show is a salad, then we're the toppins that make you want to eat that salad

The croutons the grilled chicken the Caesar salad dressing or French or basamic vinegar at or whatever the hell you prefer we all know that honeymustress the champ we got it for you We got it for you we're diving into the world of e sports today. We're? We're diving. We're diving. We're diving. the the the the the world. the world. the world. the world. the world. the world. the world. the world. the world. the world. the world. the world. the world. the world. to to to to to the world. the world. to to the world. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to eat. to to to eat. to eat. to eat. to eat. to to eat. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the today. today. the the thea. the thea. thea. thea. tape. today. to to to to to to to to to -sports today, based on a segment from Daily Show correspondent, Michael Costa. This segment took a deeper dive into the growing professional gaming industry. Roll my clip! Competitive video gaming, known as e-sports is booming. There's even a training center with five training rooms and six locker rooms. The Olympics are considering adding e-sports. I went to California to a so-called training center in someone's garage to talk with these athletes about why video games isn't a sport. What the hell is this? This was the alienware training

facility for eSports Team Liquid, complete with scrimmage stations, a war room, PR department, a team coach, and even an in-house chef? The team star, whose name is Taco, was acquired from Brazil's top team. This is a real sport. You call yourself an athlete? Yes, of course. We compete. We go to tournements. We travel a lot. We got some money.

What is an e-sport athlete, Mr. Taco, do every day? Just practice. Yeah. I have a former professional tennis player. That's what I would call like a real sport. There is an opponent and you would relish the opportunity to defeat them with your racket. What do you actually have to show for what you're doing? Come on. I have a really strong finger.

A finger? Yes, this finger I will kill at least one million people. That finger's killed one million people. At least. To help break this down a little bit more for us, I'm joined by my fellow Daily Show correspondent and Michigander, Michiander, Michiander, Michiander was right, trust your instincts, you had it. Okay, yeah, Michigander, and I I thgergergergergergergergergerger and I and I and I and I and I and I and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I'm, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. This, th. This, th. This, th. This, th. This, th. This, th. This, th. This, th. This, th. This, th. This, th. This, th. This, th. This, thanderger, Michigan, how do I say? Michigander was right, trust your instinct, you had it. Okay, yeah, Michiganderger and I'm gonna learn from you

what you learned about making this segment. Costa, how you doing? I'm good, man, thanks for having me and it feels odd to even be called in on this piece because I was such a skeptic going in. And now, like, you got an East sport I mean I never you know I grew up with sports not what's this E why is there why is there a vowel in front of it now so but I was a really impressed and turned the corner so to speak but obviously your other guests can really talk about e-sports yeah and that other guest is a call of duty player for the LA thieves.

Sam, Octane, LaRue, Sam, how you doing? What's going on guys? I'm glad that we, uh, I'm glad we converged you, Michael, I like that. That's, that's got, I know you were a skeptic before him, but see that's just, it's good. that's good. It's good. It's good. It's good. It's good. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. the the the the the the the the the the to. to. to. to. to. to. the the the the they. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their. th. th. th. th. th. the. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. the ta. Oh, okay. So you didn't even want to in the first place. Okay. Yeah. I was reluctant and you won me over. So that's a testament to how fun this can be. I like that. Are you a video game guy at all or not, none at all?

Nothing. Ever since the controller had more than the A and B button. Lord, are you serious? Not even a Sega Genesis? I mean, Roy, I remember walking into you and Ronnie's office and you guys would be playing whatever and I was just like, this looks cool, but I am so intimidated. Oh yeah. Ronnie and I was a slow week where they didn't need us. Oh yeah. Okay.

I saw everything set up. Well, and I don't want to jump ahead, but when I said about the piece, and I guess this is how I got converted, I like watching anybody try to compete and perform under pressure. And once you realize that e-sports, that's what it is, that's fun. That's fun for me. That's how I am about most things. If I know someone's going to be disappointed in crying at the end of the confrontation, it's usually my cup of tea.

I can't even watch chopped kids. Sam, let's start with that e-sports. Okay. In front of e-sports, you know, describe that world. to be extremely tabu. game. Oh man we're summarizing e-sports. Okay, competitive video gaming is something that is well used to be extremely taboo. I'm happy you know Michael is a perfect example here that it's a little bit more mainstream than it used to be for sure. But like I said it was it was taboo years ago and their

told them it was tab into an Uber and they're asking where I'm going, what I'm doing. And I tell them the usual reaction is, oh, my kid plays video games or, oh, how do you do that? And it's a very misunderstood topic I could say. So I'm happy to see the progression that it, you know, people being lazy, it wasn't a productive thing to do with your time. It meant you blind, it ruins your television. Exactly. You couldn't, you couldn't make a living off of it.

It was just a huge time sync and I'm happy that the outlook on e-sports and video games in general, like I said, has changed happens to be Call of Duty but there's countless out there. The way I've tried to explain it to people is that it's really not that different than going to a video game arcade back in a day and you and five or six different guys would all try to get the high score on whatever the hill, Pac-Manne, whatever you're just doing that online. The only scope of knowledge that I had of e-sports growing up was Madden. I went to college at a place where people would play Madden for money in the dorm, you know in the TV room or whatever. And then eventually at some point ESPN had like a Madden League they used to come on at like four in

the afternoons on ESPN 5 or some shit. And I was like, oh yeah, that makes sense because I've seen people do that here. But then once it got into like the bigger world of like all of these role-playing games and the first-person shooters, I'm like, well how, where is the money coming from with that? Like how does the money flow from that? because this is being broadcast on Twitch and the internet and I'm assuming it's no different than a broadcast network where you turn you advertised to all of the eyeballs right? Exactly. It's very it's very similar to the true espots.

In at least my neck of the woods, I play in a franchise league. So, the the their nec. to their franchise league. to to to be. to be. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe, toe. toe. toe. toe, the the to to to to to to to to to to to toe, toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. the the the the the the the the the the the toe. the the the the the toe.e.e. the.e. the. toe.e.team. So there are ways to compare it to traditional e-sports to help people kind of figure out how to navigate the waters, but it's definitely a little tricky because like you said people don't know where the money's coming from and you hear these absurd figures like, and there's a game called. And there's a game called a their game, their game, their game, their game, their game, their their their their game, tode, tode, tho, toda, tho, the, toda, the, the, the, the, theateateateateate, to to to to to to tolde, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, their their thea, the thea, the thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, was a $40 million tournament. So people are very reluctant and very confused when they hear the numbers being thrown around. Like I said, it's because it was so taboo years ago. The transition of like trying to understand the landscape is a little bit challenging for people at times for sure. It's a little, 40 million dollars is a little different than a mad in your dorm for sure. I don't know they was fighting in them dorms. She competition is probably about the same. Yeah, how do you how do you get into this? Because this is one of them careers that now like do you feel like Costa like at

this point like I wanted the teacher tell me about this shit when I was in a third grade I had it stuck with that Sega Genesis how do you get into this world? Like, how do you even make a team, like, are you so good at Call of Duty as an individual that you get a call? Is it like the Matrix? Does someone knock at your door and say, follow the white rabbit? How do you get pulled deeper and deeper into this world and then see it as a viable career path? So I think, I'm very confident I can say that like 95% of people start out as a casual video game player because they're doing it whether it be for fun or it's just a game that they enjoy in general. I think there are very few cases where people actually just start playing and want to play

competitively immediately. In my case, I just loved playing call duty and love to play video games my entire life. I've been playing since I could hold a controller, essentially. And I kind of tripped and fell into a career, to be honest with you. I was playing recreationally, like I said, and I had met some friends online that introduced me to the world of competitive call duty. I didn't even know it existed when I was playing. I was kind of just in my own little bubble, wasting time essentially in high school. And my friend at the time, like I said, that I met online, he wanted to travel to this event and it was so strange to me and I was like 16.

And I don't even know if I was good, but you know when I'm 16 years old, traveling across the country to play a video game event just sounds like a great idea. So naturally I did it. I begged my parents and I don't know why they let me do it but they did. So shout out to them. And I kind of just tripped and fell in love with it. It was it was completely accidental and I think that's honestly the best case scenario because it's you know my livelihood today. Roy in the piece I interviewed Rick Fox, former Lakers. The hell is he doing there? Well exactly. So this this this this this this this this this this this this this this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is I I I I I I'm I'm I'm I'm. I'm. I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. champion. Echo Fox. The hell is he doing there? Well, exactly. So this is, I'm sure. I mean, no disrespect to Rick Fox.

I'm on him to beat my ass. Well, and I remember when we were pre-producing the piece, I think one of my questions was, can we get, excuse me, Sam, I'm just going to speak frankly. I say, can we get a real real real real real real real real real realsports? Because I don't want to sit with an e-fleet. I want to sit with someone that like, I don't ever see that again. Whatever, whatever the term is. But man, there was something really powerful about a guy wearing his Lakers world championship

ring, right? It's easier to connect with, for certain. Exactly. What are you doing with these nerds, man? You're a real athlete. And so are they. What the shit are you talking about? Me and you, we played real sports. You know, you can see our balls in our pants when we played. In our error, I think there was no shame around pursuing a career in professional sports because you can get a scholarship to college, which by the the their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, theck, the, the, theathea, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thean, thean, toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, the, get a scholarship to college, which by the way you can get as an e-sport player now. There's a number of colleges that are building e-sports arenas on their campuses.

This is all great, but let's get down to brass tax here. How much do these e-fleets make? Probably the best top-layer in the world in one of our games. He makes probably 800,000. What? And he talked th. And he th. And he th. And he th. And he th. And he th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. th. thi. tho. tho. thoes thi. thi. the. to to to thoes thoes the. the. theer. theer. theeer. theer. the. the. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I is is is is is is is th. I is th. I is th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toea. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. the the talked about how, I think he has a son, or maybe he was talking about one of his players, I don't know, but their parents were like, stop playing video games, you know, go outside, go outside and play, and then one of his athletes had just signed like a $3 million contract. And it is very funny because my mom, we played Super Mario, we played, you know, my mom, get outside. You know, you'll, I'll give you an hour of video game time if you go outside all day. You know, and it's really like, yeah.

My mom, you really blew my financial opportunities and I blow my mom to this day. Your mom's the reason you're not a professional sports player, right? Okay, so the constant in that lane. the same the other tha tha tha tha tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. the. the. the. the. the. the. to the. tooes. tooes. tooes. tooes. the. tooes. tooes. to to to to to tooes. tooes. tooes. too. too. too. to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. to. to. Yeah. th. Yeah. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the the the the the the the toe. the toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. the the. were some of the other like similarities and differences between like traditional sports and e-sports? Are they getting timeouts? Are they getting water breaks between every round? Like do you have a cornerman? Get them? Rock! We're dropping the gloves. We went to team liquids trainings facility in Santa Monica and when I walked in, okay, quickly about me, I played minor league professional tennis, dedicated much of my life to tennis. Never got to the

highest level in tennis that I wanted to. But I walked into Team Liquids training facility and I said, this is a tennis academy. I mean, there was a training facility, there was a breakdown room where you would, where you'd break down video. Watch footage. They had th. T th. T th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th. T a breakdown room where you would break down video. Watch footage. Watch footage. They had mental coaches, maybe the wrong word, on staff. They had lots and lots of people whose job it was to facilitate and make sure the athletes were ready to compete.

And as soon as I walked in the door, I just had this feeling of like, oh shit, I got to go put my tennis shoes on and go practice. It just felt like that. So there was a lot of similarities. So Sam, in that world, I would assume that diet and sleep help your mental acuity, which makes you quicker and more analytical. What is the typical training day? Like, I'm not going to say you don't need to be physically fit.

I feel like you do. Definitely helps. I've been on both sides of the spectrum of physically fit and not physically fit while competing. It definitely helps. How does that tax your body? So it's much more mental. Don't get me wrong. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that we go through the physical strain that I'm not gonna I'm not gonna agree with that either

naturally I would love to do a a side-by-side cholesterol or blood pressure test of an e-fleet versus a we could run of a 40 right now and we'll see how it goes no but still sitting in a chair like because I've noticed them gaming chair cost do you ever said one them outrageous they're outrageous they are are are are are are are are are are are are are kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they they they're the they're their their their their their their their their their their I I I I their I their I I I their I their I I their I I I their I I I I I their I I I their I I I I I I I I I I c I I I I I c I c I they I they I they I they I they I they they. they. they. I they. I their their their their they. I'm they. their they. they. they. they. their they. they. their their not outrageous. They are kind of ugly but so comfortable. They're not comfortable. Oh my God. They're not comfortable. I actually prefer the office here side. Anyway, so like I said, it's all, it's essentially all mental.

Obviously, being in better physical shape is just better for your life in general. That impacts all aspects of your life, not just video games. But to Michael's point, how he mentioned the infrastructure behind team liquids facilities and all that, that's pretty much the standard throughout the majority of tier one e-sports. That's when you talk about League of Legends or DOT or Counter-Strike, call-duty, all of these things, that is the standard. We have a chef as well. We have mental performance coaches, we have all of these things, and I think that that's another thing that people really can gravitate towards and understand it, because when you watch these videos, like behind the scenes

of, I don't know, the charters facilities, you'll see like their locker room, you'll see where they watch their game film or vodka for us. You'll-one comparison, so I think that that's another thing that can help bring people towards e-sports and easier light. And to your point, Roy, it's all mental. It's 95 to 5, I would say, in terms of mental. And that's arguably worse, because you can become your own worst enemy pretty quickly because it's very performance-based and obviously traditional sports are as well, but you can get hurt and you can go out for the season and that's not really, I mean, it's not your fault, that's just an unfortunate circumstance. Whereas in e-sports, it's entirely on your performance and there's really, bar

like an extreme circumstance, there's no excuse. You either played well or you played poorly and there's not like the defense sucked but I did my job it's not like it's not like I threw for 400 yards and three touchdowns but my defense let up for you know 40 points it's like I went out and I either help my team women or I help my team lose so there are very strong yeah yeah very binary mental health for sure are you guys drug tested this is not a joke. I mean, if it's that mentally straining, there's all types of legal and illegal focus drugs. And I know there's stories in the NFL of they're being bags of greenies that guys pop in there before half-time that keeps them focused, keeps them energized, amphetamines. For real is that, yeah, tell me, please, talk to a little. Yeah, we are drug testing. That was something that came with the CDL when we started franchising a couple years

ago. Before that, it was kind of the Wild Wild West and you could do what you want. And it was like a tough, it was just, there was like large influx of money, you know millions and millions of dollars, the league's drug policy and just franchising in general really crack down and now there's, it ties for everything under the sun. And when you say CDL we're talking about the call of duty league. Okay now what are your drug tested for? What are the prohibited substances? Everything under the sun? So no weed. I mean the big one is the the the the the the the the the drug. the drug. the the drug. the drug. the the drug. the the drug. the the the drug. the the the the the they. the they. the the the drug. the the the the the the the drug. the they. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the drug drug drug drug drug drug the drug the drug the drug the drug. the drug. the drug. the drug. the drug. the drug. the drug. the drug. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the I mean the big one's cocaine heroin, I'm sure crack is frowned upon. There's none of that. You could have a legal prescription for Adderall.

Yeah, so there's things called T-U-E's. I think it's therapeutic use exemption is the acronym. There are people in the league, I have friends of mine that can voucher for this as well. When you have ADHD, it is very hard to actually just function as a person without Adderall or whatever you're on because you need to come back to zero. It's not or come back to 100 or whatever it may be. It's not like you're taking it to be better, it's taking it to be like a neutral. So there areto go through the process to be like, look, are you trying to do this because you need it or are you trying to do this to get a competitive edge? So, CDL does a phenomenal job on making sure that that line is correct and there's no one

pushing the boundary. Now, to that point after the break, I want to talk exactly about that, the mental the mental the mental, the mental, the mental, the mental, the mental, the mental, the mental, the mental, the mental, the mental, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, too, too, too, their, too, their, their, throwne, throwne, throwne, thiqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq, and thr, and thr, and thr, and thr, and thi, and thi, and thi, thi, thi, is thi, is thi, is thi, is thin, is thin, is thin, is thin, is thin, is thin, is thin, thin, thin, thin, thri, thria, thria, thin, thria, thria, thria, thria, throwneea, thin, th and knowing it's your fault that you sucked today and how do you unpack that and if you need to address that pharmaceutically what does the league do to help and just I just want to talk about the mental health implications of what your job because it seems stressful in any job that's stressful there is definitely appeal that could help you with it and I want to talk about that a little bit mo the scenes we'll be right the the th. th. th. the to be to be to be to be to be the to be the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. the thi. thi. the the thi. thi. thi. the the. the. the. the. to be the. to be the. thi. thi. thi. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. the. to to to to to toe. toe. te. te. tea. tea. tea. tea. toe. toe. toe. the. the. you with it, and I want to talk about that a little bit more after the break. This is beyond the scenes. We'll be right back. Sam, you know, we love talking about your practice schedule and everything that goes into

preparing. First off, like in hours, how long are you doing this? Like if football, yeah, if football is like nine to six with two of days and a break in the afternoon from a side. You want a full schedule breakdown. No, not a full schedule breakdown, but just from sun up to sundown, how long are you holding a video game controller? Between 10 to 13 hours, 14 hours. Shit, you crazy. A day? Yeah.

How many days a week? Do you get probably sounding off? Like six days at 13? Is that? And that's a me thing. That's not a, that's not the standard. There are, there's plus in minus obviously. But if you want to win, you got to put the hours in. Because if you're not going to do it, then someone as well. So I've been around the block, I've been playing for eight years at thi. to th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thin. thin. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. thi. thi. That's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's th. That's th. That's th. That's, th. That's th. That's th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. th. thi. the. the. the. the. that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's I understand what it takes to win and I've won a lot so it's a lot of a lot of trial and area throughout my career to to find the spot where I know that I'm putting in the work required to win and right now it's about that time. Are you playing call of duty or are you working on a specific exercise to improve a specific part of your game? So you guys ask, i th. th. It th. It th. It th. It th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's the th. It's th. It's thi the thi thi thi thi thi thi the thi thi the thi thi thi thi thi thi thi to to to thi thi thi thi the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thian thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thin thin thin thin thin to to to to to to to to try try try try to to to to to to to to to to to to thro to the you guys ask me if it's controller held the entire time and it's not? It's probably like eight hours of playing and then the rest is either Vod review on the

day, talking with coaches or my team to figure out, you know, plans or strategies for the next day. Strams or talking in general about practice and improvement, whether that be game planning for matches that are upcoming or if we're traveling, talking about our schedule and bracket and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, I mean, for the actual, the schedule throughout the day, we practice from 11 a.m. to give or take 6 p.m. There's two scrimm blocks per day with a break in the middle, to a scrimmag. Scrimages, yes, so we'll play against other teams. So, two of those a day, with a break in the middle, obviously, for lunch, and we'll talk about the game plan if we're doing things properly, if we're addressing the issues that we want to talk about for that day.

And then afterwards when you get home, I'll usually stream on to five hours per night, and I'm also playing cod during that time as well. So it's the overtime, essentially, that kind of pushes those hours really. Do you ever have fun? Do you ever just go, today, I would like? No, it's really fun. It's, you know, it's a cliche, but if you like your job, you know, you're not gonna work, you know, they........... they. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. the the the th. It's. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that's, th. th. that's, that's, that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. that you know, you got to train and then you study the other team strategies and you figure it out. Yeah, it's, I mean, it's video games man. It, at the end of the day, it is my job and it is how I make a living, but it is video games.

But it is how I make a living, but it is video games, th It can't not be fun. This is where I appreciate traditional sports in that you cannot play that many hours. You know, even in tennis, even at our, even at our most high training of two a days in college where it was two and a half in the morning, two in the afternoon. I mean, the last, the second half of that second workout is basically, you just feel the the the tha tha tha the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, that, tho, tho, tho, thi, that, tho, tho, th. th. tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, th.. that, that, that, that, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. You, th.. You, th. You, th. You, th. You, th. You, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, thin, th second half of that second workout is basically... You just feel horrible.

Well, it's just, it's counterproductive. You're just, you know, you're out of, yeah, you're out of energy. So chalk one up for the traditional sport that I didn't have to play tennis 12 hours of the today game. And then go home and the mental comes in for sure because it's mental burnout whereas in physical or traditional sports, obviously physical burnout. Okay, so then let's talk about the mental burnout of that. Have you ever been impacted by that? Like have you ever felt that level of just I'm spent? Yes, definitely have.

So when I was young, I went pro at 18 years old, but I was playing obviously long before then. I was just just just just just just just just just to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be the game. the game. the game. the the their. their. their. the their. the the the the their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. the the their. the the their. I'm, the the their. I'm, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their. their. their. their. their. their. the their. the the the the the the the theck. thefficient. thean. thean. thean. thean. thean. thean. thean. thean. the the the I was just excited to be playing the game. Mental health wasn't something that I was really focused on because I never had impacted me essentially. And up until I would say like two years ago was the first time where I had really noticed the decline and I didn't really take the proper steps beforehand and I didn't have like the warning signs of myself to have the self-awareness to stop that from happening. So I was on a different team a couple of years ago going through pretty rough stint in terms of like placings and just team performance overall and it got pretty dark I was contemplating like retirement I didn't know where my career was going to take me. I

I didn't know if I was even capable of playing anymore. So that's the self-doubt had definitely crept in and like I said since I didn't really have any prior experience with dealing with mental health issues, it kind of all hit me like a truck. And it's definitely something that I had to navigate being an adult and trying to figure out how to just get out of that headspace. That's where Michael, when you mentioned the team. team, team, th. th-in, th-in, th-in, th-in, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to to to to to to to thi, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to thi, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, their, their, thi, when you mentioned the team liquid thing, like the mental performance coaches come in. We had one that was phenomenal with 100 thieves or LA thieves or. So the team understands that and they've made space for that within their facilities for you all to have that, the same as a chef, the same as a masseuse. So we have... And that's new. And that's new. And that's new that's new that's new that's new that's new that's new, and that's new, and the same, that's new, and the same, the same, the same, that's new. the same, that's new. the same. the same. that's new. that's new. And that's new. And that's new. And that's new. that's new. And that's new. And that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's. that's. And that's. And that's. And that's. And that's. And that's. And that's. And that's. And that's new. And that's new. And that's. And that's. And that's. And that's. And that's. And the. And the. And the. And the. And the. And the. And the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the same. And the the the that's new. And one thing, and Sam, please talk more about this, it's always hard as an athlete to know, am I mentally ill? Or do I just keep losing and losing sucks?

You know what I mean? Like, it hurts to lose. You take it personally, you work so hard and you're losing, it's like a slump is different than like I'm depressed. But there are some crossover. So how did you definitely is? I mean, it's nuts. It's, I think the only way to really differentiate between two is how much work that you're putting in. I mean, if you are doing the bare minimum you're slotting by and you're losing,

then you can really self-refer to be like, look, I'm not doing what I could be doing right now. Someone should have my job. That isn't me. Whereas on the opposite of the spectrum, if you're putting in 10 to 12 hours a day, if you're watching VOT, if you're doing everything you possibly can to get better and you're still losing, you need to have the mental acuity be like, look, I'm doing everything I'm putting 100% percent into what I'm doing. to to... to, to, to, to, to, to, to, they, they, to, they, their, their, their, their, their, their, to, their, to, to, their, to, their, to be their, their, their, their, their, their, if you're putting, if you're putting, if you're putting, if you're putting, if you're putting, if you're putting, if you're their, if their, if their, if their, if their, if their, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, i i...., their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, tape, together, together, together, together, they. together, they. theymy. together, their. their. their, their, together, thing that you can take away. Maybe your team isn't great. Maybe then you can look outside and not pass blame, but you can understand that you are doing whatever you possibly can in that situation. And that was something I had to learn because when I was doing poorly, I really didn't understand that. So I wasn't doing everything that I could have been doing at the time. And once I started to feel a lot better because it's like, look, even if th, th, th, th, th, th, th, that, that, that, that, that, that, that that that that that that that that that that that thi, that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's, that's, that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's th. thi. that's thi. that's thi. thrue. thrown. thrown. thrown. thrown, thate. thrown. thrue. thate. that's thrown. that's that's thate. that's that better because it's like, look, even if the results aren't there, I know that I'm putting my best foot forward. So there's definitely a crossover, like you mentioned. It's just having to navigate that crossover is very, very hard to do.

Can you go on injured reserve for my mind ain't right? Like how does it, when you're talking about this is a team-based sport and you can be replaced by somebody. I don't know how your JV squad or your minor league or how you get called up from the G-League goes in that world, but if somebody replaces you and they do better than you, you ain't getting your job back. So, that is very true. What is the pressure of choosing to endure mental health struggles instead of just literally taking a break and and unplugging from everything? So up until a couple of years ago, it was very taboo to do that. I mean, mental health in general wasn't really looked upon until a couple of years ago as a serious topic.

And call duty held that same sentiment. There have been cases where people have said, look, I'm burnt. I can't do this right now. I am just a burden to my team essentially. That has happened over the last couple of seasons in multiple different cases. And to answer your question, there are substitutes on rosters that will step in for that player,

whether it be like, hey, I just need a week. I need X amount of time, it doesn't matter. And again, to your point, if they start performing very well, it feels pretty rough, but nine times out of ten, the player will either be traded the next season if that is something that ends up happening, or the player will just come back out right and be like, look, I feel a lot better, I'm in a much better mental state than I was prior. But yeah, mental health. So it's like quarterbacks in football, if you lose your jobs, you're to, to, to, to lose, to lose, to lose, their, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, that, that, that, thi, that, that, that, thi, thi, thi, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, th. th. that is something is something is something is something is something is something is something is something is something, or is something, or is, is something, is, is something, is, is, is something, is, is, is something, is, is, is like, is like, is like, is like, is like, is like, thi. And, thi. And, that, that, that, that, that they. that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that, you still have worse in the league. Like you're you're gonna have name value you're gonna be like look this guy was playing extremely well prior to his break and maybe his break made him feel ten times better so you still have name value when when that case happens that

also has happened to your point where the substitute will step in and perform well that's kind of how new players enter the league in general but it's a special. This is this this this this this this this this this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is the this is the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the te is tea tea tea tea tea they they. they. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the league in general. But it's just weird. This is pro sports. I mean, the stakes are high and there's real money. So it's not like a participation trophy for everyone. So it's like. You know, I mean, it sucks. It sucks.

But if someone steps in and does better than you, you got to really think about it. What are you going to pop off. Yeah, yeah. That's right. I see one of Sam's mental health strategies just ran into the room. That's right. Because everybody who competes or performs at a high level needs something that loves it unconditional. That's right. Oh, a cameo. Are we dog came? Oh, okay. Dog came in. Trying to get those likes. Look, I can bomb all day. I can bomb all day at a comedy club, but as soon as I come home, this little idiot licks me and tells me I'm funny. That's all I need. Oh, here the door open.

Here, the door open. But yes, to your point, it definitely helps. No, I have not, which is strange because I am from somewhere that loves hunting in the dirty South. So, yeah, no, I have not. Sam, across all leagues, now you play at an optimum level in your craft. At some of the lower level leagues, have you seen an increase in the level of support that e-sports leagues are providing to the players with regards to mental health. Like I understand the care that you got. So it would be like the G-League and the NBA for example. Yeah, yeah, or double-A

baseball and things like that. Yeah, I think it's just a rising tide lifts all ships kind of situation once the league franchised and we got that huge huge influx of money like I mentioned thennananananananananananananana. th. th. their th. th. th. th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. thia. thia. thia. thia. to to to to to to to to to to to be the the to to to to to bea. to bea. to bea. to bea. to bea. to bea. to bea. to bea. to be like, to be like, to be. to be. I is is is is is to be. I is. I is. I is. I is. I is. I is. I is. I is. I is. I is. I is to be. I is to be. I is the the the the the the thae. thae. thae. than. than. than. than. I'm togea. I'm toge. I'm toge. I'm toge. I'm thae. I kind of helped everyone. I know that there was a large structure put in place for, we call it challengers, that's like the, that's our, our thing. So when we're talking about the Challenger League, there is a lot more structure than there used to be. I mentioned the Wild Wild West a little tho' that was very much like that. But now there's there's a lot of different organizations. There are professional teams that have Academy rosters or Challengers rosters that are directly linked to the CDL teams. There are separate entities in their own that just. Bro that's British Premier League soccer shit where we

draft you at 14 and you are part of our organization. Exactly. That is exactly correct. Wow. I understand when I watch the NFL how they make money. How are these, how are they making money? Like why would they invest? It's not broadcast yet. There's a little bit of broadcast, but like, how are, where is the money coming in for E-spor. Is it the sale of the game? So there's a couple different avenues. The main one obviously is advertising and selling sponsorships as as you do in general. For the individual such as myself, there are you know brand deals I have an agent similar to how an NFL would do it. You know I can't go on a commercial with with State Farm and Patrick Myhomes but I can do so one-off so you know of something for like Herman Miller or just brands in thna. their their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I's, th. I's, th. I's, th. I'm, th. I'm, th. I'm, thi. I'm, th. I'm, th. I'm, th. I'm, th. I'm, th. I'm, th. I's, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. th. thi. thi. thi. to to the the to to the to to the to to the to to the to theeee. the. the. just, you know, brands in general that would want to work with you.

They're streaming on Twitch. There's a lot of revenue there. You can do YouTube. So it's just content as an individual. On the individual level is probably the number one as well as your salary, which I'll get into. On the league level, to basically insanely rich people that like to do e-sports or have an interest in it. So I used to play for the Seattle Surge.

They're partner with the Canucks. I currently play for the LA Thieves, which is a branch of 100 Thieves. They are wanted like a D. Triple A. E. Sports organization. They had a series a investment when they first started their company invested by Drake. You said like Rick Fox and Echo Fox, there are multiple different cases over e-sports where people just have an interest and happen to have a lot of money. And so I mean, it's never a bad thing. You know, I'm salaried and it provides my living and there's a huge structure. I have insurance. It's a lot of different things. But with that celebrity involvement, that has not made it mainstream or uncool in any way? I think it's I think it's the exact opposite. I think that, funnily enough, to draw a comparison.

There you go. So to talk about the celebrity thing just for a second. I think the pandemic the pandemic the pandemic to move to move to move to move to move to move to move to move to move to to move to to to to to to the the to the to the the to make. the the to make. the the to make. to make. to make. to talk about the celebrity thing just for a second, I think the pandemic really moved video games into the spotlight. I think beforehand it was pretty taboo and it was nerdy to just put it blatantly if you played video games. And I think the pandemic with everyone being inside kind of tied everyone together like, look I can't go out. I don't have anything to do. Let's all hop on War Zone and hang out. So I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I the th. th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. to to to th. th. th. to to th. to th. to to to to th. the thi thi to to to to th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to toeeean. toean. toean. toean. toean. toean. toean. thean. the. the. the. have anything to do. Let's all hop on War Zone and hang out. So I think it brought celebrities into the limelight. You look at like Kyler Murray, he just has memes around him

that he plays call duty on his Microsoft Edge when he's on the field. You know, Drake, like I said, is a series of investors, the the thieves. There's a bunch of different examples. I thinks. Post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post post. He loves Apex and was on complexity. So I've met a lot of these guys. I've met celebrities strictly because I played video games.

And these are things that I never would have been able to do otherwise. And it's kind of cool because it's an icebreaker. You can go up and you can talk shit to them. You can do, it humanizes them. Because when you see these people, I wouldn't even know what to say, but it gives you the opportunity to be able to speak freely and not be as nervous. And obviously that's just an extremely privileged standpoint because I can talk to these people, but. Because that's always my thing.

I just want to make sure that I think it's cooler if they're legitimate fans and have some level of emotional investment in what's happening versus versus this and I am here to check on my like yeah like almost earnest in the way that like Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElaney bought that soccer team over in England but they're legit there and running the ticket like they are invested in care versus just somebody yeah this is my liquor line what the fuck do you know about liquor but you yeah tequila tequila did you go the tequila plant bitch my tequila. Did you go down there and check on your tequila plants, bitch? Did you? You probably did. After the break, Costa, I want to talk to you about your experience going to one of these tournaments, what it was like. We need to talk about

the salary, Sam. I don't want to pocket watch you, but I want to know kind of okay. Give us the median. And I want to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to the the the the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, I I I I I I I I I I I I I I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tape, Ia, I'm, I'm, I'm probably, I'm probably, I'm probably, I'm probably, I'm probably, probably, I'm probably, I'm probably, they.a, theypockea, I'm probably, I'm the watching. Yeah, just... Well, give us the median. We don't need your number, but give us the median. And I want to talk a little bit about women representation within your sport as well. This is Beyond the Scenes. We'll be right back. Beyond the scenes. We're round and third and headed for home, talking e-sports. Now, Michael Costa, you went you you went you went you went you went you went, you went, you went, you went, you went, you went, you went, you went, you went, you went, you went, you went, you went, you went, you went, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the the the the the th. the. the. thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, too.e.e. the. too. the. the. the. the the. the went to one of these e-sport events. Now, I'll give you my scope of knowledge. We have the Wiz with Fred Savage.

Yep. Where he went to play Super Mario 3. That's right. Holy shit. Before it came out, the whole movie was basically a commercial for Mario 3. Yeah, it got my ass. And then I also have the last Starfighter where a dude was so good at a video game that an alien from space came down and said, can you help free our press people with your video game skills? That's my spectrum of knowledge of being good

at video games and being invited to do it at a pinnacle. I don't even know the second reference. That's a cult hit, bro. Those are some references, let me tell you. Those are some tier one. Deep cuts. I'm 44 years old. I'm old. So when you step into the Barclays, Costa, like just the array of people, just the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the....... I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. this is it 14 the 40 is it just young? Yeah,

that's a good question. Well you know my my previous knowledge of this was that documentary the King of Kong. I don't have you ever saw that about the competitive Donkey Kong and I remember putting that maybe in the DVD player saying what is this trash why did my brother make me watch this and and immediately am suckered into because it's about competition. It's about watching people compete and at their highest level.

So I love that. So Barkley Center, I definitely felt fish out of water. I definitely felt I was the tallest person there. There was 20,000 people there. I immediately was enviousiousiousiousiousiousiousiousiousiousiousiousiousiousiousiousiousiousiousiousiousiousiousiousiousiousiousious and jealous the the the the the thiiousousthere. There was 20,000 people there. I immediately was envious and jealous of the fandom, of the passion, of the enthusiasm, of the energy. Tennis, you clap like this. I maybe had two people at my matches.

I was watching Team Liquid compete in Counter Strike. And all the fans audience members they're wearing these bracelets and when one team would place the bomb on the the other team you know I'm gonna butcher the sport but when one bomb gets placed a clock starts ticking down and every time a second goes off, everyone in the stadiums, bracelet pulses, 20,000 pulsing bracelets. So then as the bomb gets closer and closer to going off, these bracelets start glowing. to add to the terrifying notion that this bomb's going to explode soon.

So I'm like standing, it's so cool Roy. I'm standing there like, there's 20,000 bracelets going, brighter red, brighter red. And the other team's trying to like defend or find the bomb or whatever the shit. To diffuse it, yeah. It was like, oh shit, e-sports, you guys tied in the fans in the game. That was a badass move and that was when I was sold. Now, I didn't, I don't play and I didn't buy the jersey, but I immediately, I immediately got it and gave it some props because it was, it was a fun environment.

Sam, are people bedding on this shit? Because if this is like, wait, I'm sorry, what? You bet on draft kings? On draft kings, I can just go on a gambling app and just go, yeah, give me $40 on Sam to score to get 15 kills. Throw out some parlaz, you do whatever you want. Wow. That's a level of knowledge that I do not possess about this. So if it's 20,000 people you're streaming... It's the exact same thing. I'm sitting here preaching. It's

the same thing. So if it's being live streamed, there's revenue coming from that and eventually that has to trickle back to the players at a high level... At a high level... their pocket watch in time. At a high level could I make six figures doing this for a living? Yeah absolutely so when you're a member of the CDL whether that be substitute or on the starting roster your minimum salary is $50,000 you cannot make under $50,000 if you're a contracted CDL professional how long it's the season the season is nine months so basically a school year it's the exact same school year every year you got your time months. So basically a school year. It's the exact same school year.

That's your time off. So if you make your side hustles on Twitch and do other streams, you get your celebrity stuff. Okay, see. The high end you're making high six figures. High sixes. High sixes. Mid to high sixes on the extreme cases. Like the highest player in the league makes high six figures, I'm in the middle,

I'm not gonna say where. So just so people who aren't good with their figures, six figures is $100,000. So you're saying mid to high, you can make half a million. Can make half a million to about 500,000. Damn. It's like the majority of the leader probably say 80%. That's awesome. So when you when you look at the research, you know, with all of these different teams, at least the research on our side, there seems to be a lack of representation of women in e-sports. Have

you seen that number slowly growing over the span of your career? Talk about where representation is for women when you started versus where you see it going today? Because I would imagine there isn't a need about where representation is for women when you start it versus where you see it going today because I would imagine there isn't a need for a women's elite, like we're not going to get into muscle mass and size different, it's your thumb. Can you move your thumb as fast as they got. So it's funny you ask because I think the, it was either yesterday or the day before. There was the first women to qualify for the Challenger's elite, which is basically like their tournament

that is in the Challenger league. That was the first time in forever, and that was like two days ago, I think. So definitely, there's more women representation every year. It's building. And I think that's just across these sports as well. I that's, I that's, I th, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, th, th, th, th, th, th, was, was, thi, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, the, the, they.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a. the their.a.a. their. their. their. theirto call duty. Valorant has women's leagues. They have full-blown, I don't know what they call it in Valorant, but they have like Academy rosters, they have a full-blown league strictly for women. So I think that as the year goes on or as the year goes on or as the years go on, excuse me, I can't help thr. that tho, I tho, I thr. thr. thr. thr, I thr, I thr, I thr, I thr, I thr, I thr, I thr, I thr, I thrown, I thrown, I don't th, I don't, I don't tho, I don't th. I don't th. I don't they're, I don't, I don't, I don't, I they have, I they have, I they're, I they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they, I they they, I they they they, I don't they're, I don't thr. they're, I don't thr. thr. thrown, I don't know't know't know know, I don't know't know know know, I don't know know know know, I don't toda, I don't today, I don't thrown. they're they're they're they're to see. Specific to call of duty, I think we're lagging behind just a tad because it's not really something that I think women really gravitated towards.

I think Valoran is probably leading the space right now in terms of just e-sports as a whole, because I was watching that the other day, and no joke, and it was legitimately impressive because I am horrific. I can't play on keyboard mouse at all to save my life in any aspects. Thank God I have a controller to make my living on. But yeah, I think women are definitely trailblazing in the space right now for sure. Is there in terms of the fight for the, because I don't want to, I want to be very careful about not rolling the e-sports community into the gaming community as a whole, I feel like they're the two the game the game the game thian thian thian thian thian thian the the the the the the the the they're two different things. Very separate. You have professional gaming, which where there might be some degree of gender discrimination, and you're saying that there are leagues and that there are efforts being,

that there are efforts to make things more equitable for women. But on the gaming side, we're just talking to regular Joe Blow Game or in the basement, women are subjected to all types of harassment and troll and bullying and doxing. How much can the e-sports community do to try to speak out against that? It's kind of like the racism and soccer. Soccer's not racist but there's a lot of the fans that are talking crazy and them stands. So has the e-sports community been able to do anything, I guess to speak out about that or try to stop and curtail that?

I think that transcends the e-sports community. I think that becomes just like a humanity thing and trying to be a good person in general. But to your point, absolutely. I think just trying to be you could, you probably agree that, you know, there are people that when you talk about video games, they're just people that are assholes and I think that's in all walks of life. Unfortunately, I think that you're absolutely right, Roy, you know, the sexism and stuff like that. It definitely is not great for the space. Not even just that. th, th, th, th, to th, to th, to th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, that, that, that, that, that, their, when their, when you're their, when you're their, when their, when you're their, when you're their, when you their, when you their, when you their, when you their their, when you're their, when you're their, when you their, when you thi, when you thi, when you thi, when you thi. When thi. When thi. When, when that, when that, when that, when that, when you that, when you, when you're their, when you're their, when you're their, their, their, ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. their, when you're their, when you're their, when you're their, when you're their, when's something that we need to be a lot more progressive one. You know, I do my best to spread as much positivity in my stream as I can, and I'm very welcoming to anyone, but you're definitely not wrong in there. And I think that when you have women transcending in e-sports and becoming, you know,

like I said, with the valorant thing or her name is Kelsey in call duty. When you have th you have th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the, the, the, the. the. throw, throw, thr-a, the. tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm th. I's, I's, I's, I's, I's th. I's th. I's th. I's th. I's th. I's th. I's th. I's th. I's th. I's thr. I'm thr. I'm thr. I'm thr. I'm thr. I'm to thrownean. I'm toean. I'm toean. t togean. toge. I'm thr. I'm very thr. I'm thr making headway in the space, I think that sets an example because these women could kick your ass in the video game that you're talking shit about. So I think that is something that, you know, hopefully down the line in a couple of years or hopefully sooner, progression is made, but I mean, that's just a new sports thing. There's something beautiful as we get more women playing competitive

e-sports in particular Call of Duty. There's something beautiful about men trying to kill each other in a video game. It's very real. I mean like that is, right now it's mostly men trying to kill each other but it's adds such a beautiful complexity when it's both genders both working together and also working against each other. And that was your takeaway from this whole segment? Because it felt casual, I like it. No, but I mean you talked about it a little bit at the top Costa, but you know as a casual coming into this and having covered it, how did it change your view of just, you know, even just the idea that the idea that, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you know, you know, you, you know, you, you, you, you know, you know, you, you know, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, the, the, the, the, the, did it change your view of just, you know, even just the idea that video games make people crazy. Right, like in theory, right?

Like they go, oh, video games make people violent. But then you have... Love that tag, that's such a great. Yeah, I know, it's such a hack take. You have an arena full of people watching violence and people doing violence. How are they, why aren't they all fighting? Well, you know, I, I just was reminded and humbled that what I think is one way is what I think, but it's so important to step out of your comfort zone because I 100% would be the dad that would say get off the video games

go outside get up the video games go outside but then you walk into the Barclay Center and 20,000 twenty thousand tickets were sold and I just say this is another healthy outlet I know that what and you know they're doing a violent game or whatever, but it was, it was really fun to see the team, there was a team aspect, there was a coach, they were learning lessons, there was people that were disappointed, there was people that had achieved that day. It was preparing them for all facets of life. That's cool.

So just to interject really quick. That was your first and only only only the best the best that's right, that's right, that's right, that's the first tour. You probably picked the best thing that you could have possibly done to have your, to do your, for your first time. Yeah, well, that's probably why we picked it too. Counterstrike that's kind of one on its own. I thage th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I thin, I thin, I thin, I thin, I thin, I thin, I thin thin thi, I thi, I thi. I thin thi thi. thi. thio-s probably probably thi thi thi thi thi thi thi probably probably probably probably thi thi probably probably thi probably thi, thi, thi probably thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi thiaaaaaaaaaaaaaa' probably thia' probably thia thia thi thi thi probably probably probably probably thi thi thi th joke, but League of Legends is also very good. Counter-Strike has such passion behind it. It transcends the game as well. It goes to nationality, the European counterstrike, you know, with Team Liquid, it was Brazilian counter-strike. There are, it's, we could compare it to soccer. I mean, there's legitimate fandom when it comes to nationalities within counter-strike, and that's why it's so incredible. Like, when their their their their their their their their thiii. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's their their their their their their their their the game the game the game the game the game the game their their their their their their their their their their their their their their thi. It goes goes goes goes goes goes goes goes is is is thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thr. It's tri. It's tri. It's trioe. It's trioooe. It's tria. tria. tria. tria. It's tria. It goes thae. It losing their minds. You know, years and years ago, Cloud 9 was doing incredible. They want a major with Shroud. So, Counter-Strike is, I think, the extreme example of fandom in sports, and League of Legends is also incredible as well.

Cool. Well, Sam, I can't thank you enough for coming on. Costa, thank you as well for contributing to this wonderful, wonderful conversation. Hope we converted Costa while we were here, Roy. I hope we did. Yeah, let's baby steps. Let's put them on a Super Nintendo. Let's go to six buttons. He's not ready for left L2, R2.

He's not. Not quite the keyboard mouse yet. That's all the time we have for today, but hopefully by now we're taking you beyond the scenes. See you next week. Listen to the Daily Show Beyond the Scenes on Apple Podcast, the IHart Radio App or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Explore more shows from the Daily Show podcast universe by searching The Daily Show, wherever you get your podcasts. Watch the Daily Show weeknights at 11, 10 Central on Comedy Central,

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